Originally posted by Z3R01 Mmo gamers don't know what they want.
I know what I want. Or, more precisely, I know what I don't want. I don't want B-grade lore in a game that is advertised as an AAA title (and has $15/month sub fee). I don't want main boss to be some boring one-dimensional comic-book villain. I hate it when my UI is sloppy and unmoddable at the same time. I hate FoTM-style class balancing especially in PvP. I absolutely loathe grinding rep with over 9000 irrelevant factions. I cringe when I have to spam some LFG macro for hours just to get into a pug. I don't want to do kill-X-bring-Y quests anymore, I did more than my share of those in 2005. I don't want all playable races to have more or less the same look and feel.
I could go on like this forever. I could mention bleak uninspired zones, crappy dungeons, absurd itemization, unresponsive controls (well, not to the point of The Witcher 2, but still), nonexistent customer support and total inability to listen to the community feedback. And now when I have mentioned all these shortcomings I still could go on forever.
The amount of released content alone means nothing because quantity != quality. And re. polished release, sorry, but I'd rather play a buggy game with at least a semblance of balance.
Rift had potential, a lot of it actually. But that potential was wasted in so many ways I still facepalm every time I think of it.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Players want something new and fun, Rift was neither.
No they don't
Inovative games release all the time, i can rattle off four or five games off the top of my head that noone gave a chance even though for years they've been asking for the features that game offers.
You want innovation but when you get it you take a fine tooth comb looking for every flaw and blow it out of proportion.
He said new AND fun, not new OR fun.
Sure innovative games have been released and "tried" things but most of them (all to this point?) haven't been able to give innovative and fun in the same package. Everyone who played Rift's betas thought this game had broken through.
Rifts weren't really "new" (WAR's PQ) but they were new enough AND they were fun. The problem is Rift went away from... rifts.
The game as you said, has MORE dungeons in eight months than WoW had in THREE YEARS and that should tell you something when a game called "Rift" concentrates on raids/dungeons and ignores just about everything else (rifts, invasions, housing, PvP, middle content/side games like fishing, exploring, pets, etc).
You say people don't know what they want. It appears Trion doesn't know what people want.. they seem to think people just want to raid in dark dungeons and call it a day. People are tired of that one-trick pony chasing loot and reputation currency grinds. Trion didn't get the memo and made a Everquest/WoW dungeon game in 2011.
People do know what they want and Trion claimed they were giving it to them with "We aren't in Azeroth anymore" claims. They saw the rifts and believed them only to have Trion bait-and-switch the game after a couple of months. Rifts are an afterthought now and raiding is the mainstay so if people can get the same old, why not stay with WoW and wait for the Panda dungeons?
I had hope that Trion would turn this game around and transform it into a real mmorpg, but patch 1.6.1 with its instant adventure is the final nail in the coffin of that hope. Rift had potential but was severely lacking in depth as an mmorpg. The story element was there but done poorly. The polish had been done at the expense of depth and variety. So, I had hoped the developers would have noticed that themselves (well, many tried to point that out to them, so that might have helped) and try to repair that, but in fact they chose the opposite direction. Less story telling and more action without any meaning.
As an exploring, adventuring type of gamer the developers have finally convinced me that the world of Telara is not worth saving.
Sorry I figured that out way back in February when they insisted on forcing the "Raid or Die" mentality instead of creating a brand new form of endgame based on their dynamic content. That and their total lack of world size, lack of meaningful exploration, and their hand holding extreme for questing was enough tell-tell signs to get out while the getting out was good.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Rift was/is a great game. I player from release till July and had a lot of fun. Rift also had one of the best starts - good ping, no queues, only a few bugs. :>
I had hope that Trion would turn this game around and transform it into a real mmorpg, but patch 1.6.1 with its instant adventure is the final nail in the coffin of that hope. Rift had potential but was severely lacking in depth as an mmorpg. The story element was there but done poorly. The polish had been done at the expense of depth and variety. So, I had hoped the developers would have noticed that themselves (well, many tried to point that out to them, so that might have helped) and try to repair that, but in fact they chose the opposite direction. Less story telling and more action without any meaning.
As an exploring, adventuring type of gamer the developers have finally convinced me that the world of Telara is not worth saving.
Sorry I figured that out way back in February when they insisted on forcing the "Raid or Die" mentality instead of creating a brand new form of endgame based on their dynamic content. That and their total lack of world size, lack of meaningful exploration, and their hand holding extreme for questing was enough tell-tell signs to get out while the getting out was good.
It should have been, but I remained hopeful inspite of those signs for a long time.
Okay so we're all in agreement that Rift is or was DOA and should promptly be dropped into the Pit Of MMO Failures. That about sum this thread up?
Nothing is ever good enough. There are already threads about how SWTOR is a great and terrible failure. I would expect the same for GW2, TSW, Arche Age, Copernicus (God bless them if they can ever get it released.) The same threads were posted about many major MMOs in the past. EQ2 anyone? Did I miss any?
Rift is a beautiful game with its share of flaws. Some players actually like it. Others are disappointed, The Game Is Doomed naysayers and that's fine. I say tomato, you say tomahto. But drama threads about how we projected our hopes onto Rift and how it "failed" us are overblown hype pieces.
Guess what? MMOs are made by people, they are going to be flawed or sometimes, commercial failures (which Rift isn't) and they aren't ever going to be good enough or everyone's cup o' tea. Constructive criticism is one thing. "Our great Hope failed us" is another. Who knows, maybe someday some group of gamers out there will build their own MMO and Everyone Will Be Happy.
Is anything enough anymore for people to just have fun and enjoy it?
Is anything enough anymore for people to just have fun and enjoy it?
nope guess not..close to 5+ gigs worth of content since launch, but hey Rift sucks I guess. I think we are all supposed to go play TOR now...then quit TOR for GW2? Is that how it works?
Who is the shepard in charge of leading all the sheeple? If I met him I want to kick him in the nuts.
Okay so we're all in agreement that Rift is or was DOA and should promptly be dropped into the Pit Of MMO Failures. That about sum this thread up?
Nothing is ever good enough. There are already threads about how SWTOR is a great and terrible failure. I would expect the same for GW2, TSW, Arche Age, Copernicus (God bless them if they can ever get it released.) The same threads were posted about many major MMOs in the past. EQ2 anyone? Did I miss any?
Rift is a beautiful game with its share of flaws. Some players actually like it. Others are disappointed, The Game Is Doomed naysayers and that's fine. I say tomato, you say tomahto. But drama threads about how we projected our hopes onto Rift and how it "failed" us are overblown hype pieces.
Guess what? MMOs are made by people, they are going to be flawed or sometimes, commerical failures (which Rift isn't) and they aren't ever going to be good enough or everyone's cup o' tea. Constructive criticism is one thing. "Our great Hope failed us" is another. Who knows, maybe someday some group of gamers out there will build their own MMO and Everyone Will Be Happy.
Is anything enough anymore for people to just have fun and enjoy it?
Take Archage out of that list and your good.
Themepark games are dead yes, some might not know that yet but it's my guess themepark is all they know.
The ressurection of real mmorpg's is on the horizon so just hang in there and try to weather the storm.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Games are what you make them to be for example everyone says Perfect World International is a bad game but when it was released I actually played for 3 months and had lots of fun during that time. I agree the game is a vicious grinder but at the time I thought PWI was a hot game to play and felt hot. I'm actually playing Rift now and FFXIV and both are badmouthed in here a lot but I see through the faults that others find gamebreaking. I don't care at all what other think of the games I play as long as I get lost in the game and feels like I'm part of them I enjoy playing.
That is the problem with this generation of mmorpg gamers, they want everything quick and try to be the best "elite" by making a game feel like work. Games are ment to be fun not a chore so take your time and play not work.
