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Player run institutions and businesses in MMORPGs... could it work?
carrie01
Member Posts: 77
I would like to see a fantasy game (not a game like second life) where there are player run businesses and institutions. For instance, a player-run tavern, where you can buy a plot of land, build the tavern, hire NPCs, and use the crafting skill in cooking and brewing to supply the restaurant. Other players could then come into your tavern and buy your food and beer.
The same concept can be applied to an armoury, weapon shops, potion shops, etc
Player-run institutions could set local laws, work with current and wannabe business owners, etc and these would be ran by the prevailing guild in the area... For that there would need to be some kind of system where Guilds can gain influence in regions in the world...
The first problems I immediately think of are balancing typical fantasy mmorpg activities with taking care of your duties with your business or responsibility within an institution... The other argument against it would be that it would be too much like Second Life and that people just want to fight/adventure/progress their character and not run a city, as this would feel too much like a simulation game... Another argument is that vendors (which is what the businesses are equivalent too) are archaic and inconvenient for players and an Auction House has fixed that problem (but are AH immersive? What about the joys of being able to decorate the interior of your dwarven pub?)
What do you think? Could it work? Would you play a game with these features?
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
Final Fantasy XIV 2.0
EverQuest NEXT
Wizardry Online
Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
Comments
Well if EVE can do it in sci-fi then there is no reason why it couldn't work in medieval fantasy setting.
Now why no one is able or willing to actually create such a thing is another question.
you never played any of the UO shards or even swg in its prime-days eh..
Minddreams like these are nice but developers have stepped away from the simulation mountains and took the easy path downhill into the valley of adventure tours long long ago.
It has been done in the past to a smaller level. Games like SWG and UO had this. I think I bought all my goods from player shops. Every now and again I would travel to my favorite stores to see what they had for sale.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Idk if it could work or not, but I'd love to play an MMO with a feature like this. I could see myself setting up an in-game gambling hall and trying to come up with as many different games-of-chance as possible. The odds would be in the house's favor, of course.
As far as different types of vendors (armor, weapons, etc.) go, it could turn into a living, breathing economy that could also add another level of immersion, as opposed to ye-olde-auction house.
I know EVE has a player driven economy but I thought that only meant that all the items in the game are created and harvested by players... I'll look more into it
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
Final Fantasy XIV 2.0
EverQuest NEXT
Wizardry Online
Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
http://vgrpgblog.blogspot.com/
One thing I hate about our human nature is how we all become petty tyrants given half a chance. In a game where players control things we will have an imbalance of power and then they will exploit and victimize the weak like they do in real life. I have no faith in human nature therefore I have no faith in them to be fair. In a game like that people like me who work hard and playa ccording to the ruels end up losing. No thanks I pass.
I agree. You'd also get a bunch of nubs who wouldn't take it seriously and therefore ruin the game for those of us who do.
I agree with you to a point that human nature can takeover and turn us into asses at times. Look at LORTO AH its a fortune there to just buy a freakin crafting itme.
But the other part of me that like this idea is screaming HELL YA!! Id love to be able to setup my own pub now days and make contracts with other bussnies owners to help out. While trying to become a Econmy Tycoon around where i am at. Having that kinda freedom is what is needed now days. Weather it will happen or not is kinda up in the air. Best shot at it maybe if you are lucky archage next year. Worst case never happens or it may happen in 2015.
Still good idea though it would run the stinking npc takes everything to nothing outta everyones mind.
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Well Second Life was built around those principles and the only thing that thrived on there was porn, so it doesn't bode well :P
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
almost all trade in EVE is run by players. miners sell minerals. researchers sell blueprints. industrialists buy minerals and blueprints, and sell products. traders buy and sell everything. market works by setting up buy/sell orders, which are effectively semi-automated vendors under control of players.
as for creating laws, i'm not sure any game has gone that far. for some simple things, it can work (permissions and fees). but actually limiting "liberties"? puting characters in jail? forced labor? execution? i doubt there is much want for that in games.
there are player services in EVE that work on pure trust and reputation. for example, Chribba is one character that has reputation as third party (holds traded items intended for exchange; we are talking tens of billions of ISK and super-capital ships; easily worth thousands of dollars). then again, ALL banks in EVE have failed, all for scams (most outright).
imo, unless "law" is supported by devs, it won't work out between players. and problem with law is interpretation. there would be need for judges, and lawyers, and experts. and EVEN then, justice is not guranteed. just look at the real world.
maybe someone will get right kind of crazy and actually make it work. who knows...
@OP
sure it could. It was done already.
UO, SWG either had (now they are very old games so empty or closing) or have - EvE this kind of things.
I would love new game with that but devs and publishers don't wanna provide.
Well, here's the thing... The systems in place would have to be designed in a way where nobody could take advantage of the other... For instance, if it is your guild that has influence over a region, the game should be designed that the guild leaders have a responsibility to lead and direct development but at the same time, the powers of the "leaders" should be limited and this is easier to do in real life because this can be programmed into the game (in real life, we have checks and balances but those are within the govt themselves and can become corrupted). A perfect balance would be a need for hunters, harvesters, and adventurers to collect the basic supplies needed for crafting and the crafters help build materials needed to become buildings for businesses and suits for officials. I think that needs to be where it ends. Basically, kind of like player housing except you can own OTHER types of buildings and sell stuff from them + a political system (where those in power are limited by design). To go any further than that would create a lot of problems as others have pointed out... The game, imo, should still have adventuring and questing, but a player run economy with player run towns, businesses, and politics to make actions in the game more meaningful
It wouldn't be like second life where you could create anything you want (how would you be able to make sure everything is consistent with the setting chosen for the game?) ... But a game where you can have a stake beyond player housing...own different kinds of businesses... and roles beyond crafting... political roles, management roles, etc
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
Final Fantasy XIV 2.0
EverQuest NEXT
Wizardry Online
Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
http://vgrpgblog.blogspot.com/
On the complete opposite side of the spectrum, I think a random aspect added to the player side and a game whose design is purely based on discovering exploits to defeat monsters, find items, craft gear, exploit pvp weaknesses based on gear combos on a morphing evolutionary upgrading scale would be positively fantastic.
I seek to find the Perfect MMO, do you have what I seek?
Sounds like fun! Always love those road trips in real life.
Yeah I miss that. Unfortunetally Auction Houses killed this
I would really love if some developer incorporate player shops and would NOT incorporate AH.
It could easily work having both AH and player run shops. EQ2 ALMOST got it right. The key is, tax the convienence of having an AH with huge AH taxes. This way you could fiund and buy a widget immediatly, but also get the name of who sells that widget and later visit the shop for a direct transaction with no "tax".
In EQ2 this system was in place and you could make alot of money in a player run shop and expand your buisness by AH sales (your name will get out there)- Unfortunatly the "tax" was too low and most just paid it and bought on the AH for convienence.
I would love that too. I really miss the old UO days of local shops.
Imagine what can be done to expand this. If you have locality, and if you add regional resources where ores are more plentifull in some areas, wood in others, fields for crops in other areas due to soil, etc., and make everything have value to the players...then you can add shipping and caravans. A whole new aspect of game play as players run caravans, sail ship, and work out deliveries as a business (with NPC hirelings tied into it all).
And that can add to the politics, and make local communities much more viable to the game. Much more meaningful to the players.
Once upon a time....
It wouldn't work for me if I couldn't do it without joining a guild. If I had to join a guild, it wouldn't be a player business, would it? It would be a guild business, and only guild members would be able to participate.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I agree with this it would also need some kind of balance between the two. I would love to just run myself and maybe a few friends i find trustworthy. But not with a whole guild like running a shipyard would proably need that kinda thing but a tavern with that would over run the little guys.
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Anyone with the resources should be able to start a business. I just suggested relying on guilds to decide who is in charge politically. Say, a guild system where a guild has to do quests/diplomacy/development to gain "influence" in a region, and the guild with the most influence gets to set taxes, have a special title for the guild leader (so the community will be more likely to listen), declare war, etc... Of course anything (like a jail system) that can be exploited to abuse players should not be implemented and maybe there should be a way for players to revolt... If anyone has any better ideas for a political system in an MMORPG I am all ears...
Favorites: Vanguard SOH, Final Fantasy XI, Dungeons and Dragons Online
Future:
Final Fantasy XIV 2.0
EverQuest NEXT
Wizardry Online
Vanguard F2P edition (fingers crossed)
http://vgrpgblog.blogspot.com/
Yeah. You ever seen a guild get a guild city built, then reorganize? And by reorganize, I mean kick all its non-core members? I have.
Glad I wasn't a member of that guild, because I would have been tempted to hunt down the officers and guild leader and have a quiet word with them. Maybe see if I could get them to listen to reason. Everyone listens to reason.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I've seen stunts like that pulled, so I can definitely relate.
It could certainly work, so long as running the economy is a game and not soulless economy simulation.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Actually, I have been working closely with a comapny making an MMO due out in 2013 where I pitched this very idea. Some of them being taken into consideration. We'll see where t goes.
It will work if done right.
First of all do player run stores really need a special part of the town (but not player run taverns). The reason for that is that it is easier for the players. Walking around in the market and looking for stuff is really not that harder than checking on the AH. If however you need to run around all town and check in all houses it gets annoying fast.
Smaller player stores should just be a market stand where the player or a hired NPC sells stuff. The larger expensive store should be a mid size house with a nice sign and who displays stuff. And then there should be trading guild houses that are close to malls.
If you do it right it wont be that much harder than going to the AH or broker, but a lot more fun.
Player run institutions are a lot harder to implement really good. I would suggest a feudal feeling for the whole thing.
A guild should be run by a high blood noble (like in Lineage) with lesser nobles around them (there also should be merchants guilds and outlaw guilds). A noble can be sworn to one higher and have 5 nobles under him or her. If a noble sever the connection with his faction leader (king or queen) he takes the guilds under him with it. A guild pay taxes to the house above them and recieve from the one under, that creates conflict and stops the game from being run by one or 2 guilds. Also guilds should have a max number of players of around 25, that also creates conflict.
Taking land from other guilds could be solved by making the guildhouses into keeps that controls certain size of lands. So a conquering guild/alliance would first have to tear down the old keep and then build a new one to hold the area and install a noble in it to get the land.
After that it is up to the king to keep the law in his kingdom. Since other guilds including merchant guilds pay taxes to their king it should be in his interest to keep the laws and hold outlaw guilds and criminal foreigners out.
That is one idea at least, you can solve it other ways as well. Problem with it is that people in guilds will have all the fun and guildless people will be close to lawless vagabonds since they don't pay taxes to any king.