Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.
Well, yes initially it might be, but I'm afraid what's the next step is going to be like
Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.
Again, I'm not entirely sure how it is going to work in practise. For instance, could you get FULL gear by doing one thing only? I mean in opposition to Weapon available only from certain ranking as it was (at least at some stage) in WoW
End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got impression taht only warfronts are going to be rewarded with any form of pvp gratification
There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.
Makes no difference whatsoever if thats the only form of PvP being rewarded. If thats the case, as I said, I'm not entirely sure.
It's not.
Instanced pvp rewards Warzone Commendations, World pvp rewards Mercenary Commendations and "you need both to get the best pvp gear". Good thing is these are exchangable: so you don't have to bother with the kind of pvp you don't like. This has recently been announced.
I voted yes also. Someone someday will build a better mousetrap but in the meantime, this is all endgame is in MMO's. Until more quests and levels are added what is there besides gear to play for? Not defending it , just asking.
You've missed out, there are other things to play for, control of territory being the foremost, see DAOC, EVE and some others for alternate forms of endgame that MMORPG's can actually have.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did.
The direction that led WoW to 12 million worldwide subs?
TOR could only be that lucky to have similar success.
Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.
No, they don't. They only think they do because they don't know any better. They pay 180 dollars a year to log into a game and do things they don't enjoy with a community filled with people they don't like. They just don't know any better. We have to show them how inferior the themepark is, and if they don't like it they simply are inferior/weak minded sheep that follow the wow herd.
At least that's what I read repeatedly on this forum, so it must be true. I mean its the internet!
Most likely yes.... but most of your reasons have nothing to do with it being a gear grinder.... gear grinders were there before WoW.
Now if skill does triumph over gear it wouldn't be an MMORPG ....unless they equalized gear for pvp (which would be cool, but it would probably turn off a lot of hardcore players).
Were you expecting it to not be a gear grind? Or was this a troll question?
I'm well aware that most of the reasons I gave in here doesn't have much to do with gear grind system itself, but...
I just wanted to denote that since it seems that they have copied so much from WoW I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did. Which means introduction of new tiers of gear available through new content, main crafting recipies available through raids etc...
I agree. They are headed in the same direction as WoW did: Millions of players subscribing to the game. But yes, expect a gear grind at level cap. It's a themepark MMO, that's just how it is. It would be nice if they added in an alternate advancement system at some point, but we'll see. I also believe that the way the game is set up, with each planet being a separate "zone," that it lends itself to a little more flexibility in releasing new content. They have the ability, if they so choose, to add in solo-friendly planets at max level for rep gains with certain factions based on questing, and they can do it without the need of "dailies" if they wanted to. Not sure if any of that will come to pass, but there are a lot of options for them based on the way the game is laid out that can enchance end-game play. But yes, there will be your standard gear grind as well. Even though many of us, including myself, aren't big on that type of function anymore (I'm burned out on raiding from WoW), it's still a high-demand aspect of any endgame scenario.
Well, yes initially it might be, but I'm afraid what's the next step is going to be like
I am too. I worry about what happens when "tier 2" is released but no-one knows the answer to that yet.
Again, I'm not entirely sure how it is going to work in practise. For instance, could you get FULL gear by doing one thing only? I mean in opposition to Weapon available only from certain ranking as it was (at least at some stage) in WoW
Again no one can really know who isn't in beta and under a NDA but if you look at DarkPony's post it looks like they are focusing a great deal of gear's "power" on modifications, based on player feedback in the beta (so has been officially announced)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got impression taht only warfronts are going to be rewarded with any form of pvp gratification
I have no idea what this means. PvP gratification? According to what I have heard/read the "best" rewards for PvP come from the open-world stuff and you do get XP for all forms of PvP.
Makes no difference whatsoever if thats the only form of PvP being rewarded. If thats the case, as I said, I'm not entirely sure.
Neither am I, but I know they have said that the best rewards will come much faster from open world PvP stuff and that you'll be able to "trade in" points or whatever from the instanced stuff but at a much slower rate.
Which is pretty much exactly how WoW does it between different "tiers" of badges and PvP commendations.
I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did.
The direction that led WoW to 12 million worldwide subs?
TOR could only be that lucky to have similar success.
Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.
No, they don't. They only think they do because they don't know any better. They pay 180 dollars a year to log into a game and do things they don't enjoy with a community filled with people they don't like. They just don't know any better. We have to show them how inferior the themepark is, and if they don't like it they simply are inferior/weak minded sheep that follow the wow herd.
