For me if an MMO wants to be truly "Social" and leave its "Multi-Player" roots, then MMOs should start doing it like Facebook. Really. People should have concrete identities in MMOs if we are going more on the social path, because to be honest, with MMO's (and the net's) structure, anonymity online, plus the fact that MMOs give players the illusion of power, we are looking at a tool that can potentially destroy one's values and etiquette.
Back then when MMOs were about RPGs on a massive scale, players role-play. They act within the character of the toon you created. If you create a female healer, bets are you are the nice, helpful, and lovely player who everyone wants to be with. When you create a warrior, you're usually the one who shouts "RAWR" before engaging in a dungeon run or a boss fight. When you create an assassin/rogue character, you're usually the cool silent type. Back then it's about creating a character and roleplaying it.
Right now it's kinda different. As MMOs become more streamlined and accessible to several types of audience, the game is starting to have a larger, more diverse audience. This time around, you can't expect everyone to roleplay. The original roleplayers aren't the majority anymore. MMOs are now owned by everyone. So if MMOs want to really be social, they should also create good social models for their game.
I wish this only applied to my gaming habbits. The truth is far more worrisome, that I've actually come to the point in which I don't want to be surrounded by any manner of individual in any social situation unless I already know them. It's hard to meet new people with an outlook on life in which deems the time or trouble it would take to interface with another human being worth the effort. In so many ways, the variables which define our personalities are so varied and widespread that honest connection can almost become a deterrent to completing objectives (which mostly applies to gaming), and in becoming more connected as a society, or any group of people, we are actually becoming more isolated. In ways unrelated to the human psyche, simply having all of our actions and activities electronically recorded somewhere, essentially the step before making all of this knowledge publically accessible such as we've seen with Facebook and Twitter, inherrent and constant connection to other people can actually be quite damaging.
Long and short? I agree. People (in general) can suck a chode.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
All I'm looking for is a little courtesy, for people to drop the childish act. Either they take things too seriously, or they care too little to provide any lasting impression or appeal. Is it really fun to play like that?
Think about it next time you wig out on some guy for not putting out enough heals, or while you're verbally attacking them for killing you too many times, or saying something stupid in chat just to piss people off.
I honestly care very little, I don't take games seriously at all. And yeah, it's fun for me.
I don't, however, do any of the things you've mentioned here. Why should I do that? I don't care if I'm dead - I know that a healer did the best he could, for example, so what if his best was not good enoug? So I died; big deal; we'll try again. I never get angry when killed in pvp, at all - the most I'll say is "that was a good one. gg, have a nice time". As for chat, ignore, indeed, is my friend; why, on this very forum half of threads consist of blocked messages, for me!
With most of your posts...I somehow doubt your calm and collective when you die, etc. Sound like the typical modern MMO player with a chip on their shoulder. IMO of course.
Okay, maybe not "you people" specifically, meaning MMORPG.com members. Maybe not even the silent majority of game-players going about their day fulfilling their in-game objectives and interacting in their closed circle of players.
We subject ourselves to these communities rife with players who are jaded, expletive, retaliatory, childish, and a slew of other adjectives, and not only do we subject ourselves to them, but when we feel a game lacks enough of this community involvement - WE portray a number of those adjectives as well voicing our displeasure.
Whether they're incessantly babbling about WoW being the first MMO in the newest up and coming title or sending you 3 voice messages after a Gears of War 3 match to tell you how much skill you -don't- have because you used a sawed off shotgun to kill them, this kind of community is prevalent everywhere. Is this the kind of community we're complaining we need more of?
While combating this, we also have a predominent selfish tendancy in online gaming now. Even when being forced to be completely reliant on other players to accomplish certain tasks, a great majority of the community employs the "love'em and leave'em" strategy. Join the group, converse as little as possible, and leave as soon as you get the reward. How does this breed any kind of good community?
I'm not saying you have to be social, I'm not even saying you have to stick around for a few quests... but when you group it would be great to acknowledge that other players exist... maybe coordinate with them, or work as a team.
