This will be one of the first things that make me skeptical with what they are doing, for me I tend to think of the appearance tab in terms of roleplaying and when it comes to roleplayers we don't always use the appearance tab just because we hate the look of those huge shoulder pads you get in pvp.
That's what I feel like my problem with this topic is, it seems to keep getting on "whether you can mod early gear at later levels" and this seems to me to be such a small part of what people actually use an appearance tab for.
Ok I get that "mods" will allow me to add little buttons,straps,zippers etc but the question I have is will I be able to walk around in what is effectively a "tux" while wearing the same thing as the guy walking next to me in army fatigues.
Ok I get that "mods" will allow me to add little buttons,straps,zippers etc but the question I have is will I be able to walk around in what is effectively a "tux" while wearing the same thing as the guy walking next to me in army fatigues.
I don't know if you meant this figuratively or literally, but they stated that the mods could make lower level gear as effective as level cap gear. How that works out in the end ingame, we'll have to see.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ok I get that "mods" will allow me to add little buttons,straps,zippers etc but the question I have is will I be able to walk around in what is effectively a "tux" while wearing the same thing as the guy walking next to me in army fatigues.
I don't know if you meant this figuratively or literally, but they stated that the mods could make lower level gear as effective as level cap gear. How that works out in the end ingame, we'll have to see.
I'm not talking about the effect just the appearance, this is what I was eluding to earlier in the post. The problem I have is the appearance tab has absolutely nothing to do with function it's all about appearance and that's all we keep hearing about this system "function".
It wouldn't bother me that modding low level gear to high levels won't be as powerful as the end game gear but it would bother me if what they are saying is we will have ten or so armors to chose from and can further modify them with all types of zippers and pouches etc. this to me would in no way address the issues that bring about the desire for appearance tabs.
There is also a color matching system in place that they have already told us about. Supposedly you can choose a color from your main chest piece and it will match that to the rest of your attire. This was you will not end up with pink pants, blue armor, and a yellow helmet.
I've seen a demonstration of this in action, it's pretty cool and really solves the WoW "looking like a clown" problem.
I'm confident that the armour modification system Bioware has in place is something neat and unique. I imagine that they won't put an appearance tab into the game simply because they don't need one, and when we see the system they have in action we'll all be like "ohhhh... That's why we don't need appearance tabs..."
...clearly illustrates that people aren’t interested in a game set in Episode II: Attack of the Clones.
Precisely. Bioware seems to be running some "slight-of-hand" maneuver with this whole being able to "modify" the appearance of armor business, while not actually incorporating it into an mmorpg.
It doesn't exist, and I will continue to hold to that opinion until they show how it exists in a robust fashion.
So unitl then, here we have a reportedly heavily instanced and sharded game that provides the appearance that it plays like "Mass Effect", with the dialog choices that take you to the same end-result, and as a lobby-system single-player RPG with a bolt-on MOBA map, and a supposed mmorpg that is clearly without any robust dye system or crafting/tailoring system to enable players to personalize one's Avatar, to differentiate one's Avatar from being a carbon-copy of the guy standing next to him, in a virtual world.
We're still repeating the "heavily instanced" lie that has been disproven again and again? Come on, you can do much better than that.
I can go back to my first MMO Asheron's Call and it has an appearance system. Now WOW and everything in between has one as well. Get with the program Bioware.
I can go back to my first MMO Asheron's Call and it has an appearance system. Now WOW and everything in between has one as well. Get with the program Bioware.
This give you just as much custimization as an apperance tab and it give crafters something to craft and a reason to make lower level items.
People don't realize how awesome dye systems are until they've played a game with one. Rift's dye system made some very generic armor much more interesting and gave players a somewhat more unque look.
I realize that you can't have everything, but a dye system and a multi-spec system like Rifts seem like a natural progression of the genre. A lot of the design decisions in terms of player class and customization remind me of 2004.
I love sotry as much as the next person, but the gameplay has to evolve and it doesn't seem like Bioware is on top of that aspect, which is really concerning. Rift was fun, but got very old afte 2 months. I'm afraid TOR is going to be the same.
Just noticed something in this video with respect to modding gear. The moddable gear doesn't have a level. It's level is determined by the level of mods you put into it. So, with that it looks like if you find a piece of moddable gear you like you can up it's effective level by acquiring mod pieces that are of your level.
While it is dissapointing that this feature wasn't included in the design, I commend Bioware for not "gold-plating" their initial release and caving on something that can easily be added at a later stage without impacting current testing and release planning.
