First, the buff bars are extremely small. Second, the buff bars can be extremely crowded with abilities dependent on how many buffs you have. THe icon doesn't always come up in the same place. Third, I just gave you an example of a buff that doesn't fit neatly into your tidy little explanation of why I should apparently be expected to watch my buff bar instead of actually playing the game.
PVP it becomes even more difficult with even more buffs/debuffs flying around.. and watching buff bar in any shape or form makes the game less fun(why I always hated healing in most MMOs). Whether it makes the game more difficult or not is not the issue it just makes it less fun for me and many others to have to take your eyes off the action for these tyoe of things.. yes ideally i would love a system where any proc or reactive ability would have a combat animation so you could tell by just that but obviously they didn't get that in depth with combat animations here for such a thing(it's gotta be a difficult thing to implement in a MMO ill admit).
1) UI Modification is being worked on by a team right now, there trying to get it done for release but it might not be ready until shortly after launch
2) Dev's have said that they will see how things go and don't believe duel spec'ing is needed right away, they did say they would review it again down the road once everyone starts hitting 50 and determine if they will need to put in duel spec'ing WITHIN THE SAME AC (odds are this will probably be put in sooner or later).
3) There will NOT be Duel AC spec'ing
4) They are looking to allow you to change you AC but it will be designed so you can really only afford to do it once or twice.
5) Macro's will be in the game after launch, but they said they don't want macro's that automate combat. So we really don't know the extent of what the macro's will and will not do, have to wait and see what Bioware gives us.
Agree, I so hated all the mods that made this big icon appear on your screen saying hey click me iwth your mouse, and voila no thinking just keep clicking the big icon that magically appears for the best move, ugh
Right, clicking on a larger icon with an easy-to-see indicator takes no thinking, but clicking on a smaller icon with a harder to see indicator is a task that takes a rocket scientist to complete. Got it.
Wow, man. I feel your pain. I mean, actually having to pay attention to things. The horror.
This should have been the end of the thread. Let me try to help you all out here since there is an obvious communications diconnect:
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Wow, man.
This is where jdlamson75, brilliantly uses sarcasim to feign surprise that someone is upset that the game doesn't play itself for them.
Originally posted by jdlamson75
I feel your pain.
Here jdlamson75 employs faux empathy. Yet another scintillating quip. In this phrase he is bringing the reader closer to him by wording it in a comforting manner, all the while actually being scathingly contemtuous.
Originally posted by jdlamson75
I mean, actually having to pay attention to things.
This is the diamond on the crown. Here jdlamson75's facetiousness cleverly masks his true intent; which is also the crux of his point. The metaphorical tip of his spear. By setting up the pretense that he has a genuine interest in the original poster's opinion. In reality, he is making a scornful commentary on the fact that people (read: drones) expect the game to tell them how to play their class in an optimal manner, because making critical thinking decisions is far beyond their comprehension.
Originally posted by jdlamson75
The horror.
Finally he salts the wound with a quick and easy remark. This time he evokes a sense of dread and fear at the necessity of having to be aware of your own abilities and timing their use. However, his actual meaning is such that people who can't pay attention to simple things shouldn't be playing games. I would go one further and say they shouldn't be procreating if they are so lazy that they can't shift their eyes to a corner of the screen and react correctly.
Wow, man. I feel your pain. I mean, actually having to pay attention to things. The horror.
This should have been the end of the thread. Let me try to help you all out here since there is an obvious communications diconnect:
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Wow, man.
This is where jdlamson75, brilliantly uses sarcasim to feign surprise that someone is upset that the game doesn't play itself for them.
Originally posted by jdlamson75
I feel your pain.
Here jdlamson75 employs faux empathy. Yet another scintillating quip. In this phrase he is bringing the reader closer to him by wording it in a comforting manner, all the while actually being scathingly contemtuous.
Originally posted by jdlamson75
I mean, actually having to pay attention to things.
This is the diamond on the crown. Here jdlamson75's facetiousness cleverly masks his true intent; which is also the crux of his point. The metaphorical tip of his spear. By setting up the pretense that he has a genuine interest in the original poster's opinion. In reality, he is making a scornful commentary on the fact that people (read: drones) expect the game to tell them how to play their class in an optimal manner, because making critical thinking decisions is far beyond their comprehension.
Originally posted by jdlamson75
The horror.
Finally he salts the wound with a quick and easy remark. This time he evokes a sense of dread and fear at the necessity of having to be aware of your own abilities and timing their use. However, his actual meaning is such that people who can't pay attention to simple things shouldn't be playing games. I would go one further and say they shouldn't be procreating if they are so lazy that they can't shift their eyes to a corner of the screen and react correctly.
Now maybe this thread can be over?
Is this going to be on the exam? Oh man, I'm boned.
I can deal and see why people don't want macros. Although I don't see issue with system like rifts macro but again it's not a huge deal to me. What does bug me is why there is no indicator for reactive abilities? No pop-up box, no glowing indicator nothing. This really doesn't make sense to me since pretty much every game released now comes with this feature in one way or another.
For me it takes so much out of combat because either A you miss the ability half the time cause you didn't know it was ready or B you spend way to much time watching your skill bar seeing if the ability is available.
That's one of the things I suggested/gave feedback on in the beta. I really liked Aion's way of doing it and would love to see that put into SWTOR.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
I have been playing EvE, until I get my access to SWTOR, but thanks.
You seem pretty confident and proud, I like that. One thing I do understand, everyone else outside your big head have various learning curves. What you see as another hand held MMO can come across difficult to grasp or understand to others. Sorry, but not everyone can be as PRO as you.
how in any way is SWTOR a hard game or unlike any other big MMO release of the last few years in that aspect? MMOs of the past years have not been made difficult games and are made to cater to casual gamers. This game even more so cause they are trying to bring in the single player crowd as well. So I really don't see how I'm coming off as having a big head by stating how these games are designed.
Apparently hard enough that you need an oh shit proc button!
I have been playing EvE, until I get my access to SWTOR, but thanks.
You seem pretty confident and proud, I like that. One thing I do understand, everyone else outside your big head have various learning curves. What you see as another hand held MMO can come across difficult to grasp or understand to others. Sorry, but not everyone can be as PRO as you.
how in any way is SWTOR a hard game or unlike any other big MMO release of the last few years in that aspect? MMOs of the past years have not been made difficult games and are made to cater to casual gamers. This game even more so cause they are trying to bring in the single player crowd as well. So I really don't see how I'm coming off as having a big head by stating how these games are designed.
Apparently hard enough that you need an oh shit proc button!
wow after all these posts you guys still don't get the point. It has nothing to do with hard or easy its a feature that allows you to keep your eyes off your buff or skill bar and on the action nothing more which for me makes the game much more enjoyable
Seriously, when did "skill" in MMO's become equated with "watching squares change color," with less noticable changes meaning more skill required?
The problem is not with reactive skills being easily noticable. The problem is that reactive abilities tend to be really powerfull with no real downsides. It wouldn't matter if a big icon appears in the middle of your screen along with a text+VO pop up that says "Counter Attack can now be used!" if using the ability would entail some sort of meaningfull downside. It would then up to the player to determine if the positives of the ability outweigh the negatives given the particular circumstances that the player finds himself in.
As it stands, a reactive skill becoming available almost always means that it is in your best interest to use it as soon as possible, thus no thinking is required to use it; just wait for it to light up and press the button. Under this inane system, yes, making an ability more noticable is technically making the game "easier." But that's a flaw with the skill and the underlying system itself, not with noticability.
I have been playing EvE, until I get my access to SWTOR, but thanks.
You seem pretty confident and proud, I like that. One thing I do understand, everyone else outside your big head have various learning curves. What you see as another hand held MMO can come across difficult to grasp or understand to others. Sorry, but not everyone can be as PRO as you.
how in any way is SWTOR a hard game or unlike any other big MMO release of the last few years in that aspect? MMOs of the past years have not been made difficult games and are made to cater to casual gamers. This game even more so cause they are trying to bring in the single player crowd as well. So I really don't see how I'm coming off as having a big head by stating how these games are designed.
Apparently hard enough that you need an oh shit proc button!
Rofl, the funny part is also the saddest part that in a so called easy game, people still need/want aids.
Seriously, when did "skill" in MMO's become equated with "watching squares change color," with less noticable changes meaning more skill required?
The problem is not with reactive skills being easily noticable. The problem is that reactive abilities tend to be really powerfull with no real downsides. It wouldn't matter if a big icon appears in the middle of your screen along with a text+VO pop up that says "Counter Attack can now be used!" if using the ability would entail some sort of meaningfull downside. It would then up to the player to determine if the positives of the ability outweigh the negatives given the particular circumstances that the player finds himself in.
As it stands, a reactive skill becoming available almost always means that it is in your best interest to use it as soon as possible, thus no thinking is required to use it; just wait for it to light up and press the button. Under this inane system, yes, making an ability more noticable is technically making the game "easier." But that's not how it should be.
I have been playing EvE, until I get my access to SWTOR, but thanks.
You seem pretty confident and proud, I like that. One thing I do understand, everyone else outside your big head have various learning curves. What you see as another hand held MMO can come across difficult to grasp or understand to others. Sorry, but not everyone can be as PRO as you.
how in any way is SWTOR a hard game or unlike any other big MMO release of the last few years in that aspect? MMOs of the past years have not been made difficult games and are made to cater to casual gamers. This game even more so cause they are trying to bring in the single player crowd as well. So I really don't see how I'm coming off as having a big head by stating how these games are designed.
Apparently hard enough that you need an oh shit proc button!
wow after all these posts you guys still don't get the point. It has nothing to do with hard or easy its a feature that allows you to keep your eyes off your buff or skill bar and on the action nothing more which for me makes the game much more enjoyable
A feature you want that will make it easy right? Looking down must be really hard?
I have been playing EvE, until I get my access to SWTOR, but thanks.
You seem pretty confident and proud, I like that. One thing I do understand, everyone else outside your big head have various learning curves. What you see as another hand held MMO can come across difficult to grasp or understand to others. Sorry, but not everyone can be as PRO as you.
how in any way is SWTOR a hard game or unlike any other big MMO release of the last few years in that aspect? MMOs of the past years have not been made difficult games and are made to cater to casual gamers. This game even more so cause they are trying to bring in the single player crowd as well. So I really don't see how I'm coming off as having a big head by stating how these games are designed.
Apparently hard enough that you need an oh shit proc button!
wow after all these posts you guys still don't get the point. It has nothing to do with hard or easy its a feature that allows you to keep your eyes off your buff or skill bar and on the action nothing more which for me makes the game much more enjoyable
Like many people are saying, it's just multitasking. You can keep tabs on more than one thing if you just put in some effort.
Example: I, personally, never focused to deep on my toolbar - quick glances here and there - and never found anything overwhelming or hard to control / time via cooldowns and procs. As well, I also manage to watch TV and play PC games at the same time - it's all the same, really.
It's definitely not as big a deal as you're trying to make it out to be by continuing to press the issue. SWTOR doesn't have it yet, and maybe they never will. It's not a STAPLE of MMOs, it simply happens to be in a few of them. You don't NEED indications to play the game effectively and enjoy it.
Like many people are saying, it's just multitasking. You can keep tabs on more than one thing if you just put in some effort.
Example: I, personally, never focused to deep on my toolbar - quick glances here and there - and never found anything overwhelming or hard to control / time via cooldowns and procs. As well, I also manage to watch TV and play PC games at the same time - it's all the same, really.
It's definitely not as big a deal as you're trying to make it out to be by continuing to press the issue. SWTOR doesn't have it yet, and maybe they never will. It's not a STAPLE of MMOs, it simply happens to be in a few of them. You don't NEED indications to play the game effectively and enjoy it.
just curious what MMO released in the last few years of this type that has reactive abilities doesn't have some sort of indication free or pay to play? I honestly can't think of one of the top of my head. I never said anywhere that this is game breaking or anything of the sort most people here have been blowing it way out of proportion. All I'm saying its a convienence feature in pretty much all MMOs and was trying to get some feedback as to why people felt it was left out cause it seems silly to me
EVE Online just now added a scaling UI and it's been out how many years now?
Just sayin..
My point exactly.
There's plenty of time to add trivial things like this. Let BW focus on major bugs instead of pointless attention-grabbers. It'll all come in time, anyway.
For the OP: That is my opinion as to why they've decided not to add the flashy graphics coincidentally, it also happens to be the majority opinion - judging by this thread, that is.
EVE Online just now added a scaling UI and it's been out how many years now?
Just sayin..
Congratulations to EVE on joining 2011. Coming next...2012.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This is a text book case of making a mountain out of a molehill. Really, you can't glance down at your skill bar for half a second to see whether an ability is on cooldown or not?
There aren't a lot of abilities that have long cool downs where you would need to continuously be glancing back to the bar.. or keeping your eyes trained on it.
There are procs in this game that are randomly applied that have significant affects on abilities. Theses aren't just binary can't or can use them procs. As an example, for Assassins, exploit weakness is a random proc on melee damage that reduces the energy requirements of Maul (backstab) by 50%, as well as adds an armor bypass aspect to the skill. Using Maul outside of exploit weakness is inefficient, but the game in no ways prevents me from using it(nor should it). What this results in is me hawking my buff bar looking for that extremely small little buff icon every 10 seconds to see when that skill procs.
This is sloppy game design, it's not fun and it detracts away from the actual battle. Is it really too much to ask for some sort of animation or sound affect on my character? It doesn't have to be big or flashy, but something so I don't have to stare at a damn buff bar
I am aware of the procs but they aren't random.... and you do get notified when any ability adds a status.
For example, on my consular, you can use rejuvenate, which then adds conveyence, which then adds certain special circumstances to my next healing abilities used.
By knowing this, its a matter of knowign your class... and knowing where to look. Yes, some classes do have certain abilities that have a % chance to add a special stat... but those are usually waived by passive abilities, and even still it shows you when it is successful on your bar, so you know when you use an ability when to look at your bar.... you don't havet o randomly look.
Its less about poor design and more about poor playing IMO. I never had a problem seeing and using any abilities properly. :shrug:
First, the buff bars are extremely small. Second, the buff bars can be extremely crowded with abilities dependent on how many buffs you have. THe icon doesn't always come up in the same place. Third, I just gave you an example of a proc that doesn't fit neatly into your tidy little explanation of why I should apparently be expected to watch my buff bar instead of actually playing the game, and you chose to ignore it because it hurts your argument. Fourth, I in fact do have to randomly look down at my buff bar to see when exploit weakness procs, as their are no other apparent indications
You're talking about 1 ability that has a max, 30% chance to grant the status, which would mean about a 1 in 3 chance out of every direct damage attack, .... it can't occur more than once every 10 seconds... so essentially, you aren't going to be watching your bar forever.... most battles wouldn't even last that long.
So it doesn't happen randomly, even in a worst case scenario it happens once in every 10 hits of direct damage, and only once every 10 seconds. Checking your status bar for 1 icon every 10 seconds or so doesn't sound tough to me, or poor planning.
Comments
PVP it becomes even more difficult with even more buffs/debuffs flying around.. and watching buff bar in any shape or form makes the game less fun(why I always hated healing in most MMOs). Whether it makes the game more difficult or not is not the issue it just makes it less fun for me and many others to have to take your eyes off the action for these tyoe of things.. yes ideally i would love a system where any proc or reactive ability would have a combat animation so you could tell by just that but obviously they didn't get that in depth with combat animations here for such a thing(it's gotta be a difficult thing to implement in a MMO ill admit).
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
taken from various interviews
1) UI Modification is being worked on by a team right now, there trying to get it done for release but it might not be ready until shortly after launch
2) Dev's have said that they will see how things go and don't believe duel spec'ing is needed right away, they did say they would review it again down the road once everyone starts hitting 50 and determine if they will need to put in duel spec'ing WITHIN THE SAME AC (odds are this will probably be put in sooner or later).
3) There will NOT be Duel AC spec'ing
4) They are looking to allow you to change you AC but it will be designed so you can really only afford to do it once or twice.
5) Macro's will be in the game after launch, but they said they don't want macro's that automate combat. So we really don't know the extent of what the macro's will and will not do, have to wait and see what Bioware gives us.
Right, clicking on a larger icon with an easy-to-see indicator takes no thinking, but clicking on a smaller icon with a harder to see indicator is a task that takes a rocket scientist to complete. Got it.
This should have been the end of the thread. Let me try to help you all out here since there is an obvious communications diconnect:
This is where jdlamson75, brilliantly uses sarcasim to feign surprise that someone is upset that the game doesn't play itself for them.
Here jdlamson75 employs faux empathy. Yet another scintillating quip. In this phrase he is bringing the reader closer to him by wording it in a comforting manner, all the while actually being scathingly contemtuous.
This is the diamond on the crown. Here jdlamson75's facetiousness cleverly masks his true intent; which is also the crux of his point. The metaphorical tip of his spear. By setting up the pretense that he has a genuine interest in the original poster's opinion. In reality, he is making a scornful commentary on the fact that people (read: drones) expect the game to tell them how to play their class in an optimal manner, because making critical thinking decisions is far beyond their comprehension.
Finally he salts the wound with a quick and easy remark. This time he evokes a sense of dread and fear at the necessity of having to be aware of your own abilities and timing their use. However, his actual meaning is such that people who can't pay attention to simple things shouldn't be playing games. I would go one further and say they shouldn't be procreating if they are so lazy that they can't shift their eyes to a corner of the screen and react correctly.
Now maybe this thread can be over?
you obviosuly missed the point of my OP or not cared to read anything in the thread.. so to answer your question.. no
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
You are either lazy, dumb or stubborn. Either way, stop. If you don't like having to pay attention and think quickly then there are two options:
1) Don't play
2) Play and shut up before you turn this into WoW 2 in Space.
Is this going to be on the exam? Oh man, I'm boned.
That's one of the things I suggested/gave feedback on in the beta. I really liked Aion's way of doing it and would love to see that put into SWTOR.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
thanks for the personal attacks and sorry it doesn't warrant a response...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Apparently hard enough that you need an oh shit proc button!
I'm pretty sure that was a response...
wow after all these posts you guys still don't get the point. It has nothing to do with hard or easy its a feature that allows you to keep your eyes off your buff or skill bar and on the action nothing more which for me makes the game much more enjoyable
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Seriously, when did "skill" in MMO's become equated with "watching squares change color," with less noticable changes meaning more skill required?
The problem is not with reactive skills being easily noticable. The problem is that reactive abilities tend to be really powerfull with no real downsides. It wouldn't matter if a big icon appears in the middle of your screen along with a text+VO pop up that says "Counter Attack can now be used!" if using the ability would entail some sort of meaningfull downside. It would then up to the player to determine if the positives of the ability outweigh the negatives given the particular circumstances that the player finds himself in.
As it stands, a reactive skill becoming available almost always means that it is in your best interest to use it as soon as possible, thus no thinking is required to use it; just wait for it to light up and press the button. Under this inane system, yes, making an ability more noticable is technically making the game "easier." But that's a flaw with the skill and the underlying system itself, not with noticability.
lol I meant aside from pointing out the obvious personal attack..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Rofl, the funny part is also the saddest part that in a so called easy game, people still need/want aids.
+1 for you very good point
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
once again not the point at all
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
A feature you want that will make it easy right? Looking down must be really hard?
Like many people are saying, it's just multitasking. You can keep tabs on more than one thing if you just put in some effort.
Example: I, personally, never focused to deep on my toolbar - quick glances here and there - and never found anything overwhelming or hard to control / time via cooldowns and procs. As well, I also manage to watch TV and play PC games at the same time - it's all the same, really.
It's definitely not as big a deal as you're trying to make it out to be by continuing to press the issue. SWTOR doesn't have it yet, and maybe they never will. It's not a STAPLE of MMOs, it simply happens to be in a few of them. You don't NEED indications to play the game effectively and enjoy it.
Reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6szE_qmzavQ
just curious what MMO released in the last few years of this type that has reactive abilities doesn't have some sort of indication free or pay to play? I honestly can't think of one of the top of my head. I never said anywhere that this is game breaking or anything of the sort most people here have been blowing it way out of proportion. All I'm saying its a convienence feature in pretty much all MMOs and was trying to get some feedback as to why people felt it was left out cause it seems silly to me
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
EVE Online just now added a scaling UI and it's been out how many years now?
Just sayin..
My point exactly.
There's plenty of time to add trivial things like this. Let BW focus on major bugs instead of pointless attention-grabbers. It'll all come in time, anyway.
For the OP: That is my opinion as to why they've decided not to add the flashy graphics coincidentally, it also happens to be the majority opinion - judging by this thread, that is.
Congratulations to EVE on joining 2011. Coming next...2012.“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You're talking about 1 ability that has a max, 30% chance to grant the status, which would mean about a 1 in 3 chance out of every direct damage attack, .... it can't occur more than once every 10 seconds... so essentially, you aren't going to be watching your bar forever.... most battles wouldn't even last that long.
So it doesn't happen randomly, even in a worst case scenario it happens once in every 10 hits of direct damage, and only once every 10 seconds. Checking your status bar for 1 icon every 10 seconds or so doesn't sound tough to me, or poor planning.