Okay, so I really do not mean to rile up anyone with this thread, I just want to see how people feel about this.
I love Bioware and I love many of their games. I spent I don't know how long on BG2, NWN, and KOTOR; I really regard these games as some of the greatest RPGs ever.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR as well, but I can't help but wish that BW would have made more single player games instead of devoting so much time and resources to an MMORPG. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in SWTOR is the single player aspect of the game, the story. The MMORPG aspect of the game doesn't really excite me that much.
I worry a bit that the story for SWTOR may not be as "epic" and fleshed out as the story of a single player game simply because you can't really be the center of the universe in an MMORPG. Instead of playing as "Commander Shepard" or the son of Bhaal, you're going to be playing as "Smuggler" or "Jedi."
So in conclusion, I'm probably going to enjoy SWTOR, but I think I would have enjoyed the "I don't know how many" SPRPGs that BW would have made if they didn't do SWTOR much more.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I right there with you man. When Bioware first announced that they were working on an Old Republic MMORPG, which would be story-based, with full voice-over, and 3 KOTOR games worth of content, I was hyped. But then I started seeing gameplay videos and it's the same old MMORPG combat, with a watered down story. I'd of rather had KOTOR quality story telling in a spRPG, than a MMORPG with watered down content, and the same old same old formula we've been playing for almost a decade.
The problem is, judging by Biowares trend of dumbing down their games and snipping away at exploration, I doubt their single player RPG's would be that good. I think Mass Effect was their last great game. Dragon Age's story and etc. wasn't bad, but exploration wasn't great either. The story and exploration sucked in Dragon Age 2. There was less exploration in DA2 than in 1 if that was even possible.
OP you realize you are posting this on an MMO website right?
I'm ruined for single player games after playing my first MMO, EQ, back in the day. The allure of building a character and interacting with people at the same time just destroys anything available in a single player game. Not to mention most single player games have a small fraction of the content that an MMO has. This is a no brainer.
I like the character building pre-WoW and I loved the group cooperation in DAoC and SWG, but the majority of the content in MMO's is not even worth calling content. I'd rather watch paint dry than collect bore tusks and livers to bring to Auntie whoever to make pies.
Okay, so I really do not mean to rile up anyone with this thread, I just want to see how people feel about this.
I love Bioware and I love many of their games. I spent I don't know how long on BG2, NWN, and KOTOR; I really regard these games as some of the greatest RPGs ever.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR as well, but I can't help but wish that BW would have made more single player games instead of devoting so much time and resources to an MMORPG. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in SWTOR is the single player aspect of the game, the story. The MMORPG aspect of the game doesn't really excite me that much.
I worry a bit that the story for SWTOR may not be as "epic" and fleshed out as the story of a single player game simply because you can't really be the center of the universe in an MMORPG. Instead of playing as "Commander Shepard" or the son of Bhaal, you're going to be playing as "Smuggler" or "Jedi."
So in conclusion, I'm probably going to enjoy SWTOR, but I think I would have enjoyed the "I don't know how many" SPRPGs that BW would have made if they didn't do SWTOR much more.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I right there with you man. When Bioware first announced that they were working on an Old Republic MMORPG, which would be story-based, with full voice-over, and 3 KOTOR games worth of content, I was hyped. But then I started seeing gameplay videos and it's the same old MMORPG combat, with a watered down story. I'd of rather had KOTOR quality story telling in a spRPG, than a MMORPG with watered down content, and the same old same old formula we've been playing for almost a decade.
The problem is, judging by Biowares trend of dumbing down their games and snipping away at exploration, I doubt their single player RPG's would be that good. I think Mass Effect was their last great game. Dragon Age's story and etc. wasn't bad, but exploration wasn't great either. The story and exploration sucked in Dragon Age 2. There was less exploration in DA2 than in 1 if that was even possible.
Where are you getting information to support that the story is "watered down"?? I certainly havn't seen anything to support this at all.
