There aren t that many disappointed, it s just that this is the biggest game to come along in many many years. In game , I rarely ever see anyone say the game is bad, as a matter of fact they re all praising it. Haters are just being very vocal because they have nothing to stand on now. The game is good, it s as simple as that, and it will only get better.
SWTOR has a good foundation. Is it a well made game - some would argue with you on that. It is missing many functions and features we are accustomed to now and find in even browser based games like custom UI. Eventually TOR will be a game worth playing. As for me I am waiting. When they fix the things I am concerned with then I might give it a shot. Depends on many factors...like if ArcheAge comes to the US. If that game comes to the US I'll be playing it.
you can move the UI around by activating Operations frames, and even change the size of your party members' health bars. To do so go to Options > User Interface > Operations Frames > Use Operations Frames as Party Frames
At this point its pretty clear that it is exactly this kind of thinking line that piss off people, just gather the 2 or 3 most common critics on the web if you don't believe me. Usually people are simple. You can always be a smart ass with them, but it won't work for a long time. When people say "its good", then it mean that it is really good. It does not mean "it's not bad" if you know what i mean. In the OP quote, they call good design what is not risky financially, those designs are good for them. But nobody give a damn about them right, they don't play those games, they don't pay for those games either. They should rather try to make good design for the players, maybe that would help them, maybe?
I'm not even sure who are the 'so many people'. A lot of the negative posts I read come from those who stated they have never played the game or will. I find it hard to take them seriously. I only recently caved and got in as I wasn't overly impressed while in beta but quite a few of my friends gave it a thumbs up and said I should try it again. So I did and I have to admit I am enjoying it more than I expected. It actually made me enjoy and care about my character. That may not mean much to some but as an rper it meant quite a bit to me. Plus I am enjoying being a smuggler/gunslinger and sitting in the middle of blaster fire.
So to each his own. You can not please everyone. No game will. A game can come out and be this mysterious next-gen game folks clamor for and you know what? There will be a group that talk that game too. It never ends. It's one repetitive cycle. So all I can say is I hope others find what they are looking for but the foundations of ToR have proven enough to gain my interest in gaming where so many have failed these past few years.
Well said!
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
There's no time for great design. MMOs are lucky to get to the "good" stage by launch and try to morph into "great" via patches. That's because this market (publishers, stock holders and impatient consumers) rushes products out the door in an effort to capture some of WoW's sub base. They want the kind of revenue WoW has generated too, but they don't "get it".
Rubbish there is always time for great design sadly not many are capable of this these days , and to hide the fact behind stupid deliverables is something totally different.
Financial Models , capability to deliver and the type of developer all play a part here in being able to deliver a final product.
But great design comes from great minds and should not be under estimated; Subsequent muppets who then undermine the development and implementation is something else not the design.
The few naysayers here regarding SWTOR are no where near representative of the majority.....
A game is currnetly being developed called "COS" the design is unbelievable ; 100% intact and will beat SWTOR hands down now sadlty the publishers have the opportunity to ruin it , i would hope this is not the case. But design by great mind comes along rarely, the MMO genre will only ever be fixed if they develop game pre WoW. As this is the stage where the game element was pretty much removed and replaced by mindless whack a mole and the "IQ of one required rule was applied".
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
People are disappointed cause even though Bioware quite openly admitted (though sometimes 'colorized' facts a bit) that Swtor will be pure themepark game that repeats well known WoW-like game concept, those people still foolishly hoped for something diffrent.
So Swtor is surely well executed game, that many people will have fun with (good for them!), there is sizeable amount of people that are disspointed with well executed, but same old script - just with a bit of lipstick.
They wanted diffrent script. Still they were looking in wrong place.
I m a big fun of Civ games. I ve played civ 2 & 3 for years , civ 4 only few months , and civ 5 only few days. Did I find Civ to be worse then previous games? No, I think its much better, but there are not that many new things in newer version. Basically I've played Civ too much and got burned out, Civ V was just a small improvement from prev. parts. Many feel that SW:TOR is just a WOW2.0 (same mehanics with some small improvements) After 5 years of WoW( and still playin but much less) its just not fun for me. Its a nice well-made game, but nothing I havent seen before. The Bioware storytelling is not something I find good, and something that would make me playing it.
I m a big fun of Civ games. I ve played civ 2 & 3 for years , civ 4 only few months , and civ 5 only few days. Did I find Civ to be worse then previous games? No, I think its much better, but there are not that many new things in newer version. Basically I've played Civ too much and got burned out, Civ V was just a small improvement from prev. parts.
Many feel that SW:TOR is just a WOW2.0 (same mehanics with some small improvements) After 5 years of WoW( and still playin but much less) its just not fun for me. Its a nice well-made game, but nothing I havent seen before. The Bioware storytelling is not something I find good, and something that would make me playing it.
We're diffrent then.
I played Civ 2 for years, Civ 3 for 2-3 months and never went back to it cause I did not like it, Civ4 is great and I played is almost as much as Civ2 and still play it sometimes, Civ5 was major disappointment (combat system, awful AI, massive bugs) for me and played it for few days.
It is not always beign burn out on certain type of game. I am actually bit fed up with all those arguments that people are burned out - instead of that they honestly don't like certain game for valid (though very subjective) reasons.
I am with you on Swtor though. This game is just same old thing with some lipstick (VO) on. Some people just don't like this. Not necessarily "burned out" - cause this imply that it is temporary state. Some people just have permanently changed their expectations. Not fed up cause of playing WoW-like mmorpg too much.
I m a big fun of Civ games. I ve played civ 2 & 3 for years , civ 4 only few months , and civ 5 only few days. Did I find Civ to be worse then previous games? No, I think its much better, but there are not that many new things in newer version. Basically I've played Civ too much and got burned out, Civ V was just a small improvement from prev. parts.
Many feel that SW:TOR is just a WOW2.0 (same mehanics with some small improvements) After 5 years of WoW( and still playin but much less) its just not fun for me. Its a nice well-made game, but nothing I havent seen before. The Bioware storytelling is not something I find good, and something that would make me playing it.
I thought the same thing when I tried WoW. An easier, less immersive version of EQ that bored me to tears, but was very successful. I'm not sure the majority of current gamers really want something different or innovative. I do hope the future mmo's will have some variety, at least, if not a drastic advancement in development that will lead to an actual innovation and not just a slight improvement to existing mechanics.
Good lord. Another person who still throws out that $300 million number? That price tag has long since been proven wrong and quite frankly anyone who keeps using it is someone I won't bother listening to.
proven where? everything I have read always just says estimated I've seen anywhere from 80 mil to 300 mil
Thats not what he said. He used the $300 million number. That number came out of some ex-EA employees ass, EALouse or something. Even he has since acknowledge that number is way too high.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
To be honest, knowing the huge pricetag made me more nitpicky about things like clipping than I would otherwise have been.
it costs exactly the same as every other MMO. stop being dramatic.
To be fair, it does cost $60, which is more than I've spent on a brand new MMO before. However, $60 seems to be the price point now for new games. I paid $60 for Skyrim and MW3 is the same price.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
The game is exactly what any logical person following its developement expected it to be. It's not some world shattering, genre morphing game. But I have been beyond pleased with it since I started way back when.
Disappointment = 0
I see where you're going with that but I'll have to add my 2cents. The game mechanics were no secret to anyone that payed any attention to the game, yes. But with a $300mil+ budget, you would expect some of the common sensical things that are wrong with the game to not be there. For instance: the world seems very bland and lifeless in parts. The few NPC's that do have idle animations barely ever do them. Mobs just stand there and do nothing in their little packs of 2-3 of them. There are not many ambient animations or noises in the game (note that I said not many, not "none").
Good lord. Another person who still throws out that $300 million number? That price tag has long since been proven wrong and quite frankly anyone who keeps using it is someone I won't bother listening to.
Another fanboi trying to protect his sacred game and his superstar devs!
SWTOR is a ruining of a great opportunity for another star wars title mmo. Nowhere in the game does it feel like you are in a star wars universe. If you baddies like single player games so much go play skyrim while the rest of us try to save the mmo market.
The $300 million number was proven to be pure BS a long time ago.
And trying to save the MMO market? Rage on tiny dance, rage on.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
i donno i love the game its the greatest MMo i played of the year...and should win the award for it also...i got it on release date the 20th and since then i cnt stop playing it...i skipped 3 days of work to play it
At wormy: LotRo was nothing and nobody on the hype list if Vanguard succeed. After Vanguard released prematurely and burned down in flames Lotro released polished.
The common opinion for LotRo was "it is polished".
Since then we have, what we have today. The safe route. No matter if it is MMOs or Shooters.
Good lord. Another person who still throws out that $300 million number? That price tag has long since been proven wrong and quite frankly anyone who keeps using it is someone I won't bother listening to.
proven where? everything I have read always just says estimated I've seen anywhere from 80 mil to 300 mil
Notice noone uses the 80 million mark?
If you don't like a game don't play it, and quit running to MMORPG.com to trash it.
Good lord. Another person who still throws out that $300 million number? That price tag has long since been proven wrong and quite frankly anyone who keeps using it is someone I won't bother listening to.
proven where? everything I have read always just says estimated I've seen anywhere from 80 mil to 300 mil
Notice noone uses the 80 million mark?
yea but thats irrelevent since no one has any proof if its the higher or lower or somewhere inbetween..
I'd say its mostly because swtor has 0 innovation whatsoever, it pretty much just copys and paste most of the games mechanics and systems from world of warcraft, which to many people makes bioware look like lazy jackasses, it also means they get a game that really is no diffrent than playing wow, Most of the people who wanna move on from wow, are not looking for a game that bascally is the "same shit in a diffrent wrapper" like swtor and rift ended up being. I mean, if its simmlar thats fine but bioware honestly did not even try, the combat, quest progression, and hell even the classes were pretty much copy and pasted from world of warcraft and just given a starwarsy skin/spin to them. I'm sorry but just adding voice overs that just end up being an annoyence is not what I'd call innovation.
I don't know about you, but I am sick and tired of generic wow-like combat systems, The game being linear as a underwater tunnel is an issue to, swtor also lacks any real replay value past leveling 1 char to cap in each faction due to it being like the tunnel i mentioned, at least WoW even at launch usually had 2-3 diff leveling zones per bracket, in swtor your denied that choice and just shoveled down the same path. There is also the fact that the worlds in swtor are horribly small for a mmorpg, there is really no exploration due to there just not being anything intersting off the path bioware makes you follow. A good example of a mmo with a decent sized world is Fallen Earth, you can always find something to do.
The endgame is also as big of a pile of fail as world of warcrafts is, there is really no reason to bother raiding, I mean think about it.. why bother? its not like you have any use for the gear anymore. You can't really pvp with it if you wanted due to expertise/resilence seregating pvp and pve players. I been dying for a game with daoc's pvp, and its pvp advancement, I don't understand why devs won't do it. Have pve raids, also give the best gear to pvp with, and just ignore the pvp whiners that want their own gear. It worked fine in daoc.
All in all a game being designed well does not mean its good, or exciting, it usually means its generic and boring least in the mmorpg world this seems true. It all comes down to the fact that the game is bascally wow in a star wars skin, and thats where all the dissapointment comes from.
Me? I am waiting for Phantasy Star Online 2, since it'll be a mmo that is not just another wow clone, Sega is doing their own thing and not even trying to compete with wow. To beat WoW, honestly? you can't just clone it and think you'll beat it doesn't work that way.