So at the end of the day, I don't want to play with you people. I want a community, but not if I'm stuck with players like you - random online gamer. You make me happy single player games still exist.
Am I alone in this?
I understand your impression and I very much share it.
But, though I guess most people don't like to hear that, I TRULY think it is also a flaw of our times. I guess never before have people been so self centered, so much absorbed in "doing their own thing" in life generally. People have no sense for a "we", for investing in communities anymore as much as in the past. Our society as a whole has shifted towards instant (and low quality) gratification (McDonaldization of society) and being as "free" as possible. People measure even relationships only in profitability. "Is my effort put into this relationship bring profitable output?" It is the total materialization of all human relations, and the question only is "what do I gain for this" and "how do I gain the most with a minimum of effort?"
Sad times to live in that all that wonderful freedom only created egocentric "kidults". (Kidult = adult who prefers to act like a self centered, spoilt child.)
For me if an MMO wants to be truly "Social" and leave its "Multi-Player" roots, then MMOs should start doing it like Facebook. Really. People should have concrete identities in MMOs if we are going more on the social path, because to be honest, with MMO's (and the net's) structure, anonymity online, plus the fact that MMOs give players the illusion of power, we are looking at a tool that can potentially destroy one's values and etiquette.
Back then when MMOs were about RPGs on a massive scale, players role-play. They act within the character of the toon you created. If you create a female healer, bets are you are the nice, helpful, and lovely player who everyone wants to be with. When you create a warrior, you're usually the one who shouts "RAWR" before engaging in a dungeon run or a boss fight. When you create an assassin/rogue character, you're usually the cool silent type. Back then it's about creating a character and roleplaying it.
Right now it's kinda different. As MMOs become more streamlined and accessible to several types of audience, the game is starting to have a larger, more diverse audience. This time around, you can't expect everyone to roleplay. The original roleplayers aren't the majority anymore. MMOs are now owned by everyone. So if MMOs want to really be social, they should also create good social models for their game.
Some people want "social" in the MMO... not "social" out of it.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
its hard to develop a community when the games themselves maike it so easy to avoid others.
WoWs LFG tools started the downfall tehre. then the xfers and lastly the cross faction xfers totally killed any semblence of community the game once had.
Rifts weekly server xfers killed them there.
sorry, those are the only 2 games i've played for any extended period of time since SWG. SWG had great communities. WoW was pretty good at tyhe start.
nowadays there is no reason to get to know, or even be nice to people you game with. outside of your own guild that is.
the players were given tons of rope and then hung themselves with it rather quickly
How can WoW's LFG tool be the cause of a bad community, when you same people were saying WoW had a bad community before they added that to the game....
If I'm not mistaken, the cross-server dungeon finder was implemented after cross-faction transfers.
I do love all the rose colored glasses people are looking through when referencing old school WoW, partially because I was around MMORPGs enough at the time to know how it really was. WoW was never hard. WoW was always the MMO for toddlers. WoW always had a crappy community full of kids.
Also agree.I get flamed for bringing this up, as will you more than likely...although I played it from release until BC...as if I had no clue of the way it was. Hell...quit playing it BECAUSE of the community...or lack there of.
For me if an MMO wants to be truly "Social" and leave its "Multi-Player" roots, then MMOs should start doing it like Facebook. Really. People should have concrete identities in MMOs if we are going more on the social path, because to be honest, with MMO's (and the net's) structure, anonymity online, plus the fact that MMOs give players the illusion of power, we are looking at a tool that can potentially destroy one's values and etiquette.
Back then when MMOs were about RPGs on a massive scale, players role-play. They act within the character of the toon you created. If you create a female healer, bets are you are the nice, helpful, and lovely player who everyone wants to be with. When you create a warrior, you're usually the one who shouts "RAWR" before engaging in a dungeon run or a boss fight. When you create an assassin/rogue character, you're usually the cool silent type. Back then it's about creating a character and roleplaying it.
Right now it's kinda different. As MMOs become more streamlined and accessible to several types of audience, the game is starting to have a larger, more diverse audience. This time around, you can't expect everyone to roleplay. The original roleplayers aren't the majority anymore. MMOs are now owned by everyone. So if MMOs want to really be social, they should also create good social models for their game.
Some people want "social" in the MMO... not "social" out of it.
that's what I was saying. It's harder these days because of how MMOs are made. Back then it was easy because people roleplay--which also means people apply specfic social roles because of the characters they play.
These days, it's hard to find that in MMOs, in which I personally believe is caused by modern MMO's designs. That's why I proposed a "Social" aspect outside of the game, in order to bring back the acceptable community back then. Since MMOs are getting more and more streamlined and more and more available to a bigger audience, it's harder to create a good community given the higher chance you'll meet unlikeable people (given the anonymity one has online and the adrenaline rush you get from the competitive aspects of MMOs). If people knew each other outside of the game, maybe it'll help contain the community better.
when we feel a game lacks enough of this community involvement - WE portray a number of those adjectives
Am I alone in this?
Probably not. Any generally negative post will always draw a fairly substantial host of "me toos".
But you are speaking for WE instead of yourself, a dangerous and self-deluding practice.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
For me if an MMO wants to be truly "Social" and leave its "Multi-Player" roots, then MMOs should start doing it like Facebook. Really. People should have concrete identities in MMOs if we are going more on the social path, because to be honest, with MMO's (and the net's) structure, anonymity online, plus the fact that MMOs give players the illusion of power, we are looking at a tool that can potentially destroy one's values and etiquette.
Back then when MMOs were about RPGs on a massive scale, players role-play. They act within the character of the toon you created. If you create a female healer, bets are you are the nice, helpful, and lovely player who everyone wants to be with. When you create a warrior, you're usually the one who shouts "RAWR" before engaging in a dungeon run or a boss fight. When you create an assassin/rogue character, you're usually the cool silent type. Back then it's about creating a character and roleplaying it.
Right now it's kinda different. As MMOs become more streamlined and accessible to several types of audience, the game is starting to have a larger, more diverse audience. This time around, you can't expect everyone to roleplay. The original roleplayers aren't the majority anymore. MMOs are now owned by everyone. So if MMOs want to really be social, they should also create good social models for their game.
Some people want "social" in the MMO... not "social" out of it.
that's what I was saying. It's harder these days because of how MMOs are made. Back then it was easy because people roleplay--which also means people apply specfic social roles because of the characters they play.
These days, it's hard to find that in MMOs, in which I personally believe is caused by modern MMO's designs. That's why I proposed a "Social" aspect outside of the game, in order to bring back the acceptable community back then. Since MMOs are getting more and more streamlined and more and more available to a bigger audience, it's harder to create a good community given the higher chance you'll meet unlikeable people (given the anonymity one has online and the adrenaline rush you get from the competitive aspects of MMOs). If people knew each other outside of the game, maybe it'll help contain the community better.
Because then, MMO's started with the same people who played pen and paper D&D/Rifts (Not the MMO) and were quite use to RPing and gettign immersed in fantasy worlds. Now the community consists of the FPS/console crowd more than anything where communication is lacking, or simply consists of "You suck!11!", "Noob!", &(*$#@!11!", etc, etc..
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences.
The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
For me if an MMO wants to be truly "Social" and leave its "Multi-Player" roots, then MMOs should start doing it like Facebook. Really. People should have concrete identities in MMOs if we are going more on the social path, because to be honest, with MMO's (and the net's) structure, anonymity online, plus the fact that MMOs give players the illusion of power, we are looking at a tool that can potentially destroy one's values and etiquette.
Back then when MMOs were about RPGs on a massive scale, players role-play. They act within the character of the toon you created. If you create a female healer, bets are you are the nice, helpful, and lovely player who everyone wants to be with. When you create a warrior, you're usually the one who shouts "RAWR" before engaging in a dungeon run or a boss fight. When you create an assassin/rogue character, you're usually the cool silent type. Back then it's about creating a character and roleplaying it.
Right now it's kinda different. As MMOs become more streamlined and accessible to several types of audience, the game is starting to have a larger, more diverse audience. This time around, you can't expect everyone to roleplay. The original roleplayers aren't the majority anymore. MMOs are now owned by everyone. So if MMOs want to really be social, they should also create good social models for their game.
Some people want "social" in the MMO... not "social" out of it.
that's what I was saying. It's harder these days because of how MMOs are made. Back then it was easy because people roleplay--which also means people apply specfic social roles because of the characters they play.
These days, it's hard to find that in MMOs, in which I personally believe is caused by modern MMO's designs. That's why I proposed a "Social" aspect outside of the game, in order to bring back the acceptable community back then. Since MMOs are getting more and more streamlined and more and more available to a bigger audience, it's harder to create a good community given the higher chance you'll meet unlikeable people (given the anonymity one has online and the adrenaline rush you get from the competitive aspects of MMOs). If people knew each other outside of the game, maybe it'll help contain the community better.
Because then, MMO's started with the same people who played pen and paprer D&D/Rifts (Not the MMO). Now the community consists of the FPS/console crowd more than anything.
In theory, we should have those MMOAGs for them and the MMORPGs for those with their roots in PnP, etc - or who want to experience that.
There are several similar discussions going on about various things related to the MMORPG genre - I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into the others, but the overall gist feels like some of us are neanderthals on the verge of extinction as the genre evolves past us. We're in the minority, and game developers have made it increasingly clear that we no longer matter.
All they had to do was make two games.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences.
The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
That is basically because EQ is from the 'pre-solo-centric' era of MMOs. This is also the root of the issue. In the early years of MMOs all games were group and community centric... meaning that you needed other players to get anywhere in the game. This prevailed in all aspects of game play from crafting, buying and selling to leveling, questing and character progression. This forced the communities of those games to adopt a more friendly and helpful atmosphere because although there were still a few asshats they usually didn't last very long as they found it very difficult to progress with a bad reputation. Friendly and helpful players found that this attitude made the whole game experience better as you could get groups easily and you always knew someone who could help when you needed a special item, piece of gear or help with a quest. Also without Auction houses players actually had to interact with one another to buy and sell. This affected the whole community and made it more unified.
Now you have mostly games you can play all the way to max level and beyond without the need to interact with another player for any reason. This makes most players think about themselves first and others become more of a hinderence than a possible boon. Why should I share my experience and loot when I can just as easily have it all for myself? This is the type of attitude that prevails in today's MMOs. Solocentric gameplay has killed the helpful communities we all knew and loved.
Bren
When I played Dark Age of Camelot, I was about 15 so I was young and a little rough around the edges like most people that age. However, I loved Dark Age of Camelot's nice community. I loved going around buffing people and they'd say TY and I'd say You're Welcome and so on and so forth. Trading each other items to give to our alts was a commonplace thing and I was never robbed once primarily because everyone knew that this was the only way to give items. There were no mailboxes back then. However, the friends that had introduced me to Dark Age of Camelot in the first place brought me there to PvP and were also my age, and weren't there to be very nice players. We were there to not be noobs and to own noobs. I'm generally a shy person so I don't like to grief. So I kept them under my wing when I could. They would do things that were way too far like stealing kills and standing on top of people as they tried to farm and weren't trying to bother anyone all because they wanted to take their camp from them and make them leave. They scammed other players out of anything they could. They wanted to be kings of the server.
While the nature of Dark Age of Camelot was helpful in keeping people like my friends from being bad in some ways and with me trying to tell them to tone some of it down, it was mostly just surface-level. They smile to your face but would steal all your money underneath if it was worth it. When the Mordred Free For All server came out they immediately went there and left me. I stayed on the normal server with one friend who also stayed. Just when I thought this friend was going to be better than the ones who went to Mordred, this very friend stole 15 platinum from a player when they accidentally meant to give gold. I told him I'd stop being friends with them if they don't give it back like a good friend is supposed to, but then I caved when he traded some of it to me. He said he's sorry and stuff and it usually led to it being stopped most of the time, but nevertheless, these were the crazy friends I had Online.
Since I took the money, you can say I'm just as bad having done that. However, you can at least give me some credit for trying to teach my friends to play nice and since I did it years ago while I was a teenager. I can see the good reasons for griefing also. Developers usually see griefing as a challenge to code their game simpler and simpler so people can't grief at all; but that really just kills all the fun. As long as griefing is done properly it can lead to a harmless game of cops vs. robbers as long as the robbers don't do anything stupid like stealing really important items like we did. That's what Game Masters are for.
When a player is on top of a wall that they aren't supposed to be on, then game masters should watch that player but do nothing. When the player begins to kill and grief other players while they are up there, then the game master should step in and stop it. Don't throw a huge fit over that and remove the exploit that lets you up there. Simply remove the ability to grief while up there. You know?
Anyways, I just realized I'm going way off track there. The point being, I do miss the friendly atmosphere of Dark Age of Camelot, but sometimes it was a little too forced. There were times when I just wanted to level in peace without buffs and some guy would come running over and cast all their buffs and expect a thank you lol. It got to be a little too expected.
One time I was climbing on stuff in Camelot City just for fun and a GM got mad and scolded me just for that which led me to want to do worse things because of rebellion. Sometimes I think Developers and GMs cause the rebellion.
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences. The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences.
The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
Weird would be the folks thinking it normal...
...I guess I'm one of those old farts screaming at the kids to get off their lawn, lol.
I type LOL. I do not think it. I do not speak it.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences. The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
Weird would be the folks thinking it normal...
...I guess I'm one of those old farts screaming at the kids to get off their lawn, lol.
I type LOL. I do not think it. I do not speak it.
Yeah I like to speak lol when something really makes me smile, and I almost want to laugh really loud (otherwise I would just laugh...)
But yeah. In one of my Software Engineering projects, a bunch of us was saying lol casually while writing thousands of lines of java code. It's quite a fun word. Maybe it's only for us software engineering nerds. I dunno.
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences.
The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
Weird would be the folks thinking it normal...
...I guess I'm one of those old farts screaming at the kids to get off their lawn, lol.
I type LOL. I do not think it. I do not speak it.
Yeah I like to speak lol when something really makes me smile, and I almost want to laugh really loud (otherwise I would just laugh...)
But yeah. In one of my Software Engineering projects, a bunch of us was saying lol casually while writing thousands of lines of java code. It's quite a fun word. Maybe it's only for us software engineering nerds. I dunno.
Heh, could just be a generation thing - 13 years older, based on the profiles here.
I remember back in the early 80s I was at the store with a friend, we were pointing to a few things and saying they were awesome. A mother was there with her kid in the cart, and he started shouting awesome while pointing to everything...heh, she gave us the evil eye.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I feel the exact same way as the OP...I found a really nice mature community in Vanguard but at the same time I'm still feeling very burnt out on MMOs. I can say a handful of times I've been that rude, obnoxious, overbearing jerk that seem to plague MMOs these days. It is so easy to forget that there is someone else just like you on the other end taking the abuse you are dishing out. This is the reason I bought a Xbox 360 and single player games. FPS on Xbox Live can be worse than MMOs.
I feel the exact same way as the OP...I found a really nice mature community in Vanguard but at the same time I'm still feeling very burnt out on MMOs. I can say a handful of times I've been that rude, obnoxious, overbearing jerk that seem to plague MMOs these days. It is so easy to forget that there is someone else just like you on the other end taking the abuse you are dishing out. This is the reason I bought a Xbox 360 and single player games. FPS on Xbox Live can be worse than MMOs.
I'd definitely agree on that - where often people will say things online that they would not in person. Add in the various things that might be going wrong, and some people can way over the deep end - so to speak.
The other thing to keep in mind though about "typed conversations" - is that they are missing tone, unless it is explicitly stated. It is very easy to think somebody is saying something with a certain tone when they are not.
You might call yourself a dumbass for something. Certain friends could call you a dumbass in a joking tone. The random stranger on the street calling you dumbass on the other hand...
...take that online without being sure of the tone - and - things can get out of hand quickly.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
No you're not alone and MMO communities will only get worse over time, as the devs keep targetting younger and younger audiences.
The problem isn't young people. The problem is young people who learned about social interaction on the internet. These people know nothing of common courtesy and mutual respect. They're hopeless and have irreversibly taken over the MMO scene.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
Weird would be the folks thinking it normal...
...I guess I'm one of those old farts screaming at the kids to get off their lawn, lol.
I type LOL. I do not think it. I do not speak it.
Yeah I like to speak lol when something really makes me smile, and I almost want to laugh really loud (otherwise I would just laugh...)
But yeah. In one of my Software Engineering projects, a bunch of us was saying lol casually while writing thousands of lines of java code. It's quite a fun word. Maybe it's only for us software engineering nerds. I dunno.
I just don't get saying lol. There isn't really a point, unless, perhaps, you were a robot... or a dog... where the ability to laugh wasn't possible or didn't compute. I could only imagine saying lol to my wife and having her kick me in the face.
That said, the whole social ineptitude outside of gaming is a whole different matter. I think it was going on a long time before online games started, though with the inclusion of an online society it sure hastens the process of broadening the social ineptitude of the next generation. But... thats a different thread entirely.
What do YOU mean by YOU PEOPLE? **Movie Tropic Thunder quote***
***Raving rabbid Awaits Kate beckensale's role in new Toal Recall remake!***
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Comments
For me if an MMO wants to be truly "Social" and leave its "Multi-Player" roots, then MMOs should start doing it like Facebook. Really. People should have concrete identities in MMOs if we are going more on the social path, because to be honest, with MMO's (and the net's) structure, anonymity online, plus the fact that MMOs give players the illusion of power, we are looking at a tool that can potentially destroy one's values and etiquette.
Back then when MMOs were about RPGs on a massive scale, players role-play. They act within the character of the toon you created. If you create a female healer, bets are you are the nice, helpful, and lovely player who everyone wants to be with. When you create a warrior, you're usually the one who shouts "RAWR" before engaging in a dungeon run or a boss fight. When you create an assassin/rogue character, you're usually the cool silent type. Back then it's about creating a character and roleplaying it.
Right now it's kinda different. As MMOs become more streamlined and accessible to several types of audience, the game is starting to have a larger, more diverse audience. This time around, you can't expect everyone to roleplay. The original roleplayers aren't the majority anymore. MMOs are now owned by everyone. So if MMOs want to really be social, they should also create good social models for their game.
My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/
Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/
Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion
I wish this only applied to my gaming habbits. The truth is far more worrisome, that I've actually come to the point in which I don't want to be surrounded by any manner of individual in any social situation unless I already know them. It's hard to meet new people with an outlook on life in which deems the time or trouble it would take to interface with another human being worth the effort. In so many ways, the variables which define our personalities are so varied and widespread that honest connection can almost become a deterrent to completing objectives (which mostly applies to gaming), and in becoming more connected as a society, or any group of people, we are actually becoming more isolated. In ways unrelated to the human psyche, simply having all of our actions and activities electronically recorded somewhere, essentially the step before making all of this knowledge publically accessible such as we've seen with Facebook and Twitter, inherrent and constant connection to other people can actually be quite damaging.
Long and short? I agree. People (in general) can suck a chode.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
With most of your posts...I somehow doubt your calm and collective when you die, etc. Sound like the typical modern MMO player with a chip on their shoulder. IMO of course.
QFT
What do YOU mean you people!? ;P
Some people want "social" in the MMO... not "social" out of it.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Also agree.I get flamed for bringing this up, as will you more than likely...although I played it from release until BC...as if I had no clue of the way it was. Hell...quit playing it BECAUSE of the community...or lack there of.
that's what I was saying. It's harder these days because of how MMOs are made. Back then it was easy because people roleplay--which also means people apply specfic social roles because of the characters they play.