Being in the software development industry myself, it is very difficult to make that decision when popular opinion of one's users calls for functionality and the development/testing schedule just cannot accomodate it without adding risk to the planned deliverable.
On the plus side it their system truely works it will be amazing. By that i mean modable gear can be made 100% as good as the best gear out their for a similiar / equal ammount of effort to acquire said gear.
However if at any stage its not as good even by 1%, then its a waste of time and I would rather have a simple vanity tab.
I hope everyone is ready to look exactly the same. - but with different colored buttons and zippers.
The SWTOR developers have no idea what they're doing in terms of individualism. If you're a player who want a unique identity, then this game is probably not for you.
If the appearance system that Bioware works does work as intended HIGHPLAINS then you could have the looks from both of those pictures (well that depends on if the armor set is in game) but it was linked earlier that modable gear does not have levels independantly, but the level is depicted by the mods in place.
To explain this better here is how something works (we will assume for this explaination that there is only 1 mod in the gear at a time)
You have a cloak with level 10 mod in it, thus to be able to wear it you need to be level 10. This is how the gear is when it dropped from the mob.
You head to a crafting station and pop the mod out and it loses it's level requirement or most likely drops down to level 1.
You then pop a level 50 mod into the equipment
Now that same cloak requires a level of 50 to wear.
Which means that even though it still requires you to be level 50 to wear that piece, it still has the same look, which means you now have a pretty simple cloak that looks like it's from a level 10 area that works like a level 50 piece of gear, it's basically the appearance tab mashed into the equipment tab with a bunch more customability in how your armor works. What i mean by this is if it works to the fullest extent you could customize rather greatly how your armor works. For example if you really wanted all your lightsaber to work towards attack and there were 3 moddable slots you could slot all 3 with attack type items
Let me lay out here how i think it works from the standpoint of kotor
original set up
Lightsaber
Required level 10
Handle: defense +5 mod level 10 Lens: empty
Crystal: blue +5 to defense mod level 10
Now with this it's a level 10 item as you can see the mods require it to be level 10.
Now lets pop the mods out and see how it works
Lightsaber
Required level 1
Handle: empty Lens: empty
Crystal: Empty
Now as you can see the level has dropped to the lowest level
lets pop our really good level mods into it
Lightsaber
Required level 50
Handle: Attack +300 mod level 50 Lens: +30% attack power mod level 50
Crystal: Red Burning effect +50 burns per hit mod level 50
Now from my current understanding you could pop each one of these out and have a different effect on the weapon like taking out the burning effect of the item and add something that heals you for longevity if you wanted.
So the mods at least on the modable gear depict the level rather then the gear or level of the monster, so it appears entirely possible that you could have gear that looks like something from a level 10 area be used in a level 50 area due ot the mods. This is assuming of course my understanding of it is how it works, so the above is a guess at best until i see it in game and understand it more fully.
Now they did mention that this works like this only in moddable gear which makes it sound like certain items aren't moddable, wether they are better then moddable gear i do not know.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I don't worry too much about this issue as we are dealing with a company famous for their attention to detail.
The lack of an appearance tab may simply be an effort to keep from giving players the options of breaking visual RP by being hideously gaudy.
I play CoX as well and while some players embraced their super- hero/villain-ness costume wise.
Some looked downright garish costume wise.
DCUO did some great work in regard to their appearance tab.. but it was a work based on alot of play tester feedback.
I, personally, am far more interested in gear I can work to get and keep for the remainder of the game without the gear losing relevance.
My first game experience was Asheron's Call though and have been disappointed ever since in regard to gear and weapons as compared to my Amuli armor and weapons in that game.
if the system works,with the mods that is...then it will be a very nice change and a progression to the current appearance tab!if not...then,they better add the appearance tab :P
also to the people that say "I want to know what gear the other person that will kill me bla bla bla"
am i the only one,that remember EVERY BAD ASS in all 6 movies NOT WEARING anything special?Darth vader aside,which was a suit for him to survive....every other person wore ROBES....Yoda THE MOST POWERFULL forse user jedi of his time ROBES...Palpatine THE EMPEROR AND PRIME VILAIN of star wars the movies ROBES...Qui gon jin which was a powerfull jedi ROBES...Darth maul a bad ass sith ROBES(and some horny...horns :P )Mace Windu that touch mother-f@cker was wearing ROBES and even thought he was angry because he was "Tired of those mother-f@cking siths on that mother-f@cking planet"he still was wearing ROBES
where exactly in star wars you see bad ass characters wear shiny things?THIS IS SCI-FI shiny armors and looks are not meant for sci-fi unless you are on a party or something and must dress formal
as for the sith of the comics and stuff like that...they were wearing unique things not 1 was look alike with another(meaning for the ones wearing something extravaganze)the rest had the standar red cool-guy armors :P
Here are the main problems I have with the system:
In LoTRO I can have multiple outfits I use to help with immersion depending on where I am and what I am doing. This system simply doesn't allow that.
Here's a clear example maybe people can understand - If I go to Hoth I want my character wearing cold-weather gear and I don't want to have to pop all my Mods out and put them back in my "normal" gear when I leave.
I also don't want to have to carry around or store multiple sets of actual gear just for appearance and have to spend time and credits every time I want to change my character's appearance.
Cosmetic tabs with Wardrobe Storage is just so much more player-friendly than this system.
Bioware has most certainly NOT assuaged my concerns about this. I still believe that they are failing us in this hotly demanded feature. It's way past time for them to take a step back and re-address the issue. We don't care about modifying existing armor. We expect to be able to run the gear grind at whatever the level cap is... we just want to LOOK like what we want.
I have been a loyal Bioware believer through all the flaming that happens on this site.
This is the first article that has made me feel really concerned about this game. If the topic has 20,000+ posts, and Bioware devs are refusing to budge, I am concerned on what else they refuse to budge on.
This is a minor thing that does not hurt the integrity of their game. It doesn't hurt game mechanics. It just allows players to look the way they want to.
Bioware should be more concerned about making a game players want to play, instead of resisting the community on minor details like a wardrobe tab.
While it is dissapointing that this feature wasn't included in the design, I commend Bioware for not "gold-plating" their initial release and caving on something that can easily be added at a later stage without impacting current testing and release planning.
Being in the software development industry myself, it is very difficult to make that decision when popular opinion of one's users calls for functionality and the development/testing schedule just cannot accomodate it without adding risk to the planned deliverable.
I hadn't considered this. If that is their true reason for not putting it in, and they aren't just resisting for some ideology, then I retract my previous post.
If it is for some ideology, then I am still upset with Bioware
I have been a loyal Bioware believer through all the flaming that happens on this site.
This is the first article that has made me feel really concerned about this game. If the topic has 20,000+ posts, and Bioware devs are refusing to budge, I am concerned on what else they refuse to budge on.
This is a minor thing that does not hurt the integrity of their game. It doesn't hurt game mechanics. It just allows players to look the way they want to.
Bioware should be more concerned about making a game players want to play, instead of resisting the community on minor details like a wardrobe tab.
What I think people are failing to relise is that this is an apperiance tab.
You can take that level 5 chest peice and mod it to be viable at end game. That is better then an apperance tab because it makes low level items and mod makers a huge part of the economy.
Comments
Let's remember to stay on topic.
This will be one of the first things that make me skeptical with what they are doing, for me I tend to think of the appearance tab in terms of roleplaying and when it comes to roleplayers we don't always use the appearance tab just because we hate the look of those huge shoulder pads you get in pvp.
That's what I feel like my problem with this topic is, it seems to keep getting on "whether you can mod early gear at later levels" and this seems to me to be such a small part of what people actually use an appearance tab for.
Ok I get that "mods" will allow me to add little buttons,straps,zippers etc but the question I have is will I be able to walk around in what is effectively a "tux" while wearing the same thing as the guy walking next to me in army fatigues.
I don't know if you meant this figuratively or literally, but they stated that the mods could make lower level gear as effective as level cap gear. How that works out in the end ingame, we'll have to see.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm not talking about the effect just the appearance, this is what I was eluding to earlier in the post. The problem I have is the appearance tab has absolutely nothing to do with function it's all about appearance and that's all we keep hearing about this system "function".
It wouldn't bother me that modding low level gear to high levels won't be as powerful as the end game gear but it would bother me if what they are saying is we will have ten or so armors to chose from and can further modify them with all types of zippers and pouches etc. this to me would in no way address the issues that bring about the desire for appearance tabs.
I've seen a demonstration of this in action, it's pretty cool and really solves the WoW "looking like a clown" problem.
I'm confident that the armour modification system Bioware has in place is something neat and unique. I imagine that they won't put an appearance tab into the game simply because they don't need one, and when we see the system they have in action we'll all be like "ohhhh... That's why we don't need appearance tabs..."
We're still repeating the "heavily instanced" lie that has been disproven again and again? Come on, you can do much better than that.
I can go back to my first MMO Asheron's Call and it has an appearance system. Now WOW and everything in between has one as well. Get with the program Bioware.
This give you just as much custimization as an apperance tab and it give crafters something to craft and a reason to make lower level items.
Modifying Armor>Apperance Tab.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
People don't realize how awesome dye systems are until they've played a game with one. Rift's dye system made some very generic armor much more interesting and gave players a somewhat more unque look.
I realize that you can't have everything, but a dye system and a multi-spec system like Rifts seem like a natural progression of the genre. A lot of the design decisions in terms of player class and customization remind me of 2004.
I love sotry as much as the next person, but the gameplay has to evolve and it doesn't seem like Bioware is on top of that aspect, which is really concerning. Rift was fun, but got very old afte 2 months. I'm afraid TOR is going to be the same.
If you don't worry about it, it's not a problem.
Just noticed something in this video with respect to modding gear. The moddable gear doesn't have a level. It's level is determined by the level of mods you put into it. So, with that it looks like if you find a piece of moddable gear you like you can up it's effective level by acquiring mod pieces that are of your level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlh3vcKdHsA&feature=player_detailpage#t=3204s
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
While it is dissapointing that this feature wasn't included in the design, I commend Bioware for not "gold-plating" their initial release and caving on something that can easily be added at a later stage without impacting current testing and release planning.
Being in the software development industry myself, it is very difficult to make that decision when popular opinion of one's users calls for functionality and the development/testing schedule just cannot accomodate it without adding risk to the planned deliverable.
I don't get it. How about this;
Try the game first, then make a decision?
Why cry about something that's missing if you haven't yet tested their alternative?
On the plus side it their system truely works it will be amazing. By that i mean modable gear can be made 100% as good as the best gear out their for a similiar / equal ammount of effort to acquire said gear.
However if at any stage its not as good even by 1%, then its a waste of time and I would rather have a simple vanity tab.
I hope everyone is ready to look exactly the same. - but with different colored buttons and zippers.
The SWTOR developers have no idea what they're doing in terms of individualism. If you're a player who want a unique identity, then this game is probably not for you.
I am for appearance tabs, reasons..
1. This is a MMO - Role Playing Game
2. Uniqueness and also builds character in the community to fulfill the RPG (for some, they immerse better within their character role).
Some people get into costume when going to these Star Wars Conventions.
Not everyone looks the same, unless your going for that iconic look. (Storm Troopers, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Jedi, and Boba Fette).
So I don't see why it wouldn't be in SWTOR the MMORPG.
If the appearance system that Bioware works does work as intended HIGHPLAINS then you could have the looks from both of those pictures (well that depends on if the armor set is in game) but it was linked earlier that modable gear does not have levels independantly, but the level is depicted by the mods in place.
To explain this better here is how something works (we will assume for this explaination that there is only 1 mod in the gear at a time)
You have a cloak with level 10 mod in it, thus to be able to wear it you need to be level 10. This is how the gear is when it dropped from the mob.
You head to a crafting station and pop the mod out and it loses it's level requirement or most likely drops down to level 1.
You then pop a level 50 mod into the equipment
Now that same cloak requires a level of 50 to wear.
Which means that even though it still requires you to be level 50 to wear that piece, it still has the same look, which means you now have a pretty simple cloak that looks like it's from a level 10 area that works like a level 50 piece of gear, it's basically the appearance tab mashed into the equipment tab with a bunch more customability in how your armor works. What i mean by this is if it works to the fullest extent you could customize rather greatly how your armor works. For example if you really wanted all your lightsaber to work towards attack and there were 3 moddable slots you could slot all 3 with attack type items
Let me lay out here how i think it works from the standpoint of kotor
original set up
Lightsaber
Required level 10
Handle: defense +5 mod level 10 Lens: empty
Crystal: blue +5 to defense mod level 10
Now with this it's a level 10 item as you can see the mods require it to be level 10.
Now lets pop the mods out and see how it works
Lightsaber
Required level 1
Handle: empty Lens: empty
Crystal: Empty
Now as you can see the level has dropped to the lowest level
lets pop our really good level mods into it
Lightsaber
Required level 50
Handle: Attack +300 mod level 50 Lens: +30% attack power mod level 50
Crystal: Red Burning effect +50 burns per hit mod level 50
Now from my current understanding you could pop each one of these out and have a different effect on the weapon like taking out the burning effect of the item and add something that heals you for longevity if you wanted.
So the mods at least on the modable gear depict the level rather then the gear or level of the monster, so it appears entirely possible that you could have gear that looks like something from a level 10 area be used in a level 50 area due ot the mods. This is assuming of course my understanding of it is how it works, so the above is a guess at best until i see it in game and understand it more fully.
Now they did mention that this works like this only in moddable gear which makes it sound like certain items aren't moddable, wether they are better then moddable gear i do not know.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I don't worry too much about this issue as we are dealing with a company famous for their attention to detail.
The lack of an appearance tab may simply be an effort to keep from giving players the options of breaking visual RP by being hideously gaudy.
I play CoX as well and while some players embraced their super- hero/villain-ness costume wise.
Some looked downright garish costume wise.
DCUO did some great work in regard to their appearance tab.. but it was a work based on alot of play tester feedback.
I, personally, am far more interested in gear I can work to get and keep for the remainder of the game without the gear losing relevance.
My first game experience was Asheron's Call though and have been disappointed ever since in regard to gear and weapons as compared to my Amuli armor and weapons in that game.
if the system works,with the mods that is...then it will be a very nice change and a progression to the current appearance tab!if not...then,they better add the appearance tab :P
also to the people that say "I want to know what gear the other person that will kill me bla bla bla"
am i the only one,that remember EVERY BAD ASS in all 6 movies NOT WEARING anything special?Darth vader aside,which was a suit for him to survive....every other person wore ROBES....Yoda THE MOST POWERFULL forse user jedi of his time ROBES...Palpatine THE EMPEROR AND PRIME VILAIN of star wars the movies ROBES...Qui gon jin which was a powerfull jedi ROBES...Darth maul a bad ass sith ROBES(and some horny...horns :P )Mace Windu that touch mother-f@cker was wearing ROBES and even thought he was angry because he was "Tired of those mother-f@cking siths on that mother-f@cking planet"he still was wearing ROBES
where exactly in star wars you see bad ass characters wear shiny things?THIS IS SCI-FI shiny armors and looks are not meant for sci-fi unless you are on a party or something and must dress formal
as for the sith of the comics and stuff like that...they were wearing unique things not 1 was look alike with another(meaning for the ones wearing something extravaganze)the rest had the standar red cool-guy armors :P
I think this system sounds just as lame as trying to call Raids now Operations.
Take a standard functioning idea and try to muck it up with miniscule bits of change and then call it innovative?
Its pathetic.
Where did they say it was innovative? And operations sound more in line with the Star Wars universe than raids.
In Bioware we trust!
Here are the main problems I have with the system:
In LoTRO I can have multiple outfits I use to help with immersion depending on where I am and what I am doing. This system simply doesn't allow that.
Here's a clear example maybe people can understand - If I go to Hoth I want my character wearing cold-weather gear and I don't want to have to pop all my Mods out and put them back in my "normal" gear when I leave.
I also don't want to have to carry around or store multiple sets of actual gear just for appearance and have to spend time and credits every time I want to change my character's appearance.
Cosmetic tabs with Wardrobe Storage is just so much more player-friendly than this system.
Bioware has most certainly NOT assuaged my concerns about this. I still believe that they are failing us in this hotly demanded feature. It's way past time for them to take a step back and re-address the issue. We don't care about modifying existing armor. We expect to be able to run the gear grind at whatever the level cap is... we just want to LOOK like what we want.
I have been a loyal Bioware believer through all the flaming that happens on this site.
This is the first article that has made me feel really concerned about this game. If the topic has 20,000+ posts, and Bioware devs are refusing to budge, I am concerned on what else they refuse to budge on.
This is a minor thing that does not hurt the integrity of their game. It doesn't hurt game mechanics. It just allows players to look the way they want to.
Bioware should be more concerned about making a game players want to play, instead of resisting the community on minor details like a wardrobe tab.
I hadn't considered this. If that is their true reason for not putting it in, and they aren't just resisting for some ideology, then I retract my previous post.
If it is for some ideology, then I am still upset with Bioware
What I think people are failing to relise is that this is an apperiance tab.
You can take that level 5 chest peice and mod it to be viable at end game. That is better then an apperance tab because it makes low level items and mod makers a huge part of the economy.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.