Who Is Really Crafting?

Royalkin

Who Is Really Crafting?

 

This is about crafting, and the recent change in mechanic design to allow companions/NPCs to craft for player characters. The premise behind this seems to be, that ‘heroes’ are too busy ‘saving the universe’ in order to do something so lowly as crafting. Therefore, the design mechanic purports to remove the necessity of the player character from having to engage in such a boring and laborious chore. Even with this though, I contend that the player is still the one who is actually doing the crafting, and to claim the player character is NOT the one who is crafting is a fallacious and misleading premise.

 

The reason for this post is to analyze the mindset of some people who find crafting a distracting, useless and laborious process, but then are somehow accepting of a system wherein a companion/NPC is the one who is supposedly crafting. Also though, it is to address the lack of foresight with developers who create these mechanics somehow believing that the gaming community is too ignorant to see through their thinly watered down and thinly veiled disguise. It is contended that if some form of a crafting system exits within a game; it must be the player character who crafts, and not a companion/NPC.

 

The real question here is obviously, who is really doing the crafting? I see no difference between the two, especially since in either case, especially so since the player is still the one pushing the same associated buttons, placing specific materials into a recipe, and initiating the crafting process (i.e., the player must still ‘instruct’(push a button) the companion/NPC to ‘craft’ the item). Also, the mechanic associated with the advancement and progression of the skill(s) associated with crafting seems to be no different regardless of whether the player or the companion/NPC is the once ‘supposedly’ crafting. Those specific skills, if the process of crafting is ‘supposedly’ given to a companion/NPC, are still similar, and those skills must be improved through the same progression (i.e., the more crafting is done, the better one becomes at it) in order to acquire better materials and (or) recipes (or to improve the quality of the crafted item).

 

Therefore, if the player is still a required participant in the crafting process, then they are ipso facto crafting. Furthermore once again, to claim that the player character is NOT the one crafting is simply not true, nor is the process any less laborious or time consuming. It is simply the illusion that the player character is not crafting, but has passed that ‘chore’ onto a lesser minion, and is thus freed to ‘save the universe’. So, it is concluded that as long as some type of crafting system exists, the player character can therefore be the only one who is actually crafting.

EvilGeek

Once you have two companions the crafting doesn't stop you from carrying on playing, you're free to do other stuff, that's the biggest difference - it's for people who don't like crafting it's not a system for crafters like me. I'm not a fan of the system, but then I'm not a fan of most crafting systems, they tend to rely on RNG far too much and not player skill. SWTOR has a pure RNG system, to get better recipes you need to reverse engineer, you may or may not get a new recipe, it gets boring and frustrating pretty quickly. No one is really crafting they are just throwing dice.

Scypheroth

i cant stop crafting the moment i got a crew members all shes been doing is silicing...im lvl 24 and my silicing is over 300 and im making roughly 1k per job...x2 cuz now i got 2 crew members....though i do find it annoying when inm in the middle of a fight and they report in and the window pops up.

keenber

I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.

The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.

So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .

Royalkin

Originally posted by keenber

I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.

The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.

So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .

 

The crafting system in SWG was a grind and a time sink, but because of the effort required to do it, when you did achieve something of high quality or top tier skill, it was a 'real' achievement, and not something you received from simply completing a ramdon idiotic quest.

Also, it is not necessarily true to say that every crafting system employs a system where recipes are acquired from mob drops or mission rewards. Recipes could be acquired through the advancement of the associated skill(s).

EvilGeek

---

Originally posted by keenber
I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.
The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.
So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .

---

Did I say that any current crafting systems require any degree of skill? I don't believe I did, I'm moaning about the general lack of ideas from developers when it comes to crafting, can a crafting system be made that requires skill? I believe it can, Vanguard tried to add a little bit of brain work to the system but it quickly became an annoying mini game, didn't play SWG but from the sounds of it at least, like Vanguard it was something more than just RNG.

(Have friends over so cant comment as much as I'd like, I'll come back to this thread)

fenistil

Originally posted by keenber

I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.

The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.

So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .

Well 'skilled' it is not, but still I would take SWG crafting even with time-sinks over crafting systems that are in f.e. Rift / WoW.

 

Most things in mmorpg's are time-sinks.  F.e. In order to get 'raid-ready' you have to invest alot of time to gear-up. Similarly to if want to be competetive in PvP, etc

Same with crafting.

 

No time-investment needed in crafting = everyone crafts and no viable economy is possible.

 

Not everyone want and need to craft same as not everyone want or need to raid or do all possible quests or pvp, etc

 

All games have time-investments needed.  One way or another.

 

Not to mention that one person will find 'mats-hunting' horrible time-sink and second person will find it as enjoyable gameplay. 

 

keenber

Oh how boring would that be if every recipe was just given to you that random element for me atleast makes crafting fun. Grinding for days to get that recipe you want or that rare mat you want gives me a great feeling of actually achieveing something.

Btw i have 3 diff crafting skills up over 150 one is 200 in SWToR and i am haveing a blast with it i actually like that rng side of it and the advanceing my gear as i lvl up is really cool.

Love the fact that you can get that look you are looking for and for the most part stay with it and just improve the gear you have .

What i hate is how peep dont respect your mats anymore and while you are fighting the mobs that are protecting them they sneak in and steal it from you But i guess thats just how this gen of players are these days

Thorqemada

The crafting process itself is usually very boring bcs of its repetetive and non-challenging nature - crafting is often a matter of having bots and macros.

In SWG what made it that special was the exploration for good material, being a prospector on the hunt for the next high stats ore or whatever interacting with the planetary wildlife, finding a spot, clearing it, setting up the harvesters and having a logistic chain to keep them running als long there is ore and get the ore away to your factorys.
What crafting made special was the experimentation with the stuff you harvested.
Trying to get the best result, or the best tailored solution for a specific task.

SWTOR imho is missing the quality of SWG crafting (as every other game out there also) but at least it takes the boring part away and makes it a bit of a crew managing minigame that gives slight rewards - its better than nothing, its better than the usual boring crafting stuff, it is an improvement!

So, i have it run as sidekick while moving forward in the storyline.

Royalkin

Originally posted by keenber

Oh how boring would that be if every recipe was just given to you that random element for me atleast makes crafting fun. Grinding for days to get that recipe you want or that rare mat you want gives me a great feeling of actually achieveing something.

 

I don't think I disagree with you, although I'm confused. Previously you were critical of the grind, but now your in favor of it? I'm sincerely not trying to flame, I'm just confused by your comments. Please explain?

For me though, the grind involved in the progression of the skill in which I acquire a new recipe is what drives me. It's a lengthy process, but the satisfaction of the achivement is worth it. Crafting in games today is just so shallow, and comes no where near that, it feels very "rinse and repeat".

Royalkin

Originally posted by Blutmaul

In SWG what made it that special was the exploration for good material, being a prospector on the hunt for the next high stats ore or whatever interacting with the planetary wildlife, finding a spot, clearing it, setting up the harvesters and having a logistic chain to keep them running als long ther is ore and get the ore away to your factorys.

What crafting made special was the experimentation with the stuff you harvested.

Trying to get the best result, or the best tailored solution for a specific task.

 

Yes exactly.

Zinzan

Originally posted by Royalkin

Originally posted by Blutmaul

In SWG what made it that special was the exploration for good material, being a prospector on the hunt for the next high stats ore or whatever interacting with the planetary wildlife, finding a spot, clearing it, setting up the harvesters and having a logistic chain to keep them running als long ther is ore and get the ore away to your factorys.

What crafting made special was the experimentation with the stuff you harvested.

Trying to get the best result, or the best tailored solution for a specific task.

 

Yes exactly.

Yep, SWG had a brilliant harvesting system, but the actual crafting was less interresting. However, i think this worked great with SWG because it was essentially a sandbox mmo.

For a themepark, i like the way TOR has gone with crafting, turning it into a side-game instead of a full-time profession. The focus is the story rather than a more pedestrian existance of living in the SWG world.

I still think SWG was the best harvesting and social game i ever played, but only pre-jedi grind. After that forget it, this aspect of the game was ruined as almost everyone got on the treadmill.

Dreamo84

What is RNG?

Also, I love the crafting system on this game. Its the only game I actually like crafting in. To me, they did take all the chore out of crafting. Ya i still have to click a button, but how else would you do it? Have your companion craft on his own without you telling him what to make? Who knows what you'd end up with! lol

Another note, I would like to know what you would do differently, what kind of crafting system would you like to see?

Unknown

Originally posted by Fendel84M

What is RNG?

Also, I love the crafting system on this game. Its the only game I actually like crafting in. To me, they did take all the chore out of crafting. Ya i still have to click a button, but how else would you do it? Have your companion craft on his own without you telling him what to make? Who knows what you'd end up with! lol

Another note, I would like to know what you would do differently, what kind of crafting system would you like to see?

RNG = Random Number Generator

ktanner3

Talk about splitting hairs.The difference with tor crafting is that you don't have to stand there watching a status bar anymore like you did with most games. Now I can send my companion off to gather or craft while I do other things. You are the boss of your own workshop rather than being the laborer. That's the difference.

Eladi

Originally posted by Zinzan

Originally posted by Royalkin

Originally posted by Blutmaul

In SWG what made it that special was the exploration for good material, being a prospector on the hunt for the next high stats ore or whatever interacting with the planetary wildlife, finding a spot, clearing it, setting up the harvesters and having a logistic chain to keep them running als long ther is ore and get the ore away to your factorys.

What crafting made special was the experimentation with the stuff you harvested.

Trying to get the best result, or the best tailored solution for a specific task.

 

Yes exactly.

Yep, SWG had a brilliant harvesting system, but the actual crafting was less interresting. However, i think this worked great with SWG because it was essentially a sandbox mmo.

For a themepark, i like the way TOR has gone with crafting, turning it into a side-game instead of a full-time profession. The focus is the story rather than a more pedestrian existance of living in the SWG world.

I still think SWG was the best harvesting and social game i ever played, but only pre-jedi grind. After that forget it, this aspect of the game was ruined as almost everyone got on the treadmill.

Anyone who thinks they can be a good crafter part-time is sw:tor is quite wrong haha. it takes immense amounds of time and resorces (and credits) to "unlock" everyting in youre craft. you might find yourself going from planet to planet harvesting nodes for resorces at some point since its the faster and cheaper thing to do  while you also have companions running missions all the time for the more rare mats.

Everyone can craft in sw:tor but only those who realy are into crafting and trading will be "real crafters"  

DarLorkar

I dont really look at it as crafting.

More along the lines of a automated gathering. Or a mini game?

Just takes some of the grind out of most of what we see in MMO's that is called crafting.

I think the only 2 games i can recall that had close to real crafting were SWG and EQ2.

Both of those it mattered what you did. You need to go out and find the best ingredients in SWG to make the best gear. And in EQ2 they made it a mini game that you needed to use skills to make better gear while a piece was building to get the best out of it.

 

 

 

teakbois

Its taking the traditional crafting model found in WoW, LOTRO and Rift but giving a spin to it appropriate for the game.  In theory the system isnt all that different, but it does become a bit of a resource management system as you move on in levels.  There isnt the time or the credits to unlock all recipes as you level.  You have to specialize a little.  Sure, at 50 you can go back and get everything.  But if you are a synthweaver or armormech it will take quite a long time.

Setsun

Originally posted by ktanner3

Talk about splitting hairs.The difference with tor crafting is that you don't have to stand there watching a status bar anymore like you did with most games. Now I can send my companion off to gather or craft while I do other things. You are the boss of your own workshop rather than being the laborer. That's the difference.

I agree. I love the crafting in swtor, productive and different.

I dont think that "we heroes are too busy saving the world", we collect matts just like any other companion. While me anda  companion are fighting the others craft or do missions, its a group effort and everyone does its share of the work.

drbaltazar

for the solo player?their companion is crafting!most use their companion to level up faster but a few smarter are sending their companion level up crafting and gathering while the player level up the character!oh it isnt has easy but way more fun!

Blazeyer

Originally posted by keenber

I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.

The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.

So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .

You ever craft in ffxi :P? or even ffxiv for that matter?

 

Bama1267

Yeah, I can send my guys out while Im in a flashpoint or content that I dont need a companion for. Now Idont have to sit ad craft and craft and craft or go out and collect mats for hours on end. Instead I send my companions out while I DO the fighting!

Loktofeit

Originally posted by keenber

I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.

AC

BlackUhuru

There used to be a time in mmorpg history that high level crafters had respect, they where sought after and admired. You could play the game completly different then others, and be unique in you accomplishments.

 

 

Keogh

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

There used to be a time in mmorpg history that high level crafters had respect, they where sought after and admired. You could play the game completly different then others, and be unique in you accomplishments.

 

 

Your comment shows that you are perhaps aging and growing nostalgic. Times change.

 

I remember black and white TV and rotary phones.

 

I like the crafting system. Its' like a RTS mini-game where you manage resources.

onthestick

I am crafting a lot and i am broke constantly. It is a bit too expensive and i hope Bioware will bring the cost a bit down. Reverse engineering right now can really kill your bank.