Hope this ends the controversy

IAmMMO

Why bother? It's a MMO any relationship building and romance should come from the human players. Why bother with some NPC one in a MMO?

fansede

We at Bioware / EA will give some of you a real Expansion soon.

 

- sorry had to do it.

 

Anwyay, If this type of content goes under a sandbox type of category.  Would SW: TOR still be considered thempark now?

gaeanprayer

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by SlyGamer79

I call BS to the fact people are so bothered by this sort of thing in a video game.

true i don't totally agree with others choices at times and i'm not sure how big that the gay gaming community really is but it really doesn't matter to me one way or another if the company wants to do this for whatever reasons its they're game,they company and all. you either deal with it or GTFO. 

i can and have tolerated alot of things in my life and gay people,and same gender romance and whatever doesn't bother me now people being STUPID that i have a low tolerance for this is 2011 people get over your parents bible thumping ideals of whats right and wrong and just let it go.

While I am indifferent twards the subject, insulting people for their beliefs isn't the way to make an arugement viable. Also you are tolrenat or you're not, a tolerant person tries to apply that way of thinking for everyone.

Insulting people for their beliefs ceases to be 'wrong' when those beliefs spout hatred towards a group of people, sorry. That's like saying we should respect that some people are racist.

 

Not to open a can of political worms there or anything, but people take PC a little too far. An eye for an eye; if you are willing to judge people then prepare yourself to be judged as well.

 

But back on topic, it's not a game I play or will play, I don't think romances are really appropriate for a game period be it straight or gay, so all of this seems a little silly to me. I've done the romance thing in Bioware's other games and they never did anything for me; if they didn't come with special items/achievements I'd never have bothered. For me, it ruins immersion, because no matter how soft and supple those bodies ~look~, when they start touching each other you realize they're just hard polygons that don't move unless someone has animated them to do so. Maybe that's just me. I prefer the relationships when they're more chaste, prior to getting to the part where physical contact comes into play, when it's flirting and the 'chase', not the stuff that comes after. Until technology comes to the point where those bodies remain convincingly realistic during physical contact scenes, I'd rather they just avoid the heavy romances all around...it just ends up looking campy and awkward.

 

Completely opposite to real life where sweating, writhing bodies are a must, of course.

 

But if this really matters to gamers and it makes them happy, then more power to them. All in good fun, in the end, and if you're going to do it to appease one group of people then it's only fair the other side be shown appreciation as well.

Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

 

 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Banegrivm

 

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

Except that said group doesn't shove it in people's faces. 

 

That first little comment is all it took to make me stop reading the rest of your post. If that were true, gays wouldn't be constantly trying to shove gay things in peoples faces. Point in fact, just like how gays (the same ones mind you) kept spamming threads on the swtor.com boards trying to get Bioware to give in to their demands. Point solved. 

 

 

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by SlyGamer79

I call BS to the fact people are so bothered by this sort of thing in a video game.

true i don't totally agree with others choices at times and i'm not sure how big that the gay gaming community really is but it really doesn't matter to me one way or another if the company wants to do this for whatever reasons its they're game,they company and all. you either deal with it or GTFO. 

i can and have tolerated alot of things in my life and gay people,and same gender romance and whatever doesn't bother me now people being STUPID that i have a low tolerance for this is 2011 people get over your parents bible thumping ideals of whats right and wrong and just let it go.

While I am indifferent twards the subject, insulting people for their beliefs isn't the way to make an arugement viable. Also you are tolrenat or you're not, a tolerant person tries to apply that way of thinking for everyone.

Insulting people for their beliefs ceases to be 'wrong' when those beliefs spout hatred towards a group of people, sorry. That's like saying we should respect that some people are racist.

 

Not to open a can of political worms there or anything, but people take PC a little too far. An eye for an eye; if you are willing to judge people then prepare yourself to be judged as well.

 

But back on topic, it's not a game I play or will play, I don't think romances are really appropriate for a game period be it straight or gay, so all of this seems a little silly to me. I've done the romance thing in Bioware's other games and they never did anything for me; if they didn't come with special items/achievements I'd never have bothered. For me, it ruins immersion, because no matter how soft and supple those bodies ~look~, when they start touching each other you realize they're just hard polygons that don't move unless someone has animated them to do so. Maybe that's just me. I prefer the relationships when they're more chaste, prior to getting to the part where physical contact comes into play, when it's flirting and the 'chase', not the stuff that comes after. Until technology comes to the point where those bodies remain convincingly realistic during physical contact scenes, I'd rather they just avoid the heavy romances all around...it just ends up looking campy and awkward.

 

Completely opposite to real life where sweating, writhing bodies are a must, of course.

 

But if this really matters to gamers and it makes them happy, then more power to them. All in good fun, in the end, and if you're going to do it to appease one group of people then it's only fair the other side be shown appreciation as well.

 

 

Wow, I wonder how you would have felt if I were trying to be insulting. You're right, insulting people for their beliefs is wrong, just like what was done to me previously. Gay people talk about tolerance all the time for them. But I don't see much tolerance here for anyone who isn't a gay supporter and in support of the gay thread. If you think that means I'm going to sit here and let people just hurl insults at me and smile about it you're wrong. If someone can't be civil with me, I'll just block  them and not think twice about it.

 

 

Creslin321

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Creslin321

Not having a "token" group X character or relationship in some kind of media -- Who the freak cares????

Possibly the people in that group x who are rarely portrayed as anything but stereotypes.

if you are not part of a marginalized group then how the heck can you make an informed and educated decision on what that group should feel? I always find it interesting when people who are not part of the marginalized group come out and say "just deal". Until you actually know what it's like to be part of a marginalized, maligned and often attacked group you might want to take a step back and put yourself in another's shoes.

Now, having said that "yes" there are people in all walks of life who are "victims". They love being victims. They live for being victims.

They will take every waking opportunity to tell you about how they are victims and they will cry, scream, rant and rave until their victimhood is recognized. Their status defines them and they wouldn't have it any other way.

this is not healthy so let's remove them from the discussion.

Now, let's look at the regular every day people who are part of the disenfranchised group.

If they aren't in one movie or video game or "whatever" then not really a big deal. But when they  rarely make an appearance then one might wonder. Especially if they are depicted as "less than". Again, see minstrel shows, or look at the whole Mammy and Sambo archetypes.

So let's take gays and lesbians and look at where they are in video games. A few bioware games and "The legend of fat tony".

I don't know of many other games that incorporate them at all. And if they are, do they fall into comical stereotypes?

So when an mmo from a company that is one of the few companies to recognize this lifestyle doesn't include it, it sends an interesting message.

You might not like it, they might not like it and in a perfect world one might say "it shouldn't matter" but we aren't in a perfect world, people of different cultures and lifestyles are attacked or excluded and it's still something that is an issue.

Does every character have to "swing both ways"? no. do they have to have a lot of characters who are gay/bisexual? No. But being pretty much the only company that recognizes gays and lesbians they should at least include one character.

Again, you might not think it's a big deal but you aren't in the particular group of people who is usually depicted as comical, cute stereotypes in best case scenario and much worse in worst case.

Now, you might say "well, if I was gay then I still woulndn't care". And that very well might be true. But there is a difference between making a claim based on who you are now as a person and actually being in a group of people who have to deal with hatred and bigotry every day of their lives. AFter a while it might wear thin and you might have a different tune.

 

Ah the good old "you don't know how it feels so don't tell me what to do" argument.  The problem with this argument is that it can be applied to ANYONE with an opinion.

For example, do you know how it feels when you tell a deeply conservative and religious person that their book is wrong because being gay is okay and not a sin?  That person is probably deeply offended.

But you know what?  I don't care, I think that person is wrong.  At some point you have to actually form an opinion on things.  You can't always say "Well I don't know how it feels for that person so..."  Because what's going to happen is you're going to get two opinions that are in opposition of one another and your'e going to have to choose one.  My opinion is that no one should be abused or repressed for being different, but they also have no right to "demand" that their group be represented in any media.

Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong if someone complains that SWTOR does not have gay romance because it is a feature that they will miss.  This is much like me complaining about space combat being a tunnel shooter.  This is fine.

What is messed up is when people try to paint Bioware as somehow making a political statement for not having gay romance.  This seriously has nothing to do with it.  They are making a massive game, some things are going to have to be cut.  Gay romance is probably one of the first things on the cutting floor.

hardicon

well people that try to stir political agendas do constantly shove it in peoples faces.  hence the gay marriage debates.  hell it appears everyone in hollywood is gay or wants you to believe they are.  lets face it, gay is different, its not what is considered normal behavior so people want to show how cool it is.  just like elvis and the beatles when they first came out, wasnt considered normal, they were different, so alot of people supported them just to be different, same with rock and roll and im sure since the dawn of time there were a certain group or sect that supported things that were different, in our day and time its gay relationships. 

btw gays havent had to be kept in a closet for along time, its been an accepted part of society for quite a while now, so not like it just came out yesterday, and its been quite mainstream among the liberals for quite a while now.  sure there are some that hate the lifestyle and probably want people that are gay to die, for me personally and I feel for most people that are against it we just want them to shut up and get off our tv and go live life, im sick of hearing about it just like im sick of hearing about slavery from the 1800s but the naacp still love to bring up that issue also.  most people just disagree with gay relationships and if the very vocal minority among the gays would just shut up and get off the tv every other night then most people would just accept it and move on with their lives.

Sovrath

Originally posted by SlyGamer79

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by SlyGamer79

I call BS to the fact people are so bothered by this sort of thing in a video game.

true i don't totally agree with others choices at times and i'm not sure how big that the gay gaming community really is but it really doesn't matter to me one way or another if the company wants to do this for whatever reasons its they're game,they company and all. you either deal with it or GTFO. 

i can and have tolerated alot of things in my life and gay people,and same gender romance and whatever doesn't bother me now people being STUPID that i have a low tolerance for this is 2011 people get over your parents bible thumping ideals of whats right and wrong and just let it go.

While I am indifferent twards the subject, insulting people for their beliefs isn't the way to make an arugement viable. Also you are tolrenat or you're not, a tolerant person tries to apply that way of thinking for everyone.

I'm sorry if that came out mean and all its just i'm sick of this sort of thing being such a huge issue with people.

 

Your'e sick of it? Do you think those people who have to endure public attacks and scrutiny are any less so?

It will cease to be an issue when it ceases to be an issue.

 

Many years ago, when I was in school, my composition teacher (I lived in his house at the time) asked me a favor of sorts. A potential student who was visiting the school had his car break down and he knew no one in the area but my teacher. My teacher was busy so he asked me and a buddy to help him out.

After the tow truck came we offered to take the guy to dinner and over the course of conversation he let slip that he was reluctant to leave to come to the east coast because of his partner.

He suddenly beame scared from his slip which i didn't pick up on. I then remarked how interesting regional terms were where we might say girlf friend or boy friend and he from texas said "partner". Of course I was being a bit obtuse as I just didn't make the leap.

His eyes got very wide and he quickly said "shhhh". Then he said "um are ya'll open minded?"...

The look of fear on his face will always stick with me. Now, him coming from Texas and not being used to a more open minded east coast city way could be part of it but no person should ever live in that type of fear.

 

Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You don't have "morals", you have your own sense of morality. Do not dare to say otherwise, there is no objective moral that you have the right to declare true and absolute.

I do not preach, because I can recognise a desert when I see it.

Displace the guilt of hating, if that will spare you pain or discomfort.

Block away, my posts will remain here for anyone else to see.

PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You actually do not have 'morals' if you would advocate that people sit in the dark and shut up rather than feeling able to be open and honest about who they are.

You also lack morals for advocating that a specific aspect of one part the human condition be removed from view because it does not conform with your ideals about what that part should be.

"I have morals" is the code so many bigots use to try and justify their unjustifiable antipathy.

