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World of Warcraft: The Modern WoW Player
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Ah the good old days when gamers were hardcore and the rest of the world was casual. But in today's gaming world, the definitive line between the two has become blurred with things like raid finders and two-player dungeons. In today's column, MMORPG.com's Joe Sanicky takes a look at hardcore vs casual when it comes to World of Warcraft. Check it out and then leave your thoughts in the comments.
With the new Raid Finder imminent in patch 4.3 my thoughts concerning World of Warcraft lately have been heavy with the gravitas between the ever increasing divide between “casual” and “hardcore” players. I’ve touched upon this before in previous articles but never before has the issue been such an honest-to-Old Gods slap in the face to the hardcore crowd. With the Raid Finder we may be on the advent of a truly new age on the MMO timeline, an age where the long held elite content becomes the homogenised grind fodder of the masses.
Read more of Joe Sanicky's The WoW Factor: The Modern WoW Player.
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Comments
yes teh modern wow player is here to stay, but that don't mean he will be any smarter then the old guard like you used to say. have a reason for each passing year I look on the younger kids in scholl and think,"why looks like each passing day childs are more stupid?"
well maybe because they are.
The absolute 100% truth is that the hardcore and former hardcore are just upset other people are doing "their" stuff now too.
I used to be one of those elites who thought I was better then your "average" player because I raided in Vanilla and BC.
That mentality kept up into Wrath as my guild and I "easily" bested hard-mode content like Sarth 3D.
Only achievements/hard mode content I wasn't able to complete in that first tier of Wrath raiding were Immortal (someone would always die during KT) and Malygos under 6 min or whatever.
10-man 3D? Done, 10-man everything? Done. Two 25-man achieves missing... I actually "cared" enough to check the rankings etc. on the server to know I was in top 3 Warrior tanks on the server, top 25 geared players over-all.
Ulduar hit and my 10-person group I led (Main Tank=me) rocked it hard, but our full guild 25 group just kept having issues with certain bosses and got "stuck" in progression.
This fact coupled with how much better my 10-person group was doing then the other 10 group and the combined full guild 25 group, there started to be a LOT of drama... eventually, guild broke up.
I still say Ulduar was the last "great" raid, though Icecrown was very fun and cool it was just too easy on normal.
Trial of the Crusader was a joke, I came back after months off, months after TOC was released and easily pugged it. Farming pre-current Tier raid gear was jokingly easy from heroics, etc.
Now?
I am actually quite pleased they are introducing the Raid Finder. The game should have ALWAYS had 3 difficulty modes instead of two. Having content for the 1% at the top (hard modes) and then content for the other 99% just doesn't work.
Easy mode (PUG mode) for peopel who just want to see it/experience it and don't really care abotu being cutting edge (what I've turned into)
Normal mode for guilds/groups and maybe really good PUGs to progress and still have that challenge/progression/reward system etc.
Hard Mode for the elite.
Would make it much, much easier to tune the content to the oppropriate level, give the hardcore their elite content and gear etc.
Fully 100% support this, recently re-subbed and am working on getting myself pre-geared enough to PUG Deathwing easy-mode when it releases.
Just to see the content, then I'll be done with WoW again until next expansion (maybe, depends on what it is)
This reminds me of SWG.
Before the NGE, even the SWG devs started to cater towards the casual crowd.
#1. They thought it was too hardcore for players to heal their battlewounds in the Med Centers. RESULT: The Med Centers used to be a place to wait in line, socialize, trade, meet new players, and ...heal. The change rendered every Med Center in the game as just another empty building.
#2. n00bs cried about the 10 min starport wait. The devs removed the timelimit. RESULT: The starport used to be the central hub in terms of trade and commerce. Again, just another place that used to be populated.
Ultimate Point: Devs are stupid. n00bs are stupid.
Casuals can still enjoy a semi-hardcore MMO. Dumbing a game down to "casual" does nothing but hurt the game.
Additionally -
I used to think I was better because I raided.
But in fact, I raided becuase I was a better player.
Big, big difference.
Oh look, another long-winded discussion about raiders vs casuals.
Aren't there enough multi-page threads floating around on every gaming forum in existance discussing this same, tired, inflammatory topic? Why create another one? Also, why make this one so biased in favor of the raiders perspective?
There will always be a spectrum of players in a game. With populations in the hundreds of thousands, or even millions, its a rediculous assumption that one niche of players has any more importance or entitlement than another. And yet, here we go with another "Us vs You" thread that neither side can win.
People who can spend every night of every week until dawn raiding content have always existed. In the same light, people who have life obligations and different schedules have always existed as well. So, in this regard, nothing has changed insofar as community makeup. Perhaps there is a shift in percentages, but regardless the playerbase is made up of many types of people with varying playstyles. One group does not by its nature make it more important or worthy of ..anything.. than another.
As was mentioned, its the developers that need to have fingers pointed at them. The players have always been there, but its the game designers who opt to shift content one way or another. Making everything accessible to everyone pleases the greater masses and means overall increased revenue. Its that simple.
So, can we put those stones and balls of mud down before the screaming matches start. This tired old horse of a subject just needs to be buried.
How many ways can you kill a dead horse?
Nah, that is just you confusing "experience" and "intelligence". If you think about it we did plenty of stupid stuff as well when we were younger.
But people seems to be more in hurry now then just 10 years ago, I guess that cellphones might have something to do with it, nowadays people want stuff now, not later.That has nothing to do with stupidity, even though I predict a huge raise in hearth attacks in the future.
1. The modern WoW players are here to stay, and they’ll also be playing all the new MMOs to come.
2. It is time to accept it and work with them.
1. Yep.
2. No thanks. If the definition of a "modern" WoW player is one who strongly approves of WoW's approach to MMORPGs since Burning Crusade, I won't be playing games that they like anyway.
making content available to everyone is dumbing the game down? what a bunch of crap.
when i take a ball, and go outside with friends, i'm doing exactly the same thing as people that get paid for it. i'm kicking the ball across the field. game is a gameplay. content is for everyone. best people get audience. and that's all there is to it.
@BadSpock your first comment has it all. Totally agree with your appreciation and your suggestion.
aaand this is why I PVP. Practically the only somewhat skill based form of gaming left on the planet, thanks for reminding me why I do it carebear blogger dude.
WoW has never been hard. Even 40 man raids where easy mode.
Please dont make out WoW has ever been a "hardcore game"... its always been far rom it.
Wow (I dont mean WoW), one of the worst articles on this page.
Dumbing down a game has nothing to do with catering to casuals or despise "hardcores" it means, making the game accessible for people, who are lazy, not dedicated and for some reason couldn't get into real guilds. Maybe cause their behaviour and dedication is extremely lacking?
This 800 pound game is the best example of what will happen, once you are catering to the lowest of the lowest comon denominator:
1. community doesn't excist anymore
2. crybabies will always cry till the game is as dumbed down as their CS or CoD or whatever this audience has been playing before
3. Raiding without REAL challenge is not raiding. Wanna guess which feature killed more guilds? Hardmodes or challenging raids. Just a hint its the hardmodes cause they are stupid and a waste of time. Either the raids are challenging or not if not, might at all forget about it, cause everyone regardless if hes dedicated, knows his class or willing to learn can beat the content = stupid
4. lobby game instead of a game. Yeah I think logging in hanging around in an overcrowded city waiting for instant instance popups is what MMO(RP)Gs should be all about too, no absolut not!
Whatever if the new WoW or should I say ex FPS player is here to stay, I hope they stick with WoW and don't pollute other games with their stupid crying for wowlike easymode and community drama cause they can't faceroll in real MMORPGs. If they want it easy fine, play WoW till the end of time.
Only wish just don't ruin OUR challenging games there aren't many of them outthere, so I'm hoping for some non westernized (note: dumbe ddown) asia games.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Unfortunately it is all about making money and there are alot more casuals than hardcores=casual play
Seriously, has the OP ever raided in Wow? Pickup groups just do not work period. If you want to raid you join a raid guild. Trying to hint that these raids would be available to the masses is humorous. Available yes, doable no.
This is how every single mmo should be. The next step is to take the timers off of dungeons and impliment a guaranteed loot system. People who work full time jobs, go to the gym, and enjoy other hobbies should have access to everything everyone else does. Period. Devs surely are tired of wasting thousands of hours developing end game content that only 10% of a server ever even sees.
I'm sick of relying on other people and their schedules. I want to play now, not in an hour, or when you get done in the bathroom... I want to play right now and I want to be rewarded for it. No one likes losing, and no one likes not getting loot. The days of cheeto stained nerds owning the games because they are willing to sacrifice sleep and never leave their computer are over.
U mad nerds? Yeah, u mad.
It weirds me out how everything has to be solved within the limited gameplay experience that is raiding. The ultimate quest is just about having content to do in an MMO. The real problem with WoW isn't the question of how to balance the same content for the HC and the Casual, but to add diversity in playstyles and just diversity into the endgame, so that both types of players can be used perfectly to better the game.
Hardcore players bring something invaluable to the game, which is their constant presense with their time investment. A clever game designer would harness this by driving them into the open(non instanced) world out there to make sure the game feels like an MMORPG for the newcomers, as the biggest selling point for any MMO is the community behind it. And hardcore players have always been the pillars to any MMOs community.
Casual players, on the other hand, are the consumers to the world, and thus the raiding design fits them perfectly. They log few hours a week to clear some content, and as they don't really bring anything to the game outside their subscription fee, it's alright to have them play their instanced minigames. So in this sense, I would love to have the raiding/dungeon scene tweaked to be extremely streamlined and accessible.
There are so many ways to expand the game in all directions redesigning old features for the HC playerbase. And everyone would benefit. And there are plenty of tools in WoW that can potentially solve it, that Blizzard has overlooked ever since the release.
Somebody didn't read the article!
To an extent quality of life updatest that make the game less of a pain in the ass to just use aren't necessarily "dumbing it down for casuals" as you say, but for the most part in games nerfing content is done for the benefit of the masses (sans changes to balance in competitive PvP games which might not be aimed at the low tier palyers).
Just because tha majority of gamers, as you say, don't have the "time or dedication" doesn't mean they don't want to have the time to do it, they might actually just not! Thus giving them easy ways to pug end game content is in their favor for a better expereicne, and Bliz can keep the hardmode stuff in for raid guilds to fight.
Just because things were a certain way in the past doesn't mean that was the correct, right, or better way to do it. In almost every scenario imaginable when society or technology moves forward its almost always better than before, this situation with MMO gameplay really isn't any different. There will always be people who yearn for the old ways though, even if reading by candle light would have been horrible.
Well sead this sums everything up..../thread
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Do you have refs and yard markers and announcersa and couaches if you just run outside with friends for a pick-up game? It actually isn't the same content in that regard is it?
If making content available for the masses isn't dumbing it down, why is that not only the stigma attached to WoW but the overarching theme of nearly all content discussions regarding WoW? Is everyone just crazy then and imagining this?
4.3 raid finder , is a "nerfed" already version of raids , so pugs can complete it
but this will work? im not sure
dungeons works because 5 mans are easy to "manage"
25 man raids in the other hand.......
25 average joes , in a nerfed raid version waiting for some1 to say how the boss works , wiping like mad and blaming each other.........
sounds like fun
If the horse is dead it technically can't be killed so....infinity.
A lot of Ex-SWG,AO,UO,EQ,DAOC players migrated to WoW. Guess what, many of them still play WoW.
Just like any Hobbie or Sports Recreaction you will have you Elitiest and your Casuals. How is WoW any different from that?
Some people will never understand that. Maybe they don't know anything besides video games.
It's like someone tell you in order to unlock the other 3/4 of the soccer field, you have to consistantly make 100 goals from 25yrds all with your head. If you miss one you have start all over again. Then you will be Hardcore and allowed to play on the rest of the field.