Then can you please edit the orignal baiting post?
"Free...Cash Shop.
Once again...
Free...Cash Shop."
That was not baiting. That was short emphasis.
[Mod Edit]
There is definitely something we can agree on!
I also didn't take your post as baiting....I just responded the same way. My rating has gone down for the same reasons. I guess some people don't like others' opinions... I personally thought your post was kind of funny, and so I responded with what I thought was funny.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
I'd like to thank Coyote for saying what I've been saying for the last five years or so. Unlike what the industry says, F2P is not designed to be enjoyed by casuals.
Instead, F2P is designed to transform casuals into hardcore, MMO junkies.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
It's not partially free to play, it is free to play. There is the way the game is intended to be played - the "long hard way". Then there is the quicker "I can't handle my character being less than max level" way in the cash shop. Also, most P2P and B2P games have that as well. You can go in there cash shops and buy XP boosts, pots, etc. that make the game a little easier to play. How is that any different?
So, no, they are not lying, as much as you'd like to make believe that they are.
-sigh-
Dishonesty does not require outright lying.
I've read every response since I made my last post and I see that people are, time and again, looking at it as "It's F2P because you don't have to buy those things to play the game! They're optional!"
Yes... that explanation covers what F2P are on the surface... but goes no deeper.
If you read what people like myself, the OP and others have stated, our issue is not with the fact that "items are sold that are completely optional". Hell, playing the game at all is completely optional, so anything after that is even moreso..
The problem lies in how the games are designed to compel people to not play for free. The designers implement all manner of speed-bumps, barriers, pot holes and obstacles - to a degree that would never be tolerated in a sub-based MMO and players would demand be adjusted - and they do it deliberately. Why? Because for every speed bump, obstacle, pot hole and barrier designed into the game, they have an item conveniently for sale in their cash shop to circumvent the barriers and obstacles, and help offset the speed-bumps.
Once again, the people who seem to say "nuh uhhhh" the most are those who claim to play these games without spending a dime; some goings so far as to claim that they've gone all the way to end-game and/or engaged fully in end-game content without restraint... without buying anything in the cash shop.
To those who play without paying a dime: Youare not the developers' target market. You are playing the game in a way that is at odds with what the developers intend.
The developers' intention is to make money. They intend to make money using a system that has been openly described as monetizing players for potentialy far more than a box+sub fee could ever earn. The entire game is designed, from the ground up, to get people to spend as much as possible.
Those of you who are saying "those spending money are idiots" are completely missing the point. Those people you are calling "idiots" are the ones paying the bills. They're the ones keeping the game you play "without spending a dime" online and running.
They are the people the developers are targeting. You - those not spending anything - aren't.
Look past the sassy PR, ignore the spiffy advertising with the word "FREE!" plastered everywhere and think about it.
Perspective... It helps.
With the understanding that people spending money are who the developers are targeting, we can now move on to what is - to myself and others - the real crux of the issue... That is, how they go about getting people to spend that money. And to understand that at the 10,000 foot, "big picture" level, you need only read the quote in my signature which reads, to paraphrase:
"If you take a step back, you will clearly see all the potholes and the cash shop selling asphalt".
Are the developers lying by calling it free? No. Technically, they are telling the truth. What they are, however, is deceptive in how the game is designed.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Then can you please edit the orignal baiting post?
"Free...Cash Shop.
Once again...
Free...Cash Shop."
That was not baiting. That was short emphasis.
[Mod Edit]
There is definitely something we can agree on!
I also didn't take your post as baiting....I just responded the same way. My rating has gone down for the same reasons. I guess some people don't like others' opinions... I personally thought your post was kind of funny, and so I responded with what I thought was funny.
I was saying the same thing when talking to the gf about the deletions - that I had not thought your post was baiting - that where mine had been short emphasis - you were just emphasizing as well, and that it was kind of funny.
There's no doubt that we disagree on many of the aspects of the F2P model, but it was the most civil and sticking to the point discussion I think I've ever had on it. Hence the, ahem, description that I used that was edited out - heh, cause that is what it usually ends up being. Which this was not...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It's not partially free to play, it is free to play. There is the way the game is intended to be played - the "long hard way". Then there is the quicker "I can't handle my character being less than max level" way in the cash shop. Also, most P2P and B2P games have that as well. You can go in there cash shops and buy XP boosts, pots, etc. that make the game a little easier to play. How is that any different?
So, no, they are not lying, as much as you'd like to make believe that they are.
-sigh-
Dishonesty does not require outright lying.
I've read every response since I made my last post and I see that people are, time and again, looking at it as "It's F2P because you don't have to buy those things to play the game! They're optional!"
Yes... that explanation covers what F2P are on the surface... but goes no deeper.
If you read what people like myself, the OP and others have stated, our issue is not with the fact that "items are sold that are completely optional". Hell, playing the game at all is completely optional, so anything after that is even moreso..
The problem lies in how the games are designed to compel people to not play for free. The designers implement all manner of speed-bumps, barriers, pot holes and obstacles - to a degree that would never be tolerated in a sub-based MMO and players would demand be adjusted - and they do it deliberately. Why? Because for every speed bump, obstacle, pot hole and barrier designed into the game, they have an item conveniently for sale in their cash shop to circumvent the barriers and obstacles, and help offset the speed-bumps.
Once again, the people who seem to say "nuh uhhhh" the most are those who claim to play these games without spending a dime; some goings so far as to claim that they've gone all the way to end-game and/or engaged fully in end-game content without restraint... without buying anything in the cash shop.
To those who play without paying a dime: Youare not the developers' target market. You are playing the game in a way that is at odds with what the developers intend.
The developers' intention is to make money. They intend to make money using a system that has been openly described as monetizing players for potentialy far more than a box+sub fee could ever earn. The entire game is designed, from the ground up, to get people to spend as much as possible.
Those of you who are saying "those spending money are idiots" are completely missing the point. Those people you are calling "idiots" are the ones paying the bills. They're the ones keeping the game you play "without spending a dime" online and running.
They are the people the developers are targeting. You - those not spending anything - aren't.
Look past the sassy PR, ignore the spiffy advertising with the word "FREE!" plastered everywhere and think about it.
Perspective... It helps.
With the understanding that people spending money are who the developers are targeting, we can now move on to what is - to myself and others - the real crux of the issue... That is, how they go about getting people to spend that money. And to understand that at the 10,000 foot, "big picture" level, you need only read the quote in my signature which reads, to paraphrase:
"If you take a step back, you will clearly see all the potholes and the cash shop selling asphalt".
Are the developers lying by calling it free? No. Technically, they are telling the truth. What they are, however, is deceptive in how the game is designed.
You're right, it is a matter of perspective. It's also mostly a matter of patience. I believe, from reading many many posts on this issue, that most people who complain about F2P games and their cash shops basically don't like the grindy aspect of these games, or the relatively slow leveling within the games. Hence, they buy the XP boosts, and pots, etc. Then they turn around and complain about all the money they spent. I agree, F2P devs are in the business of making money. One way they have figured out to make money is to offer their product for free, then charge for extras. They are very up front about it. If you download just about any F2P game and immediately check out all the stuff in their cash shop, you can get a very good idea of what you may be facing. Also do some research into how others feel about the playability of the game. If you're one of those whose ADD prevents you from having the patience to grind your way through a game, don't play it. Go play a sub based game because they don't try to funnel you into paying as much as they can get you to.
You talk about the cash shop selling the asphalt for the potholes. What is a sub based game doing other than selling you the car (the box) and then selling you the permission to drive it?
Frankly, I don't think that F2P devs are any more deceptive in their offerings than any P2P game.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
It seems like the western games that have converted to so called F2P have been the masters of allowing only limited access to the game and then forcing you to pay to get the rest. I call these, Pay 2 finish games. EQ2 and LOTRO are like this. I guess it comes from the whole DLC concept. Then add to that the idea of allowing only so much inventory space unless you buy it. Again this falls more in the DLC category because they really give you no options for getting say your last two bags in the game. you only get those slots with a subscription or something like that. In the west, as has been mentioned, we have also essentially “perfected” the double and triple dipping strategies of sub + cashshop + box? + expansions? This can be fine if it is kept to a limit. What WoW does is probably fine, selling a few vanity pets or mounts is not a big deal. What EQ2X does is considerably more greedy and will probably sink them in the long run.
But that shouldn't be confused with the type of F2P games that have more often come from the east like Perfect World and the soon coming update to Lineage 2 that allow you full access to the game world, all the races and classes, all levels and give you at least a way to expand your inventory to the max without paying for it. Of course who wants to way another 30 levels to get a ghetto slow flying mount when you can pay for something much faster and get it much sooner? But I think the big difference between these two flavors of free to play is that everything is available to the non-paying player in the eastern model. It is very very, very slow to get but it is available and that makes a big difference.
I don't think it is legitimate to say that nobody pays nothing for these games and those who say they do are lying. Some people have more time on their hand. Kids. People on disability. They often have little extra cash but a whole lot of extra time. And that is the trick to these games. Some people are willing to take the time to farm up 10 million tiny coins and sell them to a rich person for something bought from the cash shop or in games that support it sell it directly for the cash shop cash. This way the cash poor/time rich can get access to the goodies in the cash shop just as the cash rich/time poor player can. Trading time for game currency is really what EVE's Plex system is all about as well. People do play for free but they have to have both time and patience.
Keep in mind that here on this board most posters are gamers in the proper sense and that means we tend to be more competitive. F2P cash shop games can financially gut those who are hyper competitive. If there is a way to get ahead and get there first we tend to want to take it. And in those games cash is the fastest way there. But keep in mind that it doesn't have to equate to Pay 2 Win. Getting to the end game before anyone else might be seen as "winning" to the hyper competitive types but after most people are already there, getting though the leveling simply changes the time frame for when a new person will enter the end game as well. Paying for pre-endgame leveling boosts doesn't change the endgame it just changes who is in it and when. What needs to be avoided are those thing that could skew the balance of the endgame itself. Like selling endgame buffs or gear that are unique to the cash shop. It is one thing to sell a pot called buffer-in-a-bottle that simply gives you the same 8 buffs that a player who plays the buffer can give you for free, and the bottle-o-bad-ass that doubles your uber which has no equivalent in the game. The later is bad, very bad. Same goes for gear.
My point is that there are better and worse ways to handle free to play. Perfect World I think is on the bit better side but they still have some very evil tendencies. Like preying on those with gambling addiction or making some of the high end gear all but impossible to craft without cashshopping. Setting this stuff up right also requires some common sense ethics which doesn't seem to be all too common any more. But the possibility is still there.
I am curious to see how Lineage 2 will handle their move to F2P. They seem to "get it". at least in principle from what they have said and written about concerning "Truly Free". They get that you shouldn't split your community into cool kids and kids in corduroy, it is just not right. They have somewhat emphasized that they will be selling leveling enhancements and vanity items but then they have also hinted at selling buffs and other supplies. Will the buffs effect endgame? If they are anything like the buff items that are given during events then, no not really. they are usually just items that give you buffs that are duplicates of the spells from the buffing classes. Borderline but not quite game breaking. They have also mentioned that some cash shop items will be sellable. If they make tradable anything that is "game effecting" then that also allows people to trade their time in the form of adena for items from the cash shop. I would rather see an ncoin marketplace like PW has but perhaps they are working on it and just don't have it ready yet. who knows.
I also suspect that since L2 is a long standing and well developed PvP endgame that they will not do anything to jack up its balance. But given its long history of being a slow leveling grind game they will have little problem making money off those with less time and more cash who wish to speed up the leveling process a bit. L2 stands in a good spot to take over the free to play market since PW was largely copied from L2 and even with dated graphics still comes across as a much higher quality game than PW. While F2P will never supplant P2P I think L2 will soon be considered the gold standard for how F2P should be done.
You're right, it is a matter of perspective. It's also mostly a matter of patience. I believe, from reading many many posts on this issue, that most people who complain about F2P games and their cash shops basically don't like the grindy aspect of these games, or the relatively slow leveling within the games. Hence, they buy the XP boosts, and pots, etc. Then they turn around and complain about all the money they spent. I agree, F2P devs are in the business of making money. One way they have figured out to make money is to offer their product for free, then charge for extras. They are very up front about it. If you download just about any F2P game and immediately check out all the stuff in their cash shop, you can get a very good idea of what you may be facing. Also do some research into how others feel about the playability of the game. If you're one of those whose ADD prevents you from having the patience to grind your way through a game, don't play it. Go play a sub based game because they don't try to funnel you into paying as much as they can get you to.
First, for the record.. I'm a very patient player. I don't care if it takes me 2 years to reach level cap in a MMO - as long as I'm enjoying myself along the way. It has nothing to do with impatience, ADD, hyper-competitiveness or anything else.
I've explained, multiple times, what my issue is with F2P/Cash Shops. It has nothing to do with "being able to see what they're selling". This is not the first time I've said this.
Once again... and please read what I'm saying this time.
My issue with F2P/Cash Shop MMOs has everything to do with how the games are designed at their core. To argue that "there's nothing dishonest in how F2P MMOs are designed because you can clearly see what they're selling is like saying car salesmen don't use shady/underhanded tactics to sell cars because "you can see the cars they're selling right in the lot!" It's a non-sequitur.
What they're selling has nothing to do with the strategies or techniques they use to sell it. Understand the difference?
P2P/Sub-based MMO devs focus on crafting an ongoing gameplay experience that can keep players engaged, entertained and immersed for months or even years (you know, like all the 1st, 2nd and even some 3rd Gen P2P MMOs have done for years now) and making their money on the basic principle of providing an experience that enough people find enjoyable and worthy of paying that monthly sub....
And, though I know it's a favored rebuttal by many pro-F2P folks, please don't say "Yes, they keep them playing longer by artificially dragging everything out", because to say that is to completely miss the point of MMOs... deliberately or otherwise. It would be like railing against motorcycle dealers for selling vehicles with only two wheels and no doors.
And besides which, if people aren't enjoying the game enough to keep playing and paying a sub fee, then it doesn't matter what the developers are doing. You can't "drag out the game" for people if they don't find your game fun enough to play in the first place.
Conversely... Cash Shop MMOs designers are focused first and foremost on trying to find ways to get people to spend as much money as possible as often as possible by making the game as slow, inconvient and cumbersome as possible.. in as many ways as they can get away with. And the areas they choose to focus on are always the ones that are most often the topic of criticism by many players...
Just one example:
Many MMO players can't stand a game with a slow leveling curve and are forever asking Devs to speed it up. You see those complaints crop up time and again on most any MMO's forums.
In a P2P/Sub based MMO, the developers will look into the leveling xp, see how it balances out against the rest of the game, how they want the pacing of the MMO to be, etc.. and then make adjustments as necessary. Their goal is to create a progression curve that requires effort on the players' part, but is not considered too grindy or cumbersome for many of them.
In F2P/Cash Shop MMOs, the devs already know the xp curve/rate is painfully slow because they made it that way deliberately. Their response to the slow leveling issue is to create xp potions to sell on their cash shop. And they do this because they know that xp/hr is "the holy grail" to many players and that, for many MMO players, being able to level as quickly as possible (for whatever reason) is an important factor. They count on that knowledge to help sell more xp potions.
The leveling curve is the pot hole deliberately created by the developers. The xp potion is the asphalt required to fix the pothole... at the player's expense.
Please don't come back with another reiteration of "it's not dishonest, you can see what they're selling for yourself". What they're selling is not the issue. How they engineer the game to sell as much of it as possible is the issue. The issue is the dishonesty of how the games are set up.
You talk about the cash shop selling the asphalt for the potholes. What is a sub based game doing other than selling you the car (the box) and then selling you the permission to drive it?
That's a disingenuous question based on a false premise.
You're paying for the service aspect of the deal. Not the game itself. MMORPGs are as much a service as they are a game. Just as you have to pay your own internet bills, your own cable bills, your own phone service bills and so forth to use their resources... you are paying to help pay for the resources required to run and maintain a MMORPG.
It's funny to me how people seem to think spending $50 on a game box, and an additional $40 once a year or so should be enough to cover all the operation expenses of running a MMO.
And frankly, I know that no matter how much I play, how aggressively or casually I want to level, how competitive I want to be, how much I want to PvP... how I want to play the game... I will only be paying the same $15 a month.
No matter how much or how little I play over the course of a month...
I will never have to buy more xp potions to get around an xp rate deliberately made to be as painfully slow as possible to try and sell more items.
I won't have to spend real money to alleviate the deliberately limited inventory space implemented by the developers to sell more inventory expansions.
I won't have to spend real money to buy the ability to chat in a global channel (as in Perfect World when I last tried it), because the developers know that players enjoy chatting in such a forum, and decide to cash in on it by making people pay to do so.
I won't have to spend money to get MP or HP potions/charms/trinkets because the developers have engineered the game to make MP/HP management as difficult or tedious as possible without them.
I won't be paying extra out of pocket to get a faster mount because the developers deliberately make travel without them significantly and less convenient.
I won't be paying extra out of pocket to get access to the in-game mail system.
And so forth.. the list goes on and on of examples I could cite from the variety of F2P/Cash Shop MMOs I've played over the past several years.
Further still, I will never even be faced with having to make a decision on any of those situations, because it will never be necessary. They will never come up in a P2P/Sub-based MMO, because the goal of P2P developers is not to design every obstacle and speed bump they can into the game to funnel people to their cash shop as often as possible.
No matter what I do, no matter how much I play... I will only ever have to pay a flat rate of $15 a month, maybe less depending on the game.
Frankly, I don't think that F2P devs are any more deceptive in their offerings than any P2P game.
... because you continue to ignore the issues I actually bring up and instead keep arguing the "you can clearly see what they're selling!" line.
It's the classic strawman treatment. Every time.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Seems like this article is to vent the greatness of P2p games and specialy games like WOW. Since everyone seems to believe it is the only game worth playing worth paying for and pay non stop, but in order to that you need to spend some cash every month "14,95$", as for the F2P you will spend more money since you do it every day apparantly.
I've seen many people play Both side of the coins P2P like wow and etc and then F2P. Most of the time if you dont pay that monthly fee at the end of the month you either buy a life time subscription or simply dont play the next month and wait till you can pay for the next month and so on,and when we turn on the other side of the dime we have the free to play experience some of us play games like the turbine games or the asian game of PWE and gpotato and the MMOBA like Leagues of legends etc.
The majority of the players have that option to play the game and grind happily and make points those points are rewards from quest and so on, basically you really are not forced to spend any dime in the game, unless you feel like it is a must in order to level quickly you have to spend money so that you can be at the top, like you have a reputation to futfill and show the community how quickly you can level your toon to the highest level.
I have played P2P games like Eve and wow from their launch and i can tell you when i did the math and see how much have spend each for those game i am sure not everyone will believe me. Just recently i started playing those F2P games that apparantly put you on broke days and so on, i actually have no problem with them because i am not forced nor feel the rush to buy anything in the cashshop, f2p is similar to our real life story (Are we forced to go to the mall everyday and be on shopping spree to consume consume ?) or (do we use the mall only because we are in need of something and we only make that stop only to get that item ?) and then you move on with your life, it is pretty much the same thing in a free to play game its not like you are forced to be on top the game is here to be enjoyed as life is to be enjoyed and not to actually feel like there is a rush or you will be missing that world wonder you are so after that by being at the last level feel better about yourself. For me i dont have that feel of spending urge in a game cause i think when a game is free to play it is meant to be enjoyed to run arround and to actually to those quests and kill those beast and level slowly but surely and also take the time to enjoy the other things that are around us in life that by sitting behind a comp we might end up missing.
Comments
There is definitely something we can agree on!
I also didn't take your post as baiting....I just responded the same way. My rating has gone down for the same reasons. I guess some people don't like others' opinions... I personally thought your post was kind of funny, and so I responded with what I thought was funny.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
I'd like to thank Coyote for saying what I've been saying for the last five years or so. Unlike what the industry says, F2P is not designed to be enjoyed by casuals.
Instead, F2P is designed to transform casuals into hardcore, MMO junkies.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Come on people there is NO such thing as a free to play game. You eventually have to pony up the cash to play it.
It is ludicrous to even think any of these games are free to play!
-sigh-
Dishonesty does not require outright lying.
I've read every response since I made my last post and I see that people are, time and again, looking at it as "It's F2P because you don't have to buy those things to play the game! They're optional!"
Yes... that explanation covers what F2P are on the surface... but goes no deeper.
If you read what people like myself, the OP and others have stated, our issue is not with the fact that "items are sold that are completely optional". Hell, playing the game at all is completely optional, so anything after that is even moreso..
The problem lies in how the games are designed to compel people to not play for free. The designers implement all manner of speed-bumps, barriers, pot holes and obstacles - to a degree that would never be tolerated in a sub-based MMO and players would demand be adjusted - and they do it deliberately. Why? Because for every speed bump, obstacle, pot hole and barrier designed into the game, they have an item conveniently for sale in their cash shop to circumvent the barriers and obstacles, and help offset the speed-bumps.
Once again, the people who seem to say "nuh uhhhh" the most are those who claim to play these games without spending a dime; some goings so far as to claim that they've gone all the way to end-game and/or engaged fully in end-game content without restraint... without buying anything in the cash shop.
To those who play without paying a dime: You are not the developers' target market. You are playing the game in a way that is at odds with what the developers intend.
The developers' intention is to make money. They intend to make money using a system that has been openly described as monetizing players for potentialy far more than a box+sub fee could ever earn. The entire game is designed, from the ground up, to get people to spend as much as possible.
Those of you who are saying "those spending money are idiots" are completely missing the point. Those people you are calling "idiots" are the ones paying the bills. They're the ones keeping the game you play "without spending a dime" online and running.
They are the people the developers are targeting. You - those not spending anything - aren't.
Look past the sassy PR, ignore the spiffy advertising with the word "FREE!" plastered everywhere and think about it.
Perspective... It helps.
With the understanding that people spending money are who the developers are targeting, we can now move on to what is - to myself and others - the real crux of the issue... That is, how they go about getting people to spend that money. And to understand that at the 10,000 foot, "big picture" level, you need only read the quote in my signature which reads, to paraphrase:
"If you take a step back, you will clearly see all the potholes and the cash shop selling asphalt".
Are the developers lying by calling it free? No. Technically, they are telling the truth. What they are, however, is deceptive in how the game is designed.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I was saying the same thing when talking to the gf about the deletions - that I had not thought your post was baiting - that where mine had been short emphasis - you were just emphasizing as well, and that it was kind of funny.
There's no doubt that we disagree on many of the aspects of the F2P model, but it was the most civil and sticking to the point discussion I think I've ever had on it. Hence the, ahem, description that I used that was edited out - heh, cause that is what it usually ends up being. Which this was not...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
You're right, it is a matter of perspective. It's also mostly a matter of patience. I believe, from reading many many posts on this issue, that most people who complain about F2P games and their cash shops basically don't like the grindy aspect of these games, or the relatively slow leveling within the games. Hence, they buy the XP boosts, and pots, etc. Then they turn around and complain about all the money they spent. I agree, F2P devs are in the business of making money. One way they have figured out to make money is to offer their product for free, then charge for extras. They are very up front about it. If you download just about any F2P game and immediately check out all the stuff in their cash shop, you can get a very good idea of what you may be facing. Also do some research into how others feel about the playability of the game. If you're one of those whose ADD prevents you from having the patience to grind your way through a game, don't play it. Go play a sub based game because they don't try to funnel you into paying as much as they can get you to.
You talk about the cash shop selling the asphalt for the potholes. What is a sub based game doing other than selling you the car (the box) and then selling you the permission to drive it?
Frankly, I don't think that F2P devs are any more deceptive in their offerings than any P2P game.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
It seems like the western games that have converted to so called F2P have been the masters of allowing only limited access to the game and then forcing you to pay to get the rest. I call these, Pay 2 finish games. EQ2 and LOTRO are like this. I guess it comes from the whole DLC concept. Then add to that the idea of allowing only so much inventory space unless you buy it. Again this falls more in the DLC category because they really give you no options for getting say your last two bags in the game. you only get those slots with a subscription or something like that. In the west, as has been mentioned, we have also essentially “perfected” the double and triple dipping strategies of sub + cashshop + box? + expansions? This can be fine if it is kept to a limit. What WoW does is probably fine, selling a few vanity pets or mounts is not a big deal. What EQ2X does is considerably more greedy and will probably sink them in the long run.
But that shouldn't be confused with the type of F2P games that have more often come from the east like Perfect World and the soon coming update to Lineage 2 that allow you full access to the game world, all the races and classes, all levels and give you at least a way to expand your inventory to the max without paying for it. Of course who wants to way another 30 levels to get a ghetto slow flying mount when you can pay for something much faster and get it much sooner? But I think the big difference between these two flavors of free to play is that everything is available to the non-paying player in the eastern model. It is very very, very slow to get but it is available and that makes a big difference.
I don't think it is legitimate to say that nobody pays nothing for these games and those who say they do are lying. Some people have more time on their hand. Kids. People on disability. They often have little extra cash but a whole lot of extra time. And that is the trick to these games. Some people are willing to take the time to farm up 10 million tiny coins and sell them to a rich person for something bought from the cash shop or in games that support it sell it directly for the cash shop cash. This way the cash poor/time rich can get access to the goodies in the cash shop just as the cash rich/time poor player can. Trading time for game currency is really what EVE's Plex system is all about as well. People do play for free but they have to have both time and patience.
Keep in mind that here on this board most posters are gamers in the proper sense and that means we tend to be more competitive. F2P cash shop games can financially gut those who are hyper competitive. If there is a way to get ahead and get there first we tend to want to take it. And in those games cash is the fastest way there. But keep in mind that it doesn't have to equate to Pay 2 Win. Getting to the end game before anyone else might be seen as "winning" to the hyper competitive types but after most people are already there, getting though the leveling simply changes the time frame for when a new person will enter the end game as well. Paying for pre-endgame leveling boosts doesn't change the endgame it just changes who is in it and when. What needs to be avoided are those thing that could skew the balance of the endgame itself. Like selling endgame buffs or gear that are unique to the cash shop. It is one thing to sell a pot called buffer-in-a-bottle that simply gives you the same 8 buffs that a player who plays the buffer can give you for free, and the bottle-o-bad-ass that doubles your uber which has no equivalent in the game. The later is bad, very bad. Same goes for gear.
My point is that there are better and worse ways to handle free to play. Perfect World I think is on the bit better side but they still have some very evil tendencies. Like preying on those with gambling addiction or making some of the high end gear all but impossible to craft without cashshopping. Setting this stuff up right also requires some common sense ethics which doesn't seem to be all too common any more. But the possibility is still there.
I am curious to see how Lineage 2 will handle their move to F2P. They seem to "get it". at least in principle from what they have said and written about concerning "Truly Free". They get that you shouldn't split your community into cool kids and kids in corduroy, it is just not right. They have somewhat emphasized that they will be selling leveling enhancements and vanity items but then they have also hinted at selling buffs and other supplies. Will the buffs effect endgame? If they are anything like the buff items that are given during events then, no not really. they are usually just items that give you buffs that are duplicates of the spells from the buffing classes. Borderline but not quite game breaking. They have also mentioned that some cash shop items will be sellable. If they make tradable anything that is "game effecting" then that also allows people to trade their time in the form of adena for items from the cash shop. I would rather see an ncoin marketplace like PW has but perhaps they are working on it and just don't have it ready yet. who knows.
I also suspect that since L2 is a long standing and well developed PvP endgame that they will not do anything to jack up its balance. But given its long history of being a slow leveling grind game they will have little problem making money off those with less time and more cash who wish to speed up the leveling process a bit. L2 stands in a good spot to take over the free to play market since PW was largely copied from L2 and even with dated graphics still comes across as a much higher quality game than PW. While F2P will never supplant P2P I think L2 will soon be considered the gold standard for how F2P should be done.
All die, so die well.
This was a lot to read but I enjoyed it.
"TO MICHAEL!"
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Seems like this article is to vent the greatness of P2p games and specialy games like WOW. Since everyone seems to believe it is the only game worth playing worth paying for and pay non stop, but in order to that you need to spend some cash every month "14,95$", as for the F2P you will spend more money since you do it every day apparantly.
I've seen many people play Both side of the coins P2P like wow and etc and then F2P. Most of the time if you dont pay that monthly fee at the end of the month you either buy a life time subscription or simply dont play the next month and wait till you can pay for the next month and so on,and when we turn on the other side of the dime we have the free to play experience some of us play games like the turbine games or the asian game of PWE and gpotato and the MMOBA like Leagues of legends etc.
The majority of the players have that option to play the game and grind happily and make points those points are rewards from quest and so on, basically you really are not forced to spend any dime in the game, unless you feel like it is a must in order to level quickly you have to spend money so that you can be at the top, like you have a reputation to futfill and show the community how quickly you can level your toon to the highest level.
I have played P2P games like Eve and wow from their launch and i can tell you when i did the math and see how much have spend each for those game i am sure not everyone will believe me. Just recently i started playing those F2P games that apparantly put you on broke days and so on, i actually have no problem with them because i am not forced nor feel the rush to buy anything in the cashshop, f2p is similar to our real life story (Are we forced to go to the mall everyday and be on shopping spree to consume consume ?) or (do we use the mall only because we are in need of something and we only make that stop only to get that item ?) and then you move on with your life, it is pretty much the same thing in a free to play game its not like you are forced to be on top the game is here to be enjoyed as life is to be enjoyed and not to actually feel like there is a rush or you will be missing that world wonder you are so after that by being at the last level feel better about yourself. For me i dont have that feel of spending urge in a game cause i think when a game is free to play it is meant to be enjoyed to run arround and to actually to those quests and kill those beast and level slowly but surely and also take the time to enjoy the other things that are around us in life that by sitting behind a comp we might end up missing.