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Hope this ends the controversy
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World isn't black and white no matter how you wish it so.
Nobody at all believes that they really did intend to put that in as an option later, since it's in most of their other games?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There's a big difference in catering to vocal minority vs. catering to everybody.
Did I ever say that?
This is how it went down...
Bioware wanted to put it in (they do include it in their other games) but a discussion ensued and it was decided that for a game as widespread and an IP as well known as Star Wars it might be too controversial so they decided NOT to include it.
Then there was the outcry and the decision was revisited, discussed and it was decided that because of many factors they would eventually put it in but couldn't put it in for launch because the development schedule couldn't accomodate it.
The teams at Bioware have it in their games because they believe it should be there. It was probably one of those business decisions that swayed them not to (or lucas arts). They now realized that it should be there, that they made a mistake and that they would rectify it in the future.
That's my guess.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Spot on assessment.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
FYI, I am NOT part of that minority, and I totally agree with Bioware's decision. I made it known that I thought SGR should be in the game, and I did it VOCALLY.
how is this even an issue for a game.
Why don't you look at the Minstrel Shows and see if you can draw any correlation between how a particular demographic is portrayed in a particular medium.
And please don't say "well at least they were portrayed".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
World isn't black and white no matter how you wish it so.
Nobody at all believes that they really did intend to put that in as an option later, since it's in most of their other games?
Did I ever say that?
This is how it went down...
Bioware wanted to put it in (they do include it in their other games) but a discussion ensued and it was decided that for a game as widespread and an IP as well known as Star Wars it might be too controversial so they decided NOT to include it.
Then there was the outcry and the decision was revisited, discussed and it was decided that because of many factors they would eventually put it in but couldn't put it in for launch because the development schedule couldn't accomodate it.
The teams at Bioware have it in their games because they believe it should be there. It was probably one of those business decisions that swayed them not to (or lucas arts). They now realized that it should be there, that they made a mistake and that they would rectify it in the future.
That's my guess.
Too rational. I'm not buying it. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
bah i feel like vomiting.
I'm with you man.
I hate how so many people try to see ANYTHING as a "hate crime." It's really like we've lost perspective and nowadays media has to be created to appease all of the vocal minorities or it is racist, homophobic, etc. etc. It almost reminds me of this skit a comedian did where he was talking about his father who interpreted everything to be racist. He said his father would go to a grocery store and say: "Why do the black olives gotta be in a can, closed off in the darkness; while the green olives are in a jar out for everyone to see??!!??!" Obviously ridiculous, but really with today's crowd I think a lot of people would agree with it.
This is how I think "hate" should really be interpreted:
Physically or verbally abusing someone for being in group X -- BAD
Denying someone in group X freedoms or opportunities that the rest of society has -- BAD
Not having a "token" group X character or relationship in some kind of media -- Who the freak cares????
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I care less with every thread.
But I doubt that this is the last of them.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Says the guy with the character in his avatar from a game where you can have same sex romances...
Possibly the people in that group x who are rarely portrayed as anything but stereotypes.
if you are not part of a marginalized group then how the heck can you make an informed and educated decision on what that group should feel? I always find it interesting when people who are not part of the marginalized group come out and say "just deal". Until you actually know what it's like to be part of a marginalized, maligned and often attacked group you might want to take a step back and put yourself in another's shoes.
Now, having said that "yes" there are people in all walks of life who are "victims". They love being victims. They live for being victims.
They will take every waking opportunity to tell you about how they are victims and they will cry, scream, rant and rave until their victimhood is recognized. Their status defines them and they wouldn't have it any other way.
this is not healthy so let's remove them from the discussion.
Now, let's look at the regular every day people who are part of the disenfranchised group.
If they aren't in one movie or video game or "whatever" then not really a big deal. But when they rarely make an appearance then one might wonder. Especially if they are depicted as "less than". Again, see minstrel shows, or look at the whole Mammy and Sambo archetypes.
So let's take gays and lesbians and look at where they are in video games. A few bioware games and "The legend of fat tony".
I don't know of many other games that incorporate them at all. And if they are, do they fall into comical stereotypes?
So when an mmo from a company that is one of the few companies to recognize this lifestyle doesn't include it, it sends an interesting message.
You might not like it, they might not like it and in a perfect world one might say "it shouldn't matter" but we aren't in a perfect world, people of different cultures and lifestyles are attacked or excluded and it's still something that is an issue.
Does every character have to "swing both ways"? no. do they have to have a lot of characters who are gay/bisexual? No. But being pretty much the only company that recognizes gays and lesbians they should at least include one character.
Again, you might not think it's a big deal but you aren't in the particular group of people who is usually depicted as comical, cute stereotypes in best case scenario and much worse in worst case.
Now, you might say "well, if I was gay then I still woulndn't care". And that very well might be true. But there is a difference between making a claim based on who you are now as a person and actually being in a group of people who have to deal with hatred and bigotry every day of their lives. AFter a while it might wear thin and you might have a different tune.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What's it the gays always say? Oh that's right, you need to show some tolerance. You did hit the nail on the head though in two points of your post, and I really don't know how to look at it other than that. It is what it is. Most people don't like it, most people won't accept it, most people will never accept it. I have friends from Canada that are actually quite conservative who feel similar as I; they're good people who have my respect and admiration.
Banegrivm
Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
www.1stfistoflight.com
well based on biowares past releases about this subject. I can say it wasnt intended to be in the game, maybe bioware wanted it, which makes sense because they have put it in their games in the past. but the statement they made a few weeks ago said same gender relationships are not in the game. not we wanted to include them but couldnt because of time constraints, lucasarts, or ea, just they are not in the game.
verbal backlash from the same sex relationship crowd. fast forward to now, the song and dance has changed. now its we wanted them just couldnt fit them in with the release schedule. really for a game that has been in development for nearly six years you couldnt put in a few hokey lines like hey wanna play with my rod chewie or something like that which has been the equivalent of most of their other game, stupid little lines for relationship options. they could of done that in a day or two if they wanted to do it. I dont buy that load of crap, they caught more flak than they intended, and lucasarts most likely changed their mind on this subject and decided it was ok if kept small and not widespread. of course now it is too late to include it but this decision to change it was made recently, not a planned feature all along.
you just remember they are going for the wow demographic here, in other words the lowest common denominator to get the most subs. ea and lucasarts probably realized they were gonna lose a few subs to this so they backpedaled to keep a vocal minority happy. problem is this doesnt end here, these decisions are gonna keep on being made ona day to day basis where they are going to cater to vocal minority about balance issues, gear issues and how hard it is to obtain until you have a watered down game just like world of warcraft became. That is really bad imo because this game is already watered down much more than warcraft started out to be and is just gonna get worse. This wasnt a decision for equality like some of you would like to think, this was a decision aimed at getting the most subs. the hetero community doesnt want to be martyrs for their cause and they feel most straight people will just accept it and still play just like we have done in every other facet of life involving gay relationships. Hell im straight and would of just accepted it being in there and wouldnt of cared other than i dont personally believe it is right, but why argue over something silly like that, but they figure most gay people would get butthurt over it and might not buy the game because well they get offended over everything else in life, so they would probably be offended over this too and probably wouldnt buy the game.
guess what, many gay peopel did get offended, a few straight people have gotten offended over the inclusion of it, but no where near as many. so yes this is black and white, it wasnt done for any other reason than to appease a vocal minority and it wont stop here.
Thing i've never ever done and never will.ITs extremely gross to me i'd rather die than do that.
I call BS to the fact people are so bothered by this sort of thing in a video game.
true i don't totally agree with others choices at times and i'm not sure how big that the gay gaming community really is but it really doesn't matter to me one way or another if the company wants to do this for whatever reasons its they're game,they company and all. you either deal with it or GTFO.
i can and have tolerated alot of things in my life and gay people,and same gender romance and whatever doesn't bother me now people being STUPID that i have a low tolerance for this is 2011 people get over your parents bible thumping ideals of whats right and wrong and just let it go.
PSN-SlyFox5679
Xfire-Slyfox5679
raptr-slygamer1979
It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse.
Banegrivm
Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
www.1stfistoflight.com
I'm now on a holy quest to get autists represented in every Bioware game, after all Dragon Age had one. (Oh and Mass Effect, nearly forgot that one.)
I will not rest until at least one npc is a socially awkward misfit who gets friends in the end. It's time i stood up for this marginalized social group of which i belong to.
(Next at 11, people who give a damn)
While I am indifferent twards the subject, insulting people for their beliefs isn't the way to make an arugement viable. Also you are tolrenat or you're not, a tolerant person tries to apply that way of thinking for everyone.
That is kinda an extreme point of view.
In Bioware we trust!
hey do one better make a lead character or a companion like that lol.
PSN-SlyFox5679
Xfire-Slyfox5679
raptr-slygamer1979
I'm sorry if that came out mean and all its just i'm sick of this sort of thing being such a huge issue with people.
PSN-SlyFox5679
Xfire-Slyfox5679
raptr-slygamer1979
What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.
You are full of hate, you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.
Except that said group doesn't shove it in people's faces. Various people of that group do but they don't represent the entirety of that group.
And I'll tell you, I'd rather look at two men or two women walking down the streets holding hands than the myriad straight people making out in public.
What about them? Maybe I should say straight people are shoving it in everyone's faces?
Except they are not. Only a select group of tacky people. Of course that's my opinion. You might think it's perfectly ok to make out in public. I think it's tacky.
And no, this was not brought about by them.
Them saying how great their lives are because of their lifestyle should not bring about any more vitriol than some young engaged straight couple constantly talking about their engagement and how great married life is, etc.
And if anything, I see more about the "straight lifestyle" than gay lifestyle.
And what about all those families with children who shove it in other's faces? Brinigng their kids to events that their kids shouldn't be at, not quieting them down or reigning them in at restaurnts. Maybe they should be attacked.
Or maybe we can agree that there are always going to be tacky people who have no idea how to act in public and no sense of socialization?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo