Nobody can crucify anyone for stating how good WoW was/is. All you really have to do is bring up the 10+ million reasons why.
Let it be known that I have played Wow, from Vanilla to Cata until I stopped because I hate how the game development has gone. So, while I despise the game now, I'd be a hypocrite if I stated the game was trash.
I could also note that 6.86 billion poeple do not play the game. See I can use numbers as well and they do not mean anything at all. Still the majority of people do not play the game so by your logic we can assume the game is infact bad! Is 10 million a lot? Well yes that for sure, well done Blizzard. Does it say anything about the state of the game? Prolly not.
In fact we only have to look at religion to proof that just because a lot of poeple agree with something it does not make it true. Someone has to be wrong after all.
To the topic:
I do not think it's about ganking a nuub, but the fact that YOU can be ganked as a nuub.
SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players. It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them. ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.
Nerd rage followed from the PK community.
My question is WHY?
Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle? Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?
Perhaps because they are idiots and are unable to win an almost fair fight? I am just guessing here because I don't understand the mentality (or lack of it) that enjoys comiting murder.
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
Sure, people who take part in the game mechanics of a game are clearly fucked up in the head, they obviously spend their spair time pulling legs off of ants in the backyard.
funny thing is every time any talk about pvp comes up what gets questioned is the menality of the people who enjoy "pking"/"ganking" , when we have people who obsessivley love having virtual pets, relationships and are so disconnected from reality that their virtual world becomes their real world, sorry roleplaying to me seems just as insane as you consider a pk'er/ganker
as far as most people who enjoy pvp are concerned (not always) red = dead and usually a quick kill of a low player will bring over a group of high level players out of congested areas (ya, you mr i only zerg people because is is the only way i can win.. same shit right? smother with lots of numbers/smother with higher levels... same shit)
if the game mechanics allow it, it should be expected to happen it is apart of the game
generally speaking, even the fruitcakes who are obssessed with their virtual pets, and virtual girlfriends, when they sign off, that is it.. it is the real world, important jobs, families..etc
get off this "oh he ganks players he is a sociopath" bullshit already, it holds no merit
Your tirade actually strengthens the position that gankers are indeed socially mal-adjusted.
To be clear, I'm not talking about someone cruising through an area, stopping to kill a low-level and moving on... I mean the level-cap maniacs that specifically go to the starter area to kill people that have absolutely no chance of defending themselves...over and over and over... That is very well a sociopathic behavior.
its a game mechanic, if the game allows it (and often retaliation for it happening to them) but like i said its no different then the group of 30 attacking a group of 3
Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic.
One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking?
The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
Originally posted by Squiggie Originally posted by Vinterkrig
its a game mechanic, if the game allows it (and often retaliation for it happening to them) but like i said its no different then the group of 30 attacking a group of 3 Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic. One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking? The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
Stepping beyond what is allowed only by game mechanics, is that behavior allowed by the developer? They are the ultimate arbiter of what is 'ok' and what is 'taboo' in the game itself.
If the game developer allows 30 people to kill a group of 3 people, then it's 'ok' to do it. That doesn't make it a nice thing to do, but it's still 'ok'. Compared to real life, it's not 'ok' to run around cutting people with knives. There are laws that specifically say you shouldn't run around causing bodily injury to other people. There is a difference between a game that does not have such a law and real life that does have such a law.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
its a game mechanic, if the game allows it (and often retaliation for it happening to them) but like i said its no different then the group of 30 attacking a group of 3
Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic.
One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking?
The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
real life and a video game are two totally different things and are not in any way compairable, but going off of what you said, you must refrain from any combat in video games, because of the unacceptable ideology you are running with here.
Then use a game analogy. Gankers are like master chess players than enjoy beating and trash talking a 5 year old.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
its a game mechanic, if the game allows it (and often retaliation for it happening to them) but like i said its no different then the group of 30 attacking a group of 3
Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic.
One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking?
The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
real life and a video game are two totally different things and are not in any way compairable, but going off of what you said, you must refrain from any combat in video games, because of the unacceptable ideology you are running with here.
They are not as different as you think. Both involve inter-personal relationships and behavior.
Your mindset may be applicable to a single-player game where your actions do not affect any other real people. When your 'newb-ganking' affects the gameplay of other people, it crosses over into 'real-life' since those newbs you are ganking are people that have paid 'real-life' money to play said game.
It's become clear that you just aren't grasping the concept here...have fun ganking your newbs while they last. Because of people like you, they won't be playing long...then it's back to the FPS's for you and your like.
No, gankers do not have low self esteem....It's honestly just funny to hear the nerd raging that follows.
That's very difficult to credit when you read their complex construct of justifications--including the contradiction inherent in the above.
Lol... do you feel special for using big words on the internet? Explain to me how my statement is contradictory. Because I think it's funny that some people care wayyyyy too much about video games, it automatically makes me have low self-esteem and have inferiority/superiority issues? Are you citing an actual psychological study, or are you just pulling it out of your ass? That's what I thought.
The contradiction is that for some reason gankers like to bother people enough to hear them complain-to know you are ruining their attempt to have fun and rejoicing in it. That implies some issue with the ganker-low self-esteem or whatever. Most people don.t find enjoyment in doing those things, they find enjoyment in other, more productive parts of gaming or life. And you've said that those who don'y like being ganked should leave game to find new one. If gankers are so bored with their game that they can't find anything else to do, maybe they should find a new game.
The definition of deriving joy from the pain of others is sadism. Most people instinctively recognize this, even without all the social cues that are lacking in online interactions. It's possible that the missing social cues leads to sadistic behavior from people with an otherwise low level of sadistic behavior. In other words, everyone has at least little sadist in them, but it's held in check or filtered by being around people in social situations.
For instance, when I hang around with the people at work, we often make jokes at each others' expense. Each of us are often the recipient of those jokes. We are all taking joy in the pain of others, so are we sadistic? It's largely consensual and it's a bonding activity so no, we're not being sadistic, even though we are engaging in what would otherwise be sadistic behavior. i.e. Taking joy in the pain of another individual.
When someone is killing low level players, they aren't bonding with them and it's not consensual. They may not realize they are causing pain to other players (emotional or psychological pain) or they may assume they aren't, because it's virtual and really, it's a game about killing other players. In these cases, it's not really sadistic.
When you get into killing low level players specifically for the purpose of causing them pain, you're getting into sadistic behavior. In the grand scheme of things it's mostly harmless, but it's still sadistic behavior. Other people recognize this and that's why they get angry at the 'gankers' and angry about this subject.
The 'gankers' realize they are causing some sort of pain by the reactions they get, and taking joy in it they continue the conversation.
I'm not a psychologist, or a sociologist or anything of the kind. I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.
** edit **
'cue' not 'queue'
I think this is a pretty good post, but I would probably argue that online behavours are not any longer isolated with no impact beyond the game or forum and are having an impact in the grand scheme of things.
I personally think for the majority low self esteem and anger stemming from an impotency in their real lives is a major driver for this kind of behaviour, but then of course we have the sociopaths of varying levels that simply lack empathy for others who have incredibly high self esteem and arrigance and see others as inherently worthless. There are other reasons as well, humans are varied and complicated, but ultimately it's the same drivers that traditionally manifests as bullying (or at least would if these people were capable of bullying others in the real world).
Griefers, and I draw a thick line between e-sport style competition and grief ganking, often say 'just because it's funny', but they always seem to fail to ask themselves WHY they find it funny. If they could do that though I doubt they would want to play that way in the first place.
its a game mechanic, if the game allows it (and often retaliation for it happening to them) but like i said its no different then the group of 30 attacking a group of 3
Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic.
One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking?
The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
Stepping beyond what is allowed only by game mechanics, is that behavior allowed by the developer? They are the ultimate arbiter of what is 'ok' and what is 'taboo' in the game itself.
If the game developer allows 30 people to kill a group of 3 people, then it's 'ok' to do it. That doesn't make it a nice thing to do, but it's still 'ok'. Compared to real life, it's not 'ok' to run around cutting people with knives. There are laws that specifically say you shouldn't run around causing bodily injury to other people. There is a difference between a game that does not have such a law and real life that does have such a law.
True, I didn't use the best example there...but the concept still stands.
The question remains, "Why do people gank newbs?" They don't do it simply because the game allows it. There is a reason for them taking part in a behavior like that.
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
Sure, people who take part in the game mechanics of a game are clearly fucked up in the head, they obviously spend their spair time pulling legs off of ants in the backyard.
funny thing is every time any talk about pvp comes up what gets questioned is the menality of the people who enjoy "pking"/"ganking" , when we have people who obsessivley love having virtual pets, relationships and are so disconnected from reality that their virtual world becomes their real world, sorry roleplaying to me seems just as insane as you consider a pk'er/ganker
as far as most people who enjoy pvp are concerned (not always) red = dead and usually a quick kill of a low player will bring over a group of high level players out of congested areas (ya, you mr i only zerg people because is is the only way i can win.. same shit right? smother with lots of numbers/smother with higher levels... same shit)
if the game mechanics allow it, it should be expected to happen it is apart of the game
generally speaking, even the fruitcakes who are obssessed with their virtual pets, and virtual girlfriends, when they sign off, that is it.. it is the real world, important jobs, families..etc
get off this "oh he ganks players he is a sociopath" bullshit already, it holds no merit
Sounds like the same excuse that every other ganker has. Just because the ability is there to kill someone who is WAY lower than you and therefor is of no threat to you (Because the game mechanics allow it) doesn't mean you have to do it. Most who do gank use that as an excuse for simply being a douchebag.
I know the game mechanics allow that in games with PvP. Does that mean I do it because it allows it? No...why? Because I am not an internet thug who gets my jollies beating up on people that award me no challenge and true fun through effort and a level playing field.
But I DO LOVE to hunt down gankers such as yourself. It's one of three scenarios when I do...
1. They get curb stomped, showing me why they go after low levels....so they can actually see what it is like to win a fight. Or..
2. They run like a coward.
3. Run like a coward, call in pals...THEN get the bean bags to attack when it is like 5 or 6 v.s. 1.
Sad really. VERY VERY rarely one doesn't run and gives a good fight.
P.S. Seems you should spend more time learning to spell and how to use proper grammar then you do Pking/Ganking. And no, I am not trying to be the grammar police...but you only prove Squiggie's point in his post when you can't even do the aforementioned things.
I think its suppose to be a bad substitute to sex, ganking that is. I appropriate bad behavior to people who are sexually frustrated or not getting any love. Not always the case, but it goes with the saying 'make love not war', or 'Im a lover not a fighter" etc.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
Sure, people who take part in the game mechanics of a game are clearly fucked up in the head, they obviously spend their spair time pulling legs off of ants in the backyard.
funny thing is every time any talk about pvp comes up what gets questioned is the menality of the people who enjoy "pking"/"ganking" , when we have people who obsessivley love having virtual pets, relationships and are so disconnected from reality that their virtual world becomes their real world, sorry roleplaying to me seems just as insane as you consider a pk'er/ganker
as far as most people who enjoy pvp are concerned (not always) red = dead and usually a quick kill of a low player will bring over a group of high level players out of congested areas (ya, you mr i only zerg people because is is the only way i can win.. same shit right? smother with lots of numbers/smother with higher levels... same shit)
if the game mechanics allow it, it should be expected to happen it is apart of the game
generally speaking, even the fruitcakes who are obssessed with their virtual pets, and virtual girlfriends, when they sign off, that is it.. it is the real world, important jobs, families..etc
get off this "oh he ganks players he is a sociopath" bullshit already, it holds no merit
Sounds like the same excuse that every other ganker has. Just because the ability is there to kill someone who is WAY lower than you and therefor is of no threat to you (Because the game mechanics allow it) doesn't mean you have to do it. Most who do gank use that as an excuse for simply being a douchebag.
I know the game mechanics allow that in games with PvP. Does that mean I do it because it allows it? No...why? Because I am not an internet thug who gets my jollies beating up on people that award me no challenge and true fun through effort and a level playing field.
But I DO LOVE to hunt down gankers such as yourself. It's one of three scenarios when I do...
1. They get curb stomped, showing me why they go after low levels....so they can actually see what it is like to win a fight. Or..
2. They run like a coward.
3. Run like a coward, call in pals...THEN get the bean bags to attack when it is like 5 or 6 v.s. 1.
Sad really. VERY VERY rarely one doesn't run gives a good fight.
P.S. Seems you should spend more time learning to spell and how to use proper grammar then you do Pking/Ganking. And no, I am not trying to be the grammar police...but you only prove Squiggie's point in his post when you can't even do the aforementioned things.
1. Ya my spelling and grammar might be off, but it is an internet forum.. I don't think there is a major need to give a shit.
2. You don't know a damn thing about me, or how I play games. First of all, I don't find any MMOs to be worth my time right now. Secondly, I'm merely standing up for the fact of game mechanics allowing people to do such things. If it is there, it is there.
3. How many games even have "ganking" problems anymore, lol... everything is very casual and carebear in MMOs these days.
It is sad isn't it, that so many people are so upset over nothing.
You are very hostile. You are right, I don't know you...but judging by your responses...I'd be willing to say you take personal offense to some of the remarks here becasue you gank, not just defending it. I know I personally would never get so upset about something I am defending....if I didn't have a stake in it, or have anything to do with anyways. Come to think of it...I wouldn't defend something I didn't have anything to do with in the first place.
And go to nearly any MMO now that has PvP or a PvP server and you WILL find gankers/griefers. To name a few..Runes of Magic, Allods Online, Age of Conan, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Warhammer Online.
When the majority of those that actually play the games, if they get ganked, just get on with it.
I am against the continual ganking of newbs btw. Although not anti ffa.
This is the only problem I have with ganking. The continual ganking of people, just kill them then move on. There's nothing worse than, I'll say a level 60 continually ganking a level 20. They might claim that they're doing it to draw out the equal level people, but as soon as some equal level people show up. The person runs and hides, hell I've seen full groups of high level people run from 2 or 3 equal level people. That's how much they're afraid of dieing in the game, even when the only death penalty is a run from a graveyard.
So when most people say they're doing it to draw out some competition, I call BS. Most games now a days have battlegrounds, or you can jump some people around your level that are questing.
I'm not hostile, and I do not take offense, I just think it is silly to accuse people who gank and pk of being sociopaths.
I can't comment on RoM, Allods as I haven't really put any time into it, but Age of Conan is based off of barbarians...etc.. I'd expect every aspect of the game to be ruthless, EVE ... space piracy? isn't it basically a extremely political game full of conspiracy theft destruction and war for territory? I'd expect nothing less..
WoW.. I played when it launched, the open pvp was fun, I played the first month (so I guess issues wouldn't be seen) and I played briefly after being bribed sometime after BC, and I had no issue with higher levels. Warhammer doesn't even have an open pvp server anymore.
Though I think the better topic here would be that maybe game companies should be making your journey less about levels, why start out as a pesant expecting to become a hero rather than a hero (or villian i guess) starting out as a hero and becoming legendary. Get rid of levels 1-50, its silly.
I never said anything about them being sociopaths, that was someone else. Although I WILL say my ex is one =P. Just them being douchebags. And I am actually referring to those that camp gank/grief. If you get killed being in the wrong place at the wrong time once and they move on fine...live and learn. But if they stick around to purposely make it miserable for you because they can...shame on you.
Anyways, I agree that levels gets old. They should just make skill trees something like the Final Fantasy grids and let the players go with what they want (Based on class skills of course, not all skills in game). This would also help in PvP because people would be a bit more cautious attacking someone since levels wouldn't indicate their power. And make combat a bit more interesting and less predictable....IMO. And I personally feel making the player feel like the "hero" is part of the problem in some MMO's anymore. Never was like that in the beginning...you were just another face in the crowd and you gained status based on your actions and interactions with others server-wide. Making players feel "special" or like the "hero" is for console gaming.
To be brutally honest I would have to question the personality of the people who constantly cry about pvp mechanics in games which they do not actually play, far far more than those using said mechanics in such games.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
Sure, people who take part in the game mechanics of a game are clearly fucked up in the head, they obviously spend their spair time pulling legs off of ants in the backyard.
The romans said "It is not because it is allowed it is right". Think about that for a minute.
funny thing is every time any talk about pvp comes up what gets questioned is the menality of the people who enjoy "pking"/"ganking" , when we have people who obsessivley love having virtual pets, relationships and are so disconnected from reality that their virtual world becomes their real world, sorry roleplaying to me seems just as insane as you consider a pk'er/ganker
However the difference is that one shows an "abnormal" positive emotion which is neither annoying or hateful. The other has a tendency to piss people off and ruin some people's gaming experience. And roleplaying is merely using your fantasy to escape the real world in a harmless way. Ganking lowbies is satisfying your inner jerk.
as far as most people who enjoy pvp are concerned (not always) red = dead and usually a quick kill of a low player will bring over a group of high level players out of congested areas (ya, you mr i only zerg people because is is the only way i can win.. same shit right? smother with lots of numbers/smother with higher levels... same shit)
Most? Not really, i'm a pvp'er but have honor and know how annoying it is to be ganked by people much higher lvl'ed than me and thus ignore the lowbies. I'll hunt down the big boys but the little kids may live for an other day.
if the game mechanics allow it, it should be expected to happen it is apart of the game
It should be expected but it doesn't explain the "why".
generally speaking, even the fruitcakes who are obssessed with their virtual pets, and virtual girlfriends, when they sign off, that is it.. it is the real world, important jobs, families..etc
get off this "oh he ganks players he is a sociopath" bullshit already, it holds no merit
Actually it does to a certain extent. I wouldn't go as far as saying one is a sociopath but the gankers most likely have more frustrations, ego issues or a bigger inner jerk.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
This is the internet. They are all guys, there are no women, so they have no women.
This is the internet, there are plenty of women, you just dont know who is who.
<p>
Most of my gaming friends are in relationships, some of them have played characters of the opposite sex, some haven't. There are no generalities that are absolute.
Newbie ganking created a lot of discontent in Aion originally.
I think as long as they have plenty of PvP available at low levels via instances like in Rift then the 'need' to gank low levellers in open world pvp is reduced.
However at end game levels they need to have incentives for open world pvp - e.g. great prizes for those that venture into the open world pvp zone.
Open world PvP is one of the things that can keep a MMORPG vibrant and exciting.
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
Sure, people who take part in the game mechanics of a game are clearly fucked up in the head, they obviously spend their spair time pulling legs off of ants in the backyard.
funny thing is every time any talk about pvp comes up what gets questioned is the menality of the people who enjoy "pking"/"ganking" , when we have people who obsessivley love having virtual pets, relationships and are so disconnected from reality that their virtual world becomes their real world, sorry roleplaying to me seems just as insane as you consider a pk'er/ganker
as far as most people who enjoy pvp are concerned (not always) red = dead and usually a quick kill of a low player will bring over a group of high level players out of congested areas (ya, you mr i only zerg people because is is the only way i can win.. same shit right? smother with lots of numbers/smother with higher levels... same shit)
if the game mechanics allow it, it should be expected to happen it is apart of the game
generally speaking, even the fruitcakes who are obssessed with their virtual pets, and virtual girlfriends, when they sign off, that is it.. it is the real world, important jobs, families..etc
get off this "oh he ganks players he is a sociopath" bullshit already, it holds no merit
Your tirade actually strengthens the position that gankers are indeed socially mal-adjusted.
To be clear, I'm not talking about someone cruising through an area, stopping to kill a low-level and moving on... I mean the level-cap maniacs that specifically go to the starter area to kill people that have absolutely no chance of defending themselves...over and over and over... That is very well a sociopathic behavior.
Your emotions after being ganked by somebody leaves you fantasizing, that the perpertrator somehow has a social deficiency, when really it's your own coping mechanism. This somehow puts you at ease that at least the jerk is somehow punshed for "other" things in real life as you go on with your gaming. You tell yourself "I won because there was something mentally wrong with that guy to begin with and I'm normal."
Truth is you can't put a gamer that ganks or griefs you in a box, but if it makes you feel better next time you are ganked then far from me to tell you any different. We all have our coping mechanisms. Things like the belief in karma. Just don't let it get in the way of your common sense
Comments
I could also note that 6.86 billion poeple do not play the game. See I can use numbers as well and they do not mean anything at all. Still the majority of people do not play the game so by your logic we can assume the game is infact bad! Is 10 million a lot? Well yes that for sure, well done Blizzard. Does it say anything about the state of the game? Prolly not.
In fact we only have to look at religion to proof that just because a lot of poeple agree with something it does not make it true. Someone has to be wrong after all.
To the topic:
I do not think it's about ganking a nuub, but the fact that YOU can be ganked as a nuub.
Perhaps because they are idiots and are unable to win an almost fair fight? I am just guessing here because I don't understand the mentality (or lack of it) that enjoys comiting murder.
Because the ones who engage in this activity aren't exactly the intelligent, forward-thinking types...
Your tirade actually strengthens the position that gankers are indeed socially mal-adjusted.
To be clear, I'm not talking about someone cruising through an area, stopping to kill a low-level and moving on... I mean the level-cap maniacs that specifically go to the starter area to kill people that have absolutely no chance of defending themselves...over and over and over... That is very well a sociopathic behavior.
Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic.
One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking?
The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
Sure, it's a mechanic, but there is a person behaving in a certain way using that mechanic.
One could say that the mechanic of a knife is to cut things. If I used that mechanic to go around cutting people with it, that would be OK in your thinking?
The mechanics of the knife exist, but my behavior and the use of said mechanic are unacceptable.
Stepping beyond what is allowed only by game mechanics, is that behavior allowed by the developer? They are the ultimate arbiter of what is 'ok' and what is 'taboo' in the game itself.
If the game developer allows 30 people to kill a group of 3 people, then it's 'ok' to do it. That doesn't make it a nice thing to do, but it's still 'ok'. Compared to real life, it's not 'ok' to run around cutting people with knives. There are laws that specifically say you shouldn't run around causing bodily injury to other people. There is a difference between a game that does not have such a law and real life that does have such a law.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Then use a game analogy. Gankers are like master chess players than enjoy beating and trash talking a 5 year old.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
They are not as different as you think. Both involve inter-personal relationships and behavior.
Your mindset may be applicable to a single-player game where your actions do not affect any other real people. When your 'newb-ganking' affects the gameplay of other people, it crosses over into 'real-life' since those newbs you are ganking are people that have paid 'real-life' money to play said game.
It's become clear that you just aren't grasping the concept here...have fun ganking your newbs while they last. Because of people like you, they won't be playing long...then it's back to the FPS's for you and your like.
I think this is a pretty good post, but I would probably argue that online behavours are not any longer isolated with no impact beyond the game or forum and are having an impact in the grand scheme of things.
I personally think for the majority low self esteem and anger stemming from an impotency in their real lives is a major driver for this kind of behaviour, but then of course we have the sociopaths of varying levels that simply lack empathy for others who have incredibly high self esteem and arrigance and see others as inherently worthless. There are other reasons as well, humans are varied and complicated, but ultimately it's the same drivers that traditionally manifests as bullying (or at least would if these people were capable of bullying others in the real world).
Griefers, and I draw a thick line between e-sport style competition and grief ganking, often say 'just because it's funny', but they always seem to fail to ask themselves WHY they find it funny. If they could do that though I doubt they would want to play that way in the first place.
True, I didn't use the best example there...but the concept still stands.
The question remains, "Why do people gank newbs?" They don't do it simply because the game allows it. There is a reason for them taking part in a behavior like that.
Sounds like the same excuse that every other ganker has. Just because the ability is there to kill someone who is WAY lower than you and therefor is of no threat to you (Because the game mechanics allow it) doesn't mean you have to do it. Most who do gank use that as an excuse for simply being a douchebag.
I know the game mechanics allow that in games with PvP. Does that mean I do it because it allows it? No...why? Because I am not an internet thug who gets my jollies beating up on people that award me no challenge and true fun through effort and a level playing field.
But I DO LOVE to hunt down gankers such as yourself. It's one of three scenarios when I do...
1. They get curb stomped, showing me why they go after low levels....so they can actually see what it is like to win a fight. Or..
2. They run like a coward.
3. Run like a coward, call in pals...THEN get the bean bags to attack when it is like 5 or 6 v.s. 1.
Sad really. VERY VERY rarely one doesn't run and gives a good fight.
P.S. Seems you should spend more time learning to spell and how to use proper grammar then you do Pking/Ganking. And no, I am not trying to be the grammar police...but you only prove Squiggie's point in his post when you can't even do the aforementioned things.
I think its suppose to be a bad substitute to sex, ganking that is. I appropriate bad behavior to people who are sexually frustrated or not getting any love. Not always the case, but it goes with the saying 'make love not war', or 'Im a lover not a fighter" etc.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
You are very hostile. You are right, I don't know you...but judging by your responses...I'd be willing to say you take personal offense to some of the remarks here becasue you gank, not just defending it. I know I personally would never get so upset about something I am defending....if I didn't have a stake in it, or have anything to do with anyways. Come to think of it...I wouldn't defend something I didn't have anything to do with in the first place.
And go to nearly any MMO now that has PvP or a PvP server and you WILL find gankers/griefers. To name a few..Runes of Magic, Allods Online, Age of Conan, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Warhammer Online.
This is the only problem I have with ganking. The continual ganking of people, just kill them then move on. There's nothing worse than, I'll say a level 60 continually ganking a level 20. They might claim that they're doing it to draw out the equal level people, but as soon as some equal level people show up. The person runs and hides, hell I've seen full groups of high level people run from 2 or 3 equal level people. That's how much they're afraid of dieing in the game, even when the only death penalty is a run from a graveyard.
So when most people say they're doing it to draw out some competition, I call BS. Most games now a days have battlegrounds, or you can jump some people around your level that are questing.
I'll make this clear its...BECAUSE YOU CAN
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I never said anything about them being sociopaths, that was someone else. Although I WILL say my ex is one =P. Just them being douchebags. And I am actually referring to those that camp gank/grief. If you get killed being in the wrong place at the wrong time once and they move on fine...live and learn. But if they stick around to purposely make it miserable for you because they can...shame on you.
Anyways, I agree that levels gets old. They should just make skill trees something like the Final Fantasy grids and let the players go with what they want (Based on class skills of course, not all skills in game). This would also help in PvP because people would be a bit more cautious attacking someone since levels wouldn't indicate their power. And make combat a bit more interesting and less predictable....IMO. And I personally feel making the player feel like the "hero" is part of the problem in some MMO's anymore. Never was like that in the beginning...you were just another face in the crowd and you gained status based on your actions and interactions with others server-wide. Making players feel "special" or like the "hero" is for console gaming.
To be brutally honest I would have to question the personality of the people who constantly cry about pvp mechanics in games which they do not actually play, far far more than those using said mechanics in such games.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
This is the internet. They are all guys, there are no women, so they have no women.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Don't you ever feel the slightiest disgust when you deliberitly attempt to live up to the less flattering stereotypes of avid internet users?
It’s a character flaw.. if you think it isn’t, its only because none of your friends will tell you.. but they talk about it when you’re not around.
This is the internet, there are plenty of women, you just dont know who is who.
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Most of my gaming friends are in relationships, some of them have played characters of the opposite sex, some haven't. There are no generalities that are absolute.
Newbie ganking created a lot of discontent in Aion originally.
I think as long as they have plenty of PvP available at low levels via instances like in Rift then the 'need' to gank low levellers in open world pvp is reduced.
However at end game levels they need to have incentives for open world pvp - e.g. great prizes for those that venture into the open world pvp zone.
Open world PvP is one of the things that can keep a MMORPG vibrant and exciting.
Your emotions after being ganked by somebody leaves you fantasizing, that the perpertrator somehow has a social deficiency, when really it's your own coping mechanism. This somehow puts you at ease that at least the jerk is somehow punshed for "other" things in real life as you go on with your gaming. You tell yourself "I won because there was something mentally wrong with that guy to begin with and I'm normal."
Truth is you can't put a gamer that ganks or griefs you in a box, but if it makes you feel better next time you are ganked then far from me to tell you any different. We all have our coping mechanisms. Things like the belief in karma. Just don't let it get in the way of your common sense