ok so ive been reading through this and trying to understand something.
how do you know when your cooldowns are up?
you have to watch your bars anyway. so why does the indicator need to be any different than what is there?
Because some people are spoiled with UIs, that basically are playing the game for you. Watching an usual UI bar seems to be to much of a task for them. An UI needs to be scale and moveable plus minimalistic but thats about it, no need for easymode stuff.
I find it humerous that MMO users have had it beat into them that a poor UI scheme w/ poor visual indicators is an acceptable state of being. Much in the same way they've submitted to the idea that terrible AI is also an acceptable state.
How would you feel about an FPS game that didn't have a target reticle or a bullet count indicator? How about a RTS game w/out any indication of resource stockpiles? I mean, you don't really -need- those things right? Damn spoiled gamers, thinking the game should be about actual gameplay mechanics and not UI elements..
Well how ever small point you have, your examples are inherently flawed. This isn't something that requires an extra window to be opened in game to monitor how much ammo you have, or something that completely throws off your targeting. It's a button not lighting up all x-mas'y so you can see it when it lights up.
Seriously?
I have another issue, I want realizism in this game, so much that I want a toilet in my spaceship. I'm gonna crusade about that, and I want it to light up so everyone around can see it when it's been used recenlty!
Petition: Glowy Spaceship Toilet!
This is seriously how silly you sound Draemos.
Personally I don't care if they make it light up or not, I'll play the game and have fun doing it without it. Sorry that it ruined your life or the enjoyment that it may have brought to those around you that you feel the need to beat into submission.
Commence your backhanded reply now, it's expected=)
I find it humerous that MMO users have had it beat into them that a poor UI scheme w/ poor visual indicators is an acceptable state of being. Much in the same way they've submitted to the idea that terrible AI is also an acceptable state.
How would you feel about an FPS game that didn't have a target reticle or a bullet count indicator? How about a RTS game w/out any indication of resource stockpiles? I mean, you don't really -need- those things right? Damn spoiled gamers, thinking the game should be about actual gameplay mechanics and not UI elements..
Please stop comparing an MMOG with FPS, RTS games MMOGs are different beast. Anyway:
People have been playing this games for years now and there is only 1 in words ONE game in which the UI is playing the game for you (Rift heading the same way fast). Please tell me whats the big deal with managing your cool downs?
If you arrange your UI the right way, there shouldn't especially in a time with Razer Nagas, logitech G - keyboards and whatnot. Aion did have the popups for chainskills and not for cooldowns, thats something I'm ok with.Please keep in mind that one easymode feature will only lead to crying for more (heavily macroing, dual specc, flying mounts and what not).
So would you please tell me whats so difficult about managing abilities with cooldowns like 3,5,10 and maybe 30 minutes?! I just don't see it its part of learning the game and as someone mentioned if people can't play without that sort of thing they might as well stick to the game, in which the UI is p laying the game for you.
Never said anything about cooldowns. I usually put my cooldowns on their own bar so I can easily monitor them. Procs are a different beast.
Never said anything about cooldowns. I usually put my cooldowns on their own bar so I can easily monitor them. Procs are a different beast.
They really aren't you can put them into a different hotbar too, problem solved.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
If you arrange your UI the right way, there shouldn't especially in a time with Razer Nagas, logitech G - keyboards and whatnot. Aion did have the popups for chainskills and not for cooldowns, thats something I'm ok with.Please keep in mind that one easymode feature will only lead to crying for more (heavily macroing, dual specc, flying mounts and what not).
honestly if I could at launch arrange my action bars where i want them I probably wouldn't of even brought up the OP at all.. the fact that you can't makes it stand out a lot more, to me at least than it should
ok so ive been reading through this and trying to understand something.
how do you know when your cooldowns are up?
you have to watch your bars anyway. so why does the indicator need to be any different than what is there?
Because some people are spoiled with UIs, that basically are playing the game for you. Watching an usual UI bar seems to be to much of a task for them. An UI needs to be scale and moveable plus minimalistic but thats about it, no need for easymode stuff.
I find it humerous that MMO users have had it beat into them that a poor UI scheme w/ poor visual indicators is an acceptable state of being. Much in the same way they've submitted to the idea that terrible AI is also an acceptable state.
How would you feel about an FPS game that didn't have a target reticle or a bullet count indicator? How about a RTS game w/out any indication of resource stockpiles? I mean, you don't really -need- those things right? Damn spoiled gamers, thinking the game should be about actual gameplay mechanics and not UI elements..
Well how ever small point you have, your examples are inherently flawed. This isn't something that requires an extra window to be opened in game to monitor how much ammo you have, or something that completely throws off your targeting. It's a button not lighting up all x-mas'y so you can see it when it lights up.
Open up an extra window? You should count the damn bullets as they come out the gun. You are paying attention right, you do know how many bullets are in a clip? or are you just being lazy?
Throws off your targeting? The center of the screen is where your bullets aim towards, why the hell do you need a reticle? Oh, your just being lazy.
What? That killstream pops up and says you have 10 kills and your ready to fly off in a chopper? Why didn't you count your damn kills yourself you lazy ass gamer!
If you arrange your UI the right way, there shouldn't especially in a time with Razer Nagas, logitech G - keyboards and whatnot. Aion did have the popups for chainskills and not for cooldowns, thats something I'm ok with.Please keep in mind that one easymode feature will only lead to crying for more (heavily macroing, dual specc, flying mounts and what not).
honestly if I could at launch arrange my action bars where i want them I probably wouldn't of even brought up the OP at all.. the fact that you can't makes it stand out a lot more, to me at least than it should
Thats why I wrote a good UI has to be:
1. minimalistic
2. moveable
3. scaleable
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
ok so ive been reading through this and trying to understand something.
how do you know when your cooldowns are up?
you have to watch your bars anyway. so why does the indicator need to be any different than what is there?
Because some people are spoiled with UIs, that basically are playing the game for you. Watching an usual UI bar seems to be to much of a task for them. An UI needs to be scale and moveable plus minimalistic but thats about it, no need for easymode stuff.
I find it humerous that MMO users have had it beat into them that a poor UI scheme w/ poor visual indicators is an acceptable state of being. Much in the same way they've submitted to the idea that terrible AI is also an acceptable state.
How would you feel about an FPS game that didn't have a target reticle or a bullet count indicator? How about a RTS game w/out any indication of resource stockpiles? I mean, you don't really -need- those things right? Damn spoiled gamers, thinking the game should be about actual gameplay mechanics and not UI elements..
Well how ever small point you have, your examples are inherently flawed. This isn't something that requires an extra window to be opened in game to monitor how much ammo you have, or something that completely throws off your targeting. It's a button not lighting up all x-mas'y so you can see it when it lights up.
Open up an extra window? You should count the damn bullets as they come out the gun. You are paying attention right, you do know how many bullets are in a clip? or are you just being lazy?
Throws off your targeting? The center of the screen is where your bullets aim towards, why the hell do you need a reticle? Oh, your just being lazy.
What? That killstream pops up and says you have 10 kills and your ready to fly off in a chopper? Why didn't you count your damn kills yourself you lazy ass gamer!
Wow! Just wow.
Have a nice day seething in your rage over nothing. I'll be busy laughing at you.
Open up an extra window? You should count the damn bullets as they come out the gun. You are paying attention right, you do know how many bullets are in a clip? or are you just being lazy?
Throws off your targeting? The center of the screen is where your bullets aim towards, why the hell do you need a reticle? Oh, your just being lazy.
What? That killstream pops up and says you have 10 kills and your ready to fly off in a chopper? Why didn't you count your damn kills yourself you lazy ass gamer!
Wow! Just wow.
Have a nice day seething in your rage over nothing. I'll be busy laughing at you.
Thanks for the comic relief, I needed that.
I agree it's pretty comical when you start taking away UI elements from other games as a justification of increased difficulty.
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
I know they got a lot of feedback through beta about this and why those 3 simple things are not in launch of such a big AAA MMO title really boggles my mind
I find it humerous that MMO users have had it beat into them that a poor UI scheme w/ poor visual indicators is an acceptable state of being. Much in the same way they've submitted to the idea that terrible AI is also an acceptable state.
How would you feel about an FPS game that didn't have a target reticle or a bullet count indicator? How about a RTS game w/out any indication of resource stockpiles? I mean, you don't really -need- those things right? Damn spoiled gamers, thinking the game should be about actual gameplay mechanics and not UI elements..
Please stop comparing an MMOG with FPS, RTS games MMOGs are different beast. Anyway:
People have been playing this games for years now and there is only 1 in words ONE game in which the UI is playing the game for you (Rift heading the same way fast). Please tell me whats the big deal with managing your cool downs?
If you arrange your UI the right way, there shouldn't especially in a time with Razer Nagas, logitech G - keyboards and whatnot. Aion did have the popups for chainskills and not for cooldowns, thats something I'm ok with.Please keep in mind that one easymode feature will only lead to crying for more (heavily macroing, dual specc, flying mounts and what not).
So would you please tell me whats so difficult about managing abilities with cooldowns like 3,5,10 and maybe 30 minutes?! I just don't see it its part of learning the game and as someone mentioned if people can't play without that sort of thing they might as well stick to the game, in which the UI is p laying the game for you.
Never said anything about cooldowns. I usually put my cooldowns on their own bar so I can easily monitor them. Procs are a different beast.
I don't get why they are so different as to require a different mechanic for one than the other. Why have an indicator for procs and not cooldowns? Why do you have no problem monitoring cooldowns but you do procs? I don't really get this line of reasoning.
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
I know they got a lot of feedback through beta about this and why those 3 simple things are not in launch of such a big AAA MMO title really boggles my mind
This I can agree with. At the very least, and I mean very least, I ought to be able to move things around and make them bigger/smaller (I'm looking at you chatbox, oh how you mock me in your steadfast refusal to do what I want).
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
I know they got a lot of feedback through beta about this and why those 3 simple things are not in launch of such a big AAA MMO title really boggles my mind
Well KOTOR had awefull UI too, too bad they couldn't copy NWN 2's UI it is pretty decent, rift has a nice UI too.
UI customization is the only thing ill miss from WoW(not the stupid addons like DBM others which are just plain stupid).
BW should allow you to customize the UI with a simple XML/Any other type of format, just some template file that will enable you to declare position, and scale of the UI elements and the transperancy of textures. I've prefer having 0 textures in my UI's and have simple transperant frames. also on-hover mechanics for showing/hiding UI elements could be very nice too.
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
I know they got a lot of feedback through beta about this and why those 3 simple things are not in launch of such a big AAA MMO title really boggles my mind
Well KOTOR had awefull UI too, too bad they couldn't copy NWN 2's UI it is pretty decent, rift has a nice UI too.
UI customization is the only thing ill miss from WoW(not the stupid addons like DBM others which are just plain stupid).
BW should allow you to customize the UI with a simple XML/Any other type of format, just some template file that will enable you to declare position, and scale of the UI elements and the transperancy of textures. I've prefer having 0 textures in my UI's and have simple transperant frames. also on-hover mechanics for showing/hiding UI elements could be very nice too.
Exactly features as simple as that should really be in an AAA MMOG. Personally I don't even need the hide/showing option but agree about having 0 textures in my UI, I've seen great UI artworks but man they took about 1/3 of the whole screen in WoW, horrible to raid with thats why I always used LUI with some more minimalistic options.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I don't get why they are so different as to require a different mechanic for one than the other. Why have an indicator for procs and not cooldowns? Why do you have no problem monitoring cooldowns but you do procs? I don't really get this line of reasoning.
Cooldowns are timed and after a while you roughly learn how soon you will be able to use an ability again. The only time I need to look is if I get it wrong and try using an ability that doesn't fire so I look and go "ok another 4s before i can use that".
Reactive abilities are more random, you would have to be looking constantly at that area of the screen.
not till someone can give me a logical explaination as to why they would not include something like this..:P
They might want those abbility to feel more like a treat then a must have to yoru rotation. Since if you just had an indicator in game your procs would largely get to being nothign but a random part of your rotation. To some being able to multi-talsk in such a manner that they can both pay attention t the content as well as to what is active forr them to use is more of a immerson factor as well as a fun parrt of the playstyle compared to annoying indicaors or pop ups that tell you it is ready. Having an option would not be a terrible thigns that could toggle them on or off, but to be seen as viable i bet you would have to have it toggled on for the majority. I could careless either ways as i always prefer the reactive playing style of these types of players with using an indicator as it is more rewarding to me then using it.
You're trying to tell me that, through 50 levels of questing, pvp, and raiding that you're not going to be able to differentiate your buffs and debuffs from someone elses'?
That sounds like something you acquire an eye for when just starting to learn your class.
Not at all. I've already adjusted to looking for those procs on my Assassin in beta. Every 10 seconds I would start looking for that icon to pop up.
I'm trying to tell you that it's a sloppy and poorly designed system and it needs to be improved. A player shouldn't have to fight the UI to assimilate information.
I guess that would depend on the player. A player (me) didn't have that issue at all. A player (you) might have.
I think we have established that you think you are God's gift to MMO's maskedweasel. Congratulations on your epicness.
As stated its a point of perception, you apparently have a problem, just because you do, doesn't mean everyone does. You aren't the only player in the game.
Exactly. Just because you don't have a problem, doesn't mean nobody does. You aren't the only player in the game.
Exactly! That doesn't mean that I'm right, or they are right, its a matter of perception. BioWare will listen to the feedback, if they decide to add it, great, if not, then they won't. people playing will have to deal either way.
Complaining on this forum isn't exactly going to accomplish anything. Getting angry at me because I disagree with the need for it right now won't change the fact that its unlikely a feature like this will be available on launch.
Well I personally am not asking for this to be in at launch, that would be silly. It’s already the 12th, and early access begins on the 13th. Do I want it in the game at some point? Absolutely. Will it be in the game at some point? Hard to say, but I would hazard a guess that it is actually more likely than not, though I could be wrong.
Also, I for one am not “complaining” at all. Discussing / debating, and complaining are entirely different things. Some people in this thread may be complaining, both for and against, but that’s the internet for you. Things don’t need to server a specific purpose.
Anyway, not sure if you were referring to me, but I am not angry at anyone, merely stating my opinion and putting forth my argument.
Cooldowns are timed and after a while you roughly learn how soon you will be able to use an ability again. The only time I need to look is if I get it wrong and try using an ability that doesn't fire so I look and go "ok another 4s before i can use that".
Reactive abilities are more random, you would have to be looking constantly at that area of the screen.
Any game which requires you to A) look at cooldowns, and look at xmas lights belongs in the trashbin/back on the drawing board.
MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull.
Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper...
That's ofc unless you are in the US army where you are not allowed to reuse mags and get newly wrapped fully loaded ones every time.
The same mechanics should be put into the game but not into the game UI, a perfect game has no UI at all, ALA deadspace where every thing is integrated into the enviorment. And yes this is totally possible in MMORPG's as soon as they grow out of you need 40+ skills to be an RPG these days phase.
Any game which requires you to A) look at cooldowns, and look at xmas lights belongs in the trashbin/back on the drawing board.
MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull.
Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper...
That's ofc unless you are in the US army where you are not allowed to reuse mags and get newly wrapped fully loaded ones every time.
The same mechanics should be put into the game but not into the game UI, a perfect game has no UI at all, ALA deadspace where every thing is integrated into the enviorment. And yes this is totally possible in MMORPG's as soon as they grow out of you need 40+ skills to be an RPG these days phase.
hopefully the day of the UI less MMO is not far away...
ok so ive been reading through this and trying to understand something.
how do you know when your cooldowns are up?
you have to watch your bars anyway. so why does the indicator need to be any different than what is there?
Because some people are spoiled with UIs, that basically are playing the game for you. Watching an usual UI bar seems to be to much of a task for them. An UI needs to be scale and moveable plus minimalistic but thats about it, no need for easymode stuff.
This seems to be the generic argument against such a feature being implemented. It’s really not a very good one at all.
Having more clearly defined visual cues does not automatically make the game “easy mode.” You are still playing the game, pressing all the buttons, but instead of looking at your action bar or your buff icons to see whether or not you have a specific proc, you are looking at your “character,” or generally at your screen. You have to keep track of slightly less and you gain a slightly better perspective of the battlefield etc, in some cases at least, in other cases practically nothing will change at all. It’s really not a huge difference and for the most part it will not have much of an impact for the average player. However, it will make a large difference for some people, which would make the game more accessible, which is good. Nobody suffers. There’s no viable downside that could outweigh this benefit. The better players will still be better. The worse players will indeed be better off than they were before, to varying degrees, but this is trivial.
Originally posted by DOGMA1138 Originally posted by Eraserhead Cooldowns are timed and after a while you roughly learn how soon you will be able to use an ability again. The only time I need to look is if I get it wrong and try using an ability that doesn't fire so I look and go "ok another 4s before i can use that". Reactive abilities are more random, you would have to be looking constantly at that area of the screen.
Any game which requires you to A) look at cooldowns, and look at xmas lights belongs in the trashbin/back on the drawing board. MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull. Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper... Visual animations or audible queues on defense of an attack would be the ideal way to deal with reactive abilities. To have to learn sounds for example the sound a shield makes when blocking an attack is much more immersive and useful than waiting for a button to light up on a hotbar which unless you are someone who clicks their abilities you are never likely to see anyway. Barring anything as fancy as that a simple "blocked/parried" text where damage numbers usually appear would do.
This seems to be the generic argument against such a feature being implemented. It’s really not a very good one at all.
Having more clearly defined visual cues does not automatically make the game “easy mode.” You are still playing the game, pressing all the buttons, but instead of looking at your action bar or your buff icons to see whether or not you have a specific proc, you are looking at your “character,” or generally at your screen. You have to keep track of slightly less and you gain a slightly better perspective of the battlefield etc, in some cases at least, in other cases practically nothing will change at all. It’s really not a huge difference and for the most part it will not have much of an impact for the average player. However, it will make a large difference for some people, which would make the game more accessible, which is good. Nobody suffers. There’s no viable downside that could outweigh this benefit. The better players will still be better. The worse players will indeed be better off than they were before, to varying degrees, but this is trivial.
very well put and is why I made the thread to begin with I find it very bizzare such a simple feature was not put into such a big game from the get go.. the argument not to have it just doesn't really make any sense
Originally posted by DOGMA1138 Originally posted by Eraserhead Cooldowns are timed and after a while you roughly learn how soon you will be able to use an ability again. The only time I need to look is if I get it wrong and try using an ability that doesn't fire so I look and go "ok another 4s before i can use that". Reactive abilities are more random, you would have to be looking constantly at that area of the screen.
Any game which requires you to A) look at cooldowns, and look at xmas lights belongs in the trashbin/back on the drawing board. MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull. Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper... That's ofc unless you are in the US army where you are not allowed to reuse mags and get newly wrapped fully loaded ones every time. The same mechanics should be put into the game but not into the game UI, a perfect game has no UI at all, ALA deadspace where every thing is integrated into the enviorment. And yes this is totally possible in MMORPG's as soon as they grow out of you need 40+ skills to be an RPG these days phase.
Uhm, we're not pretending it's some revolutionary amazing thing that we have never seen before, but we are not pretending it's the Antichrist either. It works fine, I don't think most people memorize cooldowns the way you say they do. Maybe DPS does, but healers and tanks don't pop their cooldowns every time they are up. When I am healing and tanking I am managing cooldowns, which requires watching them to some extent .. and while watching them it is a simple matter of also watching my procs .. which are on the same UI bars.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
This probably comes down to which game you play and as you say which class. Many people don't look at the skillbar very often. Some classes don't have many abilities with long cooldowns and it's easier to memorise say 15s cooldowns.
In a pvp situation at least I would argue that the lost time, reduced movement and loss of awareness of your surroundings from having to be staring at a hotbar on the offchance that you catch a usable reactive ability can cause their use to cost more than they are worth. That may not always be true in generally more stationary pve encounters.
Either way, a skillbar watcher seeing a lit up button or a keybinder who doesn't use skillbars seeing a "parry" text above his enemy, neither one is more or less skilled than the other.
Totally agreed. On one hand, one is nice to have but not important or in any hurry, while the other improve longetivity. But the "me me me" and "want it now" crowd seems not to understand this.
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
I know they got a lot of feedback through beta about this and why those 3 simple things are not in launch of such a big AAA MMO title really boggles my mind
Well KOTOR had awefull UI too, too bad they couldn't copy NWN 2's UI it is pretty decent, rift has a nice UI too.
UI customization is the only thing ill miss from WoW(not the stupid addons like DBM others which are just plain stupid).
BW should allow you to customize the UI with a simple XML/Any other type of format, just some template file that will enable you to declare position, and scale of the UI elements and the transperancy of textures. I've prefer having 0 textures in my UI's and have simple transperant frames. also on-hover mechanics for showing/hiding UI elements could be very nice too.
Exactly features as simple as that should really be in an AAA MMOG. Personally I don't even need the hide/showing option but agree about having 0 textures in my UI, I've seen great UI artworks but man they took about 1/3 of the whole screen in WoW, horrible to raid with thats why I always used LUI with some more minimalistic options.
Did BW ever give a reason for why they are not making the UI more friendly --- like moveable elements, hide graphics, or scale it smaller?
I cannot imagine that their engine, in 2012, is unable to easily do such, and considering that gamers make such mods for other MMO's, I do not believe that it would be overly taxing -- probably something a professional dev could do in a few short hours.
So is there a reason for no options at all?
Edit: Also, are any of the UI Elements able to be hidden?
Comments
Well how ever small point you have, your examples are inherently flawed. This isn't something that requires an extra window to be opened in game to monitor how much ammo you have, or something that completely throws off your targeting. It's a button not lighting up all x-mas'y so you can see it when it lights up.
Seriously?
I have another issue, I want realizism in this game, so much that I want a toilet in my spaceship. I'm gonna crusade about that, and I want it to light up so everyone around can see it when it's been used recenlty!
Petition: Glowy Spaceship Toilet!
This is seriously how silly you sound Draemos.
Personally I don't care if they make it light up or not, I'll play the game and have fun doing it without it. Sorry that it ruined your life or the enjoyment that it may have brought to those around you that you feel the need to beat into submission.
Commence your backhanded reply now, it's expected=)
Never said anything about cooldowns. I usually put my cooldowns on their own bar so I can easily monitor them. Procs are a different beast.
They really aren't you can put them into a different hotbar too, problem solved.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
honestly if I could at launch arrange my action bars where i want them I probably wouldn't of even brought up the OP at all.. the fact that you can't makes it stand out a lot more, to me at least than it should
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Open up an extra window? You should count the damn bullets as they come out the gun. You are paying attention right, you do know how many bullets are in a clip? or are you just being lazy?
Throws off your targeting? The center of the screen is where your bullets aim towards, why the hell do you need a reticle? Oh, your just being lazy.
What? That killstream pops up and says you have 10 kills and your ready to fly off in a chopper? Why didn't you count your damn kills yourself you lazy ass gamer!
Thats why I wrote a good UI has to be:
1. minimalistic
2. moveable
3. scaleable
As already mentioned in my review the TOR UI does need a lot of work, cause its feels clumsy at times but from my experience based on MMORPG releases don't expect it soon.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Wow! Just wow.
Have a nice day seething in your rage over nothing. I'll be busy laughing at you.
Thanks for the comic relief, I needed that.
I agree it's pretty comical when you start taking away UI elements from other games as a justification of increased difficulty.
I know they got a lot of feedback through beta about this and why those 3 simple things are not in launch of such a big AAA MMO title really boggles my mind
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I don't get why they are so different as to require a different mechanic for one than the other. Why have an indicator for procs and not cooldowns? Why do you have no problem monitoring cooldowns but you do procs? I don't really get this line of reasoning.
This I can agree with. At the very least, and I mean very least, I ought to be able to move things around and make them bigger/smaller (I'm looking at you chatbox, oh how you mock me in your steadfast refusal to do what I want).
Well KOTOR had awefull UI too, too bad they couldn't copy NWN 2's UI it is pretty decent, rift has a nice UI too.
UI customization is the only thing ill miss from WoW(not the stupid addons like DBM others which are just plain stupid).
BW should allow you to customize the UI with a simple XML/Any other type of format, just some template file that will enable you to declare position, and scale of the UI elements and the transperancy of textures. I've prefer having 0 textures in my UI's and have simple transperant frames. also on-hover mechanics for showing/hiding UI elements could be very nice too.
Exactly features as simple as that should really be in an AAA MMOG. Personally I don't even need the hide/showing option but agree about having 0 textures in my UI, I've seen great UI artworks but man they took about 1/3 of the whole screen in WoW, horrible to raid with thats why I always used LUI with some more minimalistic options.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Reactive abilities are more random, you would have to be looking constantly at that area of the screen.
MMORPG
They might want those abbility to feel more like a treat then a must have to yoru rotation. Since if you just had an indicator in game your procs would largely get to being nothign but a random part of your rotation. To some being able to multi-talsk in such a manner that they can both pay attention t the content as well as to what is active forr them to use is more of a immerson factor as well as a fun parrt of the playstyle compared to annoying indicaors or pop ups that tell you it is ready. Having an option would not be a terrible thigns that could toggle them on or off, but to be seen as viable i bet you would have to have it toggled on for the majority. I could careless either ways as i always prefer the reactive playing style of these types of players with using an indicator as it is more rewarding to me then using it.
Well I personally am not asking for this to be in at launch, that would be silly. It’s already the 12th, and early access begins on the 13th. Do I want it in the game at some point? Absolutely. Will it be in the game at some point? Hard to say, but I would hazard a guess that it is actually more likely than not, though I could be wrong.
Also, I for one am not “complaining” at all. Discussing / debating, and complaining are entirely different things. Some people in this thread may be complaining, both for and against, but that’s the internet for you. Things don’t need to server a specific purpose.
Anyway, not sure if you were referring to me, but I am not angry at anyone, merely stating my opinion and putting forth my argument.
Any game which requires you to A) look at cooldowns, and
look at xmas lights belongs in the trashbin/back on the drawing board.
MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull.
Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper...
That's ofc unless you are in the US army where you are not allowed to reuse mags and get newly wrapped fully loaded ones every time.
The same mechanics should be put into the game but not into the game UI, a perfect game has no UI at all, ALA deadspace where every thing is integrated into the enviorment. And yes this is totally possible in MMORPG's as soon as they grow out of you need 40+ skills to be an RPG these days phase.
hopefully the day of the UI less MMO is not far away...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
This seems to be the generic argument against such a feature being implemented. It’s really not a very good one at all.
Having more clearly defined visual cues does not automatically make the game “easy mode.” You are still playing the game, pressing all the buttons, but instead of looking at your action bar or your buff icons to see whether or not you have a specific proc, you are looking at your “character,” or generally at your screen. You have to keep track of slightly less and you gain a slightly better perspective of the battlefield etc, in some cases at least, in other cases practically nothing will change at all. It’s really not a huge difference and for the most part it will not have much of an impact for the average player. However, it will make a large difference for some people, which would make the game more accessible, which is good. Nobody suffers. There’s no viable downside that could outweigh this benefit. The better players will still be better. The worse players will indeed be better off than they were before, to varying degrees, but this is trivial.
MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull.
Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper...
Visual animations or audible queues on defense of an attack would be the ideal way to deal with reactive abilities. To have to learn sounds for example the sound a shield makes when blocking an attack is much more immersive and useful than waiting for a button to light up on a hotbar which unless you are someone who clicks their abilities you are never likely to see anyway. Barring anything as fancy as that a simple "blocked/parried" text where damage numbers usually appear would do.
MMORPG
very well put and is why I made the thread to begin with I find it very bizzare such a simple feature was not put into such a big game from the get go.. the argument not to have it just doesn't really make any sense
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
MMO's should evolve beyond their simon says / wack a mole phase, i don't think SWTOR is there yet alltough some people on the forums are trying to convince themselves and every one around them that it is. If you have a skill that is avialble after a parry for example there should be no xmas light for that, you should see the parry, the swords locking, and then know that as soon as the animation has finished your can counter attack. Anything less than that in 2011 is pitifull.
Back to the gun analogy, there is no ammo counter in real life, there is also no one on the planet that count's their rounds during a firefight, in the real world soldeirs who care for their ammo put a tracer rounds after the first 2-3 rounds in the mag, smart / experienced people put a tracer as their 3rd or 5th round to know when they are running low, newbies who like to waste space put tracers every 5-6 rounds which reduces their total ammo count by 20%+ since tracers break mid air and can bearly penetrate a sheet of paper...
That's ofc unless you are in the US army where you are not allowed to reuse mags and get newly wrapped fully loaded ones every time.
The same mechanics should be put into the game but not into the game UI, a perfect game has no UI at all, ALA deadspace where every thing is integrated into the enviorment. And yes this is totally possible in MMORPG's as soon as they grow out of you need 40+ skills to be an RPG these days phase.
Uhm, we're not pretending it's some revolutionary amazing thing that we have never seen before, but we are not pretending it's the Antichrist either. It works fine, I don't think most people memorize cooldowns the way you say they do. Maybe DPS does, but healers and tanks don't pop their cooldowns every time they are up. When I am healing and tanking I am managing cooldowns, which requires watching them to some extent .. and while watching them it is a simple matter of also watching my procs .. which are on the same UI bars.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
This probably comes down to which game you play and as you say which class. Many people don't look at the skillbar very often. Some classes don't have many abilities with long cooldowns and it's easier to memorise say 15s cooldowns.
In a pvp situation at least I would argue that the lost time, reduced movement and loss of awareness of your surroundings from having to be staring at a hotbar on the offchance that you catch a usable reactive ability can cause their use to cost more than they are worth. That may not always be true in generally more stationary pve encounters.
Either way, a skillbar watcher seeing a lit up button or a keybinder who doesn't use skillbars seeing a "parry" text above his enemy, neither one is more or less skilled than the other.
MMORPG
@maskedweasel
Totally agreed. On one hand, one is nice to have but not important or in any hurry, while the other improve longetivity. But the "me me me" and "want it now" crowd seems not to understand this.
Did BW ever give a reason for why they are not making the UI more friendly --- like moveable elements, hide graphics, or scale it smaller?
I cannot imagine that their engine, in 2012, is unable to easily do such, and considering that gamers make such mods for other MMO's, I do not believe that it would be overly taxing -- probably something a professional dev could do in a few short hours.
So is there a reason for no options at all?
Edit: Also, are any of the UI Elements able to be hidden?