I suspect the game will probally retain less than 200k subs after the free month, due to virtually 0 replay value atm. To me swtor is a game that should have been a single player title and not a mmorpg, maybe have online play but not a sub fee.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Comments
There aren t that many disappointed, it s just that this is the biggest game to come along in many many years. In game , I rarely ever see anyone say the game is bad, as a matter of fact they re all praising it. Haters are just being very vocal because they have nothing to stand on now. The game is good, it s as simple as that, and it will only get better.
you can move the UI around by activating Operations frames, and even change the size of your party members' health bars. To do so go to Options > User Interface > Operations Frames > Use Operations Frames as Party Frames
At this point its pretty clear that it is exactly this kind of thinking line that piss off people, just gather the 2 or 3 most common critics on the web if you don't believe me.
Usually people are simple. You can always be a smart ass with them, but it won't work for a long time. When people say "its good", then it mean that it is really good. It does not mean "it's not bad" if you know what i mean. In the OP quote, they call good design what is not risky financially, those designs are good for them. But nobody give a damn about them right, they don't play those games, they don't pay for those games either. They should rather try to make good design for the players, maybe that would help them, maybe?
Well said!
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
No amount of great story will make up for the brainless and static AI.
to be fair you usually don't get much AI at all from any MMO
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
which is why it's even worse for a game to have worse AI, especially one so over hyped.
Rubbish there is always time for great design sadly not many are capable of this these days , and to hide the fact behind stupid deliverables is something totally different.
Financial Models , capability to deliver and the type of developer all play a part here in being able to deliver a final product.
But great design comes from great minds and should not be under estimated; Subsequent muppets who then undermine the development and implementation is something else not the design.
The few naysayers here regarding SWTOR are no where near representative of the majority.....
A game is currnetly being developed called "COS" the design is unbelievable ; 100% intact and will beat SWTOR hands down now sadlty the publishers have the opportunity to ruin it , i would hope this is not the case. But design by great mind comes along rarely, the MMO genre will only ever be fixed if they develop game pre WoW. As this is the stage where the game element was pretty much removed and replaced by mindless whack a mole and the "IQ of one required rule was applied".
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
People are disappointed cause even though Bioware quite openly admitted (though sometimes 'colorized' facts a bit) that Swtor will be pure themepark game that repeats well known WoW-like game concept, those people still foolishly hoped for something diffrent.
So Swtor is surely well executed game, that many people will have fun with (good for them!), there is sizeable amount of people that are disspointed with well executed, but same old script - just with a bit of lipstick.
They wanted diffrent script. Still they were looking in wrong place.
There are just pure trolls as well ofc.
it costs exactly the same as every other MMO. stop being dramatic.
except they arent, considering the majority of haters on this site havent even played the game.
Many feel that SW:TOR is just a WOW2.0 (same mehanics with some small improvements) After 5 years of WoW( and still playin but much less) its just not fun for me. Its a nice well-made game, but nothing I havent seen before. The Bioware storytelling is not something I find good, and something that would make me playing it.
We're diffrent then.
I played Civ 2 for years, Civ 3 for 2-3 months and never went back to it cause I did not like it, Civ4 is great and I played is almost as much as Civ2 and still play it sometimes, Civ5 was major disappointment (combat system, awful AI, massive bugs) for me and played it for few days.
It is not always beign burn out on certain type of game. I am actually bit fed up with all those arguments that people are burned out - instead of that they honestly don't like certain game for valid (though very subjective) reasons.
I am with you on Swtor though. This game is just same old thing with some lipstick (VO) on. Some people just don't like this. Not necessarily "burned out" - cause this imply that it is temporary state. Some people just have permanently changed their expectations. Not fed up cause of playing WoW-like mmorpg too much.
I thought the same thing when I tried WoW. An easier, less immersive version of EQ that bored me to tears, but was very successful. I'm not sure the majority of current gamers really want something different or innovative. I do hope the future mmo's will have some variety, at least, if not a drastic advancement in development that will lead to an actual innovation and not just a slight improvement to existing mechanics.
Thats not what he said. He used the $300 million number. That number came out of some ex-EA employees ass, EALouse or something. Even he has since acknowledge that number is way too high.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Do you have any sources to back up what you said? Didn't think so.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
To be fair, it does cost $60, which is more than I've spent on a brand new MMO before. However, $60 seems to be the price point now for new games. I paid $60 for Skyrim and MW3 is the same price.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to the likers and the haters.
The $300 million number was proven to be pure BS a long time ago.
Rage on tiny dance, rage on.
And trying to save the MMO market?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
i donno i love the game its the greatest MMo i played of the year...and should win the award for it also...i got it on release date the 20th and since then i cnt stop playing it...i skipped 3 days of work to play it
At wormy:
LotRo was nothing and nobody on the hype list if Vanguard succeed. After Vanguard released prematurely and burned down in flames Lotro released polished.
The common opinion for LotRo was "it is polished".
Since then we have, what we have today. The safe route. No matter if it is MMOs or Shooters.
Notice noone uses the 80 million mark?
If you don't like a game don't play it, and quit running to MMORPG.com to trash it.
yea but thats irrelevent since no one has any proof if its the higher or lower or somewhere inbetween..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
not to say either side is right but you have sources proving the majority loves the game?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I'd say its mostly because swtor has 0 innovation whatsoever, it pretty much just copys and paste most of the games mechanics and systems from world of warcraft, which to many people makes bioware look like lazy jackasses, it also means they get a game that really is no diffrent than playing wow, Most of the people who wanna move on from wow, are not looking for a game that bascally is the "same shit in a diffrent wrapper" like swtor and rift ended up being. I mean, if its simmlar thats fine but bioware honestly did not even try, the combat, quest progression, and hell even the classes were pretty much copy and pasted from world of warcraft and just given a starwarsy skin/spin to them. I'm sorry but just adding voice overs that just end up being an annoyence is not what I'd call innovation.
I don't know about you, but I am sick and tired of generic wow-like combat systems, The game being linear as a underwater tunnel is an issue to, swtor also lacks any real replay value past leveling 1 char to cap in each faction due to it being like the tunnel i mentioned, at least WoW even at launch usually had 2-3 diff leveling zones per bracket, in swtor your denied that choice and just shoveled down the same path. There is also the fact that the worlds in swtor are horribly small for a mmorpg, there is really no exploration due to there just not being anything intersting off the path bioware makes you follow. A good example of a mmo with a decent sized world is Fallen Earth, you can always find something to do.
The endgame is also as big of a pile of fail as world of warcrafts is, there is really no reason to bother raiding, I mean think about it.. why bother? its not like you have any use for the gear anymore. You can't really pvp with it if you wanted due to expertise/resilence seregating pvp and pve players. I been dying for a game with daoc's pvp, and its pvp advancement, I don't understand why devs won't do it. Have pve raids, also give the best gear to pvp with, and just ignore the pvp whiners that want their own gear. It worked fine in daoc.
All in all a game being designed well does not mean its good, or exciting, it usually means its generic and boring least in the mmorpg world this seems true. It all comes down to the fact that the game is bascally wow in a star wars skin, and thats where all the dissapointment comes from.
Me? I am waiting for Phantasy Star Online 2, since it'll be a mmo that is not just another wow clone, Sega is doing their own thing and not even trying to compete with wow. To beat WoW, honestly? you can't just clone it and think you'll beat it doesn't work that way.
I suspect the game will probally retain less than 200k subs after the free month, due to virtually 0 replay value atm. To me swtor is a game that should have been a single player title and not a mmorpg, maybe have online play but not a sub fee.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!