VO has a time and place. A main story line centered on the character yes, every single lil numbskull quest giver... no. I just feel that they wasted a lot of resources on the side quests VOs that would have been better elsewhere like in space combat or some new feature like a DE system which would have given the game an edge in competition but alas they didn't. Also, at least for my trooper, the quality of dialogue was pretty bad at times being either corney as hell or too typical which I think is a byproduct of having too much VO. I'm just not all that thrilled over the VOs in what I see as a watered down ME conversations. There is too much of a polar good vs evil in em and just not all that impressed with the dialogue options on my trooper.
How ANet handled their VO is spot on imo, but then these games are like apples and oranges.
Ahem, but in reference to the OP, I think VO should be included tin future MMOs but only when they look at what works and what doesn't work. i.e. not every quest needs it but certain important ones yes that have a lore or character development significance.
No, there are more important and actual tangible things that should be the focus in what is an already stale genre. Window dressing does not qualify. Only reason why BioWare was able to do it was because EA backed them up financially, which is to say that at least a good 90% of MMO developers/publishers simply can't do it from a financial POV.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
And that's where I hope it doesn't become a standard. Stories are nice n' all, but they should really stay in books and movies and the odd RPG. But overall, I'd really like games to become more open and involved, not a straight line story from A-Z.
I think mmo's will become more open and involved, but that is a different branch of mmo's. TOR is a themepark style mmo (and themepark style mmo's are really their own branch, and have their own merits), and so a more dedicated path of movie like content suits it well. Sandbox style games, which are not for everyone, are more likely to have that open ended gameplay you speak of.
You know how players skip reading quest text because it takes too long? Listening to a voiceover takes several times as long for exactly the same jabbering, unless you're a really slow reader.
I actually think most players skip the text based quests because the immersion is not there. It's just a bunch of text before you, which really doesn't sparkle up next to the pretty graphics and fun gameplay. I don't think it has anything to do with the time it takes, if that aspect of the game is fun, the players will enjoy it. I'm not saying TOR's vo's are fun or not, I'm just saying that any aspect of the game that isn't exciting is gonna get skimmed over. Also, the internet generation is very accustomed to skimming over text in general.
Its like the new 60 inch Flat screens TVs everyone has now. You could never now go back 10 years to your 30inch box tv; however, once you got used to the flat screen it real wasn't any "better" then your box was.
My point is technology only moves one way and so yes VO is here to stay!! Once you get used to it though "as most of us are" its nothing special anymore.
Originally posted by SethiusX Originally posted by Herodes 200 hours of unique gameplay would be better than voice-overs.
Since we cannot demand UNIQUE gameplay, uncommon gameplay for MMOs would be fine. Something like RealTime Strategy, RoundBased Strategy or even Shooter-like. To me Bioware was known for tactical group-combat. They threw away this opportunity. Cutscenes or multiple textbars is not gameplay.
I think it might be a bit difficult for them to translate their normal tactical group combat style to an mmo. I think really, it doesn't suit the genre well since instead of controlling the whole group like in Mass Effect of Dragon Age, you are now just one of the members of the group, and you play your part. Well, it is not easy. EVE is kinda RTS, Wizard 101 or Atlantica are RBS, Planetside and some more are Shooters. Now imagine Mass Effect, Dragon Age or Star Wars (sorry) as an MMO.
I think for themepark MMO's and definitly RPG's in genral it will be a must have with VO's. But the cutscenes are what sets SWTOR apart from many other games anyways.
Bit of both. Good audio is extremely important to having an immersive world. Voice acting is part of this. However, I also think the way TOR does it (with the cutscenes) is also a bit of a gimmick. Most modern MMOs already have voice acting in it (though usually not in the whole game), this trend has been taking off ever since EQ2. However, the cutscene system doesn't really add anything to the MMO aspect of the game, and in some ways hinders it. It's because of this, that I think if games do decide to adopt it, they will have to rethink the design.
I think voice overs are becoming more and more common, but I don't think it's because of swtor. In fact, I thought the swtor cutscenes were very gimicky with the whole "choice" thing. But voice overs are becoming more common because that's just what's expected from video games now a days.
Cut scenes get very freaking annoying after a while (imo), but I wouldn't be surprised if future games had all their npc's littered with longer and more complex, open world voice overs (opposed to having npc's all repeat the same 3 word phrases) or the short in-game cutaways (where you aren't in a cutscene or instance, but zoom into your dialogue or have a dialogue overlay, like skyrim). And that's already happening if you look at the upcoming games.
If i could choose anything, voice overs in future mmo's would work like skyrim. I think that game has a great balance of cutscenes, dialogue pace, and open world voice overs. It doesn't get tedius, but it's more than enough to feel like every npc is it's own person.
For the class quests full VO is great, but having to sit through voiced dialogue for side quests just drags things out and gets tedious. By the end of my second beta weekend I was asking for subtitles for all quests and the option to turn off VO for non-class quests. Imagine having to sit through the same VO for a side quest on an alt, or worse second alt.
Bit of both. Good audio is extremely important to having an immersive world. Voice acting is part of this. However, I also think the way TOR does it (with the cutscenes) is also a bit of a gimmick. Most modern MMOs already have voice acting in it (though usually not in the whole game), this trend has been taking off ever since EQ2. However, the cutscene system doesn't really add anything to the MMO aspect of the game, and in some ways hinders it. It's because of this, that I think if games do decide to adopt it, they will have to rethink the design.
I wonder if TOR uses cut scenes for their quest VO's because if they didn't, you would potentially have other players walking in front of your camera or in front of the npc's while talking. It might be a means to help the story immersion be more true to their vision in a game style that typically has a difficult time with getting players immersed in the story.
As much as I like the persistence of the online world, I'm not sure I would enjoy a game where an epic piece of the story is unfolding for me, and some player is dancing nude between me and the story. That would throw me out of the story more than anything.
Voice overs are great, not needed for every game but are a great thing to have if done well. If it's an Asian MMO then I'd probably prefer for them not to have any because they're always so badly translated and sound cheesy.
I don't think Cutscenes in an Online game are good though.
If you ask me, I'd say it is destine to be a requirement in every game in the near future. For one reason only, reading is too hard for the future gamers we have now. It takes too much effort to read and comprehend what the quest giver wants done. Voice Over makes it easy and fast, hence why it will be a requirement.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Personally, I don't think I can go back to the old ways. Im sure I'll play a game without it in the future, but you can be sure I won't be giving a crap about the lore or story at all. I've always hated the way quest text is presented and never have been one to read it.
Bioware answered my biggest problem with quest content in MMOs with this game. It really is a big deal to me.
Bit of both. Good audio is extremely important to having an immersive world. Voice acting is part of this. However, I also think the way TOR does it (with the cutscenes) is also a bit of a gimmick. Most modern MMOs already have voice acting in it (though usually not in the whole game), this trend has been taking off ever since EQ2. However, the cutscene system doesn't really add anything to the MMO aspect of the game, and in some ways hinders it. It's because of this, that I think if games do decide to adopt it, they will have to rethink the design.
Why does it need to add to the MMO aspect? It adds to the RPG aspect, which is far less developed in MMORPGs than the MMO aspect, and so more in need of having things add to it.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by bezado How can people forget EQ2 started the VO thing like 7 to 8 years ago.
EQ2 had like 15 classes and about 14 races. It wasn´t important. I didn´t like the loading screens though. To be honest, the todays fluid polish was missing, too.
The problem with having voice overs, then taking them away, or making a game that doesn't have them is alot like Age of Conan. I think almost everyone agrees that the isle of Tortage is one awesome place since the npcs all talk to you and such. Once you get off Tortage, the voice overs stop except on some questlines. It made the game feel half done (it was half done, but this made it worse).
I wouldn't go so far as to say it will be a requirement. There's still single player games that don't have voice overs, and they're pretty good. It's a nice feature more than a requirement. Much like having a steering wheel for GT5 or Forza. It's really nice to have, but you can still play with a controller (well I probably can't anymore since I've been using a wheel since the original GT lol).
1) For people like me who enjoy story and the immersion it brings, it is a no brainer. It will bring people who have those preferences into the fold. AoC's Tortage got huge, rave reviews, but it ultimately underscored how lifeless the rest of the world felt in comparison. While that is a loss for AoC, it was a win for VOs.
^^This.
Playing AOC sold me on full voiceovers. After leaving Tortage it seemed as if the world had gone silent - it was a really big, noticeable difference....I only played for another couple of weeks after that and left cos the world felt lifeless
I really do think that full VO will be the next must have thing. TSW is already planning on being fully voice acted and who knows after that?
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
I wonder if TOR uses cut scenes for their quest VO's because if they didn't, you would potentially have other players walking in front of your camera or in front of the npc's while talking. It might be a means to help the story immersion be more true to their vision in a game style that typically has a difficult time with getting players immersed in the story.
As much as I like the persistence of the online world, I'm not sure I would enjoy a game where an epic piece of the story is unfolding for me, and some player is dancing nude between me and the story. That would throw me out of the story more than anything.
They don't use cut scenes for quest VO's. I remember talking to an NPC about a quest and some player ran behind him, stopped for a second, then leapt off a wall in search of his next quest (I assume). It does have the potential to make for some very silly scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if some appeared on youtube not long after launch.
I wonder if TOR uses cut scenes for their quest VO's because if they didn't, you would potentially have other players walking in front of your camera or in front of the npc's while talking. It might be a means to help the story immersion be more true to their vision in a game style that typically has a difficult time with getting players immersed in the story.
As much as I like the persistence of the online world, I'm not sure I would enjoy a game where an epic piece of the story is unfolding for me, and some player is dancing nude between me and the story. That would throw me out of the story more than anything.
They don't use cut scenes for quest VO's. I remember talking to an NPC about a quest and some player ran behind him, stopped for a second, then leapt off a wall in search of his next quest (I assume). It does have the potential to make for some very silly scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if some appeared on youtube not long after launch.
Smaller quests go on without a cut scene, and important ones have you zone into a personal instance (not quite phasing). Then there's full blown cut scenes.
So yeah there's plenty of moments when you're interacting with certain NPCs and quest elements and there's people in your way, or everyone's waiting for an element to respawn, or per usual quest annoyances.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
They are only going to be a 'must have' feature if they have something of interest to say every time its used.
Using SWTOR as an example here, I really liked it when they were talking about my personal story line and such, but the other.. 70%(?) of the time it's just your basic kill X mobs, collect X things off the ground.
After a while, you start skipping these 70%(?) voice overs, and to me that seems like a waste and anything but a must have.
Comments
VO has a time and place. A main story line centered on the character yes, every single lil numbskull quest giver... no. I just feel that they wasted a lot of resources on the side quests VOs that would have been better elsewhere like in space combat or some new feature like a DE system which would have given the game an edge in competition but alas they didn't. Also, at least for my trooper, the quality of dialogue was pretty bad at times being either corney as hell or too typical which I think is a byproduct of having too much VO. I'm just not all that thrilled over the VOs in what I see as a watered down ME conversations. There is too much of a polar good vs evil in em and just not all that impressed with the dialogue options on my trooper.
How ANet handled their VO is spot on imo, but then these games are like apples and oranges.
Ahem, but in reference to the OP, I think VO should be included tin future MMOs but only when they look at what works and what doesn't work. i.e. not every quest needs it but certain important ones yes that have a lore or character development significance.
No, there are more important and actual tangible things that should be the focus in what is an already stale genre. Window dressing does not qualify. Only reason why BioWare was able to do it was because EA backed them up financially, which is to say that at least a good 90% of MMO developers/publishers simply can't do it from a financial POV.
I think mmo's will become more open and involved, but that is a different branch of mmo's. TOR is a themepark style mmo (and themepark style mmo's are really their own branch, and have their own merits), and so a more dedicated path of movie like content suits it well. Sandbox style games, which are not for everyone, are more likely to have that open ended gameplay you speak of.
I actually think most players skip the text based quests because the immersion is not there. It's just a bunch of text before you, which really doesn't sparkle up next to the pretty graphics and fun gameplay. I don't think it has anything to do with the time it takes, if that aspect of the game is fun, the players will enjoy it. I'm not saying TOR's vo's are fun or not, I'm just saying that any aspect of the game that isn't exciting is gonna get skimmed over. Also, the internet generation is very accustomed to skimming over text in general.
Its like the new 60 inch Flat screens TVs everyone has now. You could never now go back 10 years to your 30inch box tv; however, once you got used to the flat screen it real wasn't any "better" then your box was.
My point is technology only moves one way and so yes VO is here to stay!! Once you get used to it though "as most of us are" its nothing special anymore.
Well, it is not easy.
EVE is kinda RTS, Wizard 101 or Atlantica are RBS, Planetside and some more are Shooters.
Now imagine Mass Effect, Dragon Age or Star Wars (sorry) as an MMO.
I think for themepark MMO's and definitly RPG's in genral it will be a must have with VO's. But the cutscenes are what sets SWTOR apart from many other games anyways.
Bit of both. Good audio is extremely important to having an immersive world. Voice acting is part of this. However, I also think the way TOR does it (with the cutscenes) is also a bit of a gimmick. Most modern MMOs already have voice acting in it (though usually not in the whole game), this trend has been taking off ever since EQ2. However, the cutscene system doesn't really add anything to the MMO aspect of the game, and in some ways hinders it. It's because of this, that I think if games do decide to adopt it, they will have to rethink the design.
I think voice overs are becoming more and more common, but I don't think it's because of swtor. In fact, I thought the swtor cutscenes were very gimicky with the whole "choice" thing. But voice overs are becoming more common because that's just what's expected from video games now a days.
Cut scenes get very freaking annoying after a while (imo), but I wouldn't be surprised if future games had all their npc's littered with longer and more complex, open world voice overs (opposed to having npc's all repeat the same 3 word phrases) or the short in-game cutaways (where you aren't in a cutscene or instance, but zoom into your dialogue or have a dialogue overlay, like skyrim). And that's already happening if you look at the upcoming games.
If i could choose anything, voice overs in future mmo's would work like skyrim. I think that game has a great balance of cutscenes, dialogue pace, and open world voice overs. It doesn't get tedius, but it's more than enough to feel like every npc is it's own person.
For the class quests full VO is great, but having to sit through voiced dialogue for side quests just drags things out and gets tedious. By the end of my second beta weekend I was asking for subtitles for all quests and the option to turn off VO for non-class quests. Imagine having to sit through the same VO for a side quest on an alt, or worse second alt.
I wonder if TOR uses cut scenes for their quest VO's because if they didn't, you would potentially have other players walking in front of your camera or in front of the npc's while talking. It might be a means to help the story immersion be more true to their vision in a game style that typically has a difficult time with getting players immersed in the story.
As much as I like the persistence of the online world, I'm not sure I would enjoy a game where an epic piece of the story is unfolding for me, and some player is dancing nude between me and the story. That would throw me out of the story more than anything.
I thought the VOs would be a gimmick. I was wrong.
Voice overs are great, not needed for every game but are a great thing to have if done well. If it's an Asian MMO then I'd probably prefer for them not to have any because they're always so badly translated and sound cheesy.
I don't think Cutscenes in an Online game are good though.
It will depend on how successful it is with SWTOR.
I self identify as a monkey.
If you ask me, I'd say it is destine to be a requirement in every game in the near future. For one reason only, reading is too hard for the future gamers we have now. It takes too much effort to read and comprehend what the quest giver wants done. Voice Over makes it easy and fast, hence why it will be a requirement.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Voice overs will be a staple for all future games.
Cut scenes are a gimmick though.
Ultimately, us players are the ones who will determine whether they become a "must have" feature in future MMOs.
How can people forget EQ2 started the VO thing like 7 to 8 years ago.
Personally, I don't think I can go back to the old ways. Im sure I'll play a game without it in the future, but you can be sure I won't be giving a crap about the lore or story at all. I've always hated the way quest text is presented and never have been one to read it.
Bioware answered my biggest problem with quest content in MMOs with this game. It really is a big deal to me.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Why does it need to add to the MMO aspect? It adds to the RPG aspect, which is far less developed in MMORPGs than the MMO aspect, and so more in need of having things add to it.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
The problem with having voice overs, then taking them away, or making a game that doesn't have them is alot like Age of Conan. I think almost everyone agrees that the isle of Tortage is one awesome place since the npcs all talk to you and such. Once you get off Tortage, the voice overs stop except on some questlines. It made the game feel half done (it was half done, but this made it worse).
I wouldn't go so far as to say it will be a requirement. There's still single player games that don't have voice overs, and they're pretty good. It's a nice feature more than a requirement. Much like having a steering wheel for GT5 or Forza. It's really nice to have, but you can still play with a controller (well I probably can't anymore since I've been using a wheel since the original GT lol).
^^This.
Playing AOC sold me on full voiceovers. After leaving Tortage it seemed as if the world had gone silent - it was a really big, noticeable difference....I only played for another couple of weeks after that and left cos the world felt lifeless
I really do think that full VO will be the next must have thing. TSW is already planning on being fully voice acted and who knows after that?
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
They don't use cut scenes for quest VO's. I remember talking to an NPC about a quest and some player ran behind him, stopped for a second, then leapt off a wall in search of his next quest (I assume). It does have the potential to make for some very silly scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if some appeared on youtube not long after launch.
Smaller quests go on without a cut scene, and important ones have you zone into a personal instance (not quite phasing). Then there's full blown cut scenes.
So yeah there's plenty of moments when you're interacting with certain NPCs and quest elements and there's people in your way, or everyone's waiting for an element to respawn, or per usual quest annoyances.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
They are only going to be a 'must have' feature if they have something of interest to say every time its used.
Using SWTOR as an example here, I really liked it when they were talking about my personal story line and such, but the other.. 70%(?) of the time it's just your basic kill X mobs, collect X things off the ground.
After a while, you start skipping these 70%(?) voice overs, and to me that seems like a waste and anything but a must have.
Just my opinion.