Games are what you make them to be for example everyone says Perfect World International is a bad game but when it was released I actually played for 3 months and had lots of fun during that time. I agree the game is a vicious grinder but at the time I thought PWI was a hot game to play and felt hot. I'm actually playing Rift now and FFXIV and both are badmouthed in here a lot but I see through the faults that others find gamebreaking. I don't care at all what other think of the games I play as long as I get lost in the game and feels like I'm part of them I enjoy playing.
That is the problem with this generation of mmorpg gamers, they want everything quick and try to be the best "elite" by making a game feel like work. Games are ment to be fun not a chore so take your time and play not work.
Some of us actually want our games to, not be like work, but actually challenging and requiring you to use your brain. Current themepark games are shallow garbage with no lasting appeal and that is why people are moving from game to game.
The ressurection of real mmorpg's is on the horizon so just hang in there and try to weather the storm.
Assume this comment is about GW2...my faith in that game is tested because it has a dev who did not consider jumping to be a good thing to add into a game. Just saying you could jump in Super Mario Brothers.
The ressurection of real mmorpg's is on the horizon so just hang in there and try to weather the storm.
Assume this comment is about GW2...my faith in that game is tested because it has a dev who did not consider jumping to be a good thing to add into a game. Just saying you could jump in Super Mario Brothers.
GW2 is the mother of lets wait and see.
Jumping is in the game .-. Although having your faith tested in an entire game just because you can't jump is silly, as far as I know that was never an issue. They wanted Z axis from the getgo because of underwater.
As for Rift, I can't say I have a lot of pity for the people that tried to 'stick it out.' The developers have never once given any hint or shown any inclination towards originality, they were basing their success off of tried-and-true methods, so why players would turn around and whine because it's nothing new is, to be blunt, amusing. Why would you give someone your time and money when they are, evidently, the exact opposite of what you wanted in the first place? And worse yet, they never tried to hide it? It's not like Trion bait and switched you, you knew what you were walking into from the beginning.
What you have to understand is these mechanics are making it into the game because that's what the game was supposed to be about from the beginning. It's easy to get into, doesn't require a lot of effort, and extremely casual friendly. So, of course, it's only going to become ~more~ casual-friendly as time goes on. Look at WoW.
This is exactly why people need to pull their heads from their bum and think about where their money and time are going in the long run. Short of pulling another SWG, it's pretty obvious what most games will continue to be as time goes on. Let alone that, if you look at MMO trends, even hardcore games get increasingly casual-friendly as they age. Knowing that, if you can't see yourself playing that game for a long time to come, your time should be spent more productively elsewhere until the game you truly want to play arrives.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
fair chance he was referring to arche age as that really will be a proper mmo if they execute it just right, lets hope its good and it actually gets released over in the west.
The ressurection of real mmorpg's is on the horizon so just hang in there and try to weather the storm.
Assume this comment is about GW2...my faith in that game is tested because it has a dev who did not consider jumping to be a good thing to add into a game. Just saying you could jump in Super Mario Brothers.
GW2 is the mother of lets wait and see.
Archage not GW2.
I agree with you on the "mother of lets wait and see" on GW2. But Archage in just game design alone has a gem that the WoW generation of mmoer's have yet to experience, so i'm excited for them and excited for Archage.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Is anything enough anymore for people to just have fun and enjoy it?
nope guess not..close to 5+ gigs worth of content since launch, but hey Rift sucks I guess. I think we are all supposed to go play TOR now...then quit TOR for GW2? Is that how it works?
Who is the shepard in charge of leading all the sheeple? If I met him I want to kick him in the nuts.
{mod edit}
and just so were clear. i was a big supporter of Rift at the beginning. check out any early post from Apoc in the rift forums. yes i get into fights with some people but hey, dont we all. but for the most part ( out side of there crafting ) i supported them. but they listened to all the god damn consolers about " this is to hard" and "we cant get groups fast enough" everything else that makes these MMOs mindless pieces of crap.
Games are what you make them to be for example everyone says Perfect World International is a bad game but when it was released I actually played for 3 months and had lots of fun during that time. I agree the game is a vicious grinder but at the time I thought PWI was a hot game to play and felt hot. I'm actually playing Rift now and FFXIV and both are badmouthed in here a lot but I see through the faults that others find gamebreaking. I don't care at all what other think of the games I play as long as I get lost in the game and feels like I'm part of them I enjoy playing.
That is the problem with this generation of mmorpg gamers, they want everything quick and try to be the best "elite" by making a game feel like work. Games are ment to be fun not a chore so take your time and play not work.
Some of us actually want our games to, not be like work, but actually challenging and requiring you to use your brain. Current themepark games are shallow garbage with no lasting appeal and that is why people are moving from game to game.
They had content backed logged prior to launch and released that content in stages. Interesting strategy on their part but I think they should have launched with all that extra content at the get go, even if it meant pushing the launch date back a few months.
~Dynamic events (rifts) was a mess~
Exactly.
The game was made like.. someone's parents about to go on vacation imo.
Mom: "Okay Billy, your dad and I will be away to Cancun for the week. I pre-made all your meals and snacks in case you get hungry. Don't eat it all in one day because it's just enough for each day, ok? Love you, buh-bye!"
Billy opens the fridge; sees:
Monday: Turkey Pot Pie/ apple snacks
Tuesday: Turkey strips/ ice cream
Wednesday: Turkey sandwiches/ Ho-hos
Thursday: Turkey fajitas/ cake
Friday: Turkey salad/ pie
Saturday/Sunday: Fried/baked turkey/ applesauce
This game, although "good"... is just one big turkey with some snacks.
This. Best post in the whole thread. True, cut and dry, and straight to the point.
Its good for some, bad for others. I just returned and am having a blast again. Found a new active guild, leveling up a Cleric alt, and I do raid rifts, tier dungeons, 10 mans, world events, instant adventures, and questing in the new Ember Isle on my main. I have yet to get into PvP or 20 man raiding.
I can say that RIFT has enough content for both levelers (though the quests are way too stati imo) and endgamers to keep me entertained for a long time.
In a month SWTOR becomes what Rift is, GW2 becomes the "new" game changer that everyone had thought Rift and now SWTOR is. In a month or two after GW2 is out it becomes stale and whatever new themepark that follows the same path becomes the new game changer rinse repeate.
Themeparks are good for a month if youve played one before.
Its just funny to watch one game that was the "wow killer" and "industry changer" ect (Rift) become the stale boring game it always was, while a new "wow killer" and "industry changer" (SWTOR) has its short limelight before the next GW2 starts the cycle over again.
Only diffrence between SWTOR and RIft was its "twist" trading IP (SWTOR) for Rifts public events and soul system.
They all boil down the the same game and same player experience at its roots.
This only becomes a problem if your actually looking for something new in these games.
All the while sandboxes yearn for new players, and games that actually offer diffrent mechanics (remember The Chronicals of Spellborn??) die off from lack of intrest.
So keep hopping from themepark to themeparks then cluelessly wonder why they keep making the same game over and over...its because you guys keep paying them to do so.
Theres nothing wrong with these types of games, only issue i see is how people assume its going to be diffrent this time. Think theres an einstine quote on the definition of insanity, expecting the newest AAA themepark to be diffrent when every single one released is the same at heart... fits the definition. All these people here complaining about every new themepark are nuts to have expected something diffrent.
Comments
When you can't bring yourself to log in, you know it's time to quit. Rift just doesn't have the funfactor for me.
WOW,eq2,Vanguard,WAR,LOTRO,AOC,Rift Aion, SWTOR, TERA.
Currently playing GW2.
I know what I want. Or, more precisely, I know what I don't want. I don't want B-grade lore in a game that is advertised as an AAA title (and has $15/month sub fee). I don't want main boss to be some boring one-dimensional comic-book villain. I hate it when my UI is sloppy and unmoddable at the same time. I hate FoTM-style class balancing especially in PvP. I absolutely loathe grinding rep with over 9000 irrelevant factions. I cringe when I have to spam some LFG macro for hours just to get into a pug. I don't want to do kill-X-bring-Y quests anymore, I did more than my share of those in 2005. I don't want all playable races to have more or less the same look and feel.
I could go on like this forever. I could mention bleak uninspired zones, crappy dungeons, absurd itemization, unresponsive controls (well, not to the point of The Witcher 2, but still), nonexistent customer support and total inability to listen to the community feedback. And now when I have mentioned all these shortcomings I still could go on forever.
The amount of released content alone means nothing because quantity != quality. And re. polished release, sorry, but I'd rather play a buggy game with at least a semblance of balance.
Rift had potential, a lot of it actually. But that potential was wasted in so many ways I still facepalm every time I think of it.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Couldn't be more true
Sorry I figured that out way back in February when they insisted on forcing the "Raid or Die" mentality instead of creating a brand new form of endgame based on their dynamic content. That and their total lack of world size, lack of meaningful exploration, and their hand holding extreme for questing was enough tell-tell signs to get out while the getting out was good.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Rift was/is a great game. I player from release till July and had a lot of fun. Rift also had one of the best starts - good ping, no queues, only a few bugs. :>
It should have been, but I remained hopeful inspite of those signs for a long time.
It takes one to know one.
Okay so we're all in agreement that Rift is or was DOA and should promptly be dropped into the Pit Of MMO Failures. That about sum this thread up?
Nothing is ever good enough. There are already threads about how SWTOR is a great and terrible failure. I would expect the same for GW2, TSW, Arche Age, Copernicus (God bless them if they can ever get it released.) The same threads were posted about many major MMOs in the past. EQ2 anyone? Did I miss any?
Rift is a beautiful game with its share of flaws. Some players actually like it. Others are disappointed, The Game Is Doomed naysayers and that's fine. I say tomato, you say tomahto. But drama threads about how we projected our hopes onto Rift and how it "failed" us are overblown hype pieces.
Guess what? MMOs are made by people, they are going to be flawed or sometimes, commercial failures (which Rift isn't) and they aren't ever going to be good enough or everyone's cup o' tea. Constructive criticism is one thing. "Our great Hope failed us" is another. Who knows, maybe someday some group of gamers out there will build their own MMO and Everyone Will Be Happy.
Is anything enough anymore for people to just have fun and enjoy it?
nope guess not..close to 5+ gigs worth of content since launch, but hey Rift sucks I guess. I think we are all supposed to go play TOR now...then quit TOR for GW2? Is that how it works?
Who is the shepard in charge of leading all the sheeple? If I met him I want to kick him in the nuts.
Take Archage out of that list and your good.
Themepark games are dead yes, some might not know that yet but it's my guess themepark is all they know.
The ressurection of real mmorpg's is on the horizon so just hang in there and try to weather the storm.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Games are what you make them to be for example everyone says Perfect World International is a bad game but when it was released I actually played for 3 months and had lots of fun during that time. I agree the game is a vicious grinder but at the time I thought PWI was a hot game to play and felt hot. I'm actually playing Rift now and FFXIV and both are badmouthed in here a lot but I see through the faults that others find gamebreaking. I don't care at all what other think of the games I play as long as I get lost in the game and feels like I'm part of them I enjoy playing.
That is the problem with this generation of mmorpg gamers, they want everything quick and try to be the best "elite" by making a game feel like work. Games are ment to be fun not a chore so take your time and play not work.
Some of us actually want our games to, not be like work, but actually challenging and requiring you to use your brain. Current themepark games are shallow garbage with no lasting appeal and that is why people are moving from game to game.
My gaming blog
Assume this comment is about GW2...my faith in that game is tested because it has a dev who did not consider jumping to be a good thing to add into a game. Just saying you could jump in Super Mario Brothers.
GW2 is the mother of lets wait and see.
Jumping is in the game .-. Although having your faith tested in an entire game just because you can't jump is silly, as far as I know that was never an issue. They wanted Z axis from the getgo because of underwater.
As for Rift, I can't say I have a lot of pity for the people that tried to 'stick it out.' The developers have never once given any hint or shown any inclination towards originality, they were basing their success off of tried-and-true methods, so why players would turn around and whine because it's nothing new is, to be blunt, amusing. Why would you give someone your time and money when they are, evidently, the exact opposite of what you wanted in the first place? And worse yet, they never tried to hide it? It's not like Trion bait and switched you, you knew what you were walking into from the beginning.
What you have to understand is these mechanics are making it into the game because that's what the game was supposed to be about from the beginning. It's easy to get into, doesn't require a lot of effort, and extremely casual friendly. So, of course, it's only going to become ~more~ casual-friendly as time goes on. Look at WoW.
This is exactly why people need to pull their heads from their bum and think about where their money and time are going in the long run. Short of pulling another SWG, it's pretty obvious what most games will continue to be as time goes on. Let alone that, if you look at MMO trends, even hardcore games get increasingly casual-friendly as they age. Knowing that, if you can't see yourself playing that game for a long time to come, your time should be spent more productively elsewhere until the game you truly want to play arrives.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
fair chance he was referring to arche age as that really will be a proper mmo if they execute it just right, lets hope its good and it actually gets released over in the west.
Clicky for Rift trial
Archage not GW2.
I agree with you on the "mother of lets wait and see" on GW2. But Archage in just game design alone has a gem that the WoW generation of mmoer's have yet to experience, so i'm excited for them and excited for Archage.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
{mod edit}
and just so were clear. i was a big supporter of Rift at the beginning. check out any early post from Apoc in the rift forums. yes i get into fights with some people but hey, dont we all. but for the most part ( out side of there crafting ) i supported them. but they listened to all the god damn consolers about " this is to hard" and "we cant get groups fast enough" everything else that makes these MMOs mindless pieces of crap.
this all day long.
This. Best post in the whole thread. True, cut and dry, and straight to the point.
Its good for some, bad for others. I just returned and am having a blast again. Found a new active guild, leveling up a Cleric alt, and I do raid rifts, tier dungeons, 10 mans, world events, instant adventures, and questing in the new Ember Isle on my main. I have yet to get into PvP or 20 man raiding.
I can say that RIFT has enough content for both levelers (though the quests are way too stati imo) and endgamers to keep me entertained for a long time.
In a month SWTOR becomes what Rift is, GW2 becomes the "new" game changer that everyone had thought Rift and now SWTOR is. In a month or two after GW2 is out it becomes stale and whatever new themepark that follows the same path becomes the new game changer rinse repeate.
Themeparks are good for a month if youve played one before.
Its just funny to watch one game that was the "wow killer" and "industry changer" ect (Rift) become the stale boring game it always was, while a new "wow killer" and "industry changer" (SWTOR) has its short limelight before the next GW2 starts the cycle over again.
Only diffrence between SWTOR and RIft was its "twist" trading IP (SWTOR) for Rifts public events and soul system.
They all boil down the the same game and same player experience at its roots.
This only becomes a problem if your actually looking for something new in these games.
All the while sandboxes yearn for new players, and games that actually offer diffrent mechanics (remember The Chronicals of Spellborn??) die off from lack of intrest.
So keep hopping from themepark to themeparks then cluelessly wonder why they keep making the same game over and over...its because you guys keep paying them to do so.
Theres nothing wrong with these types of games, only issue i see is how people assume its going to be diffrent this time. Think theres an einstine quote on the definition of insanity, expecting the newest AAA themepark to be diffrent when every single one released is the same at heart... fits the definition. All these people here complaining about every new themepark are nuts to have expected something diffrent.