I have to be honest... I am f*cking stunned at how many of these people have drank the "story" koolaid... Its like they just regurgitate the same sh*t that Bioware has fed them for months, only to cover up the glaring issues that SWTOR has. When you can level cap in a week or two, that tells you that it is a END GAME GEAR GRIND...So much for "story" at that point right? Have fun running BGs over and over again for months...
I believe you're missing a few crucial components to accurately debate this point. Firstly, endgame is not the entire game. In fact, to many, the journey is what matters most, and if TOR can provide an enjoyable, varied, deep, and meaningful leveling experience, then I am sure it will retain a plethora of subscribers. Alas, I do believe its endgame is more than enough to satisfy the needs of the hardcore raiding segment of gaming populations. Will this game appeal to sandbox die-hards? Probably not, but that is irrelevant as that is not SWTOR's target audience.
If you want strict gameplay changes, then look elsewhere. What TOR does is provide a refined, fun, and deeply engaging experience that manages to appeal to both the hardcore and the casual masses of the gaming market. Do take note, however, that SWTOR's story is probably one of the largest innovations MMO's have seen and will probably see in a very long time.
And why have you not followed story lines in other MMOs? What makes SWTORs story any different other then it's IN SPACE? Is it cause you have to be read to like a child to find the story interesting?
No, it's because there actually IS a story, unlike other MMOs. Where was the story in WoW? Where was the story in Rift? EQ2? There weren't any. Lotro is the only other themepark MMO that actually has a story.
If you need someone to explain why TOR's story is actually different than other MMO's, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
Hey Cthulhu..
Do the stories in TOR interact with the world at all ?
( you had a lot to do with me changing my mind about playing, i am now lol so thought i would ask you )
*edited as I couldnt understand what i wrote*
Ill answer for him, no- not in the least bit... I beta'd the game for 3 months... my "story" did not impact the actual game world one bit... Think about it, you have 5000 people on a sever, 700 of which will be your exact class... how can they all impact the gaming world in their own way??? It cant happen, thats how...
Easy killer.. I shall give you a way.. FACTIONS. ( I am not talking about sith-republic )
However, I don't think SWTOR has this ? ( I am curious and want to know is all ).
For example, in vanguard if i gain faction with an area/city/group etc it may mean things with regard to my interaction with said area/city/group etc...
I am guessing the choices in my story don't really affect that ?
LOL!! Factions? OMG, this is a totally new concept ... oh wait, they were in WoW also. Woops.
I have to be honest... I am f*cking stunned at how many of these people have drank the "story" koolaid... Its like they just regurgitate the same sh*t that Bioware has fed them for months, only to cover up the glaring issues that SWTOR has. When you can level cap in a week or two, that tells you that it is a END GAME GEAR GRIND...So much for "story" at that point right? Have fun running BGs over and over again for months...
It's the new MMO smell. They wont notice it's the same old thing till the smell fades away.
Yup, same thing with warhammer... and me thinks it will again.
Warhammer was awesome...died quick to overlooks in on the development side but if it woulda been done right it would still be relevant today.
havnt gotten in yet but if the picture your painting me is Warhammer at launch minus the 40+ servers and stale PvE aspect im even more anxious to jump in tommorow.
And who knows what bioware will deliver on in the future as far as endgame goes, may be the same old same old or they may do something fresh, at the very least i see it being fun for at least a month which to me is worth the initial 50 bucks.
The only element that would 'change' anything is the story focus and the way it delivers it. Everything else is as generic as it comes. Honestly, I doubt the way they do the story will be recieved well enough to do much to change how MMos handle story.
Originally posted by Sepulcher I am curious what is so great about the story in SWTOR. I keep hearing people tell me the story is great, but then I ask them to give me an example of why its great and all I hear is "I had to kill 5 bad guys in a cave" or "I killed some creatures outside" or "Delivered a message to a guy" no matter how many discriptive words you add its just filler. If your great part in the "story" is to be the errand boy of the universe, then I don't see how it is any different from any other MMO with kill/gather/fedex quests. Anyone have an example of how great the story is?
I went undercover as a known pirate in order to gain the trust of a crime lord. A guy approached me at a bar. He knew the real pirate and confronted me calling me an imposter. I tried to bribe him but he wanted too much money so I killed him. When my friend played this part of the story out, he was able to flirt his way out of the situation. We had a laugh about it over the phone. Stuff like that happens every 5 minutes. Its great.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The only element that would 'change' anything is the story focus and the way it delivers it. Everything else is as generic as it comes. Honestly, I doubt the way they do the story will be recieved well enough to do much to change how MMos handle story.
This^^
Decent game, same ol' mechanics that every themepark MMO uses, story is a nice enjoyment to lvling and really seen it being nothing than besides that.
My money is on other MMOs coming up that will really change things up, SWTOR... eh just an extremely overhyped MMO imo but a successful one regardless. I'm just part of the crown that is sick of the repeat n rinse MMO formula, want something diffentt, something fresh, something fun and not a grind wheel.
I am curious what is so great about the story in SWTOR. I keep hearing people tell me the story is great, but then I ask them to give me an example of why its great and all I hear is "I had to kill 5 bad guys in a cave" or "I killed some creatures outside" or "Delivered a message to a guy" no matter how many discriptive words you add its just filler. If your great part in the "story" is to be the errand boy of the universe, then I don't see how it is any different from any other MMO with kill/gather/fedex quests.
Anyone have an example of how great the story is?
I went undercover as a known pirate in order to gain the trust of a crime lord. A guy approached me at a bar. He knew the real pirate and confronted me calling me an imposter. I tried to bribe him but he wanted too much money so I killed him. When my friend played this part of the story out, he was able to flirt his way out of the situation. We had a laugh about it over the phone. Stuff like that happens every 5 minutes. Its great.
How did this effect your characters progression vs your friends? What were the rewards and penalties associated with your different choices?
The only element that would 'change' anything is the story focus and the way it delivers it. Everything else is as generic as it comes. Honestly, I doubt the way they do the story will be recieved well enough to do much to change how MMos handle story.
This^^
Decent game, same ol' mechanics that every themepark MMO uses, story is a nice enjoyment to lvling and really seen it being nothing than besides that.
My money is on other MMOs coming up that will really change things up, SWTOR... eh just an extremely overhyped MMO imo but a successful one regardless. I'm just part of the crown that is sick of the repeat n rinse MMO formula, want something diffentt, something fresh, something fun and not a grind wheel.
just outta curiousity what mmo are you referencing here?
And why have you not followed story lines in other MMOs? What makes SWTORs story any different other then it's IN SPACE? Is it cause you have to be read to like a child to find the story interesting?
No, it's because there actually IS a story, unlike other MMOs. Where was the story in WoW? Where was the story in Rift? EQ2? There weren't any. Lotro is the only other themepark MMO that actually has a story.
If you need someone to explain why TOR's story is actually different than other MMO's, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
WoW: The two factions competeing against each other, the imposter advisor in SW, many other story elements just not a personal story.
All the MMOs had a story which I'm not gonna bother getting into in em if one bothered to read and inverst in it. SWTOR simpley makes it more interactive and people are all over the "flashness" of the presentation. Give it time an it will grow stale quick, just like some are already skipping convo scenes.
The only element that would 'change' anything is the story focus and the way it delivers it. Everything else is as generic as it comes. Honestly, I doubt the way they do the story will be recieved well enough to do much to change how MMos handle story.
This^^
Decent game, same ol' mechanics that every themepark MMO uses, story is a nice enjoyment to lvling and really seen it being nothing than besides that.
My money is on other MMOs coming up that will really change things up, SWTOR... eh just an extremely overhyped MMO imo but a successful one regardless. I'm just part of the crown that is sick of the repeat n rinse MMO formula, want something diffentt, something fresh, something fun and not a grind wheel.
just outta curiousity what mmo are you referencing here?
I avoided mentioning it because I don't want to start a MMO pissing contest as it will lead to that.
But my money is on TSW and GW2, but lets leave it at that, just so sick and tired of the whole "my MMO is better than yours" pissing contest.
Seriously is the OP kidding himself with that Title?? the MMO that will change everything? WoW.. just wow.. Bioware did nothing new.. granted it seemed to be a solid game... but its not a "MMO that will change everything" they threw in alot of voice acting and threw a WoW game into a Star wars Skins... nothing new this OP is a joke... just a fanboy
What we have here is basically a World of Warcraft for Star Wars fans. I think SW:TOR will be a success and will most likely maintain a solid second place in total subscriber numbers, but realistically what competition is there? Aside from WoW, Rift is pretty much it's only competition, and SW:TOR is miles ahead of that game.
I really can't think of why I would not continue playing this over World of Warcraft seeing as I'm a Star Wars fan and a fan of BioWare games, but it does have its issues that will turn a large number of players away.
The same way an everquest clone changed everything?
I agree this isnt groundbreaking but neither was wow.
Yeah but Everquest clones are easy to replicate on a pretty small budget. TOR can not be replicated. You think you will EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR see any indie dev EVERRRR have voice acting like this seriously?
Next time you will see voice acting like this when Bethesda turns Elder Scrolls into a mmorpg and shows you all what a actual rpg looks like. End game for TOR is same ice cream different flavor....dailies...raids...instances...war fronts. Stop acting like this is peoples first time on this treadmill. Some of us have been doing this for awhile.
Best thing TOR does for the genre is pull WoW fanbois away from Blizzard and weaken their pure and utter stagnation of the genre.
Originally posted by Sepulcher Originally posted by DannyGlover
Originally posted by Sepulcher I am curious what is so great about the story in SWTOR. I keep hearing people tell me the story is great, but then I ask them to give me an example of why its great and all I hear is "I had to kill 5 bad guys in a cave" or "I killed some creatures outside" or "Delivered a message to a guy" no matter how many discriptive words you add its just filler. If your great part in the "story" is to be the errand boy of the universe, then I don't see how it is any different from any other MMO with kill/gather/fedex quests. Anyone have an example of how great the story is?
I went undercover as a known pirate in order to gain the trust of a crime lord. A guy approached me at a bar. He knew the real pirate and confronted me calling me an imposter. I tried to bribe him but he wanted too much money so I killed him. When my friend played this part of the story out, he was able to flirt his way out of the situation. We had a laugh about it over the phone. Stuff like that happens every 5 minutes. Its great. How did this effect your characters progression vs your friends? What were the rewards and penalties associated with your different choices? Are you talking about if we eventually ended up in the same place? For now, I think so. Who knows, maybe that guy will come back around for him later on. I got dark side points for killing him, my friend got light side I believe.
All I know is that we did the same quests and were able to interact with them differently based on our choices. At the end of the day, we may end up in the exact same place. But the journey so far is quite different for both of us.
You can approach a quest giver and he may say "Can you help me find a lost package in the swamps?" You can just say, "Sure", and be on your way. Or you can ask how you lost it. He may say some guy mugged him and he last saw him in the swamp. You can then ask about that guy. Then ask why he doesn't just do it himself. You can tell him he's an idiot and refuse the quest. In the end, you either do it or you don't, but your own experience will vary based on what interests you and how much you want to engage in the stories and conversations.
For what it is, its a great system and a lot of fun. I think some people cannot see the forest through the trees. Bioware has delivered exactly what they said they would. And it works. People seem to rail on this game because its not something they want. Its like bashing an orange because it doesn't taste like a banana. Figure out what you like, find a game that has it. Its really that simple. Not directing this at you in particular, Sepulcher. I'm just saying in general.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
What Bioware has done that may in fact have an impact on the industry is taken the "grind" out of leveling.
The story aspects make the leveling process almost painless.
And this is my fifth time though the game, after months of playing, so don't even give me that "oh yeah...well, give it a month" line.
I've said it before, and here I go again....there is NOTHING that could make the people on this site happy. They are determined to grip and pick apart ANY game, no matter how good it is.....so don't let them get to you OP.
I share your enthusiasm. SWTOR is a great game. Don't let this site poison your experience.
That is your opinion. To me the grind is still there and is actually worse in SWTOR because the quest variety is non-existent. You feel like you're repeating the same quests over and over again on each planet it is becomes a grind to get to the story. Unless I missed a quest somewhere there are only 2-3 escort quests in the whole game on the empire side(Balmora, tatooine, and Belsavis), I hate escort quests but even I think they could have at least tossed some more in to spice things up. I was bored of filler quests my first playthrough of the game, the second time I couldn't hit spacebar fast enough, the third time I couldn't do more than a handful in a session before trying alternative means(Warzones, Spacecombat, mob grinding).
All I can say is that more than a few people started skipping all the filler quest stories/VO because they aren't important or meaningful in any way. Once you skip that dialog the grind is just the same as WoW or any other quest based MMO where people skip the quest text. I'll agree the illusion of less grind is there for some people but by no means is it there for all.
I do think that SWTOR will help shape future games, but not they way people think. I think developers are going to look at SWTOR and see things that shouldn't be done because their cost to implement compared to their value in gameplay just isn't there. I think you will see SWTOR used as a reason to move away from the generic themepark design.
SWTOR is a great game IF you really like story, otherwise it is a mediocre MMO that lacks in more than a few departments.
The only element that would 'change' anything is the story focus and the way it delivers it. Everything else is as generic as it comes. Honestly, I doubt the way they do the story will be recieved well enough to do much to change how MMos handle story.
This^^
Decent game, same ol' mechanics that every themepark MMO uses, story is a nice enjoyment to lvling and really seen it being nothing than besides that.
My money is on other MMOs coming up that will really change things up, SWTOR... eh just an extremely overhyped MMO imo but a successful one regardless. I'm just part of the crown that is sick of the repeat n rinse MMO formula, want something diffentt, something fresh, something fun and not a grind wheel.
just outta curiousity what mmo are you referencing here?
I avoided mentioning it because I don't want to start a MMO pissing contest as it will lead to that.
But my money is on TSW and GW2, but lets leave it at that, just so sick and tired of the whole "my MMO is better than yours" pissing contest.
Seeing as how i havnt played any 3 of the mmos in question i cant argue over which is better but i can say that from what i read GW2 aside from being a AAA polished title isnt taking any huge leaps in the genre either...I hope TSW does pan out but i could never bring myself to put money on funcom.
SWTOR seems like a fun few weeks...anything after that depends on what bioware does but in all likelyhood they wont be catoring to me but rather the majority of people who will in all likelyhood want to make swtor a social raiding experience like wow.
BUT...maybe...just maybe...theyll take a PvP first approach which would make me happy and hell if they wanna toss in some guild v guild disputable land il get a multi month sub package, But if in the end all im looking at is a social raiding enviroment then im gonna most likely move on when GW2 arrives.
Comments
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I believe you're missing a few crucial components to accurately debate this point. Firstly, endgame is not the entire game. In fact, to many, the journey is what matters most, and if TOR can provide an enjoyable, varied, deep, and meaningful leveling experience, then I am sure it will retain a plethora of subscribers. Alas, I do believe its endgame is more than enough to satisfy the needs of the hardcore raiding segment of gaming populations. Will this game appeal to sandbox die-hards? Probably not, but that is irrelevant as that is not SWTOR's target audience.
If you want strict gameplay changes, then look elsewhere. What TOR does is provide a refined, fun, and deeply engaging experience that manages to appeal to both the hardcore and the casual masses of the gaming market. Do take note, however, that SWTOR's story is probably one of the largest innovations MMO's have seen and will probably see in a very long time.
LOL!! Factions? OMG, this is a totally new concept ... oh wait, they were in WoW also. Woops.
Must suck to blow 150 bucks on a game that will fade away in a month.
Warhammer was awesome...died quick to overlooks in on the development side but if it woulda been done right it would still be relevant today.
havnt gotten in yet but if the picture your painting me is Warhammer at launch minus the 40+ servers and stale PvE aspect im even more anxious to jump in tommorow.
And who knows what bioware will deliver on in the future as far as endgame goes, may be the same old same old or they may do something fresh, at the very least i see it being fun for at least a month which to me is worth the initial 50 bucks.
One month, you say? A pronounced declaration. Mark this thread, check back in due time. We shall see if your ill-fated "prophecy" holds absolute, eh?
The only element that would 'change' anything is the story focus and the way it delivers it. Everything else is as generic as it comes. Honestly, I doubt the way they do the story will be recieved well enough to do much to change how MMos handle story.
I went undercover as a known pirate in order to gain the trust of a crime lord. A guy approached me at a bar. He knew the real pirate and confronted me calling me an imposter. I tried to bribe him but he wanted too much money so I killed him. When my friend played this part of the story out, he was able to flirt his way out of the situation. We had a laugh about it over the phone. Stuff like that happens every 5 minutes. Its great.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
But they were in SWG first, that settles it WOW is an SWG clone...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This^^
Decent game, same ol' mechanics that every themepark MMO uses, story is a nice enjoyment to lvling and really seen it being nothing than besides that.
My money is on other MMOs coming up that will really change things up, SWTOR... eh just an extremely overhyped MMO imo but a successful one regardless. I'm just part of the crown that is sick of the repeat n rinse MMO formula, want something diffentt, something fresh, something fun and not a grind wheel.
Knowing Bioware, i know they will support the game after level cap.
More story will come, SWTOR lore is endless.
The game is great fun and playing a good controlled SWars MMO is all i need to keep going!
Not to mention that RvR is gonna be implemented aswell, so war is comming !
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopgr?feature=mhee
"The Heavens burned, the stars
cried out
And under the ashes of infinity,
Hope, scarred and bleeding,
breathed its last."
How did this effect your characters progression vs your friends? What were the rewards and penalties associated with your different choices?
just outta curiousity what mmo are you referencing here?
Gah, what a troll OP; you should know better.
How can a WoW clone change anything?
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
WoW: The two factions competeing against each other, the imposter advisor in SW, many other story elements just not a personal story.
All the MMOs had a story which I'm not gonna bother getting into in em if one bothered to read and inverst in it. SWTOR simpley makes it more interactive and people are all over the "flashness" of the presentation. Give it time an it will grow stale quick, just like some are already skipping convo scenes.
The same way an everquest clone changed everything?
I agree this isnt groundbreaking but neither was wow.
I avoided mentioning it because I don't want to start a MMO pissing contest as it will lead to that.
But my money is on TSW and GW2, but lets leave it at that, just so sick and tired of the whole "my MMO is better than yours" pissing contest.
Seriously is the OP kidding himself with that Title?? the MMO that will change everything? WoW.. just wow.. Bioware did nothing new.. granted it seemed to be a solid game... but its not a "MMO that will change everything" they threw in alot of voice acting and threw a WoW game into a Star wars Skins... nothing new this OP is a joke... just a fanboy
What we have here is basically a World of Warcraft for Star Wars fans. I think SW:TOR will be a success and will most likely maintain a solid second place in total subscriber numbers, but realistically what competition is there? Aside from WoW, Rift is pretty much it's only competition, and SW:TOR is miles ahead of that game.
I really can't think of why I would not continue playing this over World of Warcraft seeing as I'm a Star Wars fan and a fan of BioWare games, but it does have its issues that will turn a large number of players away.
WoW in space, with voice acting. Pass
Yeah but Everquest clones are easy to replicate on a pretty small budget. TOR can not be replicated. You think you will EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR see any indie dev EVERRRR have voice acting like this seriously?
Next time you will see voice acting like this when Bethesda turns Elder Scrolls into a mmorpg and shows you all what a actual rpg looks like. End game for TOR is same ice cream different flavor....dailies...raids...instances...war fronts. Stop acting like this is peoples first time on this treadmill. Some of us have been doing this for awhile.
Best thing TOR does for the genre is pull WoW fanbois away from Blizzard and weaken their pure and utter stagnation of the genre.
+1
I went undercover as a known pirate in order to gain the trust of a crime lord. A guy approached me at a bar. He knew the real pirate and confronted me calling me an imposter. I tried to bribe him but he wanted too much money so I killed him. When my friend played this part of the story out, he was able to flirt his way out of the situation. We had a laugh about it over the phone. Stuff like that happens every 5 minutes. Its great.
How did this effect your characters progression vs your friends? What were the rewards and penalties associated with your different choices?
Are you talking about if we eventually ended up in the same place? For now, I think so. Who knows, maybe that guy will come back around for him later on. I got dark side points for killing him, my friend got light side I believe.
All I know is that we did the same quests and were able to interact with them differently based on our choices. At the end of the day, we may end up in the exact same place. But the journey so far is quite different for both of us.
You can approach a quest giver and he may say "Can you help me find a lost package in the swamps?" You can just say, "Sure", and be on your way. Or you can ask how you lost it. He may say some guy mugged him and he last saw him in the swamp. You can then ask about that guy. Then ask why he doesn't just do it himself. You can tell him he's an idiot and refuse the quest. In the end, you either do it or you don't, but your own experience will vary based on what interests you and how much you want to engage in the stories and conversations.
For what it is, its a great system and a lot of fun. I think some people cannot see the forest through the trees. Bioware has delivered exactly what they said they would. And it works. People seem to rail on this game because its not something they want. Its like bashing an orange because it doesn't taste like a banana. Figure out what you like, find a game that has it. Its really that simple. Not directing this at you in particular, Sepulcher. I'm just saying in general.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
That is your opinion. To me the grind is still there and is actually worse in SWTOR because the quest variety is non-existent. You feel like you're repeating the same quests over and over again on each planet it is becomes a grind to get to the story. Unless I missed a quest somewhere there are only 2-3 escort quests in the whole game on the empire side(Balmora, tatooine, and Belsavis), I hate escort quests but even I think they could have at least tossed some more in to spice things up. I was bored of filler quests my first playthrough of the game, the second time I couldn't hit spacebar fast enough, the third time I couldn't do more than a handful in a session before trying alternative means(Warzones, Spacecombat, mob grinding).
All I can say is that more than a few people started skipping all the filler quest stories/VO because they aren't important or meaningful in any way. Once you skip that dialog the grind is just the same as WoW or any other quest based MMO where people skip the quest text. I'll agree the illusion of less grind is there for some people but by no means is it there for all.
I do think that SWTOR will help shape future games, but not they way people think. I think developers are going to look at SWTOR and see things that shouldn't be done because their cost to implement compared to their value in gameplay just isn't there. I think you will see SWTOR used as a reason to move away from the generic themepark design.
SWTOR is a great game IF you really like story, otherwise it is a mediocre MMO that lacks in more than a few departments.
Seeing as how i havnt played any 3 of the mmos in question i cant argue over which is better but i can say that from what i read GW2 aside from being a AAA polished title isnt taking any huge leaps in the genre either...I hope TSW does pan out but i could never bring myself to put money on funcom.
SWTOR seems like a fun few weeks...anything after that depends on what bioware does but in all likelyhood they wont be catoring to me but rather the majority of people who will in all likelyhood want to make swtor a social raiding experience like wow.
BUT...maybe...just maybe...theyll take a PvP first approach which would make me happy and hell if they wanna toss in some guild v guild disputable land il get a multi month sub package, But if in the end all im looking at is a social raiding enviroment then im gonna most likely move on when GW2 arrives.