In fact, Drew Karpyshan is one of the people working on the stories for this game....this would seem to shoot several LARGE holes in your "watered down" story theory, eh?
Okay, so I really do not mean to rile up anyone with this thread, I just want to see how people feel about this.
I love Bioware and I love many of their games. I spent I don't know how long on BG2, NWN, and KOTOR; I really regard these games as some of the greatest RPGs ever.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR as well, but I can't help but wish that BW would have made more single player games instead of devoting so much time and resources to an MMORPG. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in SWTOR is the single player aspect of the game, the story. The MMORPG aspect of the game doesn't really excite me that much.
I worry a bit that the story for SWTOR may not be as "epic" and fleshed out as the story of a single player game simply because you can't really be the center of the universe in an MMORPG. Instead of playing as "Commander Shepard" or the son of Bhaal, you're going to be playing as "Smuggler" or "Jedi."
So in conclusion, I'm probably going to enjoy SWTOR, but I think I would have enjoyed the "I don't know how many" SPRPGs that BW would have made if they didn't do SWTOR much more.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I right there with you man. When Bioware first announced that they were working on an Old Republic MMORPG, which would be story-based, with full voice-over, and 3 KOTOR games worth of content, I was hyped. But then I started seeing gameplay videos and it's the same old MMORPG combat, with a watered down story. I'd of rather had KOTOR quality story telling in a spRPG, than a MMORPG with watered down content, and the same old same old formula we've been playing for almost a decade.
The problem is, judging by Biowares trend of dumbing down their games and snipping away at exploration, I doubt their single player RPG's would be that good. I think Mass Effect was their last great game. Dragon Age's story and etc. wasn't bad, but exploration wasn't great either. The story and exploration sucked in Dragon Age 2. There was less exploration in DA2 than in 1 if that was even possible.
Where are you getting information to support that the story is "watered down"?? I certainly havn't seen anything to support this at all.
In fact, Drew Karpyshan is one of the people working on the stories for this game....this would seem to shoot several LARGE holes in your "watered down" story theory, eh?
From the gameplay vids. Compare the story from KOTOR to SWTOR. KOTOR felt epic every step of the way, whereas the vids I've seen so far of SWTOR aren't that epic.
Okay, so I really do not mean to rile up anyone with this thread, I just want to see how people feel about this.
I love Bioware and I love many of their games. I spent I don't know how long on BG2, NWN, and KOTOR; I really regard these games as some of the greatest RPGs ever.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR as well, but I can't help but wish that BW would have made more single player games instead of devoting so much time and resources to an MMORPG. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in SWTOR is the single player aspect of the game, the story. The MMORPG aspect of the game doesn't really excite me that much.
I worry a bit that the story for SWTOR may not be as "epic" and fleshed out as the story of a single player game simply because you can't really be the center of the universe in an MMORPG. Instead of playing as "Commander Shepard" or the son of Bhaal, you're going to be playing as "Smuggler" or "Jedi."
So in conclusion, I'm probably going to enjoy SWTOR, but I think I would have enjoyed the "I don't know how many" SPRPGs that BW would have made if they didn't do SWTOR much more.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I right there with you man. When Bioware first announced that they were working on an Old Republic MMORPG, which would be story-based, with full voice-over, and 3 KOTOR games worth of content, I was hyped. But then I started seeing gameplay videos and it's the same old MMORPG combat, with a watered down story. I'd of rather had KOTOR quality story telling in a spRPG, than a MMORPG with watered down content, and the same old same old formula we've been playing for almost a decade.
The problem is, judging by Biowares trend of dumbing down their games and snipping away at exploration, I doubt their single player RPG's would be that good. I think Mass Effect was their last great game. Dragon Age's story and etc. wasn't bad, but exploration wasn't great either. The story and exploration sucked in Dragon Age 2. There was less exploration in DA2 than in 1 if that was even possible.
Where are you getting information to support that the story is "watered down"?? I certainly havn't seen anything to support this at all.
In fact, Drew Karpyshan is one of the people working on the stories for this game....this would seem to shoot several LARGE holes in your "watered down" story theory, eh?
From the gameplay vids. Compare the story from KOTOR to SWTOR. KOTOR felt epic every step of the way, whereas the vids I've seen so far of SWTOR aren't that epic.
Ah, ok.....so you're basing your opinion off from videos posted by people who are trying REALLY hard to avoid releasing spoilers before release.....gotcha.
Well.....all I can really say without breaking the NDA is......you're gonna have to wait and see
From the gameplay vids. Compare the story from KOTOR to SWTOR. KOTOR felt epic every step of the way, whereas the vids I've seen so far of SWTOR aren't that epic.
Aren't that epic?
You should find vids of KOTOR before release and see how they compare to TOR vids.
Post release "here are all the cool gameplay moments in this game" and pre-release "teasers" are always completely and totally different.
You don't want to give away all the epic story before a game is released, that is just SILLY.
It's like putting a movies's ending in the trailer. No one would go see it, because you already know without having to buy it...
Okay, so I really do not mean to rile up anyone with this thread, I just want to see how people feel about this.
I love Bioware and I love many of their games. I spent I don't know how long on BG2, NWN, and KOTOR; I really regard these games as some of the greatest RPGs ever.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR as well, but I can't help but wish that BW would have made more single player games instead of devoting so much time and resources to an MMORPG. The thing I'm looking forward to the most in SWTOR is the single player aspect of the game, the story. The MMORPG aspect of the game doesn't really excite me that much.
I worry a bit that the story for SWTOR may not be as "epic" and fleshed out as the story of a single player game simply because you can't really be the center of the universe in an MMORPG. Instead of playing as "Commander Shepard" or the son of Bhaal, you're going to be playing as "Smuggler" or "Jedi."
So in conclusion, I'm probably going to enjoy SWTOR, but I think I would have enjoyed the "I don't know how many" SPRPGs that BW would have made if they didn't do SWTOR much more.
Thoughts? Opinions?
I right there with you man. When Bioware first announced that they were working on an Old Republic MMORPG, which would be story-based, with full voice-over, and 3 KOTOR games worth of content, I was hyped. But then I started seeing gameplay videos and it's the same old MMORPG combat, with a watered down story. I'd of rather had KOTOR quality story telling in a spRPG, than a MMORPG with watered down content, and the same old same old formula we've been playing for almost a decade.
The problem is, judging by Biowares trend of dumbing down their games and snipping away at exploration, I doubt their single player RPG's would be that good. I think Mass Effect was their last great game. Dragon Age's story and etc. wasn't bad, but exploration wasn't great either. The story and exploration sucked in Dragon Age 2. There was less exploration in DA2 than in 1 if that was even possible.
Where are you getting information to support that the story is "watered down"?? I certainly havn't seen anything to support this at all.
In fact, Drew Karpyshan is one of the people working on the stories for this game....this would seem to shoot several LARGE holes in your "watered down" story theory, eh?
From the gameplay vids. Compare the story from KOTOR to SWTOR. KOTOR felt epic every step of the way, whereas the vids I've seen so far of SWTOR aren't that epic.
Ah, ok.....so you're basing your opinion off from videos posted by people who are trying REALLY hard to avoid releasing spoilers before release.....gotcha.
Well.....all I can really say without breaking the NDA is......you're gonna have to wait and see
Well the only way to truly "know" is to play it for myself and I most certainly will. I definitely hope I'm wrong. I'm still disgruntled over the gameplay though. Not necessarily the combat system, since it isn't that different from KoToR, but in KOTOR you were a badass, killing groups of enemies in 2 shots. I'd Force Stasis them, and then Force Lightning and they'd all die. That made sense, since I was a Sith Lord, whereas I feel the power players wield in SWTOR is pretty weak, which I understand is done for balancing reasons, but if SWTOR was instead a KOTOR 3 game, they wouldn't have had to worry about balance.
I like that Bioware is making an MMO.I think I would have prefered a different ip than Star Wars though.maybe one of their own - DA or even better, Mass Effect
I would of preferred KOTOR 3 made by them not Obsidian. Either way, MMO was the way to go as their RPG titles are being dumbed down to adhere to the lowest common denominator9DA2) or made to mimic a FPS(ME1=>ME2=>FPS ME3).
Yes they've been becoming arrogant and heading downhihll since EA bought them.
KOTOR 1 and 2 are amazing games (fighting against Malak right norw) with tons customization. I bet ToR won't even have half of that.
I got it, Bioware is good at telling a story, stories are fine in singleplayer games but in MMORPGS they are easily leading to limitations which is never a good thing.
Since ME 2 Bioware is heading away from PC games into FPS like dumbed down shooters i.e DA 2, ME 2 I'm sure its cause of EA pressure.
So overall yes, Bioware staying the way they were would have been much much better.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
In case the OP hasn't heard, Bioware IS making more single player games. Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 3 are two titles that everyone is aware of.
Bioware isn't Blizzard, they can make more than one good game at a time and see a timely release date for their games (seriously, Starcraft 2 and Diablo III have been in the works for how long now?)
In case the OP hasn't heard, Bioware IS making more single player games. Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 3 are two titles that everyone is aware of.
Bioware isn't Blizzard, they can make more than one good game at a time and see a timely release date for their games (seriously, Starcraft 2 and Diablo III have been in the works for how long now?)
Can't speak for Diablo 3, but wasn't Starcraft 2 announced in 2007 and released in 2010? And SWTOR was announced in 2008 and and will see a release date around late 2011 or 2012. Considering there is likely a huge budget difference between the two I would figure those are about on par for the number of people working on either game.
I don't think the OP's point is that they can't make more single player RPG's but in their opinion (and one I share) the money would have been better spent making single player games than the kind of MMO SWTOR appears to be.
Shows how little people know about game making company's.
While lead programmers and writers work on multiple tittles at a time the grunds do most of the actual work ,the nameless faces that code and design day in and out like a random canning food production company does.
EA is a big big company and there is no lack of funding toward SW:ToR and other "Ionic" bioware games. there are mutiple tittles in the works.
Do you honestly expect me to believe that the resources devoted to SWTOR wouldn't be making something else if SWTOR was never made ?
Sure, BW made other games, they made ME2, they made a horribly rushed DA2. But if they didn't make SWTOR the resources doing it would have very likely made KOTOR3. Heck, it would probably even have an expansion or two as this point. DA2 also probably wouldn't have been terrible.
Yes, companies have lots of resources, but those resources are FINITE. Talented resources are also pretty rare. BW is not just some infinite pool of resources that you put money in and churns out games. There are only so many talented people to go around.
Yes. Mainly because they founded Bioware Austin, which they never would have done if they weren't developing an MMO, and they had to sell the company to EA to fund SWTOR which they never would have done if they never made an MMO.
DA2 was rushed, but I think that had absolutely nothing to do with TOR and instead had to do with them simply not giving themselves enough time to make it. They seem to have learned their lesson as they delayed ME3 by six months.
And as someone pointed out, they made ME 1 and 2 and DA 1 and 2 in the time they were making TOR so they haven't decreased their output of single player games at all.
It's kinda invalid poll imo since TOR is a mmorpg with fully featured singleplayer game(s) in it?
See I don't think it is though. It appears a great deal of the game (especially end game) is not solo friendly, which would mean it is not singleplayer. Like I said in my first comment, I think I would have prefered this to be a single player with multiplayer option rather than what appears to be a multiplayer with singleplayer stories peppered through out.
In case the OP hasn't heard, Bioware IS making more single player games. Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 3 are two titles that everyone is aware of.
Bioware isn't Blizzard, they can make more than one good game at a time and see a timely release date for their games (seriously, Starcraft 2 and Diablo III have been in the works for how long now?)
Can't speak for Diablo 3, but wasn't Starcraft 2 announced in 2007 and released in 2010? And SWTOR was announced in 2008 and and will see a release date around late 2011 or 2012. Considering there is likely a huge budget difference between the two I would figure those are about on par for the number of people working on either game.
I don't think the OP's point is that they can't make more single player RPG's but in their opinion (and one I share) the money would have been better spent making single player games than the kind of MMO SWTOR appears to be.
All of Starcraft 2 isn't even out yet. They split it into three different games, remember?
It's kinda invalid poll imo since TOR is a mmorpg with fully featured singleplayer game(s) in it?
See I don't think it is though. It appears a great deal of the game (especially end game) is not solo friendly, which would mean it is not singleplayer. Like I said in my first comment, I think I would have prefered this to be a single player with multiplayer option rather than what appears to be a multiplayer with singleplayer stories peppered through out.
How many singleplayer games have end-game? I mean, you can just play the story part and then uninstall the game like you do with singleplayer games, it does not even matter how the end-game is from a singleplayer perspective.
Comments
I right there with you man. When Bioware first announced that they were working on an Old Republic MMORPG, which would be story-based, with full voice-over, and 3 KOTOR games worth of content, I was hyped. But then I started seeing gameplay videos and it's the same old MMORPG combat, with a watered down story. I'd of rather had KOTOR quality story telling in a spRPG, than a MMORPG with watered down content, and the same old same old formula we've been playing for almost a decade.
The problem is, judging by Biowares trend of dumbing down their games and snipping away at exploration, I doubt their single player RPG's would be that good. I think Mass Effect was their last great game. Dragon Age's story and etc. wasn't bad, but exploration wasn't great either. The story and exploration sucked in Dragon Age 2. There was less exploration in DA2 than in 1 if that was even possible.
I've said it many a time, that I'd be more inclined to like SWTOR if it was simply a single player RPG with multiplayer options.
I like the character building pre-WoW and I loved the group cooperation in DAoC and SWG, but the majority of the content in MMO's is not even worth calling content. I'd rather watch paint dry than collect bore tusks and livers to bring to Auntie whoever to make pies.
Where are you getting information to support that the story is "watered down"?? I certainly havn't seen anything to support this at all.
In fact, Drew Karpyshan is one of the people working on the stories for this game....this would seem to shoot several LARGE holes in your "watered down" story theory, eh?
I think so many people suffer from "one to rule them all" syndrome.
I know I do too, at times.
If I want a free-roam sRPG with tons of exploration, I play Oblivion (Skyrim in a few months)
If I want a sRPG with great story and characters, I play a Mass Effect or Dragon Age game.
Would I like to see a free-roam sRPG with tons of exploration AND great story and characters?
Of course I would!
But I'd also like world peace, be able to eat cheese cake every day, and robot legs.
From the gameplay vids. Compare the story from KOTOR to SWTOR. KOTOR felt epic every step of the way, whereas the vids I've seen so far of SWTOR aren't that epic.
Ah, ok.....so you're basing your opinion off from videos posted by people who are trying REALLY hard to avoid releasing spoilers before release.....gotcha.
Well.....all I can really say without breaking the NDA is......you're gonna have to wait and see
Aren't that epic?
You should find vids of KOTOR before release and see how they compare to TOR vids.
Post release "here are all the cool gameplay moments in this game" and pre-release "teasers" are always completely and totally different.
You don't want to give away all the epic story before a game is released, that is just SILLY.
It's like putting a movies's ending in the trailer. No one would go see it, because you already know without having to buy it...
I never finish their single player games. I enjoy MMO's too much.
And I want to eat cheesecake everyday too.
No bitchers.
Nope, I never play single player games. I like playing with others.
Even when I buy a single player game, like an FPS that has multiplayer component, I just go right to multiplayer.
But Oblivion has voice acting by both Patrick Stewart AND Sean Bean!
I mean, for serious!
Considering Bioware is making like 4 games at once aside of TOR, I am very happy. Id prefer the mmo over all others though.
MMOs forever!
Seriously. Plus, change is good. It challenges a developer so they don't get lazy and can...maybe not with SWTOR, but after, innovate.
Well the only way to truly "know" is to play it for myself and I most certainly will. I definitely hope I'm wrong. I'm still disgruntled over the gameplay though. Not necessarily the combat system, since it isn't that different from KoToR, but in KOTOR you were a badass, killing groups of enemies in 2 shots. I'd Force Stasis them, and then Force Lightning and they'd all die. That made sense, since I was a Sith Lord, whereas I feel the power players wield in SWTOR is pretty weak, which I understand is done for balancing reasons, but if SWTOR was instead a KOTOR 3 game, they wouldn't have had to worry about balance.
I would of preferred KOTOR 3 made by them not Obsidian. Either way, MMO was the way to go as their RPG titles are being dumbed down to adhere to the lowest common denominator9DA2) or made to mimic a FPS(ME1=>ME2=>FPS ME3).
Yes they've been becoming arrogant and heading downhihll since EA bought them.
KOTOR 1 and 2 are amazing games (fighting against Malak right norw) with tons customization. I bet ToR won't even have half of that.
I got it, Bioware is good at telling a story, stories are fine in singleplayer games but in MMORPGS they are easily leading to limitations which is never a good thing.
Since ME 2 Bioware is heading away from PC games into FPS like dumbed down shooters i.e DA 2, ME 2 I'm sure its cause of EA pressure.
So overall yes, Bioware staying the way they were would have been much much better.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
In case the OP hasn't heard, Bioware IS making more single player games. Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 3 are two titles that everyone is aware of.
Bioware isn't Blizzard, they can make more than one good game at a time and see a timely release date for their games (seriously, Starcraft 2 and Diablo III have been in the works for how long now?)
Can't speak for Diablo 3, but wasn't Starcraft 2 announced in 2007 and released in 2010? And SWTOR was announced in 2008 and and will see a release date around late 2011 or 2012. Considering there is likely a huge budget difference between the two I would figure those are about on par for the number of people working on either game.
I don't think the OP's point is that they can't make more single player RPG's but in their opinion (and one I share) the money would have been better spent making single player games than the kind of MMO SWTOR appears to be.
I'd love to have someone finally explain to me how ME2 is a "dumbed down shooter" when compared to ME1?
I mean... I've played both, a hell of a lot, and the game mechanics are pretty much exactly the same...
Inventory, upgrades/crafting, and level up mechanics are different, and I did like the ME1 level up mechanics a lot more, but besides that....
Seriously?
Explain to me please k thx
Yes. Mainly because they founded Bioware Austin, which they never would have done if they weren't developing an MMO, and they had to sell the company to EA to fund SWTOR which they never would have done if they never made an MMO.
DA2 was rushed, but I think that had absolutely nothing to do with TOR and instead had to do with them simply not giving themselves enough time to make it. They seem to have learned their lesson as they delayed ME3 by six months.
And as someone pointed out, they made ME 1 and 2 and DA 1 and 2 in the time they were making TOR so they haven't decreased their output of single player games at all.
It's kinda invalid poll imo since TOR is a mmorpg with fully featured singleplayer game(s) in it?
See I don't think it is though. It appears a great deal of the game (especially end game) is not solo friendly, which would mean it is not singleplayer. Like I said in my first comment, I think I would have prefered this to be a single player with multiplayer option rather than what appears to be a multiplayer with singleplayer stories peppered through out.
All of Starcraft 2 isn't even out yet. They split it into three different games, remember?
How many singleplayer games have end-game? I mean, you can just play the story part and then uninstall the game like you do with singleplayer games, it does not even matter how the end-game is from a singleplayer perspective.