Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Combat Systems
musicmann
Member UncommonPosts: 1,095
Just would like to see how mmo gamers feel on this.
Comments
I think the combat systems needs a massive overhual. All I hear on the forums is " It's a button masher, no skill required, and the classes are the same just with different skins (maybe some animations too.)" I think that the A.I. needs to be way better, to provide a challenge. My enemies/companions should analyze the situation and respond accordingly, not just stand there giving/recieving as much damage as possible to kill before being killed. As for the button mashing, i was done with that phase after gauntlet D&D.
I like Vanguards class system:
- As a general rule, all classes have a lot of abilities. Button mashing wont occur here.
- Each class has its down challenges. For example, some have point systems of some sort, each working differently (Paladin, Druid, Monk, Cleric, Blood Mage, and others). Others have to hit certain sequences of attacks to cause certain effects (Disciple, Ranger)
- Using special attacks that crit often open special reaction chains.
- Managing to block or parry an attack may open special reaction chains.
- There are also stances, i.e. many classes can choose between different options to change their behavior. For example, the Blood Mage has an offensive stance (standard, which increases magic damage but nabs away their life) and a defensive stance (massive damage debuff, but increased defense and healing spells are more effective).
- Certain actions can cause certain weaknesses which can be exploited by other abilities - as hardly any class can exploit an ability it can cause by itself, this creates interclass dependencies.
- Almost everyone has special buffs, some of which can only be applied dynamically (such as with a finisher line after a crit, or with a special sequence of attacks for many Disciple buffs).
I only have one issue with it:
- The Bard is conceptionally wrong. A class that can buff all other people in group by 60% and more additional damage is just hopelessly unbalancing. The Bard needs to be changed to be balanced.
I also like the concept of buffs etc taking away mana/endurance/whatever as in Dragon Age, and the concepts of tanks in Warhammer Online.
None of the above
If I had to choose something on that list it would be Age of Conan, but there is significant room for improvement here.
I want to see more action oriented combat systems adapted into MMOs like FPSes (which Planetside did well), Action RPGs (heck, even Skyrim's combat system would be a breath of fresh air in a MMO environment), and Fighting Games (probably not quite there yet with current internet/network technology).
I like the trend we are seeing towards more skill based combat instead of the old auto-select, press 1,2,3. That's part of the reason I'm so excited for Planetside 2. The original game was a bit clunky for a shooter, but if they can make it run smooth with this new engine, then it could be a great MMO. Overall though, I like how the whole MMO market seems to be shifting away from basic auto-select combat.
I play MMORPGs. I do not play MMOFPS'.
Those that want MMOFPS' should be able to play MMOFPS'.
Those that want MMORPGs should be able to play MMORPGs.
As long as there is no lying by the marketing/PR departments, everybody can get what they want.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Just curious, which one of the letters in MMORPG is the one that determines what combat system the game is going to have?
As someone who's a little tired of 1, 2, 3 for abilities and that's it (WoW, RIFT, AION), AoC's combat system, was a lot of fun simply because of the extra step. While in reality, it probably isn't a far cry from the traditional hotkey combat, it just FEELS a lot more fun.
I hear its combat system was a lot better before they decided to dumb it down but I can't verify the truth of that claim.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
EVE Online.
Lock Target, position your ship at the optimal range and tranversal, keep that range, lock out there warp drive/slow them down/disrupt cap/targeting tracking, select the dmg type you think will work best then destroy them.
You have to push the best strategy of what you have equiped vs what you think they have trying to counter there strategy. The same ship can or may have to fight 10 different ways depending on who your fighting.
Even if you know the exact capabilities of your enemy there fit can throw you for a loop. A Hurricane class Battlecruiser, is it Armor fit with Tracking Disruptors to force down your range, or Shield Nano(Speed) fit with Tracking enhancers kiting your webifiers from 30km, or Artillery fit Sniping at you from 50km or Active Tanked repairing itsself with an Armor Repairer powered by Energy Vampires and Capboosters, how about duel plated with a massive buffer and duel stasis webifers holding you down and beating on you.
Those people who say they quit because it's lock target, orbit, warp scram and shoot...
Well I think I might have guessed why they quit, thanks for being a probable killmail on my board.
I agree with the philosophy on combat and all things marketed. Make trailers from ingame, we get to see real graphics, real combat situations etc.
To the OP I played LotRO and AoC, I didn't see any negligable difference. Chain combos was AoC but you could have chain combo classes in LotRO too I just found after you do it 50, 60, 200, 2000 times its all the same. One you didnt mention is EVE and it like them all have the up side and the down side but I was able to adapt to it like all the other systems. They all carry one theme. It puts content in two groups. Can do, can't do but I wouldn't ask a Dev to break out of that confine because I don't know if it can be done.
RPG letters.
From that list I'd say AoC. But I haven't played DCUO so I can't comment on that.
The game that is not on the list and got the best combat system imo is:
The Chronicles of Spellborn
The rotating bar with pre-selected skills is absolutely awesome.
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYpwBjvBA-o
Which RPG?
Skyrim?
Daggerfall?
Neverwinter Nights?
Baldurs Gate?
Final Fantasy I to XIV?
Dragon Age?
Mass Effect?
Got the point?
RPG. You're playing the role of a character and directing their actions. You're not taking the actions. How can you be taking the actions if you're playing the role of a character? They're aiming - not you. You're directing them to aim at something. Whether they hit or miss is dependent on their skill - not your skill. Your skill comes into play in how well you play the character.
If it's just a case of you doing everything...then it's just a case of you doing everything.
Hence, the separation of MMORPG...MMOFPS...MMOAG...etc, etc, etc, etc.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The point of any RPG game is role playing - story driven adventure of predetermine character. This fact is then reflected in combat system that is based on your character rather than your player skills.
It is your avatar that is supposed to miss or hit rather than your player skills.
While WoW and Champions Online are the only two games on your list that I've played (and the latter has a better combat system, by far), I'm pretty sure that if I had played them all, my answer still wouldn't be Rift or LotRO. No one has yet managed to offer a reason why combat in those games isn't completely awful. I'm less certain about the others, and while I'm skeptical that I'd like them as well as CO, they at least have a chance.
Champions Online. Out of that list, I didn't have a hard choice. It is the most fluid, responsive, and exciting.
I would also add Darkfall, the game may have some other issues, and the UI might make the combat system feel really bad when you start, but once you've macro'd it up to not be wonky, it is great.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
To me most games play the same tab traget skill 1,2,3,and so on. Games like DCUO and DDO had some fun combat systems that used the mouse for combat and the hot keys for spells and such. AoC combat is no different then normal mmos except you click the skill and have to copy what it says to do with keys 123qe and you can pull off the combo. It was fun for the first 45+ lvls then gets into the same old play style as WoW and all others. Even EQ1 has this same set up.
To me if a company wants to give us better combat give us a mix of DCUO combat and Skyrim combat system where you learn based on the weapon type what combos it can do and have skills/powers be hotkeys to your bar but only up to 6 max this way a player does not have 4 to 5 hot bars for skills and spells and what not because in some games you don't use them all. Take EQ2 I have 10 hot bars for all the skills and spells my character uses but I only use half for the powers I use all the time.
See gaming has gone from classic almost turn based into more action cause gamers have changed theres no real challange anymore once you leanr the skills you get in lvling that the games have become way to easy and boring and could be better with a more action based combat system to make players more active then oh I will go here click to auto attack and kill this weaker mob so I can get a drink. Unlike I better get out of here so I dont die and get a drink and come back cause I can auto kill things. Also with the classic style you could macro a key to do it all and you never needed to really do anything other then the one key seen this in almost every mmo I have played besides AoC and DCUO and DDO but sure people have done it there as well.
So in the end I want in my opinion a combat system more to that of a action combat system with less auto combat and hot bars.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
That is part of the reason Champions is so much more fun to me. 1. you can turn off tabbed targetting and play like FPS, 2. you aren't 1,2,3 all the time you are being careful at how long you hold down buttons, block, etc. 3. Foes move around a lot more.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Weapon types, combos, skills/powers, hotkeys? Huh? Did you ever played the game?
How about you quote the whole sentence?
I don't even need to see any list of games,i know what system "WAS" the best>>>>FFXI in a lanslide.No other game uses the same depth or formulas as FFXI,VERY few games incorporate grouping at all as FFXI was designed around grouping from the ground up,not just inside instances.ONLY game using a Renkai system based on Elements and team work with NO hand holding pictures to tell you what to do,you have to learn your class not button mash.
Everything has changed in FFXI now however,it is no longer great but actually rubbish now,just like most other combat systems i see that have almost no depth at all.No game has EVER included the magic burst effect FFXI had either.I see most games now narrowing combat down to 1-2 stats,they are just too lazy to dsign a good system. IN FFXI accy/STR/AGI/DEX/attk/weapon dmg/weapon skills/level/mobs stats ALL mattered in EVER fight.The elemental properties mattered and there was a bonus to xp if you ere able to chain kills together in a certain amount of time.
To sum it up,all these games are button mashers,Not since the early days of FFXI have i seen a game that delivers organized thinking combat w/o button mashing 1-2 sec timers.
I just played SWTOR and it had NO elemental properties,NO physical such as slashing/piercing,No combos,No player>player actions,no weapon skills,just the weapon dmg and one stat determined your dmg.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Responsiveness is way more important to me than any sort of "combat system". If the controls feel sluggish, like in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, then it's no fun. The reason WoW ranks high for me is simply because it feels very responsive; when I push a button, something happens right away.
Most other systems are all about the same though. Some have random quirks like no auto attack or a crap ton of abilities or whatever, but they all come down to moving your character around and activating some skills.
You make me like charity
We start to get the point that you dont get the point, yes.
I voted for Aoc but it need that too lots of improvement. Wow is the best typical auto-attack combat system,more fluid,good animations,its a combat system that is working.
Personally last years at least i belong to the category of players that favour an upcoming mmorpg that used an exact duplicate of the combat system that either Mount & blade warband and Skyrim has.