It's also hilari-pathetic how many people are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they'd feel threatened by mention of one which does not conform to their professed sexuality.

Myself; I'm about as straight as they come, but my initial reaction upon seeing two gay people is entirely to be happy that they've found a measure of happiness for themselves, and not panic that I worry if I secretly might be gay, and thus have to react with ridiculous levels of aggression or stupidity towards them.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

 

For example, do you know how it feels when you tell a deeply conservative and religious person that their book is wrong because being gay is okay and not a sin?  That person is probably deeply offended.

Nice try but you are barking up the wrong tree. Still, good try.

I would never tell a deeply religous person that I thought his/her book was wrong nor would I even argue with them. I know very, profoundly relgious people, of jewish, christian and muslim faith. And you know what? when I'm with the muslim I make sure that I don't do anything that he would find offensive. Especially something he wuold find culturally offensive. If I'm with the Jewish or Christan people I might even join in their celebrations or attend services. And I'm deeply agnostic.

So some people actually think about other people and realize it's just not always about them.

But again, nice try.

Banegrivm

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You actually do not have 'morals' if you would advocate that people sit in the dark and shut up rather than feeling able to be open and honest about who they are.

You also lack morals for advocating that a specific aspect of one part the human condition be removed from view because it does not conform with your ideals about what that part should be.

"I have morals" is the code so many bigots use to try and justify their unjustifiable antipathy.

It's also hilari-pathetic how many people are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they'd feel threatened by mention of one which does not conform to their professed sexuality.

Myself; I'm about as straight as they come, but my initial reaction upon seeing two gay people is entirely to be happy that they've found a measure of happiness for themselves, and not panic that I worry if I secretly might be gay, and thus have to react with ridiculous levels of aggression or stupidity towards them.

I could say the same thing about you, so I guess we're even then.

PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

 

For example, do you know how it feels when you tell a deeply conservative and religious person that their book is wrong because being gay is okay and not a sin?  That person is probably deeply offended.

Nice try but you are barking up the wrong tree. Still, good try.

I would never tell a deeply religous person that I thought his/her book was wrong nor would I even argue with them. I know very, profoundly relgious people, of jewish, christian and muslim faith. And you know what? when I'm with the muslim I make sure that I don't do anything that he would find offensive. Especially something he wuold find culturally offensive. If I'm with the Jewish or Christan people I might even join in their celebrations or attend services. And I'm deeply agnostic.

So some people actually think about other people and realize it's just not always about them.

But again, nice try.

That's just foolish.

Nobody has the right to never be offended; and to subsume your particular beliefs to try and avoid the risk of offending is just both ridiculous and cowardly.

I'm completely atheistic, and my religious friends know this. I have no problems both being their friend and holding true to my opinions on subjects. I also have no problems with arguing with them over the merits or lack thereof of their beliefs - just as they have no problems arguing with me the same.

If you're not mature enough to handle a disagreement over something in a way other than throwing a massive wobbly - that's your problem. If your friends aren't, you need better friends.

PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You actually do not have 'morals' if you would advocate that people sit in the dark and shut up rather than feeling able to be open and honest about who they are.

You also lack morals for advocating that a specific aspect of one part the human condition be removed from view because it does not conform with your ideals about what that part should be.

"I have morals" is the code so many bigots use to try and justify their unjustifiable antipathy.

It's also hilari-pathetic how many people are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they'd feel threatened by mention of one which does not conform to their professed sexuality.

Myself; I'm about as straight as they come, but my initial reaction upon seeing two gay people is entirely to be happy that they've found a measure of happiness for themselves, and not panic that I worry if I secretly might be gay, and thus have to react with ridiculous levels of aggression or stupidity towards them.

I could say the same thing about you, so I guess we're even then.

You actually could not say the same about me - because you haven't.

 

You've just tried to wave your hand and declare something without providing any support for it - which is a particularly cowardly and intellectually bankrupt method of argumentation.

 

Try again when you actually have a position you can argue, rather than ridiculous levels of existential angst.

Creslin321

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

 

For example, do you know how it feels when you tell a deeply conservative and religious person that their book is wrong because being gay is okay and not a sin?  That person is probably deeply offended.

Nice try but you are barking up the wrong tree. Still, good try.

I would never tell a deeply religous person that I thought his/her book was wrong nor would I even argue with them. I know very, profoundly relgious people, of jewish, christian and muslim faith. And you know what? when I'm with the muslim I make sure that I don't do anything that he would find offensive. Especially something he wuold find culturally offensive. If I'm with the Jewish or Christan people I might even join in their celebrations or attend services. And I'm deeply agnostic.

So some people actually think about other people and realize it's just not always about them.

But again, nice try.

Hahah thanks, but you do realize that by accepting that being gay is not something reproachable, you ARE saying that their book is wrong . 

This is a quote from the bible:

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) 

So I mean, if you say that being gay is okay, then yeah, you're disputing their book.

But I mean, really, if you believe in ANY other religion than theirs you are disputing their book.  The fact of the matter is that we can't all be right.  You have to choose what you feel is right and tolerate others.

That's the reason that I get annoyed when people say BW is "homophobic;" because saying this is INTOLERANT.  BW has a right to make their games however they want.  As long as they aren't being offensive to people, you really have no right to tell them to make their game differently.

If BW wants to make a game with only straight romances, then people should be tolerant of that.  They can ask for gay romance in the future, but they have no right to DEMAND it.

Banegrivm

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You actually do not have 'morals' if you would advocate that people sit in the dark and shut up rather than feeling able to be open and honest about who they are.

You also lack morals for advocating that a specific aspect of one part the human condition be removed from view because it does not conform with your ideals about what that part should be.

"I have morals" is the code so many bigots use to try and justify their unjustifiable antipathy.

It's also hilari-pathetic how many people are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they'd feel threatened by mention of one which does not conform to their professed sexuality.

Myself; I'm about as straight as they come, but my initial reaction upon seeing two gay people is entirely to be happy that they've found a measure of happiness for themselves, and not panic that I worry if I secretly might be gay, and thus have to react with ridiculous levels of aggression or stupidity towards them.

I could say the same thing about you, so I guess we're even then.

You actually could not say the same about me - because you haven't.

 

You've just tried to wave your hand and declare something without providing any support for it - which is a particularly cowardly and intellectually bankrupt method of argumentation.

 

Try again when you actually have a position you can argue, rather than ridiculous levels of existential angst.

I don't need to try, because I have conviction on my side. Furthermore, you're just being uncivil in your posts. For that, their is the block button. 

Sovrath

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

 

For example, do you know how it feels when you tell a deeply conservative and religious person that their book is wrong because being gay is okay and not a sin?  That person is probably deeply offended.

Nice try but you are barking up the wrong tree. Still, good try.

I would never tell a deeply religous person that I thought his/her book was wrong nor would I even argue with them. I know very, profoundly relgious people, of jewish, christian and muslim faith. And you know what? when I'm with the muslim I make sure that I don't do anything that he would find offensive. Especially something he wuold find culturally offensive. If I'm with the Jewish or Christan people I might even join in their celebrations or attend services. And I'm deeply agnostic.

So some people actually think about other people and realize it's just not always about them.

But again, nice try.

That's just foolish.

Nobody has the right to never be offended; and to subsume your particular beliefs to try and avoid the risk of offending is just both ridiculous and cowardly.

I'm completely atheistic, and my religious friends know this. I have no problems both being their friend and holding true to my opinions on subjects. I also have no problems with arguing with them over the merits or lack thereof of their beliefs - just as they have no problems arguing with me the same.

If you're not mature enough to handle a disagreement over something in a way other than throwing a massive wobbly - that's your problem. If your friends aren't, you need better friends.

There is a difference between having a discussion with someone and arguing one's point of view and coming out and telling someone they are wrong.

I have had many discussions with religous people about how and why I don't believe their system of believe is not viable. But that is in the context of that type of discussion. I don't come out and tell people they are wrong because I don't care about their opinion or belief system.

And to that end I just don't have discussion with highly religious people who are so dogmatic that they are going to storm out. There is no point to it and in the end there is no actual winner in that discussion.

So sure, I have my opinions, I am agnostic after all. and we should always have dialogue. But I'm saying that one shouldn't come out and just tell people that they are wrong or disgusting or crazy for what they belivee just because they feel it needs saying.

It's important to keep it in some perspective.

SlyGamer79

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You actually do not have 'morals' if you would advocate that people sit in the dark and shut up rather than feeling able to be open and honest about who they are.

You also lack morals for advocating that a specific aspect of one part the human condition be removed from view because it does not conform with your ideals about what that part should be.

"I have morals" is the code so many bigots use to try and justify their unjustifiable antipathy.

It's also hilari-pathetic how many people are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they'd feel threatened by mention of one which does not conform to their professed sexuality.

Myself; I'm about as straight as they come, but my initial reaction upon seeing two gay people is entirely to be happy that they've found a measure of happiness for themselves, and not panic that I worry if I secretly might be gay, and thus have to react with ridiculous levels of aggression or stupidity towards them.

Preach on man :-)

PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by PyreSpirit

Originally posted by Banegrivm

Originally posted by Exilor

Originally posted by Banegrivm

It's hard to have sympathy for said group, when said group tries to shove it in peoples faces all the time and act like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's why so many people lash out and act out in hate and full of spite towards said group. It's becoming more frequent because people are getting sick of it being forced upon them and told "you need to accept it" when many view it as wrong for reasons x, y, and z. When people don't want to see it, it means PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It doesn't mean SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES MORE. The later of which seems to be happening, so you get this vicious cycle. People are only just now starting to get more vocal about it. I've heard stories from gays and how hard it is. However, most of this viritol and hate was brought about by their community by pushing it on others about how great and wonderful it is in their opinion. So utlimately they are their own victims in the end. The majority of what's going on they brought about all on themselves. I don't agree with the haters, as hate is equally as bad and in some cases said actions are worse. 

 

What you call shoving it in people's faces is actually not hiding in the dark like yesteryear. Obviously you will see the slightest amount of visibility and normality as a conspiracy of the gay mafia to corrupt your poor, poor innocent children and somehow make them gay. For you, just a little is way too much.

 

You are full of hate,  you are in no position and have no moral authority to judge.

I have morals, which is why I disagree with adding gay content to games. You should practice what you preach and show the same tolerance you preach. The only person being hateful about it is you, and fortunately I can just block you and be done with it.

You actually do not have 'morals' if you would advocate that people sit in the dark and shut up rather than feeling able to be open and honest about who they are.

You also lack morals for advocating that a specific aspect of one part the human condition be removed from view because it does not conform with your ideals about what that part should be.

"I have morals" is the code so many bigots use to try and justify their unjustifiable antipathy.

It's also hilari-pathetic how many people are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they'd feel threatened by mention of one which does not conform to their professed sexuality.

Myself; I'm about as straight as they come, but my initial reaction upon seeing two gay people is entirely to be happy that they've found a measure of happiness for themselves, and not panic that I worry if I secretly might be gay, and thus have to react with ridiculous levels of aggression or stupidity towards them.

I could say the same thing about you, so I guess we're even then.

You actually could not say the same about me - because you haven't.

 

You've just tried to wave your hand and declare something without providing any support for it - which is a particularly cowardly and intellectually bankrupt method of argumentation.

 

Try again when you actually have a position you can argue, rather than ridiculous levels of existential angst.

I don't need to try, because I have conviction on my side. Furthermore, you're just being uncivil in your posts. For that, their is the block button. 

Classic evasionary tactics - you know you have no reason nor logic on your side so you wave your hand and declare the argument doesn't exist, case closed.

I refer again to my 'intellectually bankrupt' comment.

MikeB

We are locking this discussion due to its religious/political nature. Again, like today's news thread we tried to allow this to go on for a bit in the hopes it could be discussed in a mature manner but iti s clear this subject is far too volatile for our community.

Thanks!