Also an issue I see is people getting kicked from watching cutscenes, I heard it happened in GW 1 and it's happening in SWTOR as well.
That's part of their motivation for separating the dungeons into a Story and an Explorable mode. You only have to do the Story mode once, then after that there's 3 explorable paths that the party votes on which to do. It won't be a situation where anytime someone wants to do a dungeon to get a drop, they'll be waiting on you to watch cutscenes.
Cutscenes will also be used as part of the Personal Story, but that's solo so no issues there.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
That scares me because I see WOW as a kind of blight on the industry, and the era of WOW as a kind of dark age--a Necropotence summer, if you will--during which unrealistic expectations and market inequality has hindered innovative development and progress in the genre as a whole.
For what it's worth, even though Necropotence was played by something like 1/2 the players, White Weenie was the deck that won the world championship that year.
I miss that whole era of M:TG. I "fear" those days are gone for good. GW2 should help fill the void, nicely, though. ;P
My main fears (apart from the usual one that they won't be able to deliver on their promises) are
1) DE dynamic scaling.. Oblivion syndrome everone? When the game scales difficulty around you everything looses challenge and immersion suffers terribly. I really hope they have ways of dealing with this.
2) WvW... I hope they have the strategic meta-game right. Frankly, I hope they have some proper board wargame designer helping them out with this because WAR's open world PvP got killed because of this. I mean, you could see not a single Mythic developer played a goddamn game of Risk in their lives.
My main fears (apart from the usual one that they won't be able to deliver on their promises) are
1) DE dynamic scaling.. Oblivion syndrome everone? When the game scales difficulty around you everything looses challenge and immersion suffers terribly. I really hope they have ways of dealing with this.
I think the biggest difference is that you don't automatically scale up to meet content. If you're looking for a challenge, you'll definitely be able to find one. Even if you're level 80, there will be elite DEs that will require more skill and coordination than normal to complete.
The game does sidekick you down automatically, but you'll still be stronger than the area you're in. You won't be able to one shot something, but you will be able to handle it no problem. The way I see it is that the game is just giving you more options. In a traditional themepark, that low level content wouldn't be worth revisiting. In GW2, you can go back and team up with newbie friends in a low level DE but still have it be somewhat challenging and rewarding (though not quite on the level of your current content).
I think another big difference is that, unlike Oblivion, it's a zoned themepark. It's not like you can wander anywhere but then when a wolf attacks it always needs to be challenging. The natural desire I think will be to progress through the zones and encounter the different mobs and settings. If the game does it well, there will be a mental difference between the weak centaurs/bandits, the medium strength harpies, and the powerful undead. You'll feel like you're getting more powerful when you level and are now able to fight these tougher enemies in new zones.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
My fear generally concern if what Arena Net implement will actually do as well as intended. We've all seen the ideas of what they're trying to accomplish with the demos being available and some behind the scenes looks at the games, but we don't have enough face-time with the game to imply that everything will work amazingly or even be great because a lot of these concepts are relatively new and untested to a successful degree.
For example, not a lot of players have played the game long enough to say they particularly adore the Guild Wars 2 combat system. Not to mention, we only have the vaguest of clues how traits are going to work. They're supposed to add an entire layer of depth to the skill system and take it that extra step into build crafting that makes Guild Wars combat unique, but I'm currently relying on an assumption that it will be great because of Arena Net's track record on these types of things. But due to it being in a stage of iteration, I don't have much clue as to how well this is going to do. So my fear would be if it sucked, plain and simple. I have similar fears with things like the guild system, storytelling, crafting, and even underwater content. A lot of players have played the demos, I've watched tons of videos of them, and all of the demos have left an incredibly positive impression, but I can't figure through how well any of these things will do in the long term just because I don't have the entire game sitting in front of me. As obvious as that sounds xD
I suppose this can be said about any game ever so I didn't accomplish much, but I think Arena Net's farther into untested waters than most other companies would dare to go, especially considering that they have an entirely seperate business model as well, and I don't want them to drown!
I have my doubts but I see no reason to discuss them until I'm in beta. On topic: can't say I'm worried about anything that the TC mentioned. Having 5 slots on my action bar is okay as long as everyone has the same amount. ANet should be careful though. In other games the amount of useful skills tends to be heavily class-dependent. If action bar space is limited, obviously, this shouldn't be the case.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
my fear is well on the way to becoming a reality. what bodes well (or not) for pve does not always bode well for pvp. i see arenanet making the same mistake in guildwars2 that they made with the first guildwars with reguards to the necromancer and their profession mechanic. in pvp, they are the only profession, once again, that will have their potential severly limited when compared to the other 7 professions. if something is not dying around you, then you can pretty much forget relying on soul reaping (1st guildwars) or life force (guildwars2). every other profession can use their related mechanics (minor exception, see warrior) at-will. this is the only profession, that by simply joining pvp, is entering the game with a handicap before they even see the first (non-mirror) enemy player.
and yes, i see those skills and potential traits that try to ease the pain. but it just doesn't matter what your favorite posistion is when you're getting raped.
my fear is well on the way to becoming a reality. what bodes well (or not) for pve does not always bode well for pvp. i see arenanet making the same mistake in guildwars2 that they made with the first guildwars with reguards to the necromancer and their profession mechanic. in pvp, they are the only profession, once again, that will have their potential severly limited when compared to the other 7 professions. if something is not dying around you, then you can pretty much forget relying on soul reaping (1st guildwars) or life force (guildwars2). every other profession can use their related mechanics (minor exception, see warrior) at-will. this is the only profession, that by simply joining pvp, is entering the game with a handicap before they even see the first (non-mirror) enemy player.
and yes, i see those skills and potential traits that try to ease the pain. but it just doesn't matter what your favorite posistion is when you're getting raped.
I think you bring up an excellent point, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but I just want to add some food for thought to the discussion.
The first thing is that GW2 isn't necessarily balanced around 1 on 1 fights, it's balanced around groups fighting. They're not even including dueling in the initial release.
Another thing is that I'm reminded of League of Legends, where you can have certain characters that are weak at the beginning of the game, but become extremely strong at the end. You can't look at a toon like that like it's balanced 1v1, because chances are it's either underpowered or overpowered at any given time. But I imagine they balance that by looking at the overall results. Are people able to win half the time or so with them? Can people shut them down early half the time? Are they ever too underpowered that they can't possibly get going, or so overpowered they can't possibly be stopped?
That's how I think you might have to look at the necromancer. In group fights are they too weak initially or if no people die, and do they become too powerful if tons of people die?
Another class to look at along similar lines would be the mesmer, since it seems like a lot of their defense is based on fooling people with illusions. Are they underpowered if their enemies always guess right, and overpowered if they always guess wrong? Maybe they're balanced around people guessing right 50% of the time, just as a necromancer might be balanced around X number of deaths per minute.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
my fear is well on the way to becoming a reality. what bodes well (or not) for pve does not always bode well for pvp. i see arenanet making the same mistake in guildwars2 that they made with the first guildwars with reguards to the necromancer and their profession mechanic. in pvp, they are the only profession, once again, that will have their potential severly limited when compared to the other 7 professions. if something is not dying around you, then you can pretty much forget relying on soul reaping (1st guildwars) or life force (guildwars2). every other profession can use their related mechanics (minor exception, see warrior) at-will. this is the only profession, that by simply joining pvp, is entering the game with a handicap before they even see the first (non-mirror) enemy player.
and yes, i see those skills and potential traits that try to ease the pain. but it just doesn't matter what your favorite posistion is when you're getting raped.
I think you bring up an excellent point, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but I just want to add some food for thought to the discussion.
The first thing is that GW2 isn't necessarily balanced around 1 on 1 fights, it's balanced around groups fighting. They're not even including dueling in the initial release.
Another thing is that I'm reminded of League of Legends, where you can have certain characters that are weak at the beginning of the game, but become extremely strong at the end. You can't look at a toon like that like it's balanced 1v1, because chances are it's either underpowered or overpowered at any given time. But I imagine they balance that by looking at the overall results. Are people able to win half the time or so with them? Can people shut them down early half the time? Are they ever too underpowered that they can't possibly get going, or so overpowered they can't possibly be stopped?
That's how I think you might have to look at the necromancer. In group fights are they too weak initially or if no people die, and do they become too powerful if tons of people die?
Another class to look at along similar lines would be the mesmer, since it seems like a lot of their defense is based on fooling people with illusions. Are they underpowered if their enemies always guess right, and overpowered if they always guess wrong? Maybe they're balanced around people guessing right 50% of the time, just as a necromancer might be balanced around X number of deaths per minute.
*Highlighted talking points*
with the way the necromancer is being made for guildwars2, you have skills that you will not be able to use efficiently until you gain enough life force. the most efficient means of gaining life force revolves around things dying near you. now, if you are on your necromancer, do you really believe that im going to just let you build up your life force to use those skills to their maximum potential? even if you do get the chance to use some of those other skills or otherwise less efficient means to build up life force, you are going to be the first one to die because after all, you are a squishy and killing anyone besides you will only help you build up your life force. now there goes the group theory. but to also add, the game is being made in some modes by map designs so that you will have to eventually go off on your own to capture some points. how long do you think you will have to build up and fire off those skills in a 1 on 1 encounter?
to conclude, you may be looking at this and trying to find the right balance with life force and the frequency of deaths. sadly, that is the problem. in pve, i wouldn't care, and most might even say its fine. but in pvp, serious pvp, a necromancer is a liability simply by selecting one, so long as their mechanic rely on things dying, period. this is one traditional lore description pvp could do without. at least for pvp, almost everything the necromancer does should benefit their mechanic, and gaining life force from deaths should be removed with some, if not most, skills rebalanced to the cause. oh and btw, i believe a mesmer and an elementalist can pop off any of their skills as an opening skill. try opening with death shroud skill like life transfer on a necromancer.
with the way the necromancer is being made for guildwars2, you have skills that you will not be able to use efficiently until you gain enough life force. the most efficient means of gaining life force revolves around things dying near you. now, if you are on your necromancer, do you really believe that im going to just let you build up your life force to use those skills to their maximum potential? even if you do get the chance to use some of those other skills or otherwise less efficient means to build up life force, you are going to be the first one to die because after all, you are a squishy and killing anyone besides you will only help you build up your life force. now there goes the group theory. but to also add, the game is being made in some modes by map designs so that you will have to eventually go off on your own to capture some points. how long do you think you will have to build up and fire off those skills in a 1 on 1 encounter?
to conclude, you may be looking at this and trying to find the right balance with life force and the frequency of deaths. sadly, that is the problem. in pve, i wouldn't care, and most might even say its fine. but in pvp, serious pvp, a necromancer is a liability simply by selecting one, so long as their mechanic rely on things dying, period. this is one traditional lore description pvp could do without. at least for pvp, almost everything the necromancer does should benefit their mechanic, and gaining life force from deaths should be removed with some, if not most, skills rebalanced to the cause. oh and btw, i believe a mesmer and an elementalist can pop off any of their skills as an opening skill. try opening with death shroud skill like life transfer on a necromancer.
First of all, the necromancer isn't squishy. This isn't a holy trinity game. All classes have ways to increase their survivability regardless of their armor. In fact, back when we only knew 6 professions, the necromancer had the 2nd highest base health behind warrior. Guardian was 2nd lowest. I'm going to link to this against my better judgment, but people need to keep in mind that it's an old thread and it's a little misleading due to high base health professions getting more points put in vitality, so it's not as dramatic as it first appears, but still.
Second, I think you're blowing this way out of proportion, to be honest. All classes have 15 skills at least. What we're talking about isn't like in GW1 where Soul Reaping is driving your energy regeneration, we're talking about what is supplementing your 15 skills, all of which you can use with no energy cost anymore anytime they're off CD.
Necromancers not only get this Death Shroud which keeps them up and gives them additional life, it also gives them 4 additional skills; a direct damage, a teleport+AoE blind, a fear and a life tap. That doesn't sound too bad compared to what some of the other classes get...
A warrior gets one adrenal skill they can't use right away either.
An elementalist gets attunements, which are offset by having only 1 weapon. They get 25 total skills, but the type of effects they can do will be limited. If they choose Staff, everything is a staff skill, they can't mix and match like other professions.
A guardian gets 3 virtues, which they can switch to or sacrifice to buff allies. But on their own in our hypothetical 1v1, they're not great.(block one attack every 30 seconds, every 5th attack causes burning, or passive regen)
A thief gets stealing.
A mesmer gets to blow up their illusions for 4 different effects.
A ranger gets 2 pet attacks and the ability to swap pets.
An engineer gets some tool kit abilities based on what healing/utility skills they have selected.
It seems to me at the very least it's going to be like a single shot of adrenaline. Use an ability which gives you some Life Force passively, and that'll unlock either a teleport, fear, or life drain for you. That doesn't seem too bad, especially considering how powerful it might be once it does get going.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
with the way the necromancer is being made for guildwars2, you have skills that you will not be able to use efficiently until you gain enough life force. the most efficient means of gaining life force revolves around things dying near you. now, if you are on your necromancer, do you really believe that im going to just let you build up your life force to use those skills to their maximum potential? even if you do get the chance to use some of those other skills or otherwise less efficient means to build up life force, you are going to be the first one to die because after all, you are a squishy and killing anyone besides you will only help you build up your life force. now there goes the group theory. but to also add, the game is being made in some modes by map designs so that you will have to eventually go off on your own to capture some points. how long do you think you will have to build up and fire off those skills in a 1 on 1 encounter?
to conclude, you may be looking at this and trying to find the right balance with life force and the frequency of deaths. sadly, that is the problem. in pve, i wouldn't care, and most might even say its fine. but in pvp, serious pvp, a necromancer is a liability simply by selecting one, so long as their mechanic rely on things dying, period. this is one traditional lore description pvp could do without. at least for pvp, almost everything the necromancer does should benefit their mechanic, and gaining life force from deaths should be removed with some, if not most, skills rebalanced to the cause. oh and btw, i believe a mesmer and an elementalist can pop off any of their skills as an opening skill. try opening with death shroud skill like life transfer on a necromancer.
As mentioned above... life force is NOT soul reaping. Death is not needed to gain life force... at all. More importantly, life force only makes you stronger, it does not take anything away. Life force is not needed to use the necromancer skills save for a tiny few.
Also, necromancers are confirmed to have the highest potential in being durable. You are wrong again in stating that a necromancer is a squishy. Of the eight classes, necromancers have one of the top highest (I believe second highest, behind warrior.)
And just to be clear... you CAN start off a battle with life transfering.
All the people who hated on the game after seeing its potential and then being hypocrites 'Man, I was there when they posted the Manifesto, I was there!". They will be the ones comig from WoW/SWTOR.
"Eric Flannum once touched my sisters boob at a bar by accident, I was there!"
I'm not going to highlight parts of your post but you are very wrong on a few accounts regarding mechanics of the game.
First. The only thing that Life Force is used for is to be able to enter Death Shroud, that's all. If you can't generate life force, then the only skill that will be affected by that is Life Blast, a default damaging skill that is available only when you are in a Death Shroud form, that's it, no other skills will lose or improve their functionality or damage or utility based on amount of Life Force that you have accumulated.
Second. Life force is not gained only from thing dying near Necromancer. There are skills that allow a Necro to gain life force from the enemies just by attacking them.
Third. You are also mistaken in your belief that Necro is primarily a dps class. It is not. Its a dot and conditions oriented class. Fear, weakness, bleeds, chills, and poison are few things you can expect from a Necro on a regular basis not to mention the minions and their benefits.
i know full well what life force is used for, what builds up life force, and what uses life force. what i do not know for certain is how quick a necromancer can enter death shroud to use those skills. logic dictates that there will be a minimun time, maximun time or both depending on the amount of life force accumulated. if there is at the very least a minimun time, the logic also dictates death shroud will not last very long to take full advantage of using those skills as your life force deminishes over time while in death shroud. "Necro is primarily a dps class?" ooohhh where is it? ah that's right, i never said that anywhere in my posts. what i do believe is that my posts flew clear over the top of you head as seen with your reply. you haven't got a clue as to what im talking about, and it's not game mechanic 101, but advanced studies that you take when you start thinking about playing a game on a more serious level. and thanks for the links, but i sorry to say that i already know about them. after all, i have a lot of homework that i still have to do up until the game goes live.
My only big concern is still how the personal story will affect roleplaying. I know I've said it before, but all human nobles can't have the same best friend, and they will in the personal story, because that is how it begins. All personal stories will have this problem, in which hundreds of people on the same server will have identical things happen in their personal stories, no matter how well differentiated they are. And when actually roleplaying, this could pose problems.
I know Anet says they want to promote roleplaying, and doing things to make players invested in their characters as characters, and not just vessels for numbers, can be a great thing for the community. But when you have players doing such identical things in a specific story, roleplaying is hampered because players want to discuss these cool things they did in those stories, but when two people encounter one another and they both did the same thing, their roleplaying could become extremely awkward.
I know it is a good thing when this is the only real problem I have, but I do think it could be a very real problem. But that is a problem we risk when companies do things to make the players feel like they matter in the world, and make them invested in their characters. I would prefer they had focused on building the world and making the dynamic events compelling enough to be the drivers of the story and the lore.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
logic dictates that there will be a minimun time, maximun time or both depending on the amount of life force accumulated. if there is at the very least a minimun time, the logic also dictates death shroud will not last very long to take full advantage of using those skills as your life force deminishes over time while in death shroud.
While all things are subject to change, having played the Necro at ComicCon and PAX this year (including in PvP and in situations where we were getting our butts whipped with no deaths on the other side), nope, there is no minimum time requirement for entering death shroud. Your death shroud is full by default. It also lasts several seconds and you have time to replenish it with stealing life force, keeping it up for even longer (it might not recharge to full, but you can add a few more seconds to it via life force if nothing is dying).
At any rate, a "wait and see" attitude is best rather than assuming that your worst fears will come to pass (because the evidence you provided for your fear coming to pass have largely been addressed).
I am looking forward to GW2 , and want to play it now just like many however I do have fears. This topic is to name your top fears. Not something you hate or dislike just something that worries you. Here is my top three.
1. Not having different races in pvp. When in WoW, Warhammer, DAOC, and even RIFT you knew the face of your enemy
because they looked different then you. Not saying that you wont recognize the enemy but it will have a different feel.
2. Mounts. some of us sad because no mounts.For me it has to do with more the freedom to move quickly where ever I want to explore. They have teleports ,but what about underwater?
3.Action Bars. I think action bars allow for more customization. My fear is that with limited action bars will limit actions which looks like the thing they didnt want namely "I swing a sword"
1. not sure what you mean about different races..maybe different factions? I know there are going to be server battles that will pit 3 servers against each other. So essentially, 3 factions. They will be comprised of all the races and I'm sure there will be ways to distinguish them all.
2. Mounts have been mentioned that they might be added later. I think it could be handy to have them from getting to different places but for the most part, having fast travel is good enough for now. Also, I know Anet would do some great things with mounts if they did put them in. They did kind of have some mounts in GW1 and I think they did pretty well with those.
3. One thing I hate now that I've been playing GW1 is having tons and tons of skill bars. I like that they only have 10 skills. It's 2 more than I have now in GW1. It keeps it focused and it's not overwhelming. I would much rather have this system than the traditonal system where you have tons of skill bars and you only use about half of the skills anyway...or you are just spamming buttons mindlessly and aren't really paying attention to what you are doing. I find this system to be a lot better.
My main fears (apart from the usual one that they won't be able to deliver on their promises) are
1) DE dynamic scaling.. Oblivion syndrome everone? When the game scales difficulty around you everything looses challenge and immersion suffers terribly. I really hope they have ways of dealing with this.
Much debated in RPG circles.
Problem is you cant really make good sandbox where you roam freely without it.
But Skyrim made great improvements in that area since Oblivion
The only thing I'm genuinely concerned about right now is that my Norn Warrior might not be the first on my server to discover the Ram's Head Hammer recipe and be the only one running around with one for at least a couple hours.
Charr: Outta my way. Human: What's your problem? Charr: Your thin skin.
i know full well what life force is used for, what builds up life force, and what uses life force. what i do not know for certain is how quick a necromancer can enter death shroud to use those skills. logic dictates that there will be a minimun time, maximun time or both depending on the amount of life force accumulated. if there is at the very least a minimun time, the logic also dictates death shroud will not last very long to take full advantage of using those skills as your life force deminishes over time while in death shroud. "Necro is primarily a dps class?" ooohhh where is it? ah that's right, i never said that anywhere in my posts. what i do believe is that my posts flew clear over the top of you head as seen with your reply. you haven't got a clue as to what im talking about, and it's not game mechanic 101, but advanced studies that you take when you start thinking about playing a game on a more serious level. and thanks for the links, but i sorry to say that i already know about them. after all, i have a lot of homework that i still have to do up until the game goes live.
Well if you were as knowledgeable as you say you are then you would at least know how the Death Shroud currently functions, in conjunction with Life Force. And instead of trying to explain it to you, why not watch this moment in this PvP battle and see what the Necro was able to do, with only a sliver of Life Force.
Comments
That's part of their motivation for separating the dungeons into a Story and an Explorable mode. You only have to do the Story mode once, then after that there's 3 explorable paths that the party votes on which to do. It won't be a situation where anytime someone wants to do a dungeon to get a drop, they'll be waiting on you to watch cutscenes.
Here's a great overview of the dungeons and what they were trying to do with them. http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/into-the-dungeons/
Cutscenes will also be used as part of the Personal Story, but that's solo so no issues there.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
My main fear is that it is too much of twitch based game, making it look and act like arcade and single player games.
A lesser fear is idiotically oversized weapons.
^This^, AND fear of the possibility of a random thunderstorm knocking out my power, once I've got my copy of GW2. Alas...I don't yet own a UPS.
I miss that whole era of M:TG. I "fear" those days are gone for good. GW2 should help fill the void, nicely, though. ;P
My main fears (apart from the usual one that they won't be able to deliver on their promises) are
1) DE dynamic scaling.. Oblivion syndrome everone? When the game scales difficulty around you everything looses challenge and immersion suffers terribly. I really hope they have ways of dealing with this.
2) WvW... I hope they have the strategic meta-game right. Frankly, I hope they have some proper board wargame designer helping them out with this because WAR's open world PvP got killed because of this. I mean, you could see not a single Mythic developer played a goddamn game of Risk in their lives.
I think the biggest difference is that you don't automatically scale up to meet content. If you're looking for a challenge, you'll definitely be able to find one. Even if you're level 80, there will be elite DEs that will require more skill and coordination than normal to complete.
The game does sidekick you down automatically, but you'll still be stronger than the area you're in. You won't be able to one shot something, but you will be able to handle it no problem. The way I see it is that the game is just giving you more options. In a traditional themepark, that low level content wouldn't be worth revisiting. In GW2, you can go back and team up with newbie friends in a low level DE but still have it be somewhat challenging and rewarding (though not quite on the level of your current content).
I think another big difference is that, unlike Oblivion, it's a zoned themepark. It's not like you can wander anywhere but then when a wolf attacks it always needs to be challenging. The natural desire I think will be to progress through the zones and encounter the different mobs and settings. If the game does it well, there will be a mental difference between the weak centaurs/bandits, the medium strength harpies, and the powerful undead. You'll feel like you're getting more powerful when you level and are now able to fight these tougher enemies in new zones.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
My fear generally concern if what Arena Net implement will actually do as well as intended. We've all seen the ideas of what they're trying to accomplish with the demos being available and some behind the scenes looks at the games, but we don't have enough face-time with the game to imply that everything will work amazingly or even be great because a lot of these concepts are relatively new and untested to a successful degree.
For example, not a lot of players have played the game long enough to say they particularly adore the Guild Wars 2 combat system. Not to mention, we only have the vaguest of clues how traits are going to work. They're supposed to add an entire layer of depth to the skill system and take it that extra step into build crafting that makes Guild Wars combat unique, but I'm currently relying on an assumption that it will be great because of Arena Net's track record on these types of things. But due to it being in a stage of iteration, I don't have much clue as to how well this is going to do. So my fear would be if it sucked, plain and simple. I have similar fears with things like the guild system, storytelling, crafting, and even underwater content. A lot of players have played the demos, I've watched tons of videos of them, and all of the demos have left an incredibly positive impression, but I can't figure through how well any of these things will do in the long term just because I don't have the entire game sitting in front of me. As obvious as that sounds xD
I suppose this can be said about any game ever so I didn't accomplish much, but I think Arena Net's farther into untested waters than most other companies would dare to go, especially considering that they have an entirely seperate business model as well, and I don't want them to drown!
I have my doubts but I see no reason to discuss them until I'm in beta. On topic: can't say I'm worried about anything that the TC mentioned. Having 5 slots on my action bar is okay as long as everyone has the same amount.
ANet should be careful though. In other games the amount of useful skills tends to be heavily class-dependent. If action bar space is limited, obviously, this shouldn't be the case.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
my fear is well on the way to becoming a reality. what bodes well (or not) for pve does not always bode well for pvp. i see arenanet making the same mistake in guildwars2 that they made with the first guildwars with reguards to the necromancer and their profession mechanic. in pvp, they are the only profession, once again, that will have their potential severly limited when compared to the other 7 professions. if something is not dying around you, then you can pretty much forget relying on soul reaping (1st guildwars) or life force (guildwars2). every other profession can use their related mechanics (minor exception, see warrior) at-will. this is the only profession, that by simply joining pvp, is entering the game with a handicap before they even see the first (non-mirror) enemy player.
and yes, i see those skills and potential traits that try to ease the pain. but it just doesn't matter what your favorite posistion is when you're getting raped.
I think you bring up an excellent point, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but I just want to add some food for thought to the discussion.
The first thing is that GW2 isn't necessarily balanced around 1 on 1 fights, it's balanced around groups fighting. They're not even including dueling in the initial release.
Another thing is that I'm reminded of League of Legends, where you can have certain characters that are weak at the beginning of the game, but become extremely strong at the end. You can't look at a toon like that like it's balanced 1v1, because chances are it's either underpowered or overpowered at any given time. But I imagine they balance that by looking at the overall results. Are people able to win half the time or so with them? Can people shut them down early half the time? Are they ever too underpowered that they can't possibly get going, or so overpowered they can't possibly be stopped?
That's how I think you might have to look at the necromancer. In group fights are they too weak initially or if no people die, and do they become too powerful if tons of people die?
Another class to look at along similar lines would be the mesmer, since it seems like a lot of their defense is based on fooling people with illusions. Are they underpowered if their enemies always guess right, and overpowered if they always guess wrong? Maybe they're balanced around people guessing right 50% of the time, just as a necromancer might be balanced around X number of deaths per minute.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
*Highlighted talking points*
with the way the necromancer is being made for guildwars2, you have skills that you will not be able to use efficiently until you gain enough life force. the most efficient means of gaining life force revolves around things dying near you. now, if you are on your necromancer, do you really believe that im going to just let you build up your life force to use those skills to their maximum potential? even if you do get the chance to use some of those other skills or otherwise less efficient means to build up life force, you are going to be the first one to die because after all, you are a squishy and killing anyone besides you will only help you build up your life force. now there goes the group theory. but to also add, the game is being made in some modes by map designs so that you will have to eventually go off on your own to capture some points. how long do you think you will have to build up and fire off those skills in a 1 on 1 encounter?
to conclude, you may be looking at this and trying to find the right balance with life force and the frequency of deaths. sadly, that is the problem. in pve, i wouldn't care, and most might even say its fine. but in pvp, serious pvp, a necromancer is a liability simply by selecting one, so long as their mechanic rely on things dying, period. this is one traditional lore description pvp could do without. at least for pvp, almost everything the necromancer does should benefit their mechanic, and gaining life force from deaths should be removed with some, if not most, skills rebalanced to the cause. oh and btw, i believe a mesmer and an elementalist can pop off any of their skills as an opening skill. try opening with death shroud skill like life transfer on a necromancer.
First of all, the necromancer isn't squishy. This isn't a holy trinity game. All classes have ways to increase their survivability regardless of their armor. In fact, back when we only knew 6 professions, the necromancer had the 2nd highest base health behind warrior. Guardian was 2nd lowest. I'm going to link to this against my better judgment, but people need to keep in mind that it's an old thread and it's a little misleading due to high base health professions getting more points put in vitality, so it's not as dramatic as it first appears, but still.
Second, I think you're blowing this way out of proportion, to be honest. All classes have 15 skills at least. What we're talking about isn't like in GW1 where Soul Reaping is driving your energy regeneration, we're talking about what is supplementing your 15 skills, all of which you can use with no energy cost anymore anytime they're off CD.
Necromancers not only get this Death Shroud which keeps them up and gives them additional life, it also gives them 4 additional skills; a direct damage, a teleport+AoE blind, a fear and a life tap. That doesn't sound too bad compared to what some of the other classes get...
A warrior gets one adrenal skill they can't use right away either.
An elementalist gets attunements, which are offset by having only 1 weapon. They get 25 total skills, but the type of effects they can do will be limited. If they choose Staff, everything is a staff skill, they can't mix and match like other professions.
A guardian gets 3 virtues, which they can switch to or sacrifice to buff allies. But on their own in our hypothetical 1v1, they're not great.(block one attack every 30 seconds, every 5th attack causes burning, or passive regen)
A thief gets stealing.
A mesmer gets to blow up their illusions for 4 different effects.
A ranger gets 2 pet attacks and the ability to swap pets.
An engineer gets some tool kit abilities based on what healing/utility skills they have selected.
It seems to me at the very least it's going to be like a single shot of adrenaline. Use an ability which gives you some Life Force passively, and that'll unlock either a teleport, fear, or life drain for you. That doesn't seem too bad, especially considering how powerful it might be once it does get going.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
As mentioned above... life force is NOT soul reaping. Death is not needed to gain life force... at all. More importantly, life force only makes you stronger, it does not take anything away. Life force is not needed to use the necromancer skills save for a tiny few.
Also, necromancers are confirmed to have the highest potential in being durable. You are wrong again in stating that a necromancer is a squishy. Of the eight classes, necromancers have one of the top highest (I believe second highest, behind warrior.)
And just to be clear... you CAN start off a battle with life transfering.
No fears..none...it will be awesome.
My only fear?
All the people who hated on the game after seeing its potential and then being hypocrites 'Man, I was there when they posted the Manifesto, I was there!". They will be the ones comig from WoW/SWTOR.
"Eric Flannum once touched my sisters boob at a bar by accident, I was there!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_j8BG-ybng
TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!
Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!
Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!
will make this quick, trying to get to bed.
i know full well what life force is used for, what builds up life force, and what uses life force. what i do not know for certain is how quick a necromancer can enter death shroud to use those skills. logic dictates that there will be a minimun time, maximun time or both depending on the amount of life force accumulated. if there is at the very least a minimun time, the logic also dictates death shroud will not last very long to take full advantage of using those skills as your life force deminishes over time while in death shroud. "Necro is primarily a dps class?" ooohhh where is it? ah that's right, i never said that anywhere in my posts. what i do believe is that my posts flew clear over the top of you head as seen with your reply. you haven't got a clue as to what im talking about, and it's not game mechanic 101, but advanced studies that you take when you start thinking about playing a game on a more serious level. and thanks for the links, but i sorry to say that i already know about them. after all, i have a lot of homework that i still have to do up until the game goes live.
My only big concern is still how the personal story will affect roleplaying. I know I've said it before, but all human nobles can't have the same best friend, and they will in the personal story, because that is how it begins. All personal stories will have this problem, in which hundreds of people on the same server will have identical things happen in their personal stories, no matter how well differentiated they are. And when actually roleplaying, this could pose problems.
I know Anet says they want to promote roleplaying, and doing things to make players invested in their characters as characters, and not just vessels for numbers, can be a great thing for the community. But when you have players doing such identical things in a specific story, roleplaying is hampered because players want to discuss these cool things they did in those stories, but when two people encounter one another and they both did the same thing, their roleplaying could become extremely awkward.
I know it is a good thing when this is the only real problem I have, but I do think it could be a very real problem. But that is a problem we risk when companies do things to make the players feel like they matter in the world, and make them invested in their characters. I would prefer they had focused on building the world and making the dynamic events compelling enough to be the drivers of the story and the lore.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
1. not sure what you mean about different races..maybe different factions? I know there are going to be server battles that will pit 3 servers against each other. So essentially, 3 factions. They will be comprised of all the races and I'm sure there will be ways to distinguish them all.
2. Mounts have been mentioned that they might be added later. I think it could be handy to have them from getting to different places but for the most part, having fast travel is good enough for now. Also, I know Anet would do some great things with mounts if they did put them in. They did kind of have some mounts in GW1 and I think they did pretty well with those.
3. One thing I hate now that I've been playing GW1 is having tons and tons of skill bars. I like that they only have 10 skills. It's 2 more than I have now in GW1. It keeps it focused and it's not overwhelming. I would much rather have this system than the traditonal system where you have tons of skill bars and you only use about half of the skills anyway...or you are just spamming buttons mindlessly and aren't really paying attention to what you are doing. I find this system to be a lot better.
Do you want some cheese with that whine?
Both my fears are WvWvW related.
1) That people are going to insist on calling it WvWvW instead of RvR. RvR is so much easier to say.
2) That for one reason or another WvWvW wont be the replacement for DAOC's RvR that ive been waiting for.
WvWvW or RvR, it's still easier to say then SWTOR
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Much debated in RPG circles.
Problem is you cant really make good sandbox where you roam freely without it.
But Skyrim made great improvements in that area since Oblivion
I believe its pronounced "wow clone" but thats a topic for another thread
The only thing I'm genuinely concerned about right now is that my Norn Warrior might not be the first on my server to discover the Ram's Head Hammer recipe and be the only one running around with one for at least a couple hours.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
Well if you were as knowledgeable as you say you are then you would at least know how the Death Shroud currently functions, in conjunction with Life Force. And instead of trying to explain it to you, why not watch this moment in this PvP battle and see what the Necro was able to do, with only a sliver of Life Force.