Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
SWTOR vs. RIFT for game of the year, and general comparison.
Margulis
Member CommonPosts: 1,614
I decided to fire up RIFT to get an idea of how that game compares to SWTOR - with all of the debate about which should be game of the year.
I've got to tell you, after playing a few months of SWTOR both in beta and since release - playing RIFT feels like going from junior high to high school. Let's be honest, they are both theme park clones with their specific cherry on top to the theme park sundae - SWTOR with the story and voice acting and RIFT with the rifts. But after you take each game's gimmick away and look at the rest of the game, RIFT just seems SOOOOOOOO much higher quality.
RIFT's character creation is much better since it actually has sliders and so forth - although it suffers the same "only human type race problem" as TOR. RIFT's UI is great, the world actually FEELS alive with weather, swimming, world creatures, scripted npc events / chatter, ambient sounds, etc etc as opposed to the static and dead feeling of TOR. Also just the general game is so much more complete, it's got a great functioning UI, macros, very thorough achievement system, alternate advancement system, collection system, zone puzzles, nice graphics, guild functinoality, good auction house, etc. I thnk both games suffer from poor pvp and a bit of a linear feel, with RIFT even worse than TOR due to having just 2 starting areas, but in general it just plays like a much higher quality game.
The argument could be made that TOR is new and it will get there, but when it comes to game of the year we aren't predicting how a game WILL be, it is "which mmo is the best right now in 2011." To me, it's a bit baffling how SWTOR could win this category, because the only thing it seems to really do exceptionally well above RIFT is the story and voice acting.
If you disagree that's perfectly fine, but please explain why you think it is that TOR deserves to be GOTY and what sets it to that level. Perhaps I missed something.
Comments
SWTOR AND BIORWARE DEFENSE FORCE UNITE!!!!!!
This bout to get real son.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Why would it get real? If you click on someones name, you can look at previous forum posts. That allows you to tell a poster's general leaning towards the subject they are posting about.
So the OP disliking this game is not a new thing, and like the other 3 billion "I hate SWTOR and the horse it rode in on, the stable the horse was put in and the earth the stable was built on threads" it probably won't elict much response after a few half hearted attempts.
Completely agree with you. I finally picked up TOR yesterday partially because I was bored and partially because of TB's podcast. I have to admit I'm having fun but only because of the story. I will say I'm not a huge fan of themepark style combat so take that for what it is.
For MMO of the year yes, Rift wins. TOR has a ton of potential for a themepark and I think Bioware will get it there eventually. But like the OP said, MMO-OTY is not about potential but what the game is.
The only other question I have is if TOR really has had the biggest budget of any current MMO then wtf did they spend the money on besides the story/voice acting. The other aspects of a themepark are there but in a cheaply done way. Stephen Reid said bioware has a huge team working on TOR. Maybe they need to reduce the team and expect better results from a smaller crew.
Instead of using a pseudo straw man argument to try and discredit the post - perhaps you could list why you think it should be GOTY? Maybe I missed something.
Then there is the people who cant help but only say TOR is the greatest thing since sliced bread when the truth is the game has some issues. I dont hate TOR, and I hope over time Bioware fixes the issues it does have. But after 1 beta weekend and playing it since yesterday some of the issue are plain to see in most cases. If the OP is talking about MMO of the year, and it seems he is, then he is 100% correct saying its Rift....and I dont even like Rift. I played it for 2 months and quit never to look back.
Just do what I do OP honestly. If TOR sucks then it will lose subs. My hope is all this "goto back to WoW" stuff turns into "go back to WoW or Rift"
TOR players want a very specific thing. In my opinion add in macros, add ons, x-server LFG and war fronts. A TOR fans says f that. These players were warned about trying to get everyone and their mother to play TOR that it would lead to people asking for stuff they hate.
We will see. Yes OP I do agree if TOR was competing with WoW when it launched, then it wins by a mile. TOR is competing with WoW launch in 2004, but also competiting with Rift in 2011.
Rift showed what a 2011 mmorpg should be ATLEAST launch with when it comes to features you expect swimming, macros, customizable UI.
I have made my opinion on this GOTY crap from Massively, MSNCB or Gamepsy going to TOR when Rift has gone up against WoW for 10 months and for the first time in 5 years is the only mmorpg not down to 4 servers, free to play, or 1 server and they get screwed. I consider all those sites to be completely sell outs who are pushing the hype train in hopes of getting clicks.
I'll neglect the whole fact I dislike SWTOR and feel its the definition of medocrety for now and focus on my big issue.
IT JUST CAME OUT.
Seriously, why don't they make a more obvious statement about how they got paid off my EA to say that? There is no way you can possibly jump to such a conclusion in less then half a month whether a game is good or not. Its just completely bogus that they rated it as 'game of the year' without even having time to actually be judged fairly.
Its like judging baseball batting average based off one swing. That person hits once and suddenly they are much better then everyone else, but if you took the time to judge them, they might miss the next 10 swings and suddenly they have the worst batting average. I'm not to familiar with baseball but it made the most sense to me to compare it.
Swtor being considered 'Game of the Year" to me, ignoring all factors of what the game itself actually is, is one of the biggest jokes I have ever seen.
rofl
I've played both games, and in my humble opinion, TOR is a better game in nearly every possible way. Rift certainly does some things better based soley on having been around for longer, but TOR is so much better, so much more fun, and has so much more content than Rift did at launch. To me, it's not even a comparison. Rift had less bugs at launch, and that's about as far as I can go in terms of trying to find ways it was better than TOR.
In 6 months time, I'm predicting you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone other than the most fervent Rift fans who would say that Rift is a better game. My personal opinion is that TOR is a better game NOW in terms of fun and overall gameplay. But Rift does have some advantages in terms of polish and overall content due to having been around much longer. As for GOTY, I don't have an issue with anyone saying Rift should have it over TOR, simply due to the fact that I don't think ANY MMO should get that honor after only having been out for a few weeks.
The players I've spoke to in TOR who have left Rift said pretty much just the opposite of the OP: That TOR is hands-down a better game and much more fun to play. I'd agree with that, but I'm aware that people will have different opinions as far as that goes.
I agree, and I think RIFT is better.
I also wish people would stop trying to make SWTOR look good by comparing it to WoW at WoW's release. Firstly, that was like 6 years ago. Secondly, why don't they compare it to a more recent game like RIFT?
Frankly, I think the biodrones don't compare it to games like RIFT because they are afraid of SWTOR looking inferior - which it will as you proved, OP.
I mean no offense; just stating some facts as I see them. If anyone wishes to clairfy, I will be more than happy.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Basically OP this is the thinking of TOR fans right now. There is not a damn thing you me or anyone can say to change this. Everyone is AUTOMATICALLY assuming Bioware will fix broken shit like Trion did.
We are going on 15+ days since launch and only minor stuff has been fixed if you want to call it that. Give it 6 months then compare. I have little to no faith Bioware or EA will do what they are supposed to. They assume Blizzard can wait 6 months why do they need to rush or do anything.
Here is why all this is a huge joke:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=117760
This guy just quit.look at his list
some issues that made me quit:
sharding ----Rift does not have this
broken end game (lolwhatendgame) ----Rift had pretty good end game..people just rofl'd it
criminally mediocre pvp -- pvp qq hate these guys
lack of world pvp --- these guys always qq...Rift has a little more
no combat log -- Rift had
broken guild chat --Rift had no issues here
no mods - Rift did not have
bad UI - Rift had way more
broken class mechaics not fixed (hello sniper) ---- useless qq no game is perfect here
lag - not sure here
whole planet causing a lot of people issues including me (taris) -- did not see this with Rift launch
can't even complete class quest as BH - umm not a Rift issue
broken animations - umm not sure if I saw this with Rift
delay in combat - pvp qq probably
clunky controls in combat
specific classes get horrible looking end game gear ---qq more
lack of customization end game ---- wtf is this?
no dual spec ---- Rift had for sure
respec costs outrageous (especially for healers who interchange between dps) ---Rift had for sure and dirt cheap
game feels like a stale piece of cheese after a few days of play (nothing to keep me here) --umm qq?
pvp gear too easy to attain ---- pvp qq?
ilum world pvp discourages world pvp --- exploits not being fixed and quest not being diabled
25 - 40 - 50 mount speeds feel underwhelming (especially for the cost) --- qq more
Auction house is piss poor --- Rift did not have a perfect one, but it functioned better
FORUMS DONT HAVE SEARCH FUNCTION (lol come on) ---lol come on
^ That is my summation
Those aren't "facts." Those are opinions. And the OP didn't prove that Rift is superior in any way except from his own perspective.
I was there for Rift at launch. And I was there for TOR at launch. And TOR is far superior, and much more fun, in my opinion. So it's not like I'm comparing TOR to a game that realeased 6 years ago.
And I think in another 6 months from now, you'll start to see that many people feel the same way I do.
To me, SWTOR offers a much more engaging experience.
The Story and VO certainly plays a great deal in that, but theres more to it than that. You say you feel telara feels more real, I think both worlds feel about the same. Telara has very little memorable to it. everything kind of has a genericness to it to me. there are just more sights of wonder in SWTOR. but world feel is honestly a big negative to both games.
However, SWTOR completely outdoes Rift in its NPCs. They are full of character. Rift's NPCs are DULL. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but for the most part theres just no difference in personality between most of the world's inhabitants. This adds a lot to SWTORs immersion factor and helps overcome the general dead feeling of the worlds.
The crafting in SWTOR is quite a bit deeper, even though they arent that different on the surface. It becomes a game of resource management as you level, and the reverse engineer process to get better recipes is a nice touch. Unlike Rift, i can generally make nice items when appropriate, not after Ive outleveled the stuff, assuming I do the resource management well. Also the stuff tends to be quite useful to guildies. Crafting is not a slam dunk for SWTOR, but its significantly better than Rift.
Also, and this is obviously strictly opinion, but I just find SWTOR combat more fun. Yes, i am aware there is a major issue plaguing the PvP side of things with the unresponsive abilities. It has minimal impact on PvE, and I am confident it will be fixed. My opinion may differ because of it if I encounter it often, but I dont. I just find combat to be more fun, and more visceral. the abilities are just more fun. It could be a sci-fi vs standard fantasy thing, but often times Rift fighting felt like a chore (mainly on rogues and warriors due to the combat point mechanic) or a macro spam fest.
I also prefer the flashpoints to Rift's dungeons, but again it could be a setting change thing. I like the group dialogs, because I think its fun seeing who is going to be the snarky ass and who is going to be goody two shoes.
Right now the jury is still out on WoW's PvP due to the unresponsive issue and the fact that its all hearsay for me, because ive only done a few warzones. I *know* Rift's PvP is bad, a lesser version of WoWs. I know that SWTOR has a whole panet dedicated to open world PvP that Ive heard is fun (again, hearsay though). I cant picture the PvP being any worse than Rift, so at worst it will be a draw here.
Now what does Rift do better than SWTOR? A lot of things. Its a sounder game from a technical standpoint. The op touched on the issues. The invasions are fun (the rifts bored me fast though). And of course Rift has Trion backing it who have been very quick with content.
But that leads me to a big strike against Rift, and an unknown for Bioware. I hate the direction trion has taken with Rift. Its clearly embraced the WoW route of just adding new tokens for each teir of gear. Its the never ending treadmill where your gear isnt special because it will be replaced each and every new raid. Also, every single thing Trion has added has been *exclusively* for 45+ and of absolutely no benefit to anyone under. There has been nothing added to flesh out the game world. Will SWTOR follow this path? I dont know, it very well might. And Rift could perhaps reverse this trend. Time will tell.
In summary, neither game is amazing. I just think SWTOR does enough better than Rift to overcome things like the UI and lack of macros. I find SWTOR more immersive and engaing. Most of SWTORs gameplay shortcomings are shared by Rift, and I just find SWTOR more fun. And really, thats all that matters.
the thing is that swtor "gimmick" is so much better than Rift so called gimmick. It is the story and voice over that change the game completely and yes it is a game changer.
I agree that it isn't optimal to vote on a game that just been out for 11 days. Rifts own rating was topped at that time as well, it takes some time before you see how good a MMO really is and how good support it gets.
Is TOR better than Rift? No clue as of yet, far from unlikely but I can't make that decision for at least a month.
Vanilla WoW is in many people's eyes the peak of themepark gameplay, and proof that graphics and features arent everything.
I don't understand your point. The game has been out for only two weeks now. Why wouldn't we think that they'll work to correct any bugs in the game? Are you saying that Rift had all the bugs out of their game within the first two weeks? I was there, pal....and they didn't.
You don't believe BW will fix the things that need to be fixing because you HOPE they don't. Then, in your mind, it will justify your belief that Trion, misguided as they are, is the greatest thing since sliced bread. TOR fans, on the other hand, believe that they will fix any issues because we believe they want to put out the best game possible and will do the things they are supposed to in order to make the game enjoyable. So who is right? You or me? If you didn't have an obvious agenda then I might just paint you as cynical, which is understandable these days. But I think it's a bit more than cynicism, isn't it?
And why do I have the feeling that when GW2 gets released you'll be over on their forums talking about all the features missing from that game as well? Must be a motive in there somewhere. Wonder what it could be?
This is such bullshit, it isn't even funny.
Sure Classic WoW had many things going for it, but it also happened to be a dark age that's been coloured positively due to people's general inexperience.
Give me my dual specs, my WORKING specs (like feral, balance, shadow) over broken classes, PvP that doesn't require you to be awake for two days and skip work over the hot mess that was Vanilla WoW.
People who tried classic for a few months then quit and now criticize the game for being easy or bad make me laugh.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Again, if this is so ultra important, why has Rift taken such a nosedive in activity? And im talking about before holidays/swtor release.
How is it NOT a fact that RIF had more and better features at launch?
How is it NOT a fact that Trion worked their asses off fixing bugs days after release?
How is it NOT a fact that Trion was humble enough to interact with their players on a regular basis over beta unlike the ivory tower that was BioWarEA?
Please explain.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. The game could be shit, but it is Star Wars. They have the IP which is why anyone who says it will die is a fool. Could it loss subs due to being mis treated or people who qq quit? Of course, but it is competition and good for the genre overall.
The hope is TOR does not try and do it on top of the grave of Rift. Checking the Rift server stats the hit is there, but not as major as some would have stated a month ago. Anyways watching TOR take a chunk of WoW's population and making Blizzard piss their pants is fun to watch.
this post is tl/dr sorry..
it's not game of the week, largest hype of the year, newest AAA game of the year, or any other non sense. the award was for game of the year. i honestly have no idea why a game that just came out with so many issues would recieve this title.
i'll give bioware some slack as it is the first mmorpgs they've put out (as far as i know), but in no way shape or form should it get goty.
i was waiting for swrot for a couple years, but after i saw some of the game play from early betas i started to get pretty frusterated simply due to the fact that i realised that the majority of the money was going into the the voice acting. that's not something that is make or break for me in an mmorpg. it's a cool feature for leveling, but most of the time i just skip it in other games that have it now.
this is just my opinion, but it a brand new mmorpg shouldn't get goty that has: accounts non playable/non downloadable, still no combat log, flashpoints unplayable/broken, battle grounds all mashed up into one level (with newbs having no abilities), can't even pick what freekin battle ground you want, UI is still not optimal, countless bugs, guild options are still a joke, 3:1 faction balance, laughable character creation options, lifeless cities, AH UI is awful, space combat single player mini game, awful customer service, etc...
again though, this is just my opnion, but i'd give it to Rift easy. the game has had issues but trion continues to fix issues faster then they put out content. trion also puts out content at an insane rate. every 1.5 months since launch and they statated many times that they will continue to due so with no issues. the content patches aren't just a battle ground, or a 5 man instance only. the patches have been fairly vast imho. cut/paste from wiki:
Patch 1.1- River of Souls: This update held a world event that emphasized death rifts and added a new 20-man raid, The River of Souls.
Patch 1.2- Spoils of War: This update emphasized earth and fire rifts. It also introduced crafting rifts, a 5th role, slivers, and a new 10-man raid, Gilded Prophecy.
Patch 1.3- Waves of Madness: This update emphasized water and death rifts and introduced a new 20-man raid, Hammerknell. The game also introduced guild banks and synergy crystals; a new type of item that provides a customized bonus to raid-level gear.
Patch 1.4- Legacy of the Fallen: This update emphasized life and water rifts. This update introduced PvP rifts, alternate warfront, cross-shard LFG tool, a new epic quest line, and a new 10-man raid, Drowned Halls.
Patch 1.5- Ashes of History: Features new content such as Chronicles which are entry level dungeons made for 1 to 2 players and advance the story. Veteran rewards that reward players for the amount of time they have been playing RIFT and it includes the new Planar Attunement which allows level 50 players to advance their roles further and choose what Plane they will specialize in.
Patch 1.6- Ember Isle: Features new zone called Ember Isle, two new tier 2 raid rifts, a new 10-Man raid, a new 5 man dungeon with two completely different versions, a new alternate warfront, and the unlocking of the 2nd tier planar attunement.
SWTOR may have things missing as did Rift, but Rift has had the time in 2012 to fix the issues. comparing Rift to SWTOR at this point in release is stupid imo. compare them 3 weeks into launch and we have something. to compare them for GOTY for 2011.. Rift all the way. Trion is a company that actually gives a crap about what we want as gamers, and tries its hardest to give it to us. the Mage dev is giving updates on fixes all the time. the Rift team talks with us as people in the forums, and addresses our issues in a fast manner. i have issues and call the service desk, they fix crap asap and put a smile on my face. i'm fairly burnt out on themeparks, but Rift does a great job of using my sub money to keep the game moving forward in a timely fashion.
again and again and again, imho.. Rift for GotY 2011
lmao I see what you did there
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
TOR is not taking anything; don't kid yourself.
The reported WoW sales loss is mostly from Asia (where TOR doesn't exist) . Blizzard is pissing their own pants because they don't know what they're doing wrong.
Has nothing to do with SWoWTOR
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Yeah, Blizzard is quaking in their boots, Puremallace
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3840665594
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3811455937
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3805131154
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3811491180
Bonus thread for the luls: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3811495105
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.