While I'm sure the automated functionality will be nice for the "file copy and paste challenged", its just another instance of gamers getting sold to an uneeded thrid party that wants to sell them unrelated shyte.
You know this is just optional and you can download the mods as you have till now? Yeah....
Uh yeah I DO totally understand its f**king optional. I also feel it is entirely UNNECESSARY and mainly benefits an UNEEDED third pary company that has NO connection to either Bethesda OR the modding community. And its also a continuation of sorts of Bethesda's deal to force people who bought a boxed retail copy of the game to still have to use a digital retail service whether they want to or not, which was NOT optional. So while currently the mod delivery service is optional, Steam already screwed one thing up for me, so here is the potential they could screw up another.
If you don't share the opinion that this is a potential danger for the modding community, I'm cool with that, to each their own. But please stop assuming I must be uninformed just because we don't share the same outlook.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I think steam will only be able to post a few select mods that are able to work together without breaking peoples games. I cant imagine them posting 100s or 1000s of mods that will be available for skyrim. The backlash of people who installed mods that are not compatable and "break" peoples games would not be worth it.
Not to mention the tons of " adult " only mods that probably wont fly on steam. Never understood those but to each their own.
This may even actually be a good thing for the Mod community. Let people get their feet wet with some easy mod installs and they may explore sites like Nexus to get mods that are unavailable on steam. Will just have to wait and see what steam has to offer. My experience with steam has been all positive, milage may vary tho.
I think Mod sites for these games will not see any less traffic and may see more. They have a dedicated base of fans in that community and steam wont change that. It will just open the doors to let more people actually try mods.
While I have no trouble installing, unistalling, changing files, ect. assuming just because one has a PC that knowing how to do this is mandatory is a stretch.
Steam is a commerical portal for game purchases. Sticking mods by fans of the game on there is bad on two counts.
1. This is pretty much one step away from chargeable DLC, Bioware have been doing this for a while with the Dragon Age franchise. The first Dragon Age came with a toolkit, the second didn't probably because EA realised how much they made from DLC purchases of the first game and wanted to control the whole pie. Now there's barely any mods for Dragon Age II. Bethasda have released expansion packs before but this looks like a back handed way to control access to content through a deal with Steam.
2. It'll probably destory community sites like Nexus and Fileplanet, who've not only been tremendously helpful to Bethasda in development but have contributed a hell of a lot of quality mods for FREE. In this day an age you never want to alienate a fanbase whose that dedicated and this will.
Oh and if you want conveniance go play on a console. Messing around with config files and settings is par of the course with mods and PC games..
There is a whole lot of 'ifs, probably, close to and almosts' in that post to label this a bad idea. There certainly isn't any facts other than wild speculations and fears. lets stick to what is... not what may or could be
1. Having deals on games pop up from a piece of software you launch your games on, isn't a bad idea. Gamers buy games, We like deals.. what's the problem?
2. The whole 'I need to be online with steam' has been debunked time and time again. If you don't have an internet connection to register your game. Move back to civilization. If you can't afford an internet connection.. how are you affording games? Being that strapped, you should probably prioritize elsewhere than a gaming hobby.
3. Plug and play isn't bad words. Having to bypass, modificate or otherwise spend time online researching to get something to work is archaic and quite frankly belong to the 80's namely the DOS era. the fact you like fiddling with those things doesn't make you special. Well maybe it does but not in the good sense. You certainly don't speak for the PC community.
It's actually rare I see people with legit concerns about steam. By legit concerns I mean
1. Not being able to trade your games you already own
2. Losing your account means losing all your games
3. Minimalists who only prefer to have the bare necessities of softwares running when playing games to achieve highest possible FPS with their systems.
Not
1. I don't have internet
2. I'm mobile a lot and my labtop isn't online during that time
3. Steam charges more than amazon.com
4. Steam is the reason we have DLC packs at day 1 at release
Steam is a commerical portal for game purchases. Sticking mods by fans of the game on there is bad on two counts.
1. This is pretty much one step away from chargeable DLC, Bioware have been doing this for a while with the Dragon Age franchise. The first Dragon Age came with a toolkit, the second didn't probably because EA realised how much they made from DLC purchases of the first game and wanted to control the whole pie. Now there's barely any mods for Dragon Age II. Bethasda have released expansion packs before but this looks like a back handed way to control access to content through a deal with Steam.
2. It'll probably destory community sites like Nexus and Fileplanet, who've not only been tremendously helpful to Bethasda in development but have contributed a hell of a lot of quality mods for FREE. In this day an age you never want to alienate a fanbase whose that dedicated and this will.
Oh and if you want conveniance go play on a console. Messing around with config files and settings is par of the course with mods and PC games..
There is a whole lot of 'ifs, probably, close to and almosts' in that post to label this a bad idea. There certainly isn't any facts other than wild speculations and fears. lets stick to what is... not what may or could be
Reasonable enough outlook, however if we wait until the what ifs become unpleasent fact, then we are already screwed.
1. Having deals on games pop up from a piece of software you launch your games on, isn't a bad idea. Gamers buy games, We like deals.. what's the problem?
I don't like being forced to watch advertisements. That is my choice and none of your business to decide whether I should take issue with them or not.
2. The whole 'I need to be online with steam' has been debunked time and time again. If you don't have an internet connection to register your game. Move back to civilization. If you can't afford an internet connection.. how are you affording games? Being that strapped, you should probably prioritize elsewhere than a gaming hobby.
I don't recall anyone here saying you had to be online with steam to play the game. That isn't their issue. The fact you have to register your information with a third party digital retailer, and install their otherwise completely uneeded software for a game bought at a retail store is a what is sticking in some peoples craws. As to the rest of yout arrogant little diatribe about internet connections, again none of your business to tell someone else how and where they should spend their money, and that statement just makes you look a bit of a dickhead.
3. Plug and play isn't bad words. Having to bypass, modificate or otherwise spend time online researching to get something to work is archaic and quite frankly belong to the 80's namely the DOS era. the fact you like fiddling with those things doesn't make you special. Well maybe it does but not in the good sense. You certainly don't speak for the PC community.
I agree, easier functionality isn't a dirty word. And on not speaking for the whole PC or gaming community, neither do you sir, yet you seem to have no issue trying to do so earlier in your own post.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yes player mods i serieus think this will hurt nexus for skyrim mods or fileplanet.
Maybe handy all in one place but i think its getting more controll of everything involved with the game.
Unless they specifically "shut down" Nexus or other sites after doing so, I don't think it's going to necessarily effect those sites that much.
There's a lot of people out there who already aren't happy with the idea of having to go through Steam to play in the first place. Being told "you have to get your mods through us as well" isn't going to do much better.
There's also a lot of people who prefer to be more "hands-on" with such things.
"Prefer to use existing modding sites? Not a problem. You’ll still be able to upload/share/access Skyrim mods on fan-created mod sites." - Bethesda Blog
Bethesda is only setting up the Steam Workshop as an option for people to get their mods. They have already stated that the Creation Kit while being tied directly to this service will still make and save mods the old way as well. This means that sites like TESNexus will not be shut out and people will still be able to upload their Mods there as well. They are NOT trying to limit people's access to MODs they are trying to expand it. All of this information is in the same blog the OP got his information from it's just if he told you the whole story it wouldn't have seemed so controversial now would it? lol
From reading the news story, I'd say this is going to be pretty awesome.
"The normal methods of acquiring and installing mods, via places like TES Nexus, will still work."
So you cvan use Steam Works to get your mods, or traditional methods, which is good. No one will be locked in to downloading mods from Steam if they don't want to.
I imagine Bethesda found that they sold A LOT of copies of Skyrim on Steam, and that's why they are doing this in the first place. Pretty much everyone on my friends list has Skyrim and has been playing nothing but Skyrim.
"The Creation Kit will be out in January, and will apparently be even more versatile than Oblivion’s tools, letting players mess with Radiant Story."
This looks awesome. I don't own Skyrim yet, but I can't wait to dig into it with all the patches stabilizing it and all the mods improving it. Skyrim is gonna offer me hundreds of hours of fun just like Oblivion did.
This is optional so nobody's forcing you to go to steam for your mods.
The best thing to come out of this is that our console brothers who play Skyrim will also be able to enjoy some of the mod awesomeness which comes with the TES series.
Am I the only one who really enjoys using steam? I buy every single game I can off steam because I love the idea of having a digital library which I can access from everywhere. I have lost more CDs/DVDs than I care to remember.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I find it funny they call installing mods in Bethesda games 'confusing' lol. Nothing simpler in the world. Drop into a folder and there you go. Even Sims 3 is in comparison a lot harder since you need to create new folders first. Myself I prefer to do everything manually, know exactly where each file goes and what to do to get rid of it to not leaev any traces that could cause later bugs. For example I tend to use special tools to decrypt Sims3Pack autopackages and install the mod files by hand. I avoid any automatic installers whenever possible, and that counts the Steam distribution system too, most likely. Not that I'm against it so long the old way still works as well.
With Nexus' new mod manager which makes it just as easy to find and install mods for all of beths games I don't see why this will hurt them. Modders are devoted to nexus and other community sites not steam.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think its ridiculous that you cant play a single player game on the PC, if you dont have an internet connection. I have a game called Alpha Protocal that constantly trys to verify a connection for security. To this day I have NEVER been able to play the game I payed for because I cant figure out how to get the dang thing to connect. Unbelievable.
Battlefield 3 requires Origin to work. When my Origin connection is down, your out of luck.
Now I play the heck out of Skyrim and have not had a problem with Steam. I downloaded a mod from a site, read the instructions a couple of times, and cant figure it out.
So Moral of the story. I would be happy if Steam handled the mods, because it would be easy to figure out how to apply them. But in general, I hate the idea of a required internet connection to play single player games.
This is Steam Works: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse So far, all the have is Team Fortress 2 mods on there. It doesn't show a game list at all, it doesn't advertise games to you, it seems to be there to give people access to mods for games.
I also don't see how Valve and Bethesda is SUPER DUPER EVIL for possibly, no, not really, trying to sell you games on Steam when you have to look at advertisments all the time when you browse and use third party modding sites. It's OK for the community to offer
C) From a reading of the Bethesda blog, it looks like they are implimenting this because of the convenience and ease-of-use factor: "The Creation Kit will bundle your mod and upload it to the Workshop, where everyone can browse, rate, and flag mods for download. You’ll be able to do this from any web device, including your smartphone. Like a live Netflix queue, when you fire up Skyrim, mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed. Everyone here is really excited about the opportunities and possibilities this opens up for our entire community."
D) I do not understand the negative and adversarial stance some people are taking. Reading this thread makes it look like Gabe Newell went and kicked some people's dogs, and then some people at Bethesda went and joined in just kicking those dogs over and over again. Then some guys from Bioware decided it looked like fun, so they bought new dogs for some people and started kicking them too, at which point Gabe and Bathesda also joined in kicking the new dogs.
No, Valve and Bethesda are not out to get you and sieze control over your computer and delete all your EA games and force you to install Steam on your brain then destroy the video game industry because they hate you and video games just that much.
E) Anyone who thinks it is FUN to struggle to install mods, download Wrye Bash, try to get the load order perfect, go in and tweak the code for mods that won't cooperate, have the game crash ten million times just so you can enjoy a cool mod is INSANE! I love Oblivion to death, I love having mods on Oblivion and having the game play in new and interesting ways, but, I loathe installing mods. Any way they can improve and streamline that experience is a huge plus in my book.
While I'm sure the automated functionality will be nice for the "file copy and paste challenged", its just another instance of gamers getting sold to an uneeded thrid party that wants to sell them unrelated shyte.
You know this is just optional and you can download the mods as you have till now? Yeah....
Uh yeah I DO totally understand its f**king optional. I also feel it is entirely UNNECESSARY and mainly benefits an UNEEDED third pary company that has NO connection to either Bethesda OR the modding community. And its also a continuation of sorts of Bethesda's deal to force people who bought a boxed retail copy of the game to still have to use a digital retail service whether they want to or not, which was NOT optional. So while currently the mod delivery service is optional, Steam already screwed one thing up for me, so here is the potential they could screw up another.
If you don't share the opinion that this is a potential danger for the modding community, I'm cool with that, to each their own. But please stop assuming I must be uninformed just because we don't share the same outlook.
It benefits steam and its users with the expense of noone. It merely makes it easier and faster for them to download mods, it will probably be the same as the HL mods. So from where I see it, it seems your angst over steam has taken over as this won't be bad for anyone at all.
to be honest I'm not really that concerned with this. I only used OBMM almost two years after it was released (I like to tweak my game on my own).
This will help other players from valve/steam community who are new to the TES series (and the importance of our mod community) to have a better experience with mods (in the simpler way they were used to--through steam).
On the other hand, I would just like to know: DOES THIS IMPLY THAT MODS CAN BE AVAILABLE TO SKYRIM'S CONSOLE COUNTERPARTS?
2. The whole 'I need to be online with steam' has been debunked time and time again. If you don't have an internet connection to register your game. Move back to civilization. If you can't afford an internet connection.. how are you affording games? Being that strapped, you should probably prioritize elsewhere than a gaming hobby.
I don't recall anyone here saying you had to be online with steam to play the game. That isn't their issue. The fact you have to register your information with a third party digital retailer, and install their otherwise completely uneeded software for a game bought at a retail store is a what is sticking in some peoples craws. As to the rest of yout arrogant little diatribe about internet connections, again none of your business to tell someone else how and where they should spend their money, and that statement just makes you look a bit of a dickhead.
These people should probably get with the times and realize that digital distribution for software and media is here to stay, and will probably outright kill the physical distribution of such things.
Do you know what the largest music seller in the world is? Apple's iTunes. When was the last time you saw someone go out and buy a CD or even listen to a CD for that matter?
Do you remember the last time anyone rented a video or DVD from a video rental store? In fact, nowadays with every cable company offering movies on demand and Netflix streaming video stores are certified dead. There used to be 15 or so video rental stores in my city. First the smaller guys died off, then they announced that both Blockbusters were closing down. Now there is one single video rental store, Rogers, for a city of 100K people. Even then Rogers seems more interested in selling cell phones and XBox games than renting anyone a DVD.
How come Battlefield 3 was one of the best selling games of all time despite needing Origin to run? Because when it comes rto video games, gamers just have to play and nothing else matters.
Further, who do we have to blame for DLC? The companies producing it or the people who shell out money for each and every DLC out there? Gamers are like crack addicts. Just say the initialism "DLC" while talking about their favourite game and they'll have their wallets out and credit cards in hand.
I'd say that any PC gamer who ISN'T on Steam probably doesn't like video games very much, or doesn't like their money very much. Steam is incredibly convenient and really cheap.
This is Steam Works: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse So far, all the have is Team Fortress 2 mods on there. It doesn't show a game list at all, it doesn't advertise games to you, it seems to be there to give people access to mods for games.
I also don't see how Valve and Bethesda is SUPER DUPER EVIL for possibly, no, not really, trying to sell you games on Steam when you have to look at advertisments all the time when you browse and use third party modding sites. It's OK for the community to offer
C) From a reading of the Bethesda blog, it looks like they are implimenting this because of the convenience and ease-of-use factor: "The Creation Kit will bundle your mod and upload it to the Workshop, where everyone can browse, rate, and flag mods for download. You’ll be able to do this from any web device, including your smartphone. Like a live Netflix queue, when you fire up Skyrim, mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed. Everyone here is really excited about the opportunities and possibilities this opens up for our entire community."
D) I do not understand the negative and adversarial stance some people are taking. Reading this thread makes it look like Gabe Newell went and kicked some people's dogs, and then some people at Bethesda went and joined in just kicking those dogs over and over again. Then some guys from Bioware decided it looked like fun, so they bought new dogs for some people and started kicking them too, at which point Gabe and Bathesda also joined in kicking the new dogs.
