In all these anti NCSOFT posts, None of the reasoning ever showed me that NCSOFt was worse (or better) then comparing MMO companies... All the anti NCSOFT comments so far posted are more generic MMO problems then a single companies problems...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
In all these anti NCSOFT posts, None of the reasoning ever showed me that NCSOFt was worse (or better) then comparing MMO companies... All the anti NCSOFT comments so far posted are more generic MMO problems then a single companies problems...
I wouldn't say my comment is exactly MMO norm, they will cut a game off entirely without hesitation fast. No work at saving it, no support for low pops, no concern for those who paid for the box. Within weeks...
I could answer the above question posed by grimm as well with that, as EA has done a similar thing with E&B. They didn't with WAR interestingly enough. Though they did basically kill off mythic.
No folks I'm not saying that will happen, just that it's a distant possibility given their background.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
let me clarify what I was asking when I asked what your belief was based on. I want to know SPECIFICALLY what it is you think EA has done to bioware games. I would ask for the same about NCsoft and Anet, but lets face it, with only GW1 to use as an example, and Anet having been owned by NCsoft since before GW1 released, there really isn't any comparisons to be made to base your belief off of if you aren't going to take their word for it.
My question about SWTOR was mainly intended to gauge the general sense of whether people think SWTOR is being rushed out by EA. I really wasn't looking for an answer, so much as I intended to tie EA, publisher/developer relationships, and Anet together.
First you might want to read my reply that I wrote right after my first post toward yours. As I don't have a huge concern about NCsoft in terms of GW2 right now.
For TOR and Bioware as a whole I do, well somewhat. And that concern can relate to Ncsoft in many ways again due to past actions. For Bioware I have mixed feelings right now (not due to TOR) but just the studios expansion as it has occured. It really isn't Bioware anymore, it's something else.
With their current crop of games, I can't deny, they have changed, if anything TOR is more a throwback to their past design in many ways. ME2, DA2 I'm sure ME3 and DA3 will carry suit, they are not the same Bioware I knew and liked.
Not to say I didn't like ME2, but it was not the same experience I'd grown to love back in the day. It lacked something which was replaced by something else. And I very much believe that was due to the merger. Metrics, numbers, analysis, demographic shfting. All of these things scream EA to me. They do not seem to be what drove Biowares past efforts which rather seemed ambition and artistry driven before.
Because of that i feel over time they will degrade as a premiere RPG developer, which in turn will kill the company as it will lose it's core demographic. An entity like EA doesn't care about that. They'll force the Dr's out on their ear with a fat little check and be done with them, as they do with everyone else.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In all these anti NCSOFT posts, None of the reasoning ever showed me that NCSOFt was worse (or better) then comparing MMO companies... All the anti NCSOFT comments so far posted are more generic MMO problems then a single companies problems...
What did you expect on the interwebs? Unreasonable opinions are the order of the day. What you said about NCSoft is just as easily applied to SOE, Blizzard, Nvidia/AMD/Intel, politics, sports, etc. People have to love their "team" and hate the "other" no matter what facts present themselves.
Hell its not even just the internet, most of the people I encounter on a daily basis are completely irrational. Its likely that humanity has always been like this but that we've had no way to actually experience so many people's inner thoughts lol. Scary.
Seriously MMORPG.com, why isn't there more moderation on these forums? At least, don't give new members the rights to create threads. Give them no posting rights outside the new members area either, so they are forced to introduce themselves first etc. Also, monitor new threads more carefully to avoid duplicate threads and warn people who create duplicate threads. Emphasize the search button...........
Anyone who played Aion can back me up on this. Since NCsoft has their grubby hands in this one.. is it going to be another Spam fest *selling gold* nightmare that Aion was.
Are the servers going to be open to any country? if so we can expect massive bot/farming/gold spamming dooshes that will ruin the economy and possibly the game?
and out of curiousity.. how the hell are they going to make a gw2 bot?? considering the game's combat is completely different from traditional mmo's.. as in IF YOU STAND STILL AND WACK AT THINGS YOU DIE. which is what bots generaly do. They other types of bots' pat around a small area killing the same mobs over and over again.. u know what will happen? they will die because that d/e for the area will blow threw and rip them apart..
Also guild wars 2 is a anti-grid game.. and no competition over nodes and/or mobs so everyone essentaly works together.. also everyone gets thier own loot and better stuff from karma venders and probably crafting.. so there goes your theory about farmers...
as for gold spammers well.. time will tell but Anet has a strict u buy or sell gold your banned policy.. and generaly that verry same day. so i realy have no worries here
Anyone who played Aion can back me up on this. Since NCsoft has their grubby hands in this one.. is it going to be another Spam fest *selling gold* nightmare that Aion was. Are the servers going to be open to any country? if so we can expect massive bot/farming/gold spamming dooshes that will ruin the economy and possibly the game?
and out of curiousity.. how the hell are they going to make a gw2 bot?? considering the game's combat is completely different from traditional mmo's.. as in IF YOU STAND STILL AND WACK AT THINGS YOU DIE. which is what bots generaly do. They other types of bots' pat around a small area killing the same mobs over and over again.. u know what will happen? they will die because that d/e for the area will blow threw and rip them apart.. Also guild wars 2 is a anti-grid game.. and no competition over nodes and/or mobs so everyone essentaly w orks together.. also everyone gets thier own loot and better stuff from karma venders and probably crafting.. so there goes your theory about farmers... as for gold spammers well.. time will tell but Anet has a strict u buy or sell gold your banned policy.. and generaly that verry same day. so i realy have no worries here
Ofc gw2 will be botted, and will have gold spammers, not that i care one bit,bot is just anti ai,and no dev atm will make anai so complex that a bo can,t predict. Plus the real reason for bot is the fact that there is demand, which will always be there tbh. Still, played aion for 2 months after launch and dont see what's the problem with right click ignore, hell, even wow had a ton of spammers, dont see anyone bitching about it
i like seeing bots/gold farmers en masse in a game..it tells me it's not MY game. Best notice i can get, and early enough to leave unscathed. No one can give me a clearer picture of that than the yellow man leaving his programmed software to run somewhere near me.
I blame the people playing this type of games, whether or not they make use of gold sellers/leveling services/macro hotkeying. You are talking about games that had/have an RNG crafting system, open PvP, and let's be a tad honest, were all about my winkie being longer than yours, but you did sub, didn't you? ;p When you knew that competition being that high, and for purely bragging purposes, this could only be expected to happen..that those not good enough would seek other ways to be on a par with you? Is it not logical? But you chose the product. You mentioned Aion. And now we have a thread going on about a new game, of the same company, designed for the same type of players..
This problem is player's fault as much as it is the developer/publisher's fault. If players aren't greedy and impatient enough to buy gold from external sites, we won't be talking here right now.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Seriously MMORPG.com, why isn't there more moderation on these forums? At least, don't give new members the rights to create threads. Give them no posting rights outside the new members area either, so they are forced to introduce themselves first etc. Also, monitor new threads more carefully to avoid duplicate threads and warn people who create duplicate threads. Emphasize the search button...........
I've seen this topic discussed to death....
Hey Hitler, the rest of us don’t have the gw forum as our homepage, and haven’t read all 52 thousand post in perfect detail. So why don’t you relax, take a deep breath, go up stairs and have your mom fix you a snack.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
Anyone who played Aion can back me up on this. Since NCsoft has their grubby hands in this one.. is it going to be another Spam fest *selling gold* nightmare that Aion was.
Are the servers going to be open to any country? if so we can expect massive bot/farming/gold spamming dooshes that will ruin the economy and possibly the game?
and out of curiousity.. how the hell are they going to make a gw2 bot?? considering the game's combat is completely different from traditional mmo's.. as in IF YOU STAND STILL AND WACK AT THINGS YOU DIE. which is what bots generaly do. They other types of bots' pat around a small area killing the same mobs over and over again.. u know what will happen? they will die because that d/e for the area will blow threw and rip them apart..
Also guild wars 2 is a anti-grid game.. and no competition over nodes and/or mobs so everyone essentaly w orks together.. also everyone gets thier own loot and better stuff from karma venders and probably crafting.. so there goes your theory about farmers...
as for gold spammers well.. time will tell but Anet has a strict u buy or sell gold your banned policy.. and generaly that verry same day. so i realy have no worries here
Ofc gw2 will be botted, and will have gold spammers, not that i care one bit,bot is just anti ai,and no dev atm will make anai so complex that a bo can,t predict.
Plus the real reason for bot is the fact that there is demand, which will always be there tbh.
Still, played aion for 2 months after launch and dont see what's the problem with right click ignore, hell, even wow had a ton of spammers, dont see anyone bitching about it
I'm curious how a bot will know how to dodge/block honsetly...considering mostly all bots ive seen barely know how to kill things and move out of the way of damage.. Basicly you dont move around and/or dodge/block you DIE.. also i dont realy se the point of bots considering there realy arent much farming from what i can tell.. you cant repeat quests because there are none.. and the best loot comes from crafting and de's.(or personal story).. just done realy see where they will fit in...
I don't like the way NCSoft handled the Westernization of Aion and Lineage 2. Both had a lot more potential in the West, if they had been more willing to be more attentive to the wants/needs of the market. The way they tied NCSoft West's hands on Aion was very frustrating.
However, my over all experiences with NCSoft have been positive and since Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet and is a "West First" title, I'm not anticipating the issues I had with Aion of Lineage 2. I'm sure I'll probably have things to complain about when they westernize Blade & Soul, but anticipation and worry over that won't effect my outlook for GW2.
I've been burned way too many times by SOE to every buy a title under their roof again. EA has been a source of much frustration for me, but they still manage to somehow push out a few good games that their corporate structure doesn't manage to ruin. I'd much prefer if Bioware hadn't sold out to EA, but at this point, I have no concerns about Arenanet/NCSoft.
Bots are good for repetitive tasks like WoW's fishing, mining, herbing, digging archeology sites, grinding mobs and doing AFK BG. Thats why you dont see them at dungeons, raids, arenas and RBG.
Gold spammers are in every game in some form or another. The amount that it can be muted depends more on the developer rather than the publisher. So in this case Arenanet rather than NCSoft, so dont worry
Anyone who played Aion can back me up on this. Since NCsoft has their grubby hands in this one.. is it going to be another Spam fest *selling gold* nightmare that Aion was.
Are the servers going to be open to any country? if so we can expect massive bot/farming/gold spamming dooshes that will ruin the economy and possibly the game?
well iv barely seen gold sellers for the last year so... and the support seems better n faster
Aion released at a time when MANY games were plagued by this. LOTRO had the same problem in Bree.
Aion and these other games all (mostly) solved the problem.
NCSoft itself had little to do with the phenomenon.
However one problem NCSoft did have with Aion was accounts getting stolen and/or hacked. This could be a real concern as I know of quite a few people who got fooled by fake NCSoft phising sites and they had pretty lax security on the login stuff. They have buttoned it down some. But it is a more valid Publisher specific concern than the spam thing.
I have to agree Aion was a big let-down by NCSoft for me atleast. I was one of the first to get to 50 on my server and was on a heavy-raiding/pvping guild. Back then the servers were filled with bots it was allmost unbarable to watch. They even had to ban a whole alliance from the Elyos because 90% of them bot-ed they items and were even selling for real money. When they did that (even if it was the absolute correct way) left Abyss from huge fights, to allmost 1-2 skirmishes u could find at best.
The game died very fast for me and it was a pitty because it was a good designed game overall even if it was a traditional "chinese grinding" game it was fun.
Related to NCSoft's implication in GW2, even with the initial fail of Aion, they did fix a big majority of issues they had. They are one of the companies with the largest MMO exeperience out there. Just combine Lineage 2 and Aion together and u have more experience then 90% of the other firms put together, and these are just 2 of their MMO's.
I am 100% positive that together with ANet this game won't have any issues. They are putting to much effor and heart into this game...to mutch on the line to let imperfections pass and they are aiming for an "as perfect" game as possible at the moment. If there are problems and i am sure there will be, it's imposible to make something absolute perfect, i am sure they will fix it very fast. I say it's imposible to make something perfect because u can never forsee every bad part of something till u mass-test it and this means BEYOND beta..means LIVE.
Take GW1 for ex...yes there have been reports of botters and whatever...but how long did they survive? it was almost an instant kill...
I'm curious how a bot will know how to dodge/block honsetly...considering mostly all bots ive seen barely know how to kill things and move out of the way of damage.. Basicly you dont move around and/or dodge/block you DIE.. also i dont realy se the point of bots considering there realy arent much farming from what i can tell.. you cant repeat quests because there are none.. and the best loot comes from crafting and de's.(or personal story).. just done realy see where they will fit in...
I've seen bots so good that you can barelly tell they aren't human, how can you dodge stuff? You only have to find a mob that doesn't do anything extra ordinary, and has some special abilitie on a cast time, bot sees cast time and dodges, something as simple as that.
I've seen a bot in WoW that would pick 10-15 mobs in one area kite them and kill them all at once proceeding to loot everything, when he had full bags he would pop jeeves (portable vendor) and sell the trash.
As for the loots or whatever, you have crafting, thats all they need.
Believe it or not, there are enough ppl that don't like to do any crafting at all, because lets be honest, not everyone likes to go pick up 100 ore, and if the bots dropped the price on the market with their overflow its probably better to just buy it of AH, and then theres ppl who don't even have the gold to buy this and don't want to farm the gold, so they buy it from a website, and the circlejerk continues
Comments
In all these anti NCSOFT posts, None of the reasoning ever showed me that NCSOFt was worse (or better) then comparing MMO companies... All the anti NCSOFT comments so far posted are more generic MMO problems then a single companies problems...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I wouldn't say my comment is exactly MMO norm, they will cut a game off entirely without hesitation fast. No work at saving it, no support for low pops, no concern for those who paid for the box. Within weeks...
I could answer the above question posed by grimm as well with that, as EA has done a similar thing with E&B. They didn't with WAR interestingly enough. Though they did basically kill off mythic.
No folks I'm not saying that will happen, just that it's a distant possibility given their background.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First you might want to read my reply that I wrote right after my first post toward yours. As I don't have a huge concern about NCsoft in terms of GW2 right now.
For TOR and Bioware as a whole I do, well somewhat. And that concern can relate to Ncsoft in many ways again due to past actions. For Bioware I have mixed feelings right now (not due to TOR) but just the studios expansion as it has occured. It really isn't Bioware anymore, it's something else.
With their current crop of games, I can't deny, they have changed, if anything TOR is more a throwback to their past design in many ways. ME2, DA2 I'm sure ME3 and DA3 will carry suit, they are not the same Bioware I knew and liked.
Not to say I didn't like ME2, but it was not the same experience I'd grown to love back in the day. It lacked something which was replaced by something else. And I very much believe that was due to the merger. Metrics, numbers, analysis, demographic shfting. All of these things scream EA to me. They do not seem to be what drove Biowares past efforts which rather seemed ambition and artistry driven before.
Because of that i feel over time they will degrade as a premiere RPG developer, which in turn will kill the company as it will lose it's core demographic. An entity like EA doesn't care about that. They'll force the Dr's out on their ear with a fat little check and be done with them, as they do with everyone else.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What did you expect on the interwebs? Unreasonable opinions are the order of the day. What you said about NCSoft is just as easily applied to SOE, Blizzard, Nvidia/AMD/Intel, politics, sports, etc. People have to love their "team" and hate the "other" no matter what facts present themselves.
Hell its not even just the internet, most of the people I encounter on a daily basis are completely irrational. Its likely that humanity has always been like this but that we've had no way to actually experience so many people's inner thoughts lol. Scary.
The only exposure I've had to NCsoft has been through GW1 and CoX and both have been very positive experiences.
Seriously MMORPG.com, why isn't there more moderation on these forums? At least, don't give new members the rights to create threads. Give them no posting rights outside the new members area either, so they are forced to introduce themselves first etc. Also, monitor new threads more carefully to avoid duplicate threads and warn people who create duplicate threads. Emphasize the search button...........
I've seen this topic discussed to death....
Why ppl have problem with NCSoft as publisher and not with EA or Activision ?
and out of curiousity.. how the hell are they going to make a gw2 bot?? considering the game's combat is completely different from traditional mmo's.. as in IF YOU STAND STILL AND WACK AT THINGS YOU DIE. which is what bots generaly do. They other types of bots' pat around a small area killing the same mobs over and over again.. u know what will happen? they will die because that d/e for the area will blow threw and rip them apart..
Also guild wars 2 is a anti-grid game.. and no competition over nodes and/or mobs so everyone essentaly works together.. also everyone gets thier own loot and better stuff from karma venders and probably crafting.. so there goes your theory about farmers...
as for gold spammers well.. time will tell but Anet has a strict u buy or sell gold your banned policy.. and generaly that verry same day. so i realy have no worries here
Plus the real reason for bot is the fact that there is demand, which will always be there tbh.
Still, played aion for 2 months after launch and dont see what's the problem with right click ignore, hell, even wow had a ton of spammers, dont see anyone bitching about it
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
i like seeing bots/gold farmers en masse in a game..it tells me it's not MY game. Best notice i can get, and early enough to leave unscathed. No one can give me a clearer picture of that than the yellow man leaving his programmed software to run somewhere near me.
I blame the people playing this type of games, whether or not they make use of gold sellers/leveling services/macro hotkeying. You are talking about games that had/have an RNG crafting system, open PvP, and let's be a tad honest, were all about my winkie being longer than yours, but you did sub, didn't you? ;p When you knew that competition being that high, and for purely bragging purposes, this could only be expected to happen..that those not good enough would seek other ways to be on a par with you? Is it not logical? But you chose the product. You mentioned Aion. And now we have a thread going on about a new game, of the same company, designed for the same type of players..
Deja vue anyone? no?...ah well, do have fun
Notice the tall guy.
Life IS Feudal
Hahaha, yes.
SexuaLobster's Grease Portal
As much as I hate boting and gold farming/selling
This problem is player's fault as much as it is the developer/publisher's fault. If players aren't greedy and impatient enough to buy gold from external sites, we won't be talking here right now.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Hey Hitler, the rest of us don’t have the gw forum as our homepage, and haven’t read all 52 thousand post in perfect detail. So why don’t you relax, take a deep breath, go up stairs and have your mom fix you a snack.
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
www.CeaselessGuild.com
I'm curious how a bot will know how to dodge/block honsetly...considering mostly all bots ive seen barely know how to kill things and move out of the way of damage.. Basicly you dont move around and/or dodge/block you DIE.. also i dont realy se the point of bots considering there realy arent much farming from what i can tell.. you cant repeat quests because there are none.. and the best loot comes from crafting and de's.(or personal story).. just done realy see where they will fit in...
I don't like the way NCSoft handled the Westernization of Aion and Lineage 2. Both had a lot more potential in the West, if they had been more willing to be more attentive to the wants/needs of the market. The way they tied NCSoft West's hands on Aion was very frustrating.
However, my over all experiences with NCSoft have been positive and since Guild Wars 2 is Arenanet and is a "West First" title, I'm not anticipating the issues I had with Aion of Lineage 2. I'm sure I'll probably have things to complain about when they westernize Blade & Soul, but anticipation and worry over that won't effect my outlook for GW2.
I've been burned way too many times by SOE to every buy a title under their roof again. EA has been a source of much frustration for me, but they still manage to somehow push out a few good games that their corporate structure doesn't manage to ruin. I'd much prefer if Bioware hadn't sold out to EA, but at this point, I have no concerns about Arenanet/NCSoft.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
NCsoft are a great company, they are still updating lineage 2 regularly and dont charge anything for expansions.
Bots are good for repetitive tasks like WoW's fishing, mining, herbing, digging archeology sites, grinding mobs and doing AFK BG. Thats why you dont see them at dungeons, raids, arenas and RBG.
Gold spammers are in every game in some form or another. The amount that it can be muted depends more on the developer rather than the publisher. So in this case Arenanet rather than NCSoft, so dont worry
well iv barely seen gold sellers for the last year so... and the support seems better n faster
I'm far from concerned. Their customer service has been pretty good with me and they are much better than the EA alternative.
better than blizzards support thats for sure.
Aion released at a time when MANY games were plagued by this. LOTRO had the same problem in Bree.
Aion and these other games all (mostly) solved the problem.
NCSoft itself had little to do with the phenomenon.
However one problem NCSoft did have with Aion was accounts getting stolen and/or hacked. This could be a real concern as I know of quite a few people who got fooled by fake NCSoft phising sites and they had pretty lax security on the login stuff. They have buttoned it down some. But it is a more valid Publisher specific concern than the spam thing.
I have to agree Aion was a big let-down by NCSoft for me atleast. I was one of the first to get to 50 on my server and was on a heavy-raiding/pvping guild. Back then the servers were filled with bots it was allmost unbarable to watch. They even had to ban a whole alliance from the Elyos because 90% of them bot-ed they items and were even selling for real money. When they did that (even if it was the absolute correct way) left Abyss from huge fights, to allmost 1-2 skirmishes u could find at best.
The game died very fast for me and it was a pitty because it was a good designed game overall even if it was a traditional "chinese grinding" game it was fun.
Related to NCSoft's implication in GW2, even with the initial fail of Aion, they did fix a big majority of issues they had. They are one of the companies with the largest MMO exeperience out there. Just combine Lineage 2 and Aion together and u have more experience then 90% of the other firms put together, and these are just 2 of their MMO's.
I am 100% positive that together with ANet this game won't have any issues. They are putting to much effor and heart into this game...to mutch on the line to let imperfections pass and they are aiming for an "as perfect" game as possible at the moment. If there are problems and i am sure there will be, it's imposible to make something absolute perfect, i am sure they will fix it very fast. I say it's imposible to make something perfect because u can never forsee every bad part of something till u mass-test it and this means BEYOND beta..means LIVE.
Take GW1 for ex...yes there have been reports of botters and whatever...but how long did they survive? it was almost an instant kill...
I've seen bots so good that you can barelly tell they aren't human, how can you dodge stuff? You only have to find a mob that doesn't do anything extra ordinary, and has some special abilitie on a cast time, bot sees cast time and dodges, something as simple as that.
I've seen a bot in WoW that would pick 10-15 mobs in one area kite them and kill them all at once proceeding to loot everything, when he had full bags he would pop jeeves (portable vendor) and sell the trash.
As for the loots or whatever, you have crafting, thats all they need.
Believe it or not, there are enough ppl that don't like to do any crafting at all, because lets be honest, not everyone likes to go pick up 100 ore, and if the bots dropped the price on the market with their overflow its probably better to just buy it of AH, and then theres ppl who don't even have the gold to buy this and don't want to farm the gold, so they buy it from a website, and the circlejerk continues
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."