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Building First Rig - Need Help
Hello all,
I decided it was time to get a desktop pc as I currently only have a laptop and thought it would be a good idea to build my own and save money. I am using the UK novatech website based on some research and any advice on some of my findings would be much appreciated.
So far:
Case:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/novatech/nov-vulcan.html
Mobo:
Processor:
Graphics card:
HDD:
SSD:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-ssd/ocz/agt3-25sat3-60g.html
RAM: (Getting 16 GB as I'd like to use programs like UDK, maya etc etc)
PSU: (is 600W enough?)
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/powersupplies/novatech/nov-psg600.html
Monitor:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/monitors/22inchmonitors/novatech/nov-nlcd22.html
Speakers:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/peripherals/speakers/logitech/970264-0120.html
Keyboard:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/peripherals/keyboards/novatech/nov-key1r.html
No mouse needed.
All for £726.62.
So I guess what I really need to know is whether or not this is a solid build. My budget is probably hovering around £1000. Is everything compatible? Do I need a bigger power supply? This is my first build and I'm not very computer savvy but I've managed to piece this together based on my limited knowledge. I don't plan on buying this for at least 4-6 weeks so should I wait for something better to come out? I've heard that some new AMD technology is coming out soon. I plan to use the computer for general gaming, game development, movies, music etc etc.
Thanks for your time.
Comments
not sure here since i havent build a computer in intel barn,but arent you supposed to buy a triple channel mobo (since intel do some that use triple channel.(dont think it is avail in amd the triple channel thing yet only double channel.
if you are gona go for intel i would advise going triple channel.unless there is an advange in the dual channel i ain aware of?
I didn't look at ur links as I am to lazy, but. try Cyberpower.com . the shipping sucks but my PC is awesome. Also, I would suggest to go all out on a good motherboard. So that way as time progresses and you have more money you can buy i7 procc and better Gphix card etc. thats what I did and so far so good, Now all i need is better proccesor and I will be gtg
Thanks for the input so far. I'm not really sure on the differences between triple and dual-channel technology. I did find this which supports triple channel though:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/motherboards/intel1366x58chipsetmotherboards/gigabyte/ga-x58-g1-assassin.html
It is far more expensive, however...
Will check cyberpower out when I get a chance, thank you.
Hi hebzster. I would like to tell you this is a solid build, but I've built my PC on an AMD/ATI foundation. I would refer you to this site: http://www.tomshardware.com/ . They are based out of Germany and have some of the most thourough product reviews I have ever seen.
Your 600w PSU should be enough, though, you should check out the websites of Intel and nVidia to see if you can find the exact power requirements of your CPU and GPU. If you think you would like to add a 2nd GPU, in the future, and/or overclock your CPU and RAM, you may want to look at getting a more powerful PSU, possibly in the 850-1100w range.
Triple channel only applies to the X58 1366 motherboards (and the Core i7 Bloomfield/Gulftown CPU's). The latest generation Intel 1155 motherboards (P67/M67/Z68) are dual channel, most older Intel chipsets are dual channel, and the upcoming X79 2011 motherboards (the new Sandy Bridge Extremes) will be quad channel.
You don't really want to go with an X58 right now, they are still pricey, Sandy Bridge is faster for a lot less money for gaming, and the third channel of memory really only does you any good in some rather niche situations.
Taking a quick glance at your build:
You probably want a different power supply. 600W is plenty but quality is more important. I can't find any reviews of this particular power supply that prove if it's good one way or another. Quiz will probably be able to point you better resources, but I'd steer towards the Corsair myself, they may not be the best or the cheapest, but they are a safe bet if you aren't sure of the options.
Take a glance at the Western Digital Caviar Black hard drives instead of the Seagates - they perform a good deal better for not a lot more money.
Motherboard and CPU are fine, you could probably go with a less expensive motherboard, but the Asus one you have picked out is a pretty good one.
RAM is ok but you may want lower voltage RAM, that you have picked out is pretty high (1.8-1.9V) which could lead to stability problems. Try looking for something with the same speed (1333Mhz PC3-10666) but with a lower voltage (1.5-1.6 range). There is a Corsair and G.Skill 8G kit for L42 on Novatech's site - two of those would be 16G, but it would cost a good deal more. Or you could roll the dice with the cheaper RAM, it will ~probably~ do ok so long as you don't over clock it, and you have 5 years to return it for a replacement if it does act quirky...
600 W is plenty, if it's a good 600 W power supply. Is a house brand Novatech power supply a good one? From the specs, it might plausibly be good. Or it could just as plausibly be a piece of junk, and it's probably somewhat mediocre. How much of a risk of your computer spontaneously frying everything one day do you want to accept? If your answer is basically none, then get a better power supply:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/powersupplies/antec/0761345-06205-3.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/powersupplies/ocz/ocz-zs650w-uk.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/powersupplies/corsair/cmpsu-650txv2uk.html
Note that they're 480 W, 552 W, and 636 W respectively on the +12 V rails. That's more indicative of capacity than the nominal wattages, so the OCZ unit is closer in capacity to the Antec unit than the Corsair one. The OCZ one is a little lower quality than either of the others, but it's still reasonably nice. Incidentally, the OCZ power supply is built by Sirfa, and the Antec and Corsair ones are both built by Seasonic.
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You should be aware that the second generation SandForce controller has had a firmware glitch that may or may not be fixed by now. It doesn't affect most people, but if it isn't fixed, then there's a <1% chance that it will cause endless blue screens and other headaches for you. Replacing the SSD by another of the same model won't fix it, either. If you don't want to risk that, then a Crucial M4 will have no such problems.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-ssd/crucial/ct064m4ssd2.html
Crucial recently released a firmware update that improves performance, so you might want to grab that before you install anything if you get it.
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I'd question why you're getting an Asus P8P67 Pro for a single video card. You could save £15 by taking the next model down in their line, which really only gives up SLI/CrossFire support that you're not going to use anyway.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/motherboards/intel1155p67chipsetmotherboards/asus/90-mibe4a-g0eay0dz.html
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Do note that the processor you picked cannot be overclocked. If you want to overclock it, you have to pay a little more for otherwise the same thing:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/processors/intelcorei3,i5andi71155socket/BX80623I52500K.html
If you're not going to overclock the processor, then keep the one you picked.
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On your budget, there's no need to go with a cheap house brand case that might have all sorts of unanticipated problems. If you want a decent budget case, then this will work:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/antec/0761345-08300-3.html
Or you could get something nicer without it being outlandishly expensive:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/coolermaster/sgc-2000-kkn1-gp.html
Or, for a little more modern feature set:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/antec/0761345-15230-3.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/coolermaster/sgc-1000-kwn1.html
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The stock voltage of DDR3 memory is 1.5 V. 1.9 V is a huge overvolt. Intel says that anything over 1.65 V could fry the processor. Now, the memory will run at 1.5 V, but if they have to use 1.9 V to hit 1333 MHz, you'd probably have to run it at 1066 MHz or worse, and that will hurt memory bandwidth.
If you really need 16 GB, then pick one of these kits, and buy two:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/memory-pc/ddr3-pc3-12800/1600mhz/corsair/cml8gx3m2a1600c9.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/memory-pc/ddr3-pc3-12800/1600mhz/g.skill/f3-12800cl9d-8gbxl.html
They're both rated for 1600 MHz, so you could run it at 1600 MHz, or you could run it at 1333 MHz and reduce the latency timings to something like 7-7-7-20. They're nearly the same price as 1333 MHz kits.
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The video card you picked is a very poor value for the money. You could get something much faster for the same price:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/nvidiageforcegraphicscards/nvidiagtx560tifermiseries/kfa2/56ngh6hs4itz.html
Or about the same performance for much cheaper:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/atiradeongraphicscards/atihd6800series/xfx/hd-687a-znfc.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/nvidiageforcegraphicscards/nvidiagtx560fermiseries/msi/n560gtx-m2d1gd5.html
Or even about the same performance with a premium cooler for cheaper than what you picked:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/atiradeongraphicscards/atihd6800series/msi/r6870hawk.html
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/nvidiageforcegraphicscards/nvidiagtx560fermiseries/msi/n560gtxtwinfrozriioc.html
Now, you were probably thinking, 2 GB of video memory. But for a single 1080p monitor, 2 GB of video memory doesn't matter. Well, in Metro 2033, it might. But that's the only game on the market that review sites have found where more than 1 GB matters at all at that resolution, so it's something of an outlier.
I recommend DO NOT buy from iBuypower or those types of websites. They are in business because they overcharge you for a simple build you could do yourself.
Firstly guys, thank you for the excellent advice - it's been invaluable. I've revised my original choices based on your feedback and this is what I have so far:
Case:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/Antec/0761345-08300-3.html
Mobo:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/motherboards/intel1155p67chipsetmotherboards/asus/90-mibe5a-g0eay0kz.html
Processor:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/processors/intelcorei3,i5andi71155socket/Intel/BX80623I52500K.html
Graphics card:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/nvidiageforcegraphicscards/nvidiagtx560tifermiseries/KFA2/56NGH6HS4ITZ.html
HDD:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-internal/sata500gbto1tb/WesternDigital/WD1002FAEX.html
SSD:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-ssd/Crucial/CT064M4SSD2.html
RAM:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/memory-pc/ddr3-pc3-12800/1600mhz/Corsair/CML8GX3M2A1600C9.html
PSU:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/powersupplies/Corsair/CMPSU-650TXV2UK.html
With the peripherals this all comes to £919.83. I've changed pretty much everything apart from the motherboard thanks to the feedback from Quizzical and Ridelynn . Everything seems to be in order but I'm just concerned still about my choice of motherboard and processor. I don't plan to overclock but would like to spend the extra few pounds just in case I get a bit curious
Quizzical, the reason I chose that motherboard was because of the SLI technology as I may want to add another graphics card in the future, say a year or so. I guess what I'm really after here is longevity. I want a system that will last me a while and which I can upgrade when needed.
To be frank, do you guys think these are all decent choices? What would your setup be with a budget of £1000 plus or minus a bit of change? Again, thank you for help - getting excited about my first build
If you're not going to buy two video cards when you first get the machine, then I'd advise against planning on adding a second one later. You don't just need a more expensive motherboard to accommodate the second card. You also need a stronger power supply and a bigger case with more airflow. That typically adds around $100 to the initial purchase price just to have the option to go SLI or CrossFire later--and that's $100 that could be better spent elsewhere, in making the computer actually better.
Furthermore, even if you do spend the $100 up front, it's likely that you'll never add the second card. If you wait a couple of years, then the GeForce GTX 560 will be off the market and gone, so you won't be able to add a new one for SLI. You could pick up one used, but then you might be getting a problematic card that someone else was trying to get rid of for a reason.
Even if you do need better graphical performance later, it's likely that it will make more sense to replace the GTX 560 by one newer card that doesn't exist today. That might get you performance in the same ballpark as two GTX 560s in SLI, without the headaches of SLI not working right, with much lower power consumption, without the issues that Nvidia isn't being that diligent about optimizing drivers for older cards anymore, and with a more modern feature set that the GTX 560 can never have.
The biggest reason to go CrossFire or SLI right now is for multi-monitor setups. And Fermi doesn't do multi-monitor setups well, and never will, as the hardware simply lacks things that it needs to do it properly.
Also, you probably need an optical drive and an OS license, neither of which you link there. Optical drives are pretty much a commodity, so pick the cheapest SATA DVD burner and it should be fine.
I agree with your sentiment about overclocking: I have a system I built to overclock, but I only actually overclock it when I need to. 98% of the time I run it at stock speeds: it runs cooler, it's quieter, it costs less electricity to run it. Then when I play a game that actually requires a bit more "umph" I can flip the switch and get that extra 20% or so without having to pay for it full time.
I like the Asus Pro motherboards, they are very nice. I have used the X58 versions quite a bit, and from all I hear the P67's are even better. Sure, you could likely get cheaper, but if you don't have to, I wouldn't.
Regarding SLI: I do agree with Quizzical about this. If you are going to SLI, do it now while your building it. SLI will require a totally different power supply, and likely case (although you will have a motherboard that will support it fine). If you don't plan for it in the beginning, it's almost never worthwhile to add in later on. That, and it is rather a hassle - most games are glitchy or unsupported when they first release, and you have to wait weeks (sometimes months) to get driver profiles so that SLI will work correctly in the first place. If you absolutely need extra speed that you can't find in a single card, then SLI is great. If you can make due with a single card - even if it's the $500+ card and two $200 cards in SLI give the "same" performance, then your probably better off with the single card.
There are hidden costs (the better motherboard, better case ventilation, bigger power supply, more heat generation, higher electrical cost, driver profile updates) in SLI, more than just the cost of the video cards. When you look at upgrading in the future, adding a second card of what you have now will be a bad idea: in all likelihood that card will be discontinued and outdated (making it hard to find). Newer cards will be more power efficient, and there's a good chance will support additional hardware features (DX12? OpenCL 2.0? who knows). Using Moore's Law and PCI 2/3 specifications (as we are hitting thermal limitations more so than anything), you can more or less predict what the speed and price of video cards are going to be 3-4 years from now (when you would likely be needing to upgrade based on game technology evolution): you'll see a new generation of video cards roughly every 12-18 months, which will present roughly a 20-30% increase in performance at the same price point as the previous generation's product.
That being said, if you just want to tinker with SLI for the sake of tinkering with it, by all means experiment away. But if your looking for price (or hassle) versus performance gain, it really isn't a bargain. The 650W power supply you have picked out can just barely run a pair of 560's (they are 170W each, CPU is another 95W, and everything else I figure around 100W), but it will run hard to do that and I wouldn't think of overclocking if you are running SLI like that - 750W power supply would be a much more comfortable fit in that case. Jumping up to a pair of any more powerful video cards just isn't really an option without a different power supply.
One other thing: if you're going to overclock the processor, you need a better heatsink. Even at stock speeds, you may prefer a cheap aftermarket heatsink, as the stock heatsink is terrible.
Checkout Overclockers too. I think you should get the P67 motherboard chipset with Intel i5K CPU. GPU get an Nvidia GTX470/480 if on budget or the GTX 570 If not. Antec gamer 620 power supply.
Solid State drive if the budget allows to install OS on and 7200RPM good brand SATA HDD 3gig SATA , don't bother with SATA 6gig HDD,they never reach that throughput in practice due to mechanical restriction ,you need SSD for proper benefit of 6gig SATA standard.
16gigs of Dual channel DDR3 hyperX Kingston, Creative gamer X Fi Sound card and if your budget allows and you play MMO's alot or will play BF3 and want the extra response, then get a Bigfoot 2100 Nic card.
Then get a Samsung 22 inch 3D vision monitor. You get the option to get the Nvidia 3d set at a later date and if you don't get it your games can scream along at 120fps with sync on and a smooth feel like the CRT days, instead of the dreaded 60hrz LCD have been stuck at for ages. The rest is your own choices should be fine.
Seems that the guys have sorted you nicely - all i would suggest now is shopping about:
www.scan.co.uk
www.dabs.com
and
www.ebuyer.co.uk
Been buying most my stuff off dabs at the moment as they seem to be the cheapest for the same thing plus free delivery.
If you based near Bolton would be worth a drive over to Scan (they based at the Reebok Staddium) - i miss not living in Manchester
i'm not entirely sure about that. the die shrink in the next 4 years will bring us close to the 10nm limit(intel is planning on hitting 10nm at 2017-2018ish) which is the real limit to performance. until then, I dont see gpu taking a big hit. thermal/electrical limits can be overcome easily at least in the next 4 years. with the factory adaptation of liquid cooling at high end products, thermal limit is not a real issue.
This should be everything I need. This all comes to £1005.58 including VAT. Any thoughts? Am I getting a good deal here in terms of quality and price? Anywhere I can make improvements without increasing costs too much? I'm thinking about getting a heatsink but don't know anything about them - any recommendations?
Thank you all for your help.
Case:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/cases/cases/Antec/0761345-08300-3.html
Mobo:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/motherboards/intel1155p67chipsetmotherboards/Asus/90-MIBE5A-G0EAY0KZ.html
Processor:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/processors/intelcorei3,i5andi71155socket/Intel/BX80623I52500K.html
GPU:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/nvidiageforcegraphicscards/nvidiagtx560tifermiseries/KFA2/56NGH6HS4ITZ.html
RAM:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/memory-pc/ddr3-pc3-12800/1600mhz/Corsair/CML8GX3M2A1600C9.html
SSD:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-ssd/Crucial/CT064M4SSD2.html
HDD:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-internal/sata500gbto1tb/WesternDigital/WD1002FAEX.html
PSU:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/powersupplies/Corsair/CMPSU-650TXV2UK.html
Drive:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/opticaldrives/satadvdwriters/Samsung/SH-S222ABBEBE.html
OS:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/software/Microsoft/GFC-02050.html
Monitor:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/monitors/22inchmonitors/Novatech/NOV-NLCD22.html
Keyboard:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/peripherals/keyboards/Novatech/NOV-KEY1R.html
Speakers:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/peripherals/speakers/Logitech/970264-0120.html
I still think you're wasting money on the motherboard, but it should work.
I'd also recommend checking eBuyer and Overclockers UK. In some cases where I've checked prices for other people in Britain, they tended to have cheaper prices than Novatech.
hehe we should have a sticky thread of "quizzy approved venders" so you know where to order from anywhere in the world:D
For you GPU check out
http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-560-ti-900mhz-1gb-pci-e-hdmi--overclocked--7B29.html?refs=465340000-50509
According to toms hardware best mid-high range card, and only £5 more than the one you are looking at
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-radeon-graphics,review-32235.html
I only know about this as i just bought one after doing lots of research
But best of luck with your build
Hello all,
I've decided to make a few more changes to my build. I think it may be wise to cut costs a bit and drop down to 8 GB of Ram rather than 16 as, despite using programs like UDK and maya, 16 GB may be a bit of an overkill.
I've also decided to go with Simon's recommendation for the GPU:
http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-560-ti-900mhz-1gb-pci-e-hdmi--overclocked--7B29.html?refs=465340000-50509
I also think it's wise to go with a cooler. I have no idea which ones are any good but I saw this one on the novatech website:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/cooling/cpucoolers/dcaco-fp701-csa01.html
With all this taken into consideration - am I looking at a strong build now? Will this last me a good 4 years or so without any major upgrades etc? Are there better options out there than what I have in terms of bang for my buck?
Thanks,
Hebzster
As for the GPU, I would go for the N570GTX Twin Frozr III Power Edition by MSI. I think it's the best bang for your buck at the moment with high end GPU cards.
I'm not sure about the 600W powersupply, seems a bit weak. But i'm not an expert!
About your monitor, I don't know the brand. But it seems a bit.. cheap. And I don't like cheap. Just a personal thing.
Thank you for your comment. Anyone have any ideas on the cooler? Is it any good?
Thanks
selecting from the site you linked, this unit should be better. abit more expensive, but a 120mm fan will perform better with a wider range of possibilities down the road.
Right. Small update. Decided to change the monitor to this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/VE247H-Widescreen-Response-Intelligence-Technology/dp/B004T2LMP2/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1316615615&sr=1-3
Is this any good? Should I go smaller if I'm worried about performance? What should I expect with my current build? Max graphics on most games? Will this easily allow me to work with programs like the UDK, Maya, 3DS Max, etc etc?
Thanks for the help guys. Just about ready to purchase this build. Any news on the new AMD processors? Should I wait? Sorry for all the questions - just don't want to make the wrong decision when I'm stuck with all the parts.
Hebzster
Anyone?