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Biggest immersion killing feature - the static world.
Margulis
Member CommonPosts: 1,614
I think this is one of the biggest problems with SWTOR right now and it doesn't seem to be getting the attention it deserves. The simple fact that the world just FEELS lifeless and static. Let me give a few examples:
1. Cities and social hubs - Running through these feels like a library or graveyard, not a bustling hub of activity. Why? Because the npc's are so static - like statues. There is hardly any ambient npc chatter, conversation, or sound and most of them are just stuck in place doing the same very minimal hand gestures over and over - like mimes. You also can't interact with any npc's unless they are a questgiver, for a small sentence or two of conversation like in other mmo's or the KOTOR games. There are a few examples of npc's "doing something", but those are in the great minority and even many of those are static in their actions and look extremely odd (Jedi seemingly stuck in place forever in the middle of casting a force power).
2. Mobs - A very high percentage of mobs just stand in place also, including non-aggro mobs. There is very little scripting / pathing for mobs in this game, much less than most mmo's - patrols are a rarity.
3. Critters / world creatures - Where are they? It's something you don't even really notice till they aren't there, but this game is severely lacking in them. The few that are there are also just stuck in place like statues (beast in Tython starting zone for example).
4. Music / sound effects - There are large amounts of time with no music, which I think should be increased. It could also help if there were added ambient sound effects in the game (birds chirping, bugs, npc chatter as discussed earlier, etc).
5. Instancing - Even when world elements don't provide liveliness or atmosphere, sometimes a large amount of players can make a location feel active. But with the instancing of every zone, there is never a place that feels truly busy or bustling with activity, at least in my opinion. This also combines to the lonely / empty / lifeless feel.
All of this combined = a very static and lifeless world.
The argument that "this is how all mmo's are" doesn't work at all, as many AAA mmo's over the last 5-8 years have done an excellent job creating what feels like a living world through ambient atmosphere, npc acitivty, npc conversations, npc and mob scripted pathing / events, lots of creatures running around, etc.
This post was originally made back in beta and was gone when the forums were overhauled. Decided to bring it back - it's a shame none of this was addressed with release and it appears this is just the design choice.
Jedi Temple:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24
Quest hub / social hub example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUdZn5v5sEU&feature=youtu.be
Mobs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9_hqGsnpp8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Comments
I thought the biggest killer of immersion was the fact that I had to use a keyboard to move my character and use skills.
I supported this over on the official forums, others should as well. It is one of the only MMO games I have played without any background/environment interaction. At the least NPC's should roam around, it is way to static.
Source thread on main fourms : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=678344
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-Currently playing FFXIV, and BDO.
Totally agree. After having played games like LOTRO and AoC (yes even WoW wasn't this static) the world design of SW:TOR is a sheer dissapointment.
The only thing that moves on Corrusant is the ship traffic lanes (wich is impressive by the way).
But all NPC's and mobs are totally static spawns, with no interaction whatsoever.
This pretty much goes for every other zone/planet.
They really need to do a ton of work on this to make the game feel more alive / more interactable.
Hey, that's my point.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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I'll admit I wasn't thrilled by the fact I couldn't click on NPC's standing around, and I couldn't interact with the little droids floating around the Sith Academy... BUT...
By no means does this change the fact that I had an enormous amount of fun with this game. The world is very Static, I agree, but that did not influence my experience in any way. The story made up for that, in my opinion.
Honestly, I could care less if an NPC doesn't respond to me or provide some sort of voiced response. If he's not an important character, it's ok by me. Many of the significant NPC's in the game DO respond to you if you are not allowed to accept quests from that at a given time. It's the guards and other insignifcant characters that are static... they are there for visual purposes anyways, like furniture. No relevant purpose = why do I want to speak with them anyways?
The story provided plenty of immersion for me... it's a game... not a "Second Life."
On this front, what bothered me were "little things" like the fact that Coruscant looked so cool but I couldn't really explore it. Most of Coruscant is just "scenery" for the handful of actual explorable areas on the planet.
I always thought it would have been really fun to just explore Coruscant. See the wealthy sections and the slums below, find interesting shops and hidden easter eggs. But it just isn't there. It's basically a staging area for story and quests and that's what it feels like.
I remember even in KOTOR, I felt that the first city you go to was much more interesting.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The problem is a lot bigger than just this, but you have a good start there.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I had great fun playing. Im sure they can work on these points but for me i dont mind them at the moment. They dont make the game any less fun.
And the music is pure star wars. Never had gaps in music, always felt like i was in the starwars universe.
Other thread got locked before I could post.
I expect better!!! I am consumer!!!Exactly. The game doesn't have expensive or quality feeling like say a car for 1m does. You look around and thinking where the hell all these millions they spend on it.Cost and result just doesn't add up. And they didn't even made game engine themselves.It feels like they used a year of developing with 15m budget.
Here is link to the game engine. It clearly shows how easy an fast they could build game with it HeroEngine
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
You had constantly playing music through the whole weekend?
I was actually going to post a review after this beta weekend for the game and this is one of the few points, along with the character customization that I would've dinged the game for. Early on it doesn't seem that big of a deal because the starter planets are fairly small. Over time though I found it started to eat at me a little bit, just how sterile everything felt. I also didn't find it took away from the fun factor of the game, but it did detract from the feeling that the world was alive. Hope this is something they will work on.
He probably meant that the music always had the star wars feel to it, not that it was constantly playing.
I mentioned this in game, and all the loyal diehards started attacking me verbally. They didn't want to hear any negative opinions about their "flawless" game. The mobs are static too. They just stand around and never move. I really expected more from a AAA title.
Nope not even close all of yall are wrong.The lone single pixel near the chat window is the biggest immersion killing feature.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
I saw a lot of that going on this weekend as well but tbh general chat was absolutely aweful anyway. I don't understand why folks say a game is flawless in beta, regardless of the title, feel that feedback is any more helpful to the developers than the rabid haters saying the game is crap.
LOL! I'm going to miss that little guy come launch.
I honestly never noticed the static world. I enjoyed the game but i did find myself saying "where did they spend the $150M+" It seems like any other MMO I have played just with added voice actors. I will be playing at luanch cause I like these kinds of MMO's but if you are in any way burntout of MMO's stay far away
Yeah, i feel also this world is to much a static one, but the Story grabs me so far and i have some Companions i can equip, so i forget about the static world at least as long the Story goes and i have fun to chase new equipment for me and my companions.
Its Bioware - good story, static world!
And its many years since the last "alive" mmo came out...maybe Skyrim gives some Brains a thought!
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MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
I agree with all the OPs points except two.
1. Music: I don't recall any times of silence with the music.
2. I don't want to hear NPCs talking too much, there are a few areas where npc's do talk and it's extremely annoying. Maybe if they talked a lot quieter, than I'd be onboard, but otherwise no.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
SWTOR's ceiling cat will always be watching.
Ok look at it this way, everyone worried about the static feel of the game world. Well I'll make a few examples of what I seen. Really there wasnt any point in the game that overly cought my eye and made me think there was anything wrong with the game till I got to Belmorra, near where this lady had a gun pointed at these people near the start port, right in front. They just stood there motionless like figureines. Thats when I realized there was something off about it, I made it to lvl 20 FYI.
IF you have played as many mmos as I have that are all AAA mmos then you would know that this isnt as bad as it may seem. Example would be warhammer online, does everyone remember how scriped the quest gving areas were for PvE quests in that game. Its like you could see the developers with there game engine droping in NPC's into one area and calling it a town etc...If you look at it from that point of view, all the quest gving areas always intrigued me and it was all well done.
When its said and done, I will remember my beta expierence with the feeling of SWTOR gave me. It was a feeling of new explored territories in mmos, ones that will for ever change the way we play mmorpgs. When ever a new mmo dev will make a new game, they will always look back at how well SWTOR made there role playing fit into the grand design of the game. It was this feeling that overcome any other complaits like how static the world was which for Bioware can be easily remedied. Its not like its a core game issue.
After playing Skyrim every games world feels static.
Personally compared to WoW, Lotro, WAR and RIFT (My last 4 themeparks) TOR is no more static than the ones i listed.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I couldn't really put my finger on why things felt so bland in this game - the worlds felt like places to walk through on the way to another voice over. After reading this thread I realise that the OP is exactly right, the places are just dead, there's no motion in them, no life, it's like walking through a painting. It looks nice but the static feel just makes it feel weird, a bit off.
I really do hope they fix this, I knew something didn't feel right but now I know what it is, which is going to make it even worse.
This
I didn't see any difference from SWTOR as the rest of those listed. I think we would all like mmos to be more like Skyrim or The Witcher 2 in how alive the worlds are. But we haven't seen that yet.
We wont see a world like Skyrim in the mmorpg genre in quite a while.
The tech isnt there imo. Think about all the little things in skyrim that would just break down once you place thousands of people in the world. Everything the system has to keep track off. its too much.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing