OT: it really takes more than what most people think it does to release online games across the oceans. Licenses, have to be met with local area's have to make sure you are following all the laws procedures for each and every local country they intend to release in etc etc.
This is Beta testing , not a free ride to check out a game you and many other people are wanting to play regardless of location, being excited about or even pre-ordering a game, does not give ANY customer a right to Beta test period.
back up to that whole topic of the US economy , Bioware/EA regardless of how you see them conducting this business of beta testing avaliablity of the game, will not nor will it ever fix the US economy or anything else economic wise past perhaps a few local jobs it might create or stimulate the local economy of an office location(s) it may have. that is just a silly arguement and as such that particular strawman should be torched imo. I mean really EA saves US Economy Through SWTOR . One will never see that headline ever /giggle
This whole EU>< USA thing is silly as well. I understand ones want to play a game but that should have no bearing on saying one country is better than any other etc, we are ALL gamers at heart regardless of our country of origin.
Actually as an EU citizen in England I am very grateful that I was allowed to partake in the 1 month marketing beta that just went by. And am very honoured that I was chosen.
@Beachcomber Taking the information from Ukforze, Rockstar Games is in your country. The Uk release of GTA 4 was in April, the US release was in December. Your argument is invalid.
Does wiki tell you that the US distributors were taking US pre-orders for GTA 4 in Feb?
My argument is valid
It wasn't wikipedia (too many LIES!) but no I did not know that. When was the UK able to preorder TOR?
Edit: If my information is correct, it was the same time as the US. Argument invalid again! Your move HAHA!
They aren't marginalizing anything. They are set up to test what they are set up to test. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
Second rate citizen? Hello, you aren't a citizen, lol! (see what I did there? :P ) Anyway, I doubt you'll find much sympathy from most of us Americans as contrary to what many of those outside the US think the vast majority of us can read and write and we do read what you guys say about us. While I don't think my country is perfect I don't think others have the ground to stand on to look down their noses at us. As someone else stated, if you're so much better, so much more advanced...make your own MMOs.
Oh, that and the few MMO gaming companies that are outside the US do the exact same to US gamers as well. WOrld of Tanks did it. Age of Conan did as well if I remember right. The Koei company from Japan only produces certain titles that are shipped west and have whole sections of their catalogue that are Japan only.
Wow Khal....
I remember being on the opposite side of the sandbox/SWG stuff as you many a times. Didnt care for your style too much, but not only have you redemed yourself to me(which I know you dont care), I might have some platonic- man-luv-crush going on for ya. HEH.
Seriously....I fully agree.
I have no doubts BW/EA wanna get in good with the EU crowd. Right now though they are trying to make sure things are running smoothly.
I also agree with the notion that everyone & their brother run their mouths off to us as a nation. As someone had stated, this is about the logistics of setting all this up....instead some folks wanna throw insults at us. As an American, I agree with the stance....dont like it, then make your own.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I suppose its not as bad as places like Phillipines and other countries who get screwed worse than Europe.
But still. This is nothing new. In reality I always thought Europe was a much easier market to focus on since our internet infrastructure is far superior to America/other countries apart from Asia. But oh well. Localisation problems. Sure. Call it what you want.
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
Bioware, the only company to create an MMO that causes an international incident.
While I can understand the dissapointment of the redzoners (I'm one too) and those in the EU that desperatly want into beta, and while I realize this web site is devoted to discussing MMOs, those of you who are seriously pissed off about this situation go and take a good look through the world news. There are many people out there in the big bad world with real problems. If not being able to directly buy a copy of SWTOR or get into the first round of beta are the worst things in your lives you can find to complain about, condsider yourselves goddamed lucky.
And if this little forum thread is all it takes for many of you to start flinging nationality based insults like a bunch of crap flinging monkeys, maybe EA would be wiser to keep the groups seperate, as it seems a large percentage of players on both sides are too immature to behave like civilized human beings.
Jeux Sans Frontières indeed.
Here we go.
Although I think that the core message in this quote will fly right over the head of a major part of mmorpg.com visitors and posters, considering the kind of stuff people already get agitated and in a fit about.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bioware has stated they cant do anything about when stores put out new content . so getting a game 2 days later then us isnt a bad thing. If u pre order u get in early with early acess and u wont even realize u are behind us by 2 days.
That said beta has been gone over and over by stephen reid and others. eu players are getting into main beta now and will get into eu testing on eu servers when they have them up and runningl
they have stated they will release in us and eu as close as they can but sinced us releases games on tuesdays and most european countries do it on thurdsay and friday u will be behind by 2 days if u dont pre order.
if u pre order game it wont matter when u actually get released it matters when u input your code on when u get early acess.
ill admit i didnt go back and read this entier thread but im betting one of those is the eu getting screwed.
if anything people in south america and australia and new zealand and asia are getting screwed more unless they get copy from eu or us they cant play at all . They can of course buy from us or eu and play on those servers with lag but at least eu players have servers in there region and will be released when us is.
oh and theres a new thread up for eu players on dev tracker.
first off they had an issue with there invite system which made that not happen, second theya re gonna wait to invite any players now till they get new client up and running one with french and german langauges in it.
so u can play that language and they didnt want eu plyaers downloaded 27 gb client then have to re download it in a couple days.
so give them a few days to get new client up and u will get invites.
oh and for the record i have read dev tracker regularly they arent being disrespectful to eu players.
they are keeping u informed as they know whats happening. this is beta and so u all know just because they send eu invites doesnt gaurantee u personally will get in then what will u do if them postponing invites does this to u.
id love to get into beta as american but havent been invited yet for weekend or full time at least u have an oppurtunity soon to get into full time and i probably dont.
I suppose its not as bad as places like Phillipines and other countries who get screwed worse than Europe.
But still. This is nothing new. In reality I always thought Europe was a much easier market to focus on since our internet infrastructure is far superior to America/other countries apart from Asia. But oh well. Localisation problems. Sure. Call it what you want.
QFT m8
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Played: SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
Bioware, the only company to create an MMO that causes an international incident.
While I can understand the dissapointment of the redzoners (I'm one too) and those in the EU that desperatly want into beta, and while I realize this web site is devoted to discussing MMOs, those of you who are seriously pissed off about this situation go and take a good look through the world news. There are many people out there in the big bad world with real problems. If not being able to directly buy a copy of SWTOR or get into the first round of beta are the worst things in your lives you can find to complain about, condsider yourselves goddamed lucky.
And if this little forum thread is all it takes for many of you to start flinging nationality based insults like a bunch of crap flinging monkeys, maybe EA would be wiser to keep the groups seperate, as it seems a large percentage of players on both sides are too immature to behave like civilized human beings.
Jeux Sans Frontières indeed.
+1 this.
I started reading this thread last night (I'm one of those Euro peeps) and I actually had to walk away from my computer.
Between this and all the other out of control incidents surrounding this game, I'm getting more than a bit alarmed about the SW:TOR "community". Tardcore is so right, he should be given some sort of title -"Righteous wielder of truth" or something.
I've been biting my tongue whilst reading this thread as it's just the latest in a long line of similar ones full of misinformed crap. Because we're still under an NDA, many of us Europeans have had to stand by and read this stuff because we are limited in what we are allowed to say.
However, I'm in the UK and the NDA does allow me to confirm I have already taken part in in testing of SWTOR.
Fortunately, if you check out the dev tracker at http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php you'll see that StephenReid has publicly confirmed a couple of things I have been dying to say. ie. Europeans have already been involved in testing SWTOR. and that the client we were using already had some degree of localisation in it (Albeit he says that the version in question was incomplete and released in error)
So please quit saying the Europeans are being ignored. They aren't.
Whow, now thats an erruption on the b**s*** scala if there ever was one.
Of course Europe has plenty of own gaming companies. So what ? Does that mean we should be limited to play those games exclusively ?
If you read between the lines I think you might notice that the general reference is that games produced in the EU tend to do the majority of their testing in the EU first and then branch out from there. Just as the games produced in the Far East start their testing in their local areas. This person while a little extreme in the way he said it, is actually accurate in his analysis. He actually explained it very well in the next post he made a couple after the one you quoted.
By the way though, you did really good act making yourself look silly by referencing only one line of a multi-line post. Basically by only listing the one line you thought made him look the worst, you made a liar out of yourself.
Lastly though, I would like to applaud the EU players that have come out and admitted they have in fact tested this game. It proves the whole thread is in fact a collosal waste of time since it is completely wrong.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think this latest delay is a minor issue, though it sucks that Europeans haven't been able to get in for so long already.
I think the bigger issue is going to be localisation. We all cry about Engrish and badly translated Asian games, well at least there are a few months for them to fix it. Here no one has seen the French or German versions of SWTOR, it could be, and probably will be, terrible
I think this latest delay is a minor issue, though it sucks that Europeans haven't been able to get in for so long already.
I think the bigger issue is going to be localisation. We all cry about Engrish and badly translated Asian games, well at least there are a few months for them to fix it. Here no one has seen the French or German versions of SWTOR, it could be, and probably will be, terrible
On what basis exactly are you drawing your conclusion from? Would be really interesting to know.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I suppose its not as bad as places like Phillipines and other countries who get screwed worse than Europe.
But still. This is nothing new. In reality I always thought Europe was a much easier market to focus on since our internet infrastructure is far superior to America/other countries apart from Asia. But oh well. Localisation problems. Sure. Call it what you want.
I found it kind of ironic that this thread started yesterday I guess. Since yesterday BioWare actually posted an update in regards to this and that it was delayed a bit longer and why. It was on the general european forum on like page 30 something of a thread.. (dev tracker will find it easily if you want to read it) *edited this line a bit*
They announced on the general forum in the reply.. so its not an NDA issue (for any mod that might see this). There is a major new build that is going to deploy perhaps this week. Whcih will be the first localized build as well as it will require a complete re-download. They decided it was best to wait instead of having people download 27 gigs (according to the post) and then a few days later have to redownload another 27 gigs. I'm not sure now but I know it used to be many EU customers had bandwidth caps per month.
They also said they had intended to start doing EU invites previously but there was an issue... <- they could have explained that instead of leaving it all mysterious.. the type of thing irritated people jump on and call BS. Simply because people outside of BioWare who know what the issue was cannot because of the NDA. Which just goes to show sometimes explaining something is the better idea.
Anyway... I quoted the person above because even tho I live in the US I have definitely seen this. Altho at least the film industry has started to do world wide releases... and really in this day and age it only makes sense.
*note* I think the TOR site is down at the moment. However, the post I was talking about is easily found using Dev Tracker and was in the EU forum section.
*note 2* Some people seem confused because "BioWare" is on the box. When EA paid $860 Million to purchase BioWare it became EA regardless of retained name. Often see posts from irritated Canadians saying its a Canadian company. Tho I'm not sure why EA can't get world wide distribution done... Ultima Online has been running localized servers all over the world from way back when the internet was uphill both ways.
Thats why i never buy ne games that has todo with EA, but TOR isnt devolped by EA but BW, they just invested some money into the devolpmend or how ever u spell it.
After they sunk Earth & Beyond they r on my bann list, and if they ever distribute a game i like that isnt made by them i use other means to get my hands on
This thread is based on too much ranting to be of any use. They didn't delete the EU Testing threads, only the duplicate ones like with all threads, the main one is running in its third or fourth itiration now.
What personally pisses me off the most are people coming in yelling, "You have no right to beta! Stop whining!", while forgetting that they themselves also have no right to it, but are given a right (to have a chance) nonetheless. Everyone is excited about the beta weekends, so its only natural that people will defend their own chances and will have an opinion about things that concern them.
If you're yearning for a beta invite in your email every day yourself, you really don't have any business complaining about anyone feeling entitled to the same treatment as you.
Regardless, my personal biggest question is the actual state of the European servers and infrastructure we will be using at launch. I would hope that they've at least got that structure in place already, otherwise we could be in for some nasty surprises further up the road.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I suppose its not as bad as places like Phillipines and other countries who get screwed worse than Europe.
But still. This is nothing new. In reality I always thought Europe was a much easier market to focus on since our internet infrastructure is far superior to America/other countries apart from Asia. But oh well. Localisation problems. Sure. Call it what you want.
And dont forget that Europe OWNS in MMO look at WOW pvp most top team are european players and in dungon raids its mostly a european guild that get the first kill on boss's!
And its porly of BIO and EA those big company does not have the servers in place and have the language for the none speaking english player, before eaven speaking of Beta testing!
Its like that NASA should forget the fuels to the rockets when launch a shuttle to space!
So its sux a bit to always come in second place when try to test a new game!
Uh. I never understood why anyone would want to beta. I dont do things like that - testing a program - for free.
And no I dont want to play on the same servers as the US americans. Thats simply because I want a good ping to the server I'm playing on, thank you very much. Thats something I need to actually enjoy an online game, and it has priority over issues like meeting US americans. If they want to play on the server I'm playing on, which hopefully is very close to my physical existence, sure, go ahead. But I wont play on a server stationed in the USA.
Comments
[Mod Edit]
OT: it really takes more than what most people think it does to release online games across the oceans. Licenses, have to be met with local area's have to make sure you are following all the laws procedures for each and every local country they intend to release in etc etc.
This is Beta testing , not a free ride to check out a game you and many other people are wanting to play regardless of location, being excited about or even pre-ordering a game, does not give ANY customer a right to Beta test period.
back up to that whole topic of the US economy , Bioware/EA regardless of how you see them conducting this business of beta testing avaliablity of the game, will not nor will it ever fix the US economy or anything else economic wise past perhaps a few local jobs it might create or stimulate the local economy of an office location(s) it may have. that is just a silly arguement and as such that particular strawman should be torched imo. I mean really EA saves US Economy Through SWTOR . One will never see that headline ever /giggle
This whole EU>< USA thing is silly as well. I understand ones want to play a game but that should have no bearing on saying one country is better than any other etc, we are ALL gamers at heart regardless of our country of origin.
peace
Just stop it, it's silly.
The whole thread almost turning into usa vs europe fight.
I think american people had similar problems with some european game, was it Darkfall..?
Yeah, it sucks to not get an invite, but i think you'll live..
Actually as an EU citizen in England I am very grateful that I was allowed to partake in the 1 month marketing beta that just went by. And am very honoured that I was chosen.
It wasn't wikipedia (too many LIES!) but no I did not know that. When was the UK able to preorder TOR?
Edit: If my information is correct, it was the same time as the US. Argument invalid again! Your move HAHA!
Wow Khal....
I remember being on the opposite side of the sandbox/SWG stuff as you many a times. Didnt care for your style too much, but not only have you redemed yourself to me(which I know you dont care), I might have some platonic- man-luv-crush going on for ya. HEH.
Seriously....I fully agree.
I have no doubts BW/EA wanna get in good with the EU crowd. Right now though they are trying to make sure things are running smoothly.
I also agree with the notion that everyone & their brother run their mouths off to us as a nation. As someone had stated, this is about the logistics of setting all this up....instead some folks wanna throw insults at us. As an American, I agree with the stance....dont like it, then make your own.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
EU are 3rd rate Customers. Period.
We get films late
We get games late
We get beta tests late!
I suppose its not as bad as places like Phillipines and other countries who get screwed worse than Europe.
But still. This is nothing new. In reality I always thought Europe was a much easier market to focus on since our internet infrastructure is far superior to America/other countries apart from Asia. But oh well. Localisation problems. Sure. Call it what you want.
Here we go.
Although I think that the core message in this quote will fly right over the head of a major part of mmorpg.com visitors and posters, considering the kind of stuff people already get agitated and in a fit about.
Still,
+1
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bioware has stated they cant do anything about when stores put out new content . so getting a game 2 days later then us isnt a bad thing. If u pre order u get in early with early acess and u wont even realize u are behind us by 2 days.
That said beta has been gone over and over by stephen reid and others. eu players are getting into main beta now and will get into eu testing on eu servers when they have them up and runningl
they have stated they will release in us and eu as close as they can but sinced us releases games on tuesdays and most european countries do it on thurdsay and friday u will be behind by 2 days if u dont pre order.
if u pre order game it wont matter when u actually get released it matters when u input your code on when u get early acess.
ill admit i didnt go back and read this entier thread but im betting one of those is the eu getting screwed.
if anything people in south america and australia and new zealand and asia are getting screwed more unless they get copy from eu or us they cant play at all . They can of course buy from us or eu and play on those servers with lag but at least eu players have servers in there region and will be released when us is.
I've cleaned the thread up to this point. Please stay on topic and follow the RoC.
oh and theres a new thread up for eu players on dev tracker.
first off they had an issue with there invite system which made that not happen, second theya re gonna wait to invite any players now till they get new client up and running one with french and german langauges in it.
so u can play that language and they didnt want eu plyaers downloaded 27 gb client then have to re download it in a couple days.
so give them a few days to get new client up and u will get invites.
oh and for the record i have read dev tracker regularly they arent being disrespectful to eu players.
they are keeping u informed as they know whats happening. this is beta and so u all know just because they send eu invites doesnt gaurantee u personally will get in then what will u do if them postponing invites does this to u.
id love to get into beta as american but havent been invited yet for weekend or full time at least u have an oppurtunity soon to get into full time and i probably dont.
[Mod Edit]
QFT m8
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
+1 this.
I started reading this thread last night (I'm one of those Euro peeps) and I actually had to walk away from my computer.
Between this and all the other out of control incidents surrounding this game, I'm getting more than a bit alarmed about the SW:TOR "community". Tardcore is so right, he should be given some sort of title -"Righteous wielder of truth" or something.
Perspective, people, perspective.
I love these EuroOutrage threads.
I've been biting my tongue whilst reading this thread as it's just the latest in a long line of similar ones full of misinformed crap. Because we're still under an NDA, many of us Europeans have had to stand by and read this stuff because we are limited in what we are allowed to say.
However, I'm in the UK and the NDA does allow me to confirm I have already taken part in in testing of SWTOR.
Fortunately, if you check out the dev tracker at http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php you'll see that StephenReid has publicly confirmed a couple of things I have been dying to say. ie. Europeans have already been involved in testing SWTOR. and that the client we were using already had some degree of localisation in it (Albeit he says that the version in question was incomplete and released in error)
So please quit saying the Europeans are being ignored. They aren't.
Whow, now thats an erruption on the b**s*** scala if there ever was one.
Of course Europe has plenty of own gaming companies. So what ? Does that mean we should be limited to play those games exclusively ?
Same here - 10 months ago in fact.
If you read between the lines I think you might notice that the general reference is that games produced in the EU tend to do the majority of their testing in the EU first and then branch out from there. Just as the games produced in the Far East start their testing in their local areas. This person while a little extreme in the way he said it, is actually accurate in his analysis. He actually explained it very well in the next post he made a couple after the one you quoted.
By the way though, you did really good act making yourself look silly by referencing only one line of a multi-line post. Basically by only listing the one line you thought made him look the worst, you made a liar out of yourself.
Lastly though, I would like to applaud the EU players that have come out and admitted they have in fact tested this game. It proves the whole thread is in fact a collosal waste of time since it is completely wrong.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think this latest delay is a minor issue, though it sucks that Europeans haven't been able to get in for so long already.
I think the bigger issue is going to be localisation. We all cry about Engrish and badly translated Asian games, well at least there are a few months for them to fix it. Here no one has seen the French or German versions of SWTOR, it could be, and probably will be, terrible
On what basis exactly are you drawing your conclusion from? Would be really interesting to know.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think i see why Bioware limited cross faction talk to /say. A thread started about beta has turned into NA vs EU.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
I found it kind of ironic that this thread started yesterday I guess. Since yesterday BioWare actually posted an update in regards to this and that it was delayed a bit longer and why. It was on the general european forum on like page 30 something of a thread.. (dev tracker will find it easily if you want to read it) *edited this line a bit*
They announced on the general forum in the reply.. so its not an NDA issue (for any mod that might see this). There is a major new build that is going to deploy perhaps this week. Whcih will be the first localized build as well as it will require a complete re-download. They decided it was best to wait instead of having people download 27 gigs (according to the post) and then a few days later have to redownload another 27 gigs. I'm not sure now but I know it used to be many EU customers had bandwidth caps per month.
They also said they had intended to start doing EU invites previously but there was an issue... <- they could have explained that instead of leaving it all mysterious.. the type of thing irritated people jump on and call BS. Simply because people outside of BioWare who know what the issue was cannot because of the NDA. Which just goes to show sometimes explaining something is the better idea.
Anyway... I quoted the person above because even tho I live in the US I have definitely seen this. Altho at least the film industry has started to do world wide releases... and really in this day and age it only makes sense.
*note* I think the TOR site is down at the moment. However, the post I was talking about is easily found using Dev Tracker and was in the EU forum section.
*note 2* Some people seem confused because "BioWare" is on the box. When EA paid $860 Million to purchase BioWare it became EA regardless of retained name. Often see posts from irritated Canadians saying its a Canadian company. Tho I'm not sure why EA can't get world wide distribution done... Ultima Online has been running localized servers all over the world from way back when the internet was uphill both ways.
Thats why i never buy ne games that has todo with EA, but TOR isnt devolped by EA but BW, they just invested some money into the devolpmend or how ever u spell it.
After they sunk Earth & Beyond they r on my bann list, and if they ever distribute a game i like that isnt made by them i use other means to get my hands on
This thread is based on too much ranting to be of any use. They didn't delete the EU Testing threads, only the duplicate ones like with all threads, the main one is running in its third or fourth itiration now.
What personally pisses me off the most are people coming in yelling, "You have no right to beta! Stop whining!", while forgetting that they themselves also have no right to it, but are given a right (to have a chance) nonetheless. Everyone is excited about the beta weekends, so its only natural that people will defend their own chances and will have an opinion about things that concern them.
If you're yearning for a beta invite in your email every day yourself, you really don't have any business complaining about anyone feeling entitled to the same treatment as you.
Regardless, my personal biggest question is the actual state of the European servers and infrastructure we will be using at launch. I would hope that they've at least got that structure in place already, otherwise we could be in for some nasty surprises further up the road.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
And dont forget that Europe OWNS in MMO look at WOW pvp most top team are european players and in dungon raids its mostly a european guild that get the first kill on boss's!
And its porly of BIO and EA those big company does not have the servers in place and have the language for the none speaking english player, before eaven speaking of Beta testing!
Its like that NASA should forget the fuels to the rockets when launch a shuttle to space!
So its sux a bit to always come in second place when try to test a new game!
Uh. I never understood why anyone would want to beta. I dont do things like that - testing a program - for free.
And no I dont want to play on the same servers as the US americans. Thats simply because I want a good ping to the server I'm playing on, thank you very much. Thats something I need to actually enjoy an online game, and it has priority over issues like meeting US americans. If they want to play on the server I'm playing on, which hopefully is very close to my physical existence, sure, go ahead. But I wont play on a server stationed in the USA.