At least that's what I read repeatedly on this forum, so it must be true. I mean its the internet!
LOL, so true. We're just all dumb sheep who don't know any better. Please show us the way, Sandboxers!
I'm afraid that the whole SWTOR is heading the same direction that WoW did.
The direction that led WoW to 12 million worldwide subs?
TOR could only be that lucky to have similar success.
Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.
No, they don't. They only think they do because they don't know any better. They pay 180 dollars a year to log into a game and do things they don't enjoy with a community filled with people they don't like. They just don't know any better. We have to show them how inferior the themepark is, and if they don't like it they simply are inferior/weak minded sheep that follow the wow herd.
At least that's what I read repeatedly on this forum, so it must be true. I mean its the internet!
I voted yes also. Someone someday will build a better mousetrap but in the meantime, this is all endgame is in MMO's. Until more quests and levels are added what is there besides gear to play for? Not defending it , just asking.
PVP for Territorial control, trading of items in a complex player driven economy (think EVE), rare resource nodes that can be taken over and lost (encouraging exploration and group PVP), having mobs not drop most of the good loot thereby creating a market for crafting PVErs which feeds all of the PVPrs.
There is so much really, but it seems the devs keep taking the easy and uncreative way out.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Come up with a better alternative. I don't mean some pie in the sky thing that can't exist. Outline a real workable alternatiive with current technology. Go......
Originally posted by ktanner3 Come up with a better alternative. I don't mean some pie in the sky thing that can't exist. Outline a real workable alternatiive with current technology. Go......
Read 1 post above yours.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Yes, they would be absolutely stupid for it not to be. Gear grinding is what maintains MMO longevity.
Not neccesarily. Look at GW 2 example. As far as I'm aware it won't be gear driven game. Dynamic content, mini games, replayability of the old content via alts because of changeable environment etc...
I genuinely believe that constant gear grind isnt the ONLY viable option to keep longevity of MMO
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation
Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.
Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.
End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.
There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.
maybe i havent seen as much info, but the world pvp is 1 planet? or even just part of 1 planet isn't it? Essentially Wintergrasp 3.0? And Rift only had 4 or 5 BGs at release. Wow had even less (actually, I think .. ironically, wow started out with 3 BGs when they added them). I forget what other games had, but 3 BGs is 3 too many imo =P ... at least unless somehow they make them fun, which is possible, but .. if I had to base what I think off of what I've experienced .. id have to say BGs suck
They haven't released any open pvp info yet (unless they just did it).... PS - I will forever love AB that IMO is a fun battleground (especially on foot)
They have only 3 because they wanted to make them more story based and not something you grind grind grind.
They have only "confirmed" one planet as in given details on Illum but it is rumored/widely thought that all of the end-game planets are going to have open world PvP objectives on them like Tatooine, Hoth, etc.
Or pretty much every planet but the starting 4 and 2 hub worlds.
So 10 out of 16 planets are "supposed' to heavily feature open world pvp content.
And they have stated that on PvP servers there will be very, very few "safe" areas where you are free from open world PvP (except for on the before mentioned 4 starting worlds and 2 hub worlds of course)
Please. No one cares about the "story" in the Warzones.
They're one HUGE grind, just like every other game that has instanced PvP.
It's a grind for XP, valor, commendations and credits, over and over and over and over again.
It felt no different than what I did in WAR and WoW, only this time, I was holding a lighsaber instead of an axe.
Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.
Which is evidenced by how many people join a new MMORPG at launch and then stick with it for many months or even years because they are enjoying the gear grind so much.
Oh wait, that isn't what usually happens now is it.
I think the marketplace is getting a bit oversaturated with the whole gear grinding concept, but we'll see if SWTOR follows the tradtional start big and then drop subs like crazy in the first 6 months or goes more along the WOW path.
A fair point sir, a fair point.
WoW was a lot different at launch. The game wasn't really a gear grind at all. Raiding was done by so few and there were no heroics or group finding tools. Hell, in the beginning there weren't even battlegrounds!
I can give the candid response of "it's too early to know how Bioware will fair and we don't yet know exactly what the end-game picture will be due to NDA" but I know that is a cop-out excuse.
From what I have seen of the game, from the public playing reviews and what they (Bioware) has said along with their track record and their dev-diary and forum posts etc. that explain their philosophy and such, as follows is my honest to Jebus prediction for this game =
Millions will play at launch.
Those who "rush" to end game and skip the VO and story and companion story and relationship building and exploring etc. etc. are going to get to end-game and be bored and quit and come to forums and bash this game to all Hell.
Those who don't have the patience to even skip the VO and story to get to end-game are going to say it is a terrible game after a month and rage quit and come to the forums and bash this game to all Hell.
Those who slow it down and appreciate the story and characters and companions and everything that makes this game unique that don't care about level caps and end-game are going to absolutely love the freaking piss out of this game for a very, very long time.
This game will have millions and millions of players for the first 2-3 months then drop to only a couple of million, maybe between 1-2 millon worldwide.
By the 6 month mark enough will have changed and have been added many more will come and go and quit and join and in the "long run" I'd think it'd be very fair to say 750k to 2 million people will be the "steady" number of subscriptions for years and years to come.
And even despite all of that, on this website trolls will bash bash bash because TOR does not force WoW to close down and does not get 100% positive 10/10 reviews and as such it will be "another failure" despite being the #2 MMORPG of all time.
They have only "confirmed" one planet as in given details on Illum but it is rumored/widely thought that all of the end-game planets are going to have open world PvP objectives on them like Tatooine, Hoth, etc.
Or pretty much every planet but the starting 4 and 2 hub worlds.
So 10 out of 16 planets are "supposed' to heavily feature open world pvp content.
And they have stated that on PvP servers there will be very, very few "safe" areas where you are free from open world PvP (except for on the before mentioned 4 starting worlds and 2 hub worlds of course)
Please. No one cares about the "story" in the Warzones.
They're one HUGE grind, just like every other game that has instanced PvP.
It's a grind for XP, valor, commendations and credits, over and over and over and over again.
It felt no different than what I did in WAR and WoW, only this time, I was holding a lighsaber instead of an axe.
PVP for Territorial control, trading of items in a complex player driven economy (think EVE), rare resource nodes that can be taken over and lost (encouraging exploration and group PVP), having mobs not drop most of the good loot thereby creating a market for crafting PVErs which feeds all of the PVPrs.
There is so much really, but it seems the devs keep taking the easy and uncreative way out.
Pure win formula. I think when large companies and their investors realize diminishing returns from investment in these outdated play models will allow for more creative mmos in the future.
much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.
You underestimate the addiction (determination?).
I have in mind a certain holiday event, where the biggest "win" prize was desirable enough that a fairly sizeable population played an extremely low odds game (one of those 1:10000 drops) for days and days--complaining loudly the entire time about how much it sucked.
The evolution of MMOs got one thing exactly right--the powerful obsession of species: Gamer for Status Symbols.
It's both part of the addiction and part of the bitterness when they become an ex-gamer.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
And even despite all of that, on this website trolls will bash bash bash because TOR does not force WoW to close down and does not get 100% positive 10/10 reviews and as such it will be "another failure" despite being the #2 MMORPG of all time.
Holy crap..... I might actually want to play SWTOR.
I had written a bunch of reasons why people would call it a failure... legitimate reasons, regardless of how many people buy it, which I'll explain.
We all loved KOTOR, right? Probably...
Well this game is probably going to be like KOTOR in some respects, but it's going to be as long as an MMO.. so I won't beat it in a day, hopefully.
I'll probably buy it and just play the story. 60 bucks well spent.
But from the MMORPG prospective, it's only saving grace FOR ME...would be the territorial PVP. It's not quite because it's PvP (because well... WoW has "PvP"). It's because it's constantly happening, it's not instanced, and it actually means something to the gaming world. So I may play it for a month and determine if the end of the single-player-esque version is up to worldly/community-like qualities.
Actually...I changed my mind. There are better single-player stories I can get for PS3.... so actually I probably will just not get an MMO until TSW/GW2. No classes....automatic WIN if they have at least a semi-polished product.
I know I will most likely level up to max level and quit. MMOs nowadays are only fun before the endgame aspect kicks in. I hate gear grinding. I simply don't have the patience nor the desire to grind several dungeons and raids over and over and over again only to get items which will be useless to me in PvP. It's even worse because all you get from the new shiny tier of gear is + x to several passive abilities. Yay, I am so excited....
Grinding battlegrounds, or whatever Bioware calls them, is also booooring.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.
Which is evidenced by how many people join a new MMORPG at launch and then stick with it for many months or even years because they are enjoying the gear grind so much.
Oh wait, that isn't what usually happens now is it.
I think the marketplace is getting a bit oversaturated with the whole gear grinding concept, but we'll see if SWTOR follows the tradtional start big and then drop subs like crazy in the first 6 months or goes more along the WOW path.
A fair point sir, a fair point.
WoW was a lot different at launch. The game wasn't really a gear grind at all. Raiding was done by so few and there were no heroics or group finding tools. Hell, in the beginning there weren't even battlegrounds!
I can give the candid response of "it's too early to know how Bioware will fair and we don't yet know exactly what the end-game picture will be due to NDA" but I know that is a cop-out excuse.
From what I have seen of the game, from the public playing reviews and what they (Bioware) has said along with their track record and their dev-diary and forum posts etc. that explain their philosophy and such, as follows is my honest to Jebus prediction for this game =
Millions will play at launch.
Those who "rush" to end game and skip the VO and story and companion story and relationship building and exploring etc. etc. are going to get to end-game and be bored and quit and come to forums and bash this game to all Hell.
Those who don't have the patience to even skip the VO and story to get to end-game are going to say it is a terrible game after a month and rage quit and come to the forums and bash this game to all Hell.
Those who slow it down and appreciate the story and characters and companions and everything that makes this game unique that don't care about level caps and end-game are going to absolutely love the freaking piss out of this game for a very, very long time.
This game will have millions and millions of players for the first 2-3 months then drop to only a couple of million, maybe between 1-2 millon worldwide.
By the 6 month mark enough will have changed and have been added many more will come and go and quit and join and in the "long run" I'd think it'd be very fair to say 750k to 2 million people will be the "steady" number of subscriptions for years and years to come.
And even despite all of that, on this website trolls will bash bash bash because TOR does not force WoW to close down and does not get 100% positive 10/10 reviews and as such it will be "another failure" despite being the #2 MMORPG of all time.
Although it was long ago and far far away () I remember WOW at launch and dare I say it was quite fun. I enjoyed my time in it, and eventually when BC came out it was apparent to me how the game design was going to go and I moved on looking for other entertainment.
For myself, I know that SWTOR won't be the end all MMORPG for me, but then again, I doubt I'll ever find the holy grail, so I'll enjoy the game for what it has, and when the time comes that I don't think I'm having fun anymore, I'll give another title a go.
Edit: Oh yeah, and I'll probably bitch about it a bit on the forums.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Obtaining new and improved items is one of the core mechanics of this genre.. it was in 2000 when I played my 1st MMO and it is today... Even FPS games have item grind in them now..., however the item grind aspect is irrelevant if theres a bad game underneath that and thats whats important ultimately.
Yes, they would be absolutely stupid for it not to be. Gear grinding is what maintains MMO longevity.
Not neccesarily. Look at GW 2 example. As far as I'm aware it won't be gear driven game. Dynamic content, mini games, replayability of the old content via alts because of changeable environment etc...
I genuinely believe that constant gear grind isnt the ONLY viable option to keep longevity of MMO
GW2 is going to suffer because of lack of endgame content. Mark my words. Luckily for them, their payment model is such that people can go play other games once they get bored at endgame while waiting for ArenaNet to deliver expansions. In fact, ArenaNet has said they expect players to take a break from GW2 at certain points. Don't think that the dynamic events and WvWvW will be enough to keep players attention at endgame, because it won't.
Bioware has stated time and time and time and time again that the real differenences in gear only account for about 10% of a player's power.
Yes, it will be a gear grinder, but much more about getting the gear you want from doing the things you want to do (solo, raiding, pvp, crafting, etc.) then being forced to do certain activities to get "the best" gear.
End-game PvP is also focused around open world PvP not instanced BG's, btw.
There are only 3 instanced BG's in at launch.
maybe i havent seen as much info, but the world pvp is 1 planet? or even just part of 1 planet isn't it? Essentially Wintergrasp 3.0? And Rift only had 4 or 5 BGs at release. Wow had even less (actually, I think .. ironically, wow started out with 3 BGs when they added them). I forget what other games had, but 3 BGs is 3 too many imo =P ... at least unless somehow they make them fun, which is possible, but .. if I had to base what I think off of what I've experienced .. id have to say BGs suck
They haven't released any open pvp info yet (unless they just did it).... PS - I will forever love AB that IMO is a fun battleground (especially on foot)
They have only 3 because they wanted to make them more story based and not something you grind grind grind.
They have only "confirmed" one planet as in given details on Illum but it is rumored/widely thought that all of the end-game planets are going to have open world PvP objectives on them like Tatooine, Hoth, etc.
Or pretty much every planet but the starting 4 and 2 hub worlds.
So 10 out of 16 planets are "supposed' to heavily feature open world pvp content.
And they have stated that on PvP servers there will be very, very few "safe" areas where you are free from open world PvP (except for on the before mentioned 4 starting worlds and 2 hub worlds of course)
Pretty much accurate, what they've said is world PVP begins when players reach Tattoine. They've also said there will be capturable points on contested planets (I'd guess those are the cross faction planets like Tattoine, Alderran, Hoth etc..) They have confirmed Illum's use as a PVP planet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
It's not.
Instanced pvp rewards Warzone Commendations, World pvp rewards Mercenary Commendations and "you need both to get the best pvp gear". Good thing is these are exchangable: so you don't have to bother with the kind of pvp you don't like. This has recently been announced.
My brand new bloggity blog.
You've missed out, there are other things to play for, control of territory being the foremost, see DAOC, EVE and some others for alternate forms of endgame that MMORPG's can actually have.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No, they don't. They only think they do because they don't know any better. They pay 180 dollars a year to log into a game and do things they don't enjoy with a community filled with people they don't like. They just don't know any better. We have to show them how inferior the themepark is, and if they don't like it they simply are inferior/weak minded sheep that follow the wow herd.
At least that's what I read repeatedly on this forum, so it must be true. I mean its the internet!
I agree. They are headed in the same direction as WoW did: Millions of players subscribing to the game. But yes, expect a gear grind at level cap. It's a themepark MMO, that's just how it is. It would be nice if they added in an alternate advancement system at some point, but we'll see. I also believe that the way the game is set up, with each planet being a separate "zone," that it lends itself to a little more flexibility in releasing new content. They have the ability, if they so choose, to add in solo-friendly planets at max level for rep gains with certain factions based on questing, and they can do it without the need of "dailies" if they wanted to. Not sure if any of that will come to pass, but there are a lot of options for them based on the way the game is laid out that can enchance end-game play. But yes, there will be your standard gear grind as well. Even though many of us, including myself, aren't big on that type of function anymore (I'm burned out on raiding from WoW), it's still a high-demand aspect of any endgame scenario.
LOL, so true. We're just all dumb sheep who don't know any better. Please show us the way, Sandboxers!
The direction that led WoW to 12 million worldwide subs?
TOR could only be that lucky to have similar success.
Funny story, the vast majority of MMORPG gamers LIKE raiding and heroic dungeons and daily quests and instanced PvP.
No, they don't. They only think they do because they don't know any better. They pay 180 dollars a year to log into a game and do things they don't enjoy with a community filled with people they don't like. They just don't know any better. We have to show them how inferior the themepark is, and if they don't like it they simply are inferior/weak minded sheep that follow the wow herd.
At least that's what I read repeatedly on this forum, so it must be true. I mean its the internet!
Do you know Tyler Durdin? LolPVP for Territorial control, trading of items in a complex player driven economy (think EVE), rare resource nodes that can be taken over and lost (encouraging exploration and group PVP), having mobs not drop most of the good loot thereby creating a market for crafting PVErs which feeds all of the PVPrs.
There is so much really, but it seems the devs keep taking the easy and uncreative way out.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Read 1 post above yours.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Not neccesarily. Look at GW 2 example. As far as I'm aware it won't be gear driven game. Dynamic content, mini games, replayability of the old content via alts because of changeable environment etc...
I genuinely believe that constant gear grind isnt the ONLY viable option to keep longevity of MMO
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation
Please. No one cares about the "story" in the Warzones.
They're one HUGE grind, just like every other game that has instanced PvP.
It's a grind for XP, valor, commendations and credits, over and over and over and over again.
It felt no different than what I did in WAR and WoW, only this time, I was holding a lighsaber instead of an axe.
A fair point sir, a fair point.
WoW was a lot different at launch. The game wasn't really a gear grind at all. Raiding was done by so few and there were no heroics or group finding tools. Hell, in the beginning there weren't even battlegrounds!
I can give the candid response of "it's too early to know how Bioware will fair and we don't yet know exactly what the end-game picture will be due to NDA" but I know that is a cop-out excuse.
From what I have seen of the game, from the public playing reviews and what they (Bioware) has said along with their track record and their dev-diary and forum posts etc. that explain their philosophy and such, as follows is my honest to Jebus prediction for this game =
Millions will play at launch.
Those who "rush" to end game and skip the VO and story and companion story and relationship building and exploring etc. etc. are going to get to end-game and be bored and quit and come to forums and bash this game to all Hell.
Those who don't have the patience to even skip the VO and story to get to end-game are going to say it is a terrible game after a month and rage quit and come to the forums and bash this game to all Hell.
Those who slow it down and appreciate the story and characters and companions and everything that makes this game unique that don't care about level caps and end-game are going to absolutely love the freaking piss out of this game for a very, very long time.
This game will have millions and millions of players for the first 2-3 months then drop to only a couple of million, maybe between 1-2 millon worldwide.
By the 6 month mark enough will have changed and have been added many more will come and go and quit and join and in the "long run" I'd think it'd be very fair to say 750k to 2 million people will be the "steady" number of subscriptions for years and years to come.
And even despite all of that, on this website trolls will bash bash bash because TOR does not force WoW to close down and does not get 100% positive 10/10 reviews and as such it will be "another failure" despite being the #2 MMORPG of all time.
Apparently you missed the above?
What did I miss?
Pure win formula. I think when large companies and their investors realize diminishing returns from investment in these outdated play models will allow for more creative mmos in the future.
Life IS Feudal
yes it is a gear grinder.
yes it will hold a decent amount of subs regardless (the 750k-2mil estimate made earlier is probably fairly accurate).
no it wont be revolutionizing the genre, sorry to all that thought this.
You underestimate the addiction (determination?).
I have in mind a certain holiday event, where the biggest "win" prize was desirable enough that a fairly sizeable population played an extremely low odds game (one of those 1:10000 drops) for days and days--complaining loudly the entire time about how much it sucked.
The evolution of MMOs got one thing exactly right--the powerful obsession of species: Gamer for Status Symbols.
It's both part of the addiction and part of the bitterness when they become an ex-gamer.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Holy crap..... I might actually want to play SWTOR.
I had written a bunch of reasons why people would call it a failure... legitimate reasons, regardless of how many people buy it, which I'll explain.
We all loved KOTOR, right? Probably...
Well this game is probably going to be like KOTOR in some respects, but it's going to be as long as an MMO.. so I won't beat it in a day, hopefully.
I'll probably buy it and just play the story. 60 bucks well spent.
But from the MMORPG prospective, it's only saving grace FOR ME...would be the territorial PVP. It's not quite because it's PvP (because well... WoW has "PvP"). It's because it's constantly happening, it's not instanced, and it actually means something to the gaming world. So I may play it for a month and determine if the end of the single-player-esque version is up to worldly/community-like qualities.
Actually...I changed my mind. There are better single-player stories I can get for PS3.... so actually I probably will just not get an MMO until TSW/GW2. No classes....automatic WIN if they have at least a semi-polished product.
I know I will most likely level up to max level and quit. MMOs nowadays are only fun before the endgame aspect kicks in. I hate gear grinding. I simply don't have the patience nor the desire to grind several dungeons and raids over and over and over again only to get items which will be useless to me in PvP. It's even worse because all you get from the new shiny tier of gear is + x to several passive abilities. Yay, I am so excited....
Grinding battlegrounds, or whatever Bioware calls them, is also booooring.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Although it was long ago and far far away (
) I remember WOW at launch and dare I say it was quite fun. I enjoyed my time in it, and eventually when BC came out it was apparent to me how the game design was going to go and I moved on looking for other entertainment.
For myself, I know that SWTOR won't be the end all MMORPG for me, but then again, I doubt I'll ever find the holy grail, so I'll enjoy the game for what it has, and when the time comes that I don't think I'm having fun anymore, I'll give another title a go.
Edit: Oh yeah, and I'll probably bitch about it a bit on the forums.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Obtaining new and improved items is one of the core mechanics of this genre.. it was in 2000 when I played my 1st MMO and it is today... Even FPS games have item grind in them now..., however the item grind aspect is irrelevant if theres a bad game underneath that and thats whats important ultimately.
Since bioware took over warhammer online, the more noticable thing implemented is gear grind
GW2 is going to suffer because of lack of endgame content. Mark my words. Luckily for them, their payment model is such that people can go play other games once they get bored at endgame while waiting for ArenaNet to deliver expansions. In fact, ArenaNet has said they expect players to take a break from GW2 at certain points. Don't think that the dynamic events and WvWvW will be enough to keep players attention at endgame, because it won't.
Pretty much accurate, what they've said is world PVP begins when players reach Tattoine. They've also said there will be capturable points on contested planets (I'd guess those are the cross faction planets like Tattoine, Alderran, Hoth etc..) They have confirmed Illum's use as a PVP planet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson