You 'could' create whatever you wanted, but most souls didnt work very well together, and the ones that did had a FOTM build that was number crunched to be the optimal build. If you didnt have it, you were sub par. All the skills looked the same, you never really felt like you were that class. You were basically one of 4 classes playing one of 3 roles.
Not to mention the fact that you could just shove all your abilities into one supermacro and spam it for optimal effect. I had two macros, one for single target dps and one for aoe dps, what a joke. Give me well defined and fun classes any day.
not true at all just look at taugrims or bleeds pvp videos and you can see how non FOTM builds can kick ass in pvp in that game.. also macros is a whole differn't argument and has nothing to do with how great the role system was in rift
Yep, I will corroborate this.
I had a mage, and don't get me wrong, there are popular builds (of course). But there were a bunch of fringe builds that worked very well too. I remember I tried this guy's warlock/archon build in PvP and it was DESTROYING, when everyone else thought that Pyro was OP.
In my experience, there were a lot of builds in Rift that could be really effective, and people were finding new ones all the time around release.
You 'could' create whatever you wanted, but most souls didnt work very well together, and the ones that did had a FOTM build that was number crunched to be the optimal build. If you didnt have it, you were sub par. All the skills looked the same, you never really felt like you were that class. You were basically one of 4 classes playing one of 3 roles.
Not to mention the fact that you could just shove all your abilities into one supermacro and spam it for optimal effect. I had two macros, one for single target dps and one for aoe dps, what a joke. Give me well defined and fun classes any day.
For starters, you do realize the only reason this isn't possible in TOR is because they both A) don't have macros, and don't allow you to switch specs yet.
That said, I don't see how you can call Rift's soul system cheap and meaningless. Not only did it allow you to switch between PvE and PvP specs, but it also allowed you to to change the way your class played (AoE, single target, heals, damage, protection, etc.). On top of this, there were multiple builds that were often acceptable for each class. (mage had zoomancer / pyromancer / necrobomb / stormcaller / etc.) (rogue had sabo builds, nightblade builds, assassination builds, bard builds etc.)
I also don't see how you can both complain about it being 'too simple' and at the same time crave 'well defined' classes. The only thing preventing TOR's classes from feeling the same is lack of a macro system. There are already optimized builds, and instead of having nearly a dozen roles per class, you have 3 (1 of which is shared). From what I've seen, each class is already reduced to 2, sometimes 3 optimal builds. Can't get much simpler than that w/ out removing talent trees.
You 'could' create whatever you wanted, but most souls didnt work very well together, and the ones that did had a FOTM build that was number crunched to be the optimal build. If you didnt have it, you were sub par. All the skills looked the same, you never really felt like you were that class. You were basically one of 4 classes playing one of 3 roles.
Not to mention the fact that you could just shove all your abilities into one supermacro and spam it for optimal effect. I had two macros, one for single target dps and one for aoe dps, what a joke. Give me well defined and fun classes any day.
not true at all just look at taugrims or bleeds pvp videos and you can see how non FOTM builds can kick ass in pvp in that game.. also macros is a whole differn't argument and has nothing to do with how great the role system was in rift
Yep, I will corroborate this.
I had a mage, and don't get me wrong, there are popular builds (of course). But there were a bunch of fringe builds that worked very well too. I remember I tried this guy's warlock/archon build in PvP and it was DESTROYING, when everyone else thought that Pyro was OP.
In my experience, there were a lot of builds in Rift that could be really effective, and people were finding new ones all the time around release.
not only release try 6 months after release I was always finding new builds months after months and writing guides in the rift forums.. this one feature actually kept me around for probably several months longer than I normally would have stayed.. so saying it was junk is just insane to me
I had a mage, and don't get me wrong, there are popular builds (of course). But there were a bunch of fringe builds that worked very well too. I remember I tried this guy's warlock/archon build in PvP and it was DESTROYING, when everyone else thought that Pyro was OP.
In my experience, there were a lot of builds in Rift that could be really effective, and people were finding new ones all the time around release.
Seconded. I tried a Domination / Lock / archon build in PvP, and would pretty much destroy everything, and everyone thought the domination spec was useless.
I also raided with a zoomancer spec before people realized it was any good, and again i was told it sounded stupid, until i started topping the DPS charts.
You 'could' create whatever you wanted, but most souls didnt work very well together, and the ones that did had a FOTM build that was number crunched to be the optimal build. If you didnt have it, you were sub par. All the skills looked the same, you never really felt like you were that class. You were basically one of 4 classes playing one of 3 roles.
Not to mention the fact that you could just shove all your abilities into one supermacro and spam it for optimal effect. I had two macros, one for single target dps and one for aoe dps, what a joke. Give me well defined and fun classes any day.
For starters, you do realize the only reason this isn't possible in TOR is because they both A) don't have macros, and don't allow you to switch specs yet.
That said, I don't see how you can call Rift's soul system cheap and meaningless. Not only did it allow you to switch between PvE and PvP specs, but it also allowed you to to change the way your class played (AoE, single target, heals, damage, protection, etc.). On top of this, there were multiple builds that were often acceptable for each class. (mage had zoomancer / pyromancer / necrobomb / stormcaller / etc.) (rogue had sabo builds, nightblade builds, assassination builds, bard builds etc.)
I also don't see how you can both complain about it being 'too simple' and at the same time crave 'well defined' classes. The only thing preventing TOR's classes from feeling the same is lack of a macro system. There are already optimized builds, and instead of having nearly a dozen roles per class, you have 3 (1 of which is shared). From what I've seen, each class is already reduced to 2, sometimes 3 optimal builds. Can't get much simpler than that w/ out removing talent trees.
I suspect that those who reached level 50 in less that a week did more them gloss over the story. In time the more exposure to these flaws that we found will begin to annoy them as well. Not being able to paste an item name to the GTN to search for an item. My problem with the UI is not customization it's usablity. The UI is bad. When I use the UI it screams to me "We have never played a game with this feature and have no idea what this feature should do. We don't care if this is not usefull to you or makes the game unenjoyable, here it is take it and live with it, we just don't care about you the customer. Oh by the way we know this is a piece of junk and we intend to fix it, just not before we make you buy it and use it as is." This was a "Speed Bump".
I am a casual gamer, I get more fun in a game crafting and equiping my characters and their companions. When I first read the description of the crafting system, I fealt that the companion skill system would detach the player from any emotional connection to the crafting. Later I decided that companion crafting was the same as factory crafting in SWG. I now know that it is not. Being limited to 5 items per run instead of the "Craft All" system is a "Speed Bump". I spent 2 days and 9,000 credits leveling Underworld Trading to tier 2 missions (17-24), This was a "Speed Bump" that wasn't fun or heroic.
Synthweaving had a hole in the recipies, no light armour for skill levels 100 & 110. This was a "Speed Bump". I am calling them "Speed Bumps", other may say snags or barbs. What it comes down to are flaws that when exposed to players for a length of time become deal breakers. There are other flaws that I experienced. There used to be items at these levels in beta, but they were taken out for release. Probably from the feed back they got, quest rewards or PvP items were undervalued becuase of crafted items. I don't know whay this was done
I wasn't going to mention this becuase so many of you will find this petty or disagree with me that it is an exploit. I plaid Hutt Ball three time each time my team won the match 1-0. Here is what I feel is the exploit. Neither team tried to score. The way Hutt Ball is being played, a ball handler take the ball to the side lines drawing the nubie players into a killing field, where they are taken out by the respective advanced players. PvP is being manipulated and controlled, kills are valued over playing the game.I suspect a single guild with two premade teams joins a match, each premade on the oposite team, they then work togther to contrrol the ball and heard the non-guild team members into a kill-zone. I didn't want to mention this and pass it on to the population. But as more people see it, they would eventually begin talking about it. There by becomeing common knowledge.
I have even more faults than this, but I will end it here. For me thses things just added up and became deal breakers. What does this game say to me? "We don't know the right thing to do when it comes to making a game like this. Eventully some one will tell us the right way, and we may even implement it. But for now we can care less." I could tolerate SWG NGE, and I played it and enjoyed it. The rest of you seem to enjoy this. For me this is worse than the NGE ever was.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
You 'could' create whatever you wanted, but most souls didnt work very well together, and the ones that did had a FOTM build that was number crunched to be the optimal build. If you didnt have it, you were sub par. All the skills looked the same, you never really felt like you were that class. You were basically one of 4 classes playing one of 3 roles.
Not to mention the fact that you could just shove all your abilities into one supermacro and spam it for optimal effect. I had two macros, one for single target dps and one for aoe dps, what a joke. Give me well defined and fun classes any day.
For starters, you do realize the only reason this isn't possible in TOR is because they both A) don't have macros, and don't allow you to switch specs yet.
That said, I don't see how you can call Rift's soul system cheap and meaningless. Not only did it allow you to switch between PvE and PvP specs, but it also allowed you to to change the way your class played (AoE, single target, heals, damage, protection, etc.). On top of this, there were multiple builds that were often acceptable for each class. (mage had zoomancer / pyromancer / necrobomb / stormcaller / etc.) (rogue had sabo builds, nightblade builds, assassination builds, bard builds etc.)
I also don't see how you can both complain about it being 'too simple' and at the same time crave 'well defined' classes. The only thing preventing TOR's classes from feeling the same is lack of a macro system. There are already optimized builds, and instead of having nearly a dozen roles per class, you have 3 (1 of which is shared). From what I've seen, each class is already reduced to 2, sometimes 3 optimal builds. Can't get much simpler than that w/ out removing talent trees.
Actually even if they had macros, which they are putting in, it wouldnt work as 1 button macros. You cant simply list your spells / combat skills in order of damage priority and click the one button, it wouldnt work.
Lots of skills work on triggers from the talents and its not worth using the skill unless the talent has triggered. Also skill cooldowns dont match their duration or priority.
Using the sorceror in madness as an example you use force lightning as a filler, its always up. So that could go in a macro as the bottom skill.
You should apply affliction on the mob and keep it up, even though you could actually spam this, its not efficient to do so, youll want to keep it refreshed. So that ability cant go in a macro.
You have to apply crushing darkness on cooldown, but you dont want to do it unless you have triggered the instant cast from channeling force lightning. Otherwise it will lower your DPS, so that cant go in a macro.
You cast lightning strike every time your instant cast proc triggers when crushing darkness is on cooldown. Also couldnt go in a macro.
Final ability is a powerful DoT that has an 18 second duration and 9 second recast, so you should keep it up on two things at once. Also wouldnt work in a macro.
Then theres positional AoEs that also couldnt go in a macro.
Pretty much every class I have played has had reasons why a super macro just wouldnt work. You have to pay attention to your skills and power reserves.
So unless they implement some sort of smart macro (read: bot) that can only cast things when the instant cast proc has triggered, or only reapply DoTs when needed, its not really going to work like RIFT where you could just shove everything into one supermacro where you order your skills based on damage.
Each of the advanced classes in SWTOR feels more unique and interesting than the whole clusterfuck of souls in Rift.
I have noticed that the people who claim that SWTOR is either a bad game, or are quitting have only played a maximum of one day playing time.
What is this due too? Impatience? Are they too spoiled with WoW?
Is there something that I am missing here?
I am just curious, as I reached 50 yesterday and will be playing the game after the free month.
It's easy... Most of those people played beta and didn't enjoy. They came back for live and still felt it was the same way so why bother? A game should be enjoyable and NOT feel like a chore.
On a practical level, dual specs also make it MUCH easier to find a healer for dungeons and crap. Most healers don't like being specced in heal while they solo because it's inefficient, and respeccing can be expensive.
I like dual spec, because I like having the option to play two roles in end game dungeons.
But due to companions in this game you can level pretty easy as a healer spec, just use a DPS companion and heal it. Thats why theres so many types of companion, they are there to augment whatever your current role is weak in.
This is true, but I like switching specs just for the fun of playing in a different style.
I have noticed that the people who claim that SWTOR is either a bad game, or are quitting have only played a maximum of one day playing time.
What is this due too? Impatience? Are they too spoiled with WoW?
Is there something that I am missing here?
I am just curious, as I reached 50 yesterday and will be playing the game after the free month.
Perhaps... Could it be... that they just don't like the damn game? Seriously, if you don't like fish, continuing to eat fish isn't going to make you like it.
I have noticed that the people who claim that SWTOR is either a bad game, or are quitting have only played a maximum of one day playing time.
What is this due too? Impatience? Are they too spoiled with WoW?
Is there something that I am missing here?
I am just curious, as I reached 50 yesterday and will be playing the game after the free month.
Perhaps... Could it be... that they just don't like the damn game? Seriously, if you don't like fish, continuing to eat fish isn't going to make you like it.
Quitting the game without even finishing the prologue is like leaving the resteraunt before the fish is even served because the appetizers suck.
Comments
Yep, I will corroborate this.
I had a mage, and don't get me wrong, there are popular builds (of course). But there were a bunch of fringe builds that worked very well too. I remember I tried this guy's warlock/archon build in PvP and it was DESTROYING, when everyone else thought that Pyro was OP.
In my experience, there were a lot of builds in Rift that could be really effective, and people were finding new ones all the time around release.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
For starters, you do realize the only reason this isn't possible in TOR is because they both A) don't have macros, and
don't allow you to switch specs yet.
That said, I don't see how you can call Rift's soul system cheap and meaningless. Not only did it allow you to switch between PvE and PvP specs, but it also allowed you to to change the way your class played (AoE, single target, heals, damage, protection, etc.). On top of this, there were multiple builds that were often acceptable for each class. (mage had zoomancer / pyromancer / necrobomb / stormcaller / etc.) (rogue had sabo builds, nightblade builds, assassination builds, bard builds etc.)
I also don't see how you can both complain about it being 'too simple' and at the same time crave 'well defined' classes. The only thing preventing TOR's classes from feeling the same is lack of a macro system. There are already optimized builds, and instead of having nearly a dozen roles per class, you have 3 (1 of which is shared). From what I've seen, each class is already reduced to 2, sometimes 3 optimal builds. Can't get much simpler than that w/ out removing talent trees.
not only release try 6 months after release I was always finding new builds months after months and writing guides in the rift forums.. this one feature actually kept me around for probably several months longer than I normally would have stayed.. so saying it was junk is just insane to me
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Seconded. I tried a Domination / Lock / archon build in PvP, and would pretty much destroy everything, and everyone thought the domination spec was useless.
I also raided with a zoomancer spec before people realized it was any good, and again i was told it sounded stupid, until i started topping the DPS charts.
thank you good post +1
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I suspect that those who reached level 50 in less that a week did more them gloss over the story. In time the more exposure to these flaws that we found will begin to annoy them as well. Not being able to paste an item name to the GTN to search for an item. My problem with the UI is not customization it's usablity. The UI is bad. When I use the UI it screams to me "We have never played a game with this feature and have no idea what this feature should do. We don't care if this is not usefull to you or makes the game unenjoyable, here it is take it and live with it, we just don't care about you the customer. Oh by the way we know this is a piece of junk and we intend to fix it, just not before we make you buy it and use it as is." This was a "Speed Bump".
I am a casual gamer, I get more fun in a game crafting and equiping my characters and their companions. When I first read the description of the crafting system, I fealt that the companion skill system would detach the player from any emotional connection to the crafting. Later I decided that companion crafting was the same as factory crafting in SWG. I now know that it is not. Being limited to 5 items per run instead of the "Craft All" system is a "Speed Bump". I spent 2 days and 9,000 credits leveling Underworld Trading to tier 2 missions (17-24), This was a "Speed Bump" that wasn't fun or heroic.
Synthweaving had a hole in the recipies, no light armour for skill levels 100 & 110. This was a "Speed Bump". I am calling them "Speed Bumps", other may say snags or barbs. What it comes down to are flaws that when exposed to players for a length of time become deal breakers. There are other flaws that I experienced. There used to be items at these levels in beta, but they were taken out for release. Probably from the feed back they got, quest rewards or PvP items were undervalued becuase of crafted items. I don't know whay this was done
I wasn't going to mention this becuase so many of you will find this petty or disagree with me that it is an exploit. I plaid Hutt Ball three time each time my team won the match 1-0. Here is what I feel is the exploit. Neither team tried to score. The way Hutt Ball is being played, a ball handler take the ball to the side lines drawing the nubie players into a killing field, where they are taken out by the respective advanced players. PvP is being manipulated and controlled, kills are valued over playing the game.I suspect a single guild with two premade teams joins a match, each premade on the oposite team, they then work togther to contrrol the ball and heard the non-guild team members into a kill-zone. I didn't want to mention this and pass it on to the population. But as more people see it, they would eventually begin talking about it. There by becomeing common knowledge.
I have even more faults than this, but I will end it here. For me thses things just added up and became deal breakers. What does this game say to me? "We don't know the right thing to do when it comes to making a game like this. Eventully some one will tell us the right way, and we may even implement it. But for now we can care less." I could tolerate SWG NGE, and I played it and enjoyed it. The rest of you seem to enjoy this. For me this is worse than the NGE ever was.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Actually even if they had macros, which they are putting in, it wouldnt work as 1 button macros. You cant simply list your spells / combat skills in order of damage priority and click the one button, it wouldnt work.
Lots of skills work on triggers from the talents and its not worth using the skill unless the talent has triggered. Also skill cooldowns dont match their duration or priority.
Using the sorceror in madness as an example you use force lightning as a filler, its always up. So that could go in a macro as the bottom skill.
You should apply affliction on the mob and keep it up, even though you could actually spam this, its not efficient to do so, youll want to keep it refreshed. So that ability cant go in a macro.
You have to apply crushing darkness on cooldown, but you dont want to do it unless you have triggered the instant cast from channeling force lightning. Otherwise it will lower your DPS, so that cant go in a macro.
You cast lightning strike every time your instant cast proc triggers when crushing darkness is on cooldown. Also couldnt go in a macro.
Final ability is a powerful DoT that has an 18 second duration and 9 second recast, so you should keep it up on two things at once. Also wouldnt work in a macro.
Then theres positional AoEs that also couldnt go in a macro.
Pretty much every class I have played has had reasons why a super macro just wouldnt work. You have to pay attention to your skills and power reserves.
So unless they implement some sort of smart macro (read: bot) that can only cast things when the instant cast proc has triggered, or only reapply DoTs when needed, its not really going to work like RIFT where you could just shove everything into one supermacro where you order your skills based on damage.
Each of the advanced classes in SWTOR feels more unique and interesting than the whole clusterfuck of souls in Rift.
It's easy... Most of those people played beta and didn't enjoy. They came back for live and still felt it was the same way so why bother? A game should be enjoyable and NOT feel like a chore.
That's what alting's for, no?
Perhaps... Could it be... that they just don't like the damn game? Seriously, if you don't like fish, continuing to eat fish isn't going to make you like it.
Quitting the game without even finishing the prologue is like leaving the resteraunt before the fish is even served because the appetizers suck.