These days, it's hard to find that in MMOs, in which I personally believe is caused by modern MMO's designs. That's why I proposed a "Social" aspect outside of the game, in order to bring back the acceptable community back then. Since MMOs are getting more and more streamlined and more and more available to a bigger audience, it's harder to create a good community given the higher chance you'll meet unlikeable people (given the anonymity one has online and the adrenaline rush you get from the competitive aspects of MMOs). If people knew each other outside of the game, maybe it'll help contain the community better.
My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/
Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/
Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion
Probably not. Any generally negative post will always draw a fairly substantial host of "me toos".
But you are speaking for WE instead of yourself, a dangerous and self-deluding practice.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Because then, MMO's started with the same people who played pen and paper D&D/Rifts (Not the MMO) and were quite use to RPing and gettign immersed in fantasy worlds. Now the community consists of the FPS/console crowd more than anything where communication is lacking, or simply consists of "You suck!11!", "Noob!", &(*$#@!11!", etc, etc..
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
In theory, we should have those MMOAGs for them and the MMORPGs for those with their roots in PnP, etc - or who want to experience that.
There are several similar discussions going on about various things related to the MMORPG genre - I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into the others, but the overall gist feels like some of us are neanderthals on the verge of extinction as the genre evolves past us. We're in the minority, and game developers have made it increasingly clear that we no longer matter.
All they had to do was make two games.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
When I played Dark Age of Camelot, I was about 15 so I was young and a little rough around the edges like most people that age. However, I loved Dark Age of Camelot's nice community. I loved going around buffing people and they'd say TY and I'd say You're Welcome and so on and so forth. Trading each other items to give to our alts was a commonplace thing and I was never robbed once primarily because everyone knew that this was the only way to give items. There were no mailboxes back then. However, the friends that had introduced me to Dark Age of Camelot in the first place brought me there to PvP and were also my age, and weren't there to be very nice players. We were there to not be noobs and to own noobs. I'm generally a shy person so I don't like to grief. So I kept them under my wing when I could. They would do things that were way too far like stealing kills and standing on top of people as they tried to farm and weren't trying to bother anyone all because they wanted to take their camp from them and make them leave. They scammed other players out of anything they could. They wanted to be kings of the server.
While the nature of Dark Age of Camelot was helpful in keeping people like my friends from being bad in some ways and with me trying to tell them to tone some of it down, it was mostly just surface-level. They smile to your face but would steal all your money underneath if it was worth it. When the Mordred Free For All server came out they immediately went there and left me. I stayed on the normal server with one friend who also stayed. Just when I thought this friend was going to be better than the ones who went to Mordred, this very friend stole 15 platinum from a player when they accidentally meant to give gold. I told him I'd stop being friends with them if they don't give it back like a good friend is supposed to, but then I caved when he traded some of it to me. He said he's sorry and stuff and it usually led to it being stopped most of the time, but nevertheless, these were the crazy friends I had Online.
Since I took the money, you can say I'm just as bad having done that. However, you can at least give me some credit for trying to teach my friends to play nice and since I did it years ago while I was a teenager. I can see the good reasons for griefing also. Developers usually see griefing as a challenge to code their game simpler and simpler so people can't grief at all; but that really just kills all the fun. As long as griefing is done properly it can lead to a harmless game of cops vs. robbers as long as the robbers don't do anything stupid like stealing really important items like we did. That's what Game Masters are for.
When a player is on top of a wall that they aren't supposed to be on, then game masters should watch that player but do nothing. When the player begins to kill and grief other players while they are up there, then the game master should step in and stop it. Don't throw a huge fit over that and remove the exploit that lets you up there. Simply remove the ability to grief while up there. You know?
Anyways, I just realized I'm going way off track there. The point being, I do miss the friendly atmosphere of Dark Age of Camelot, but sometimes it was a little too forced. There were times when I just wanted to level in peace without buffs and some guy would come running over and cast all their buffs and expect a thank you lol. It got to be a little too expected.
One time I was climbing on stuff in Camelot City just for fun and a GM got mad and scolded me just for that which led me to want to do worse things because of rebellion. Sometimes I think Developers and GMs cause the rebellion.
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnbdk7XWuTI&feature=related i think this clip perfectly captures the sentiment of current mmo culture. they will from fringe awesomeness, to...widespread success.
Weird would be the folks thinking it normal...
...I guess I'm one of those old farts screaming at the kids to get off their lawn, lol.
I type LOL. I do not think it. I do not speak it.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Its not just MMO's it is gaming communities as a whole. The problem is not so much young people but the attitudes & values that seem to have infiltrated the majority of their minds, along with their contenment having poor literacy and numeracy skills.
The more the internet is integrated into our daily lives (particularly through the insidious "social nework" a name that is a total misnomer) the more we lose touch with our ability to connect and interact person to person, then people take these poor abilities online where they think "ooh im anonymous I can do whatever I want" and the results are what we are seeing now.
When you encounter teens who are actually using LOL, LOLZ and MAD LOLZ in face to face verbal conversation you should feel worried, me personally I feel like I need to slap them.
Do you remember the first time you heard somebody actually say LOL...?
I can't even begin to explain how I felt at that moment...
Weird. Lots of people verbally say lol. Especially in college. Not in any formal settings like presentations of course. Unless you mean shouting LOL LOL LOL then yes, I would want to slap them for being so unpleasantly loud. But just saying lol is fine and pleasant. If you don't like it, then I'd be worried how you'd feel around somebody conversing in leetspeek for fun.
Weird would be the folks thinking it normal...
...I guess I'm one of those old farts screaming at the kids to get off their lawn, lol.
I type LOL. I do not think it. I do not speak it.
Yeah I like to speak lol when something really makes me smile, and I almost want to laugh really loud (otherwise I would just laugh...)
But yeah. In one of my Software Engineering projects, a bunch of us was saying lol casually while writing thousands of lines of java code. It's quite a fun word. Maybe it's only for us software engineering nerds. I dunno.
This is my reason for being antisocial.
But yeah. Welcome to hell.
Heh, could just be a generation thing - 13 years older, based on the profiles here.
I remember back in the early 80s I was at the store with a friend, we were pointing to a few things and saying they were awesome. A mother was there with her kid in the cart, and he started shouting awesome while pointing to everything...heh, she gave us the evil eye.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I feel the exact same way as the OP...I found a really nice mature community in Vanguard but at the same time I'm still feeling very burnt out on MMOs. I can say a handful of times I've been that rude, obnoxious, overbearing jerk that seem to plague MMOs these days. It is so easy to forget that there is someone else just like you on the other end taking the abuse you are dishing out. This is the reason I bought a Xbox 360 and single player games. FPS on Xbox Live can be worse than MMOs.
I'd definitely agree on that - where often people will say things online that they would not in person. Add in the various things that might be going wrong, and some people can way over the deep end - so to speak.
The other thing to keep in mind though about "typed conversations" - is that they are missing tone, unless it is explicitly stated. It is very easy to think somebody is saying something with a certain tone when they are not.
You might call yourself a dumbass for something. Certain friends could call you a dumbass in a joking tone. The random stranger on the street calling you dumbass on the other hand...
...take that online without being sure of the tone - and - things can get out of hand quickly.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I just don't get saying lol. There isn't really a point, unless, perhaps, you were a robot... or a dog... where the ability to laugh wasn't possible or didn't compute. I could only imagine saying lol to my wife and having her kick me in the face.
That said, the whole social ineptitude outside of gaming is a whole different matter. I think it was going on a long time before online games started, though with the inclusion of an online society it sure hastens the process of broadening the social ineptitude of the next generation. But... thats a different thread entirely.
^
Game, set, and match.
What do YOU mean by YOU PEOPLE? **Movie Tropic Thunder quote***
***Raving rabbid Awaits Kate beckensale's role in new Toal Recall remake!***
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes