Is SWTOR going to be another gear grinder WOW-Like?

heimdall22

Judging by all of the similiarities with WoW:

1) Quest based leveliing with loads of dungeons (Flashpoints) for low lvls.

2) Raids (Operations) as a form of endgame

3) Skill trees being almost the same as wow (2x3 per class as far as I'm aware), points acquired by lvls to spend on

4) PvP organized in form of Battlegrounds (Warfronts)

5) Pretty similiar combat mechanics.

Do you think that SWTOR will turn out to be almost same grinder and treadmill as WoW, with huge emphasis on gear or it will allow all kind of players participate in the endgame (PvP'ers, Crafters, Soloers, Raiders) therefore more "skill" than "gear dependant?

Saxx0n

yes

Fratman

 The gameplay appears to be identical to WoW once you hit max level. The epic gear is even purple.

DaShnipa

Yup it'll be a gear grinder, all themeparks are. Oddly enough I'm ok with this, guess that puts me firmly in the star wars fanboy seat

Zaush

It looks to me like it falls in the middle somewhere. From the info you will be able to mod your armor, robes and weapons, so y aren't constantly grinding new stuff, but high level context reaps high level rewards. But It also doesn't appear that end game is reserved for power levelers or hardcore gamers. The entire game is built for casual players for the most part, and the KTOR single player rpg crowd, so I don't expect a steep curve for end game.

Rusty715

I voted yes also. Someone someday will build a better mousetrap but in the meantime, this is all endgame is in MMO's. Until more quests and levels are added what is there besides gear to play for? Not defending it , just asking.

Angier2758

Most likely yes.... but most of your reasons have nothing to do with it being a gear grinder.... gear grinders were there before WoW.

Now if skill does triumph over gear it wouldn't be an MMORPG ....unless they equalized gear for pvp (which would be cool, but it would probably turn off a lot of hardcore players).

 

Were you expecting it to not be a gear grind? Or was this a troll question?

the420kid

its no mystery that star wars TOR has model itself after the monster known as WoW.  They plan to offer the identical loot treadmill style of end game content consisting of solo leveling followed by 5 man instaces and followed by raid content using tiers of gear identical to WoW which really isnt a bad idea if they want to offer wow players a new experience in a style they love this is a good way to do it.

I am sure many WoW nerds will love TOR as it will feel very similiar and will take only moments for them to feel at home with the controls / combat.  This isnt a bad thing as they are modeling there game after the most successful online game in history which really isnt a bad idea.

Unshra

Originally posted by heimdall22

Judging by all of the similiarities with WoW:

1) Quest based leveliing with loads of dungeons (Flashpoints) for low lvls.

2) Raids (Operations) as a form of endgame

3) Skill trees being almost the same as wow (2x3 per class as far as I'm aware), points acquired by lvls to spend on

4) PvP organized in form of Battlegrounds (Warfronts)

5) Pretty similiar combat mechanics.

Do you think that SWTOR will turn out to be almost same grinder and treadmill as WoW, with huge emphasis on gear or it will allow all kind of players participate in the endgame (PvP'ers, Crafters, Soloers, Raiders) therefore more "skill" than "gear dependant?

Seeing that the developers have said that it's about gear... yes it will be about gear.

BadSpock

Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.

Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.

End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.

There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.

 

azmundai

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Originally posted by BadSpock
Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.
Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.
End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.
There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.
 

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maybe i havent seen as much info, but the world pvp is 1 planet? or even just part of 1 planet isn't it? Essentially Wintergrasp 3.0? And Rift only had 4 or 5 BGs at release. Wow had even less (actually, I think .. ironically, wow started out with 3 BGs when they added them). I forget what other games had, but 3 BGs is 3 too many imo =P ... at least unless somehow they make them fun, which is possible, but .. if I had to base what I think off of what I've experienced .. id have to say BGs suck

Angier2758

Originally posted by BadSpock

Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.

Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.

End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.

There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.

 

Love your statement/sig.

 

Someone can say they hope that an entire company goes bankrupt and the employees end up eating on the street... but if you call that person a jerk you get a warning lol.

RefMinor

It's what most people want

Classicstar

Originally posted by heimdall22

Judging by all of the similiarities with WoW:

1) Quest based leveliing with loads of dungeons (Flashpoints) for low lvls.

2) Raids (Operations) as a form of endgame

3) Skill trees being almost the same as wow (2x3 per class as far as I'm aware), points acquired by lvls to spend on

4) PvP organized in form of Battlegrounds (Warfronts)

5) Pretty similiar combat mechanics.

Do you think that SWTOR will turn out to be almost same grinder and treadmill as WoW, with huge emphasis on gear or it will allow all kind of players participate in the endgame (PvP'ers, Crafters, Soloers, Raiders) therefore more "skill" than "gear dependant?

I give 6 months and all players almost look similar to WoW players gear wise. Game already look so much like WoW only in SY FY settings.

Tier1, Tier2,....Tier10 ext:P

Angier2758

Originally posted by azmundai

 

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Originally posted by BadSpock

Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.

Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.

End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.

There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.

 

---

 

maybe i havent seen as much info, but the world pvp is 1 planet? or even just part of 1 planet isn't it? Essentially Wintergrasp 3.0? And Rift only had 4 or 5 BGs at release. Wow had even less (actually, I think .. ironically, wow started out with 3 BGs when they added them). I forget what other games had, but 3 BGs is 3 too many imo =P ... at least unless somehow they make them fun, which is possible, but .. if I had to base what I think off of what I've experienced .. id have to say BGs suck

 

They haven't released any open pvp info yet (unless they just did it).... PS - I will forever love AB that IMO is a fun battleground (especially on foot)

rojoArcueid

gear grinder ftw.....

...until something better comes out who knows when.

heimdall22

Originally posted by Angier2758

Most likely yes.... but most of your reasons have nothing to do with it being a gear grinder.... gear grinders were there before WoW.

Now if skill does triumph over gear it wouldn't be an MMORPG ....unless they equalized gear for pvp (which would be cool, but it would probably turn off a lot of hardcore players).

 

Were you expecting it to not be a gear grind? Or was this a troll question?

I'm well aware that most of the reasons I gave in here doesn't have much to do with gear grind system itself, but...

I just wanted to denote that since it seems that they have copied so much from WoW I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did. Which means introduction of new tiers of gear available through new content, main crafting recipies available through raids etc...

Shoko_Lied

I'm fine with playing towards getting gear as long as not all good gear is exclusive to hardcore 8-15+hr a day players.

BadSpock

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by azmundai

 

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Originally posted by BadSpock

Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.

Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.

End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.

There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.

---

maybe i havent seen as much info, but the world pvp is 1 planet? or even just part of 1 planet isn't it? Essentially Wintergrasp 3.0? And Rift only had 4 or 5 BGs at release. Wow had even less (actually, I think .. ironically, wow started out with 3 BGs when they added them). I forget what other games had, but 3 BGs is 3 too many imo =P ... at least unless somehow they make them fun, which is possible, but .. if I had to base what I think off of what I've experienced .. id have to say BGs suck

They haven't released any open pvp info yet (unless they just did it).... PS - I will forever love AB that IMO is a fun battleground (especially on foot)

They have only 3 because they wanted to make them more story based and not something you grind grind grind.

They have only "confirmed" one planet as in given details on Illum but it is rumored/widely thought that all of the end-game planets are going to have open world PvP objectives on them like Tatooine, Hoth, etc.

Or pretty much every planet but the starting 4 and 2 hub worlds.

So 10 out of 16 planets are "supposed' to heavily feature open world pvp content.

And they have stated that on PvP servers there will be very, very few "safe" areas where you are free from open world PvP (except for on the before mentioned 4 starting worlds and 2 hub worlds of course)

BadSpock

Originally posted by heimdall22

I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did.

The direction that led WoW to 12 million worldwide subs?

TOR could only be that lucky to have similar success.

 

Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.

 

Pyuk

Considering it's WoW with a Star Wars skin, I'd say yes.

DarkPony

"If you want to be that guy doing operations dressed up in a Desert People robe, with enough hard work, you can"

"A very high percentage of gear will be modable"

"We are still itterating and working on the gear and modding system at this moment; the curent beta system isn't final".

Don't hold me accountable for the EXACT quotes, as these are from memory but this is basically what they said in regards to customization. This is what makes me very hopeful; the item itself being far less important than the mods you "Imbue" it with is actually a GREAT idea.

Anyway, gear driven is fine with me, as long as there is plenty of choice and not a lineair WOW-like progression for each class from set A through set B and finally to set C.

heimdall22

Originally posted by BadSpock

Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.

Well, yes initially it might be, but I'm afraid what's the next step is going to be like

Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.

Again, I'm not entirely sure how it is going to work in practise. For instance, could you get FULL gear by doing one thing only? I mean in opposition to Weapon available only from certain ranking as it was (at least at some stage) in WoW

End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got impression taht only warfronts are going to be rewarded with any form of pvp gratification

There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.

Makes no difference whatsoever if thats the only form of PvP being rewarded. If thats the case, as I said, I'm not entirely sure.

 

 

Draemos

Yes, they would be absolutely stupid for it not to be.   Gear grinding is what maintains MMO longevity.

SirBalin

Originally posted by heimdall22

Judging by all of the similiarities with WoW:

1) Quest based leveliing with loads of dungeons (Flashpoints) for low lvls.

2) Raids (Operations) as a form of endgame

3) Skill trees being almost the same as wow (2x3 per class as far as I'm aware), points acquired by lvls to spend on

4) PvP organized in form of Battlegrounds (Warfronts)

5) Pretty similiar combat mechanics.

Do you think that SWTOR will turn out to be almost same grinder and treadmill as WoW, with huge emphasis on gear or it will allow all kind of players participate in the endgame (PvP'ers, Crafters, Soloers, Raiders) therefore more "skill" than "gear dependant?

Yea...that part of the game I don't like, well..lol, pretty much everything you said are parts I don't like.  BUT, the fact that its star wars and it will have open world pvp, not just battlegrounds makes it worth it to me.

Kyleran

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by heimdall22

I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did.

The direction that led WoW to 12 million worldwide subs?

TOR could only be that lucky to have similar success.

 

Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.

 

Which is evidenced by how many people join a new MMORPG at launch and then stick with it for many months or even years because they are enjoying the gear grind so much.

Oh wait, that isn't what usually happens now is it.

I think the marketplace is getting a bit oversaturated with the whole gear grinding concept, but we'll see if SWTOR follows the tradtional start big and then drop subs like crazy in the first 6 months or goes more along the WOW path.