I am crafting a lot and i am broke constantly. It is a bit too expensive and i hope Bioware will bring the cost a bit down. Reverse engineering right now can really kill your bank.
I personally hope they don't. And I have a synthweave so I know how difficult it is to get the specific purple recipe you want.
I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.
The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.
So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .
Did I say that any current crafting systems require any degree of skill? I don't believe I did, I'm moaning about the general lack of ideas from developers when it comes to crafting, can a crafting system be made that requires skill? I believe it can, Vanguard tried to add a little bit of brain work to the system but it quickly became an annoying mini game, didn't play SWG but from the sounds of it at least, like Vanguard it was something more than just RNG.
(Have friends over so cant comment as much as I'd like, I'll come back to this thread)
I think SWG made it most interesting by having resources of varying qualities (and spawns that changed once every few weeks) which affected the quality of the final product. They also had rare mob drops that served as enhancements which could boost quality. Finally, during the crafting session, there was what is called "experimentation", which gave you the chance to gamble on a critical success or failure. These things combined made crafting more fun because not everything in the game was exactly the same. You could go buy a standard blaster, or you could go buy a master-crafted blaster that sported enhancements thanks to a good crafter.
Crafting now is a joke. You know, I like combat as much as anyone else, but I also like the downtime and social aspect of taking a break from being the big hero, to just craft out some cool gear while chatting with guildies. This can be said of social and other non-combat classes in general. While I understand many people prefer to just be in PvE or PvP combat at all times, this isn't true for everyone.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I think SWG made it most interesting by having resources of varying qualities (and spawns that changed once every few weeks) which affected the quality of the final product. They also had rare mob drops that served as enhancements which could boost quality. Finally, during the crafting session, there was what is called "experimentation", which gave you the chance to gamble on a critical success or failure. These things combined made crafting more fun because not everything in the game was exactly the same. You could go buy a standard blaster, or you could go buy a master-crafted blaster that sported enhancements thanks to a good crafter.
Crafting now is a joke. You know, I like combat as much as anyone else, but I also like the downtime and social aspect of taking a break from being the big hero, to just craft out some cool gear while chatting with guildies. This can be said of social and other non-combat classes in general. While I understand many people prefer to just be in PvE or PvP combat at all times, this isn't true for everyone.
Are you even playing SWTOR? If you are just a sour grapes SWG person, we get it. SWTOR isn't for you.
If you just want to craft, go try A Tale in the Desert V. Its' a sandbox, non-combat crafting game.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez" Bladezz (The Guild)
I would like to know what mmo has a crafting system that isnt throw of the dice just cause some recipes are gotten from missions/rng where is the dif from a system that recipes are gotten from mob drops/failur on crafting ect.
The only crafting that worked was SWG crafting and that was a huge grind and time sink just to get the good matierals which were random spawns over all the planets.
So to say that any crafting was or is skilled is just silly .
I play mmos for the crafting and socializing/rp with the occasional large scale pvp. I'm happy to say that in SWTOR, I am able to enjoy all of these aspects.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I think SWG made it most interesting by having resources of varying qualities (and spawns that changed once every few weeks) which affected the quality of the final product. They also had rare mob drops that served as enhancements which could boost quality. Finally, during the crafting session, there was what is called "experimentation", which gave you the chance to gamble on a critical success or failure. These things combined made crafting more fun because not everything in the game was exactly the same. You could go buy a standard blaster, or you could go buy a master-crafted blaster that sported enhancements thanks to a good crafter.
Crafting now is a joke. You know, I like combat as much as anyone else, but I also like the downtime and social aspect of taking a break from being the big hero, to just craft out some cool gear while chatting with guildies. This can be said of social and other non-combat classes in general. While I understand many people prefer to just be in PvE or PvP combat at all times, this isn't true for everyone.
Are you even playing SWTOR? If you are just a sour grapes SWG person, we get it. SWTOR isn't for you.
If you just want to craft, go try A Tale in the Desert V. Its' a sandbox, non-combat crafting game.
[Mod Edit]
There is no reason why crafting can't be more engaging in themepark games. Not everyone plays like you do, and that's ok. You don't have to get upset about it.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
i donno what u guys r complaining about crafting in SW is top notch! guy in my guild is lvl 27 with 570,000credits and all made by his crafting of stimpacks and the ah...nuff said
i donno what u guys r complaining about crafting in SW is top notch! guy in my guild is lvl 27 with 570,000credits and all made by his crafting of stimpacks and the ah...nuff said
It's a difference in point of view. You judge crafting on how much money you can make, and item quality, where some people judge crafting systems on how interesting and complex they are as a gameplay system in addition to money and quality.
If I judge SWTOR's crafting system on being an engaging and interesting experience alone, it fails. In fact, we don't even really craft at all, we just tell our companions to.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by MindTrigger Originally posted by Scypheroth i donno what u guys r complaining about crafting in SW is top notch! guy in my guild is lvl 27 with 570,000credits and all made by his crafting of stimpacks and the ah...nuff said
It's a difference in point of view. You judge crafting on how much money you can make, and item quality, where some people judge crafting systems on how interesting and complex they are as a gameplay system in addition to money and quality. If I judge SWTOR's crafting system on being an engaging and interesting experience alone, it fails. In fact, we don't even really craft at all, we just tell our companions to.
I can think of about 3 mmos in the past decade that really nailed the crafting system. At this point, I just try to make the best of a shallow situation. TOR fares much better than other themepark crafting systems thats for sure
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I think SWG made it most interesting by having resources of varying qualities (and spawns that changed once every few weeks) which affected the quality of the final product. They also had rare mob drops that served as enhancements which could boost quality. Finally, during the crafting session, there was what is called "experimentation", which gave you the chance to gamble on a critical success or failure. These things combined made crafting more fun because not everything in the game was exactly the same. You could go buy a standard blaster, or you could go buy a master-crafted blaster that sported enhancements thanks to a good crafter.
Crafting now is a joke. You know, I like combat as much as anyone else, but I also like the downtime and social aspect of taking a break from being the big hero, to just craft out some cool gear while chatting with guildies. This can be said of social and other non-combat classes in general. While I understand many people prefer to just be in PvE or PvP combat at all times, this isn't true for everyone.
Are you even playing SWTOR? If you are just a sour grapes SWG person, we get it. SWTOR isn't for you.
If you just want to craft, go try A Tale in the Desert V. Its' a sandbox, non-combat crafting game.
Ahh fanboys.
There is no reason why crafting can't be more engaging in themepark games. Not everyone plays like you do, and that's ok. You don't have to get upset about it.
He asked a legit question. If you had played the game you would know that crafting in TOR is a choice.You can do it whether engaged in combat or standing idle by in a cantina. Just yesterday I decided to spend most of my game time sending my companion out to salvage and craft while I explored the map for resources. There is also plenty of experimentation where not everything comes out the same. Again, had you actually played the game you would know this.
The ability to have your companions craft just allows you to do two things at once - you're crafting in the background and adventuring in the foreground. Once you have two companions, you don't have to worry about whether or not you'll run into an elite or anything like that. I like the system as it is. I'd like to add some sort of custom recipes, but that might be asking a lot from a theme park game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Crafting in SWTOR is awesome. From managing companions while you are out doing stuff to the crit mechanics on both crafted gear and recipes. I'm armsteching my ass off and I love it, really.
Agree with OP. well written post. I have tried telling people many times that this system is not "automatic" or anything bot-like. You said it better than me.
This is about crafting, and the recent change in mechanic design to allow companions/NPCs to craft for player characters.
Recent? crafting was been done by the companions since crafting ws introduced in beta. That is one of the things I really liked about the game, no time sink of sitting in a crafting hall making igots or whatever. With only 1 comapnion it has to be timed at first to coincide with your town runs or at logout but once you get your second and third companions you can kick some items out
i'm loving the crafting, i have 4 companions atm, can send 3 of them on jobs even on 25minutes missions for scavenging and underworld trading, my Amorsmech is at 302 i'm lvl 32 Vanguard, so atm i cant do lvl 33 gear it is great to have the crew skill at this lvl since i can make gear for my companion's.
I'm enjoying the crafting system because at least its has value from the get go, once I realised this I decided to kit me and my companion with only crafted gear and not take gear rewards from quests where I can, so I have us both about 80% crafted gear and that really adds to my roleplaying and immsersion. The reverse engineering is a great way to mitigate the masses of things you craft in other MMO's just to progress and having your companions doing the crafting and gathering takes away a feeling of grind. I've played both EQ2 and Vanguard and even though the crafting minigames were fun they really became a chore later on. That's probably why Bioware decided not to go down the minigame route, instead it was better to have more of a management game instead which I think is a good balance between the overly simplsitic and eventually irrelevant WoW and Rift systems and the deep and complex SWG, Ryzom, EQ2, Vangurd ones. Also hopefully they'll expand it if enough people are enjoying it.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
1. Themeparks will rarely have an indepth crafting system where a players action matters when it comes to making something of quality
2. In TOR the companions do the crafting. The difference is, you are not hovering over a crafting bench unable to do anything other than consentrate on crafting. In TOR you can be on a mission fighting while having your companions do the work at your ship. Yes you make all the decisions but it all boils down to multitasking
3. This is yet another discussion about how SWG was better
There used to be a time in mmorpg history that high level crafters had respect, they where sought after and admired. You could play the game completly different then others, and be unique in you accomplishments.
Your comment shows that you are perhaps aging and growing nostalgic. Times change.
I remember black and white TV and rotary phones.
I like the crafting system. Its' like a RTS mini-game where you manage resources.
Resource Managment is all Themepark games are nowadays...
As much as i enjoy PvP and killing mobs i need to be offered more then just resource managment.
But that just my play style i enjoy treasure hunting, puzzle solving, building houses, fishing, taming, crafting, cartography, community events etc etc.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Well...I really don't think there's anything wrong with someone who imagines that its their character doing the crafting (albeit "offscreen") vs. their companions...or even a mix of both. Other MMOs out there provide crafting that happens on the side even while the main character is running around (Fallen Earth springs to mind), so I don't see any reason this should be looked at differently. To me it just seems like Bioware was nice enough not to punish me with a prolonged crafting animation every time I wanted to make something.....and provided a more interesting way to frame what is going on by tethering it to the companions.
I don't think the intention was to not have the players craft. It's simply a roleplaying, contextual story mechanism to differentiate from the player's character's heroism and the mundane ordinariness of crafting. Whether or not that is a good thing is a separate conversation, as many players seem to dislike being forced into the hero role, especially since it is inherently diminished by the fact that every other player is also somehow an extraordinary hero.
If *players* couldn't participate in crafting at all, that is click the buttons and choose the recipes, there would indeed be a large uproar.
In modern MMO's, the philosophy is that all players must be able to do everything in the game, or as close as possible.
So everyone must be able to craft, and crafting must not "interfere" with gameplay. The crafting minigames that DO exist in most AAA games are trivial, because the average player must be able to complete them with a high success rate. So the only way to make crafting "special" is to introduce rare recipes and resources, which are "rare" by virtue of the fact that they require a lot of grinding to unlock or acquire. The RNG determines your success, and beating it comes down to how many times you are prepared to "roll the dice".
In a crafting-oriented game like ATitD, the crafting minigames are a real challenge, and require actual player skill. Only a handful of people in the game can produce really high quality items with any consistency, because the rest of the playerbase simply cannot easily master the minigames. That scenario would not be acceptable to the majority of SWTOR (or EQ or Rift or WoW) players.
SWTOR is not the first game to allow a player to craft without requiring them to be in a workshop or standing next to a crafting machine. SWG and EVE did that years ago by having factories. Fallen Earth did it by allowing you to start a crafting job anywhere, anytime, and immediately continue with your normal play.
Comments
I personally hope they don't. And I have a synthweave so I know how difficult it is to get the specific purple recipe you want.
I think SWG made it most interesting by having resources of varying qualities (and spawns that changed once every few weeks) which affected the quality of the final product. They also had rare mob drops that served as enhancements which could boost quality. Finally, during the crafting session, there was what is called "experimentation", which gave you the chance to gamble on a critical success or failure. These things combined made crafting more fun because not everything in the game was exactly the same. You could go buy a standard blaster, or you could go buy a master-crafted blaster that sported enhancements thanks to a good crafter.
Crafting now is a joke. You know, I like combat as much as anyone else, but I also like the downtime and social aspect of taking a break from being the big hero, to just craft out some cool gear while chatting with guildies. This can be said of social and other non-combat classes in general. While I understand many people prefer to just be in PvE or PvP combat at all times, this isn't true for everyone.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Are you even playing SWTOR? If you are just a sour grapes SWG person, we get it. SWTOR isn't for you.
If you just want to craft, go try A Tale in the Desert V. Its' a sandbox, non-combat crafting game.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
Vanguard!
REALITY CHECK
I play mmos for the crafting and socializing/rp with the occasional large scale pvp. I'm happy to say that in SWTOR, I am able to enjoy all of these aspects.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
[Mod Edit]
There is no reason why crafting can't be more engaging in themepark games. Not everyone plays like you do, and that's ok. You don't have to get upset about it.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
i donno what u guys r complaining about crafting in SW is top notch! guy in my guild is lvl 27 with 570,000credits and all made by his crafting of stimpacks and the ah...nuff said
It's a difference in point of view. You judge crafting on how much money you can make, and item quality, where some people judge crafting systems on how interesting and complex they are as a gameplay system in addition to money and quality.
If I judge SWTOR's crafting system on being an engaging and interesting experience alone, it fails. In fact, we don't even really craft at all, we just tell our companions to.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
If I judge SWTOR's crafting system on being an engaging and interesting experience alone, it fails. In fact, we don't even really craft at all, we just tell our companions to.
I can think of about 3 mmos in the past decade that really nailed the crafting system. At this point, I just try to make the best of a shallow situation. TOR fares much better than other themepark crafting systems thats for sure
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
He asked a legit question. If you had played the game you would know that crafting in TOR is a choice.You can do it whether engaged in combat or standing idle by in a cantina. Just yesterday I decided to spend most of my game time sending my companion out to salvage and craft while I explored the map for resources. There is also plenty of experimentation where not everything comes out the same. Again, had you actually played the game you would know this.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I like it....I like it ALOT
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Crafting?
Hell I just got my companions splice skill up to like 7. I have no clue how this system works, but eventually I will.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
The ability to have your companions craft just allows you to do two things at once - you're crafting in the background and adventuring in the foreground. Once you have two companions, you don't have to worry about whether or not you'll run into an elite or anything like that. I like the system as it is. I'd like to add some sort of custom recipes, but that might be asking a lot from a theme park game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Crafting in SWTOR is awesome. From managing companions while you are out doing stuff to the crit mechanics on both crafted gear and recipes. I'm armsteching my ass off and I love it, really.
WTS PURPOL BARROL!!!!
My brand new bloggity blog.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Recent? crafting was been done by the companions since crafting ws introduced in beta. That is one of the things I really liked about the game, no time sink of sitting in a crafting hall making igots or whatever. With only 1 comapnion it has to be timed at first to coincide with your town runs or at logout but once you get your second and third companions you can kick some items out
I miss DAoC
i'm loving the crafting, i have 4 companions atm, can send 3 of them on jobs even on 25minutes missions for scavenging and underworld trading, my Amorsmech is at 302 i'm lvl 32 Vanguard, so atm i cant do lvl 33 gear it is great to have the crew skill at this lvl since i can make gear for my companion's.
It requires a litle bit of imagination. Other wise yes, you click the button to run the process. Big deal?
I'm enjoying the crafting system because at least its has value from the get go, once I realised this I decided to kit me and my companion with only crafted gear and not take gear rewards from quests where I can, so I have us both about 80% crafted gear and that really adds to my roleplaying and immsersion. The reverse engineering is a great way to mitigate the masses of things you craft in other MMO's just to progress and having your companions doing the crafting and gathering takes away a feeling of grind. I've played both EQ2 and Vanguard and even though the crafting minigames were fun they really became a chore later on. That's probably why Bioware decided not to go down the minigame route, instead it was better to have more of a management game instead which I think is a good balance between the overly simplsitic and eventually irrelevant WoW and Rift systems and the deep and complex SWG, Ryzom, EQ2, Vangurd ones. Also hopefully they'll expand it if enough people are enjoying it.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
1. Themeparks will rarely have an indepth crafting system where a players action matters when it comes to making something of quality
2. In TOR the companions do the crafting. The difference is, you are not hovering over a crafting bench unable to do anything other than consentrate on crafting. In TOR you can be on a mission fighting while having your companions do the work at your ship. Yes you make all the decisions but it all boils down to multitasking
3. This is yet another discussion about how SWG was better
I'm trying but keep getting confused.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Resource Managment is all Themepark games are nowadays...
As much as i enjoy PvP and killing mobs i need to be offered more then just resource managment.
But that just my play style i enjoy treasure hunting, puzzle solving, building houses, fishing, taming, crafting, cartography, community events etc etc.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Well...I really don't think there's anything wrong with someone who imagines that its their character doing the crafting (albeit "offscreen") vs. their companions...or even a mix of both. Other MMOs out there provide crafting that happens on the side even while the main character is running around (Fallen Earth springs to mind), so I don't see any reason this should be looked at differently. To me it just seems like Bioware was nice enough not to punish me with a prolonged crafting animation every time I wanted to make something.....and provided a more interesting way to frame what is going on by tethering it to the companions.
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
I don't think the intention was to not have the players craft. It's simply a roleplaying, contextual story mechanism to differentiate from the player's character's heroism and the mundane ordinariness of crafting. Whether or not that is a good thing is a separate conversation, as many players seem to dislike being forced into the hero role, especially since it is inherently diminished by the fact that every other player is also somehow an extraordinary hero.
If *players* couldn't participate in crafting at all, that is click the buttons and choose the recipes, there would indeed be a large uproar.
In modern MMO's, the philosophy is that all players must be able to do everything in the game, or as close as possible.
So everyone must be able to craft, and crafting must not "interfere" with gameplay. The crafting minigames that DO exist in most AAA games are trivial, because the average player must be able to complete them with a high success rate. So the only way to make crafting "special" is to introduce rare recipes and resources, which are "rare" by virtue of the fact that they require a lot of grinding to unlock or acquire. The RNG determines your success, and beating it comes down to how many times you are prepared to "roll the dice".
In a crafting-oriented game like ATitD, the crafting minigames are a real challenge, and require actual player skill. Only a handful of people in the game can produce really high quality items with any consistency, because the rest of the playerbase simply cannot easily master the minigames. That scenario would not be acceptable to the majority of SWTOR (or EQ or Rift or WoW) players.
SWTOR is not the first game to allow a player to craft without requiring them to be in a workshop or standing next to a crafting machine. SWG and EVE did that years ago by having factories. Fallen Earth did it by allowing you to start a crafting job anywhere, anytime, and immediately continue with your normal play.