No, Valve and Bethesda are not out to get you and sieze control over your computer and delete all your EA games and force you to install Steam on your brain then destroy the video game industry because they hate you and video games just that much.
E) Anyone who thinks it is FUN to struggle to install mods, download Wrye Bash, try to get the load order perfect, go in and tweak the code for mods that won't cooperate, have the game crash ten million times just so you can enjoy a cool mod is INSANE! I love Oblivion to death, I love having mods on Oblivion and having the game play in new and interesting ways, but, I loathe installing mods. Any way they can improve and streamline that experience is a huge plus in my book.
We understand that valve or steam is not only doing this to control my PC(well not yet:P) and delete all my other games that are not avaible on steam and in the proces fried my brain plus destroying the game industry and hate me(this seems nothing to do with this discussion ah well looks sensetional so lets keep this sentence) its about overall change of everything concerning internet and how they slowly starting to controll and everything you do if its through gameportals smartphones ipads facebook or whatever more and more they connected more and more they follow you more and more it end up all one all knowing seeing easy going place and most dont even see this BIGBROTHER(Gabe maybe:P) only reason for this is your money.
Also the DUMBDOWN process that comes with this all concerns me:(
We did not ask for steam they force this upon us and then you prolly say don't buy game, wel maybe thats true but im following this series sinds '98 and its one of my favorite games, so you understand why i bought the game right?...and thought ok ill try steam for ones.
And for struggle of install mods and tweaking BELIEVE me many include me is reason why i play PC games i love that PC is not perfect and constantly upgrading tweaking Over clocking installing and all those things that make PC so great and most of all untill lately its declining im affraid these days the FREEDOM i have on my PC, not some totally controlled LIMITED enviroment called XBOXLIVE im disgust with.
I realy quit buying games if my freedom is slowly taking away bit by bit.
Normally buy 15-20games a year in past now i have bought 2 games this year The Witcher 2 and Skyrim thats the result of all this bloody DRM.
But now slowly im pulled into things i REAL DONT WANT do you fanbois of steam and big brother fanclub UNDERSTAND this upset?
Prolly not end of discussion hahaha.
Well to each his own if you like easy push one button and go be my guest
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
2. The whole 'I need to be online with steam' has been debunked time and time again. If you don't have an internet connection to register your game. Move back to civilization. If you can't afford an internet connection.. how are you affording games? Being that strapped, you should probably prioritize elsewhere than a gaming hobby.
I don't recall anyone here saying you had to be online with steam to play the game. That isn't their issue. The fact you have to register your information with a third party digital retailer, and install their otherwise completely uneeded software for a game bought at a retail store is a what is sticking in some peoples craws. As to the rest of yout arrogant little diatribe about internet connections, again none of your business to tell someone else how and where they should spend their money, and that statement just makes you look a bit of a dickhead.
These people should probably get with the times and realize that digital distribution for software and media is here to stay, and will probably outright kill the physical distribution of such things.
Do you know what the largest music seller in the world is? Apple's iTunes. When was the last time you saw someone go out and buy a CD or even listen to a CD for that matter?
Do you remember the last time anyone rented a video or DVD from a video rental store? In fact, nowadays with every cable company offering movies on demand and Netflix streaming video stores are certified dead. There used to be 15 or so video rental stores in my city. First the smaller guys died off, then they announced that both Blockbusters were closing down. Now there is one single video rental store, Rogers, for a city of 100K people. Even then Rogers seems more interested in selling cell phones and XBox games than renting anyone a DVD.
How come Battlefield 3 was one of the best selling games of all time despite needing Origin to run? Because when it comes rto video games, gamers just have to play and nothing else matters.
Further, who do we have to blame for DLC? The companies producing it or the people who shell out money for each and every DLC out there? Gamers are like crack addicts. Just say the initialism "DLC" while talking about their favourite game and they'll have their wallets out and credit cards in hand.
I'd say that any PC gamer who ISN'T on Steam probably doesn't like video games very much, or doesn't like their money very much. Steam is incredibly convenient and really cheap.
Digital distribution isn't the future, its already the present, we don't disagree on this point. But that argument is meaningless because a retail box game requiring a customer to then register with and download Steam to play it would be just like if a person did go out and physically purchase a CD and then found he had to register and download iTunes to play it.
My issue with this has nothing to do with how good (or bad) Steam is for consumers. It has nothing to do with the future of game distribution. It revolves entirely around the customer being forced to use a service they neither need or want , to play a game they already payed for, that in reality has no need for this third party service to be functional. And in the case of them using steam, and the TES as an option to distribute third party mods, I don't like THAT idea because it further cements Bethesda's and Steam's cooperation meaning I can look forward to seeing this annoying state of affairs with future games.
If you have no issue with this then great, more power to you, but step the f**k off my nuts and stop telling me how I should feel about it, how I should spend MY money, what is good or bad for ME, or how I feel about steam reflects my outlook on gaming in general.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Digital distribution isn't the future, its already the present, we don't disagree on this point. But that argument is meaningless because a retail box game requiring a customer to then register with and download Steam to play it would be just like if a person did go out and physically purchase a CD and then found he had to register and download iTunes to play it.
My issue with this has nothing to do with how good (or bad) Steam is for consumers. It has nothing to do with the future of game distribution. It revolves entirely around the customer being forced to use a service they neither need or want , to play a game they already payed for, that in reality has no need for this third party service to be functional. And in the case of them using steam, and the TES as an option to distribute third party mods, I don't like THAT idea because it further cements Bethesda's and Steam's cooperation meaning I can look forward to seeing this annoying state of affairs with future games.
If you have no issue with this then great, more power to you, but step the f**k off my nuts and stop telling me how I should feel about it, how I should spend MY money, what is good or bad for ME, or how I feel about steam reflects my outlook on gaming in general.
Um sorry, but all you are doing is railing against the latest in a long line of DRM. Your choice is still the same now as it has been for a long time. Either buy the game ..or not.
I for one like the fact that, as far as DRM goes, Steam seems to be the one i have the least issues with. I personaly like that a game i bought on steam will have mods to add to the game all in the same place. And i can be pretty sure that they will all work together seamlessly, Steam, the game, and mods.
DRM is here to stay, i am afraid. Might as well go with the best of a what can be some really screwy DRM schemes they come up with from my perspective.
Digital distribution isn't the future, its already the present, we don't disagree on this point. But that argument is meaningless because a retail box game requiring a customer to then register with and download Steam to play it would be just like if a person did go out and physically purchase a CD and then found he had to register and download iTunes to play it.
My issue with this has nothing to do with how good (or bad) Steam is for consumers. It has nothing to do with the future of game distribution. It revolves entirely around the customer being forced to use a service they neither need or want , to play a game they already payed for, that in reality has no need for this third party service to be functional. And in the case of them using steam, and the TES as an option to distribute third party mods, I don't like THAT idea because it further cements Bethesda's and Steam's cooperation meaning I can look forward to seeing this annoying state of affairs with future games.
If you have no issue with this then great, more power to you, but step the f**k off my nuts and stop telling me how I should feel about it, how I should spend MY money, what is good or bad for ME, or how I feel about steam reflects my outlook on gaming in general.
Um sorry, but all you are doing is railing against the latest in a long line of DRM. Your choice is still the same now as it has been for a long time. Either buy the game ..or not.
I for one like the fact that, as far as DRM goes, Steam seems to be the one i have the least issues with. I personaly like that a game i bought on steam will have mods to add to the game all in the same place. And i can be pretty sure that they will all work together seamlessly, Steam, the game, and mods.
DRM is here to stay, i am afraid. Might as well go with the best of a what can be some really screwy DRM schemes they come up with from my perspective.
Yeah I think that pretty much sums it up. Funnily enough though in this case my choice thus far has been NOT. I've played the game a few hours on my friends computer and feel it is brilliant. But the detractors of the game for me, the annoying consolesque UI and not having a choice about using steam have actually kept be from buying a game I otherwise feel is one of the best single player RPGS of the past decade.
And steam as a DRM measure is just as useless as every other one they've tried as the cracked version of the PC game was out same day as the games US release and I think the Xbox version was leaked almost a week in advance of the game release. So sadly even with steam as a requirement people determined to avoid paying for the game but playing it anyway are still doing so. Oddly enough though steam being a requirement DID stop at least one customer who would have happily otherwise bought a copy, from doing so. You have to admit that is a bit weird to say the least.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Digital distribution isn't the future, its already the present, we don't disagree on this point. But that argument is meaningless because a retail box game requiring a customer to then register with and download Steam to play it would be just like if a person did go out and physically purchase a CD and then found he had to register and download iTunes to play it.
My issue with this has nothing to do with how good (or bad) Steam is for consumers. It has nothing to do with the future of game distribution. It revolves entirely around the customer being forced to use a service they neither need or want , to play a game they already payed for, that in reality has no need for this third party service to be functional. And in the case of them using steam, and the TES as an option to distribute third party mods, I don't like THAT idea because it further cements Bethesda's and Steam's cooperation meaning I can look forward to seeing this annoying state of affairs with future games.
If you have no issue with this then great, more power to you, but step the f**k off my nuts and stop telling me how I should feel about it, how I should spend MY money, what is good or bad for ME, or how I feel about steam reflects my outlook on gaming in general.
Um sorry, but all you are doing is railing against the latest in a long line of DRM. Your choice is still the same now as it has been for a long time. Either buy the game ..or not.
I for one like the fact that, as far as DRM goes, Steam seems to be the one i have the least issues with. I personaly like that a game i bought on steam will have mods to add to the game all in the same place. And i can be pretty sure that they will all work together seamlessly, Steam, the game, and mods.
DRM is here to stay, i am afraid. Might as well go with the best of a what can be some really screwy DRM schemes they come up with from my perspective.
Yeah I think that pretty much sums it up. Funnily enough though in this case my choice thus far has been NOT. I've played the game a few hours on my friends computer and feel it is brilliant. But the detractors of the game for me, the annoying consolesque UI and not having a choice about using steam have actually kept be from buying a game I otherwise feel is one of the best single player RPGS of the past decade.
And steam as a DRM measure is just as useless as every other one they've tried as the cracked version of the PC game was out same day as the games US release and I think the Xbox version was leaked almost a week in advance of the game release. So sadly even with steam as a requirement people determined to avoid paying for the game but playing it anyway are still doing so. Oddly enough though steam being a requirement DID stop at least one customer who would have happily otherwise bought a copy, from doing so. You have to admit that is a bit weird to say the least.
Actualy, i totaly agree with you:P 99% of all DRM is a waste of time and costs more in bad feelings with honest customers than it will ever solve the actual problems.
While I'm sure the automated functionality will be nice for the "file copy and paste challenged", its just another instance of gamers getting sold to an uneeded thrid party that wants to sell them unrelated shyte.
You know this is just optional and you can download the mods as you have till now? Yeah....
That is irrelevant. Steam is going to take over and rule the interwebz.
Let me get this straight a true PC gamer don't want it easy they love messing around tweaking and fixing things sure sometimes it was a mess and you wanne pull out all your hair but thats also charme of this.
um
I'm a pc gamer, I had a computer built with great parts and in no way, shape or form do I want to tinker with things. ever.
I"m a pc gamer because i like the better look of the games, installing mods, the use of a mouse and keyboard as I hate those controllers.
I'm of the idea that I want my computer to be a powerful appliance. Nothing more.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Let me get this straight a true PC gamer don't want it easy they love messing around tweaking and fixing things sure sometimes it was a mess and you wanne pull out all your hair but thats also charme of this.
um
I'm a pc gamer, I had a computer built with great parts and in no way, shape or form do I want to tinker with things. ever.
I"m a pc gamer because i like the better look of the games, installing mods, the use of a mouse and keyboard as I hate those controllers.
I'm of the idea that I want my computer to be a powerful appliance. Nothing more.
Ok not all i have a few friends that are also PC gamers and we tweaking fixing Over Clocking building my own rig where always bussy with our rigs and in that process also try make it a powerfull good running PC.
I have a high end PC but i love working with software/hardware to improve or tweaking it. And games and programs who need to be installed with all kinds of programs i love it.
I run Skyrim on ultra so im also for good rig but for me a PC is alot more hehe
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Comments
Uh yeah I DO totally understand its f**king optional. I also feel it is entirely UNNECESSARY and mainly benefits an UNEEDED third pary company that has NO connection to either Bethesda OR the modding community. And its also a continuation of sorts of Bethesda's deal to force people who bought a boxed retail copy of the game to still have to use a digital retail service whether they want to or not, which was NOT optional. So while currently the mod delivery service is optional, Steam already screwed one thing up for me, so here is the potential they could screw up another.
If you don't share the opinion that this is a potential danger for the modding community, I'm cool with that, to each their own. But please stop assuming I must be uninformed just because we don't share the same outlook.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I think steam will only be able to post a few select mods that are able to work together without breaking peoples games. I cant imagine them posting 100s or 1000s of mods that will be available for skyrim. The backlash of people who installed mods that are not compatable and "break" peoples games would not be worth it.
Not to mention the tons of " adult " only mods that probably wont fly on steam. Never understood those but to each their own.
This may even actually be a good thing for the Mod community. Let people get their feet wet with some easy mod installs and they may explore sites like Nexus to get mods that are unavailable on steam. Will just have to wait and see what steam has to offer. My experience with steam has been all positive, milage may vary tho.
I think Mod sites for these games will not see any less traffic and may see more. They have a dedicated base of fans in that community and steam wont change that. It will just open the doors to let more people actually try mods.
While I have no trouble installing, unistalling, changing files, ect. assuming just because one has a PC that knowing how to do this is mandatory is a stretch.
just my 2cp
There is a whole lot of 'ifs, probably, close to and almosts' in that post to label this a bad idea. There certainly isn't any facts other than wild speculations and fears. lets stick to what is... not what may or could be
1. Having deals on games pop up from a piece of software you launch your games on, isn't a bad idea. Gamers buy games, We like deals.. what's the problem?
2. The whole 'I need to be online with steam' has been debunked time and time again. If you don't have an internet connection to register your game. Move back to civilization. If you can't afford an internet connection.. how are you affording games? Being that strapped, you should probably prioritize elsewhere than a gaming hobby.
3. Plug and play isn't bad words. Having to bypass, modificate or otherwise spend time online researching to get something to work is archaic and quite frankly belong to the 80's namely the DOS era. the fact you like fiddling with those things doesn't make you special. Well maybe it does but not in the good sense. You certainly don't speak for the PC community.
It's actually rare I see people with legit concerns about steam. By legit concerns I mean
1. Not being able to trade your games you already own
2. Losing your account means losing all your games
3. Minimalists who only prefer to have the bare necessities of softwares running when playing games to achieve highest possible FPS with their systems.
Not
1. I don't have internet
2. I'm mobile a lot and my labtop isn't online during that time
3. Steam charges more than amazon.com
4. Steam is the reason we have DLC packs at day 1 at release
5. Insert other rediculous reason here
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
"Prefer to use existing modding sites? Not a problem. You’ll still be able to upload/share/access Skyrim mods on fan-created mod sites." - Bethesda Blog
Bethesda is only setting up the Steam Workshop as an option for people to get their mods. They have already stated that the Creation Kit while being tied directly to this service will still make and save mods the old way as well. This means that sites like TESNexus will not be shut out and people will still be able to upload their Mods there as well. They are NOT trying to limit people's access to MODs they are trying to expand it. All of this information is in the same blog the OP got his information from it's just if he told you the whole story it wouldn't have seemed so controversial now would it? lol
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
From reading the news story, I'd say this is going to be pretty awesome.
"The normal methods of acquiring and installing mods, via places like TES Nexus, will still work."
So you cvan use Steam Works to get your mods, or traditional methods, which is good. No one will be locked in to downloading mods from Steam if they don't want to.
I imagine Bethesda found that they sold A LOT of copies of Skyrim on Steam, and that's why they are doing this in the first place. Pretty much everyone on my friends list has Skyrim and has been playing nothing but Skyrim.
"The Creation Kit will be out in January, and will apparently be even more versatile than Oblivion’s tools, letting players mess with Radiant Story."
This looks awesome. I don't own Skyrim yet, but I can't wait to dig into it with all the patches stabilizing it and all the mods improving it. Skyrim is gonna offer me hundreds of hours of fun just like Oblivion did.
This is good, PS3 fully supports Steamworks so it opens up the potential for them to let mods made by PC gamers appear in the PS3 version.
Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but technically its feasible.
This is optional so nobody's forcing you to go to steam for your mods.
The best thing to come out of this is that our console brothers who play Skyrim will also be able to enjoy some of the mod awesomeness which comes with the TES series.
Am I the only one who really enjoys using steam? I buy every single game I can off steam because I love the idea of having a digital library which I can access from everywhere. I have lost more CDs/DVDs than I care to remember.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I find it funny they call installing mods in Bethesda games 'confusing' lol. Nothing simpler in the world. Drop into a folder and there you go. Even Sims 3 is in comparison a lot harder since you need to create new folders first. Myself I prefer to do everything manually, know exactly where each file goes and what to do to get rid of it to not leaev any traces that could cause later bugs. For example I tend to use special tools to decrypt Sims3Pack autopackages and install the mod files by hand. I avoid any automatic installers whenever possible, and that counts the Steam distribution system too, most likely. Not that I'm against it so long the old way still works as well.
My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570
With Nexus' new mod manager which makes it just as easy to find and install mods for all of beths games I don't see why this will hurt them. Modders are devoted to nexus and other community sites not steam.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its a good thing to be honest, if they try to filter the mods it will suck some but we stil have access to the mods on the mod sites
I think its ridiculous that you cant play a single player game on the PC, if you dont have an internet connection. I have a game called Alpha Protocal that constantly trys to verify a connection for security. To this day I have NEVER been able to play the game I payed for because I cant figure out how to get the dang thing to connect. Unbelievable.
Battlefield 3 requires Origin to work. When my Origin connection is down, your out of luck.
Now I play the heck out of Skyrim and have not had a problem with Steam. I downloaded a mod from a site, read the instructions a couple of times, and cant figure it out.
So Moral of the story. I would be happy if Steam handled the mods, because it would be easy to figure out how to apply them. But in general, I hate the idea of a required internet connection to play single player games.
Wow, a lot of people seem to have no clue what this entails.
A) They said on the official Bethesda that you will still be able to use community modding sites: http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/12/01/skyrim-what-were-working-on/
I also don't see how Valve and Bethesda is SUPER DUPER EVIL for possibly, no, not really, trying to sell you games on Steam when you have to look at advertisments all the time when you browse and use third party modding sites. It's OK for the community to offer
C) From a reading of the Bethesda blog, it looks like they are implimenting this because of the convenience and ease-of-use factor: "The Creation Kit will bundle your mod and upload it to the Workshop, where everyone can browse, rate, and flag mods for download. You’ll be able to do this from any web device, including your smartphone. Like a live Netflix queue, when you fire up Skyrim, mods you flagged will be automatically downloaded and installed. Everyone here is really excited about the opportunities and possibilities this opens up for our entire community."
D) I do not understand the negative and adversarial stance some people are taking. Reading this thread makes it look like Gabe Newell went and kicked some people's dogs, and then some people at Bethesda went and joined in just kicking those dogs over and over again. Then some guys from Bioware decided it looked like fun, so they bought new dogs for some people and started kicking them too, at which point Gabe and Bathesda also joined in kicking the new dogs.
No, Valve and Bethesda are not out to get you and sieze control over your computer and delete all your EA games and force you to install Steam on your brain then destroy the video game industry because they hate you and video games just that much.
E) Anyone who thinks it is FUN to struggle to install mods, download Wrye Bash, try to get the load order perfect, go in and tweak the code for mods that won't cooperate, have the game crash ten million times just so you can enjoy a cool mod is INSANE! I love Oblivion to death, I love having mods on Oblivion and having the game play in new and interesting ways, but, I loathe installing mods. Any way they can improve and streamline that experience is a huge plus in my book.
It benefits steam and its users with the expense of noone. It merely makes it easier and faster for them to download mods, it will probably be the same as the HL mods. So from where I see it, it seems your angst over steam has taken over as this won't be bad for anyone at all.
to be honest I'm not really that concerned with this. I only used OBMM almost two years after it was released (I like to tweak my game on my own).
This will help other players from valve/steam community who are new to the TES series (and the importance of our mod community) to have a better experience with mods (in the simpler way they were used to--through steam).
On the other hand, I would just like to know: DOES THIS IMPLY THAT MODS CAN BE AVAILABLE TO SKYRIM'S CONSOLE COUNTERPARTS?
Sorry I'm not that too familiar with consoles.
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These people should probably get with the times and realize that digital distribution for software and media is here to stay, and will probably outright kill the physical distribution of such things.
Do you know what the largest music seller in the world is? Apple's iTunes. When was the last time you saw someone go out and buy a CD or even listen to a CD for that matter?
Do you remember the last time anyone rented a video or DVD from a video rental store? In fact, nowadays with every cable company offering movies on demand and Netflix streaming video stores are certified dead. There used to be 15 or so video rental stores in my city. First the smaller guys died off, then they announced that both Blockbusters were closing down. Now there is one single video rental store, Rogers, for a city of 100K people. Even then Rogers seems more interested in selling cell phones and XBox games than renting anyone a DVD.
How come Battlefield 3 was one of the best selling games of all time despite needing Origin to run? Because when it comes rto video games, gamers just have to play and nothing else matters.
Further, who do we have to blame for DLC? The companies producing it or the people who shell out money for each and every DLC out there? Gamers are like crack addicts. Just say the initialism "DLC" while talking about their favourite game and they'll have their wallets out and credit cards in hand.
I'd say that any PC gamer who ISN'T on Steam probably doesn't like video games very much, or doesn't like their money very much. Steam is incredibly convenient and really cheap.
We understand that valve or steam is not only doing this to control my PC(well not yet:P) and delete all my other games that are not avaible on steam and in the proces fried my brain plus destroying the game industry and hate me(this seems nothing to do with this discussion ah well looks sensetional so lets keep this sentence) its about overall change of everything concerning internet and how they slowly starting to controll and everything you do if its through gameportals smartphones ipads facebook or whatever more and more they connected more and more they follow you more and more it end up all one all knowing seeing easy going place and most dont even see this BIGBROTHER(Gabe maybe:P) only reason for this is your money.
Also the DUMBDOWN process that comes with this all concerns me:(
We did not ask for steam they force this upon us and then you prolly say don't buy game, wel maybe thats true but im following this series sinds '98 and its one of my favorite games, so you understand why i bought the game right?...and thought ok ill try steam for ones.
And for struggle of install mods and tweaking BELIEVE me many include me is reason why i play PC games i love that PC is not perfect and constantly upgrading tweaking Over clocking installing and all those things that make PC so great and most of all untill lately its declining im affraid these days the FREEDOM i have on my PC, not some totally controlled LIMITED enviroment called XBOXLIVE im disgust with.
I realy quit buying games if my freedom is slowly taking away bit by bit.
Normally buy 15-20games a year in past now i have bought 2 games this year The Witcher 2 and Skyrim thats the result of all this bloody DRM.
But now slowly im pulled into things i REAL DONT WANT do you fanbois of steam and big brother fanclub UNDERSTAND this upset?
Prolly not end of discussion hahaha.
Well to each his own if you like easy push one button and go be my guest
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Digital distribution isn't the future, its already the present, we don't disagree on this point. But that argument is meaningless because a retail box game requiring a customer to then register with and download Steam to play it would be just like if a person did go out and physically purchase a CD and then found he had to register and download iTunes to play it.
My issue with this has nothing to do with how good (or bad) Steam is for consumers. It has nothing to do with the future of game distribution. It revolves entirely around the customer being forced to use a service they neither need or want , to play a game they already payed for, that in reality has no need for this third party service to be functional. And in the case of them using steam, and the TES as an option to distribute third party mods, I don't like THAT idea because it further cements Bethesda's and Steam's cooperation meaning I can look forward to seeing this annoying state of affairs with future games.
If you have no issue with this then great, more power to you, but step the f**k off my nuts and stop telling me how I should feel about it, how I should spend MY money, what is good or bad for ME, or how I feel about steam reflects my outlook on gaming in general.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Um sorry, but all you are doing is railing against the latest in a long line of DRM. Your choice is still the same now as it has been for a long time. Either buy the game ..or not.
I for one like the fact that, as far as DRM goes, Steam seems to be the one i have the least issues with. I personaly like that a game i bought on steam will have mods to add to the game all in the same place. And i can be pretty sure that they will all work together seamlessly, Steam, the game, and mods.
DRM is here to stay, i am afraid. Might as well go with the best of a what can be some really screwy DRM schemes they come up with from my perspective.
Yeah I think that pretty much sums it up. Funnily enough though in this case my choice thus far has been NOT. I've played the game a few hours on my friends computer and feel it is brilliant. But the detractors of the game for me, the annoying consolesque UI and not having a choice about using steam have actually kept be from buying a game I otherwise feel is one of the best single player RPGS of the past decade.
And steam as a DRM measure is just as useless as every other one they've tried as the cracked version of the PC game was out same day as the games US release and I think the Xbox version was leaked almost a week in advance of the game release. So sadly even with steam as a requirement people determined to avoid paying for the game but playing it anyway are still doing so. Oddly enough though steam being a requirement DID stop at least one customer who would have happily otherwise bought a copy, from doing so. You have to admit that is a bit weird to say the least.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Actualy, i totaly agree with you:P 99% of all DRM is a waste of time and costs more in bad feelings with honest customers than it will ever solve the actual problems.
That is irrelevant. Steam is going to take over and rule the interwebz.
um
I'm a pc gamer, I had a computer built with great parts and in no way, shape or form do I want to tinker with things. ever.
I"m a pc gamer because i like the better look of the games, installing mods, the use of a mouse and keyboard as I hate those controllers.
I'm of the idea that I want my computer to be a powerful appliance. Nothing more.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ok not all i have a few friends that are also PC gamers and we tweaking fixing Over Clocking building my own rig where always bussy with our rigs and in that process also try make it a powerfull good running PC.
I have a high end PC but i love working with software/hardware to improve or tweaking it. And games and programs who need to be installed with all kinds of programs i love it.
I run Skyrim on ultra so im also for good rig but for me a PC is alot more hehe
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit