Originally posted by Robsolf Originally posted by Creslin321
Oh I see, so they could use the commendations to buy items and then sell the items to get credits?
Yep. But I'm pretty sure comm items are BoA, so it's only vendor trash. And if I'm guessing right on how comms are being duped, it seems to me it would take as much time to go to that trouble as it would to aquire gear the normal way.
Hard to say, the guy was getting Purple epic lock boxes or containers and if thats the case, whatever comes from them is pretty sweet or at the very least a couple thousand to a vendor as a sellback.
Is this really an issue? Because the economy in this game is not all that important as you can get most of your gear from quests anyway. So what do you need alot of credits for?
Quest gear is almost always inferior greens, often a couple levels behind you. I choose comms almost every time, and even those usually only get you blues.
Ah ok, so it is not about getting credits but rather commendations which is kind of quest currency. That is a bigger issue I would say.
I'm not sure how quickly they can dupe these comms, but if they can create tons of them very fast, then they could probably make decent money just buying comm items en masse and selling them to vendors.
And if they do that, it should be pretty easy to track them. I've never accumulated more than 30 comms from any given planet. So if somebody were to spend, say, 100 comms from a planet, they'd certainly be a suspect. Once they get a list of suspects, they can then check their other activity.
I'm not sure how quickly they can dupe these comms, but if they can create tons of them very fast, then they could probably make decent money just buying comm items en masse and selling them to vendors.
And if they do that, it should be pretty easy to track them. I've never accumulated more than 30 comms from any given planet. So if somebody were to spend, say, 100 comms from a planet, they'd certainly be a suspect. Once they get a list of suspects, they can then check their other activity.
Yep good point. They just need to act quickly. Especially if it's possible to convert the comms into credits somehow and then put them into the economy.
Oh I see, so they could use the commendations to buy items and then sell the items to get credits?
Yep. But I'm pretty sure comm items are BoA, so it's only vendor trash. And if I'm guessing right on how comms are being duped, it seems to me it would take as much time to go to that trouble as it would to aquire gear the normal way.
I'm not sure how quickly they can dupe these comms, but if they can create tons of them very fast, then they could probably make decent money just buying comm items en masse and selling them to vendors.
Guildie doing this made an autoit macro that merely did the clicking in the two positions like you see in the mail. Gets 3-4 comms per second, goes and buys stuff with comms, sells stuff, rinse repeat.
Has made a boatload... One of his alts have 10mil creds, he posted the tinypic in vent feeling safe nobody would rat on him because he was telling others how to do it.
It's just a random launch guild I joined. I'm surprised this guy is this stupid to talk about it on a vent with people he's known for 2 weeks.
Originally posted by Robsolf Originally posted by Creslin321
I'm not sure how quickly they can dupe these comms, but if they can create tons of them very fast, then they could probably make decent money just buying comm items en masse and selling them to vendors.
And if they do that, it should be pretty easy to track them. I've never accumulated more than 30 comms from any given planet. So if somebody were to spend, say, 100 comms from a planet, they'd certainly be a suspect. Once they get a list of suspects, they can then check their other activity.
Yeh, they should have something like a chatlog, which they 100% will have as they need to keep track of items incase of server issues and bugs, so they have a track of all trades, income and items....which should all be timestamped like a chatlog. It will be long as hell, but in text format, a search will solve that, then when you see a huge accumulation of wealth every second over a long period, you ban his ass.
If and when they do this is another issue, as this is still going on as we speak.
I'm not sure how quickly they can dupe these comms, but if they can create tons of them very fast, then they could probably make decent money just buying comm items en masse and selling them to vendors.
And if they do that, it should be pretty easy to track them. I've never accumulated more than 30 comms from any given planet. So if somebody were to spend, say, 100 comms from a planet, they'd certainly be a suspect. Once they get a list of suspects, they can then check their other activity.
You get quite a few commendations from Heroics, which are daily quests.
But you're right, it would be pretty easy to fine them, database search the top commendation holders and the top currency holders, then investigate their activity.
Time consuming, but manageable. The issue is, can the deal with the exploit before it becomes too widespread. There is a maximum number of people they would be willing to ban for the exploit and I suspect that it is only in the hundreds, once it goes into the thousands, they won't want to ban them and the damage would've been done.
Getting a healthy economy is one of the hardest things when you make a MMO, but they really needs to fix this fast, stuff like this can turn a games economy FUBAR fast.
Originally posted by Robsolf Originally posted by Creslin321
Oh I see, so they could use the commendations to buy items and then sell the items to get credits?
Yep. But I'm pretty sure comm items are BoA, so it's only vendor trash. And if I'm guessing right on how comms are being duped, it seems to me it would take as much time to go to that trouble as it would to aquire gear the normal way. Edit to add: seems to me the only advantage to duping is that you could load your toons with blue gear from comms rather than having to buy stuff from auction.
It would depend on how you do it. For instance, with the chest thing, it's not a big deal if a level 14 can get to a level 50 area and loot chests with level 50 because it takes some time, effort and most people are going to play the game rather than collect the gear. However, some people will setup macros using keyboards or software and you get a character standing next to a chest 24 hours a day looting it with no effort. It would be the same thing with something like this - most players are going to play the game and depending on how it works, they might get the dupes. Other players will find a way to macro it or automate it and get the dupes 24 hours a day. Those are the players that need to be banned because those are the players that are going to impact the economy.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Oh I see, so they could use the commendations to buy items and then sell the items to get credits?
Yep. But I'm pretty sure comm items are BoA, so it's only vendor trash. And if I'm guessing right on how comms are being duped, it seems to me it would take as much time to go to that trouble as it would to aquire gear the normal way.
Edit to add: seems to me the only advantage to duping is that you could load your toons with blue gear from comms rather than having to buy stuff from auction.
Afraid not: got a purple BoE light armor headpiece from a Taris purple comm box; it sold for around 20k on the GTM.
I'm not sure what the exploit was? Did you do this?
from lord jorad thul
Open mail, clicking the item, then leaving both windows open and clicking the mail and taking the item again. Rinse and repeat.
sounds like they forgot to flag a variable 'mailClicked = true'. that should be fixable, but.... not cool. the guy that programed it probably will get flamed force choked by Darth Erickson.
Is this really an issue? Because the economy in this game is not all that important as you can get most of your gear from quests anyway. So what do you need alot of credits for?
Quest gear is almost always inferior greens, often a couple levels behind you. I choose comms almost every time, and even those usually only get you blues.
Ah ok, so it is not about getting credits but rather commendations which is kind of quest currency. That is a bigger issue I would say.
Yep, it's basically a tradeoff. Most quest rewards are a choice between a comm, a box with a random green item, and some green gear designed for your class(or sometimes for your companions). Comm vendors carry blues and some custom items that cost anywhere from 8 to 14 comms, and mods, which cost from 2-7 comms.
Green items drop pretty regularly from mobs, so IMO, greens from quests are rarely necessary. Especially if you're a decent crafter and have managed to reverse engineer some blue or better recipes.
Anyway, back to the original topic... the problem is overblown, if, again, my assumption about how they do it is correct. Comms are stored in a wallet where you can't manipulate them at all, save for one circumstance which I'm not going to get into for obvious reasons. And that circumstance isn't very common. It would be pretty easy to track someone using the exploit.
If someone has 100+ comms for a given planet, they're a suspect.
If someone has a significan't amount of comms from a planet of a ignificantly higher level, they are definitely suspect.
If there's a significant amount of comm manipulation using the only way they can be manipulated, they're suspect.
I have little doubt that BW can and does track these things.
If they are going to do a rollback because of this and other exploits they may want to do it sooner rather than later so that the "real" players don't get to disappointed and leave the game. I think they should perma ban every single one of these accounts and maybe throw in some xp boosts to the community effected after a rollback. It sounds like the game is nowhere near polished yet, so would a rollback really be what will solve the problem at this point in time? People will be finding new exploits or already have, and it just hasn't hit the light of day yet. Game companies really need to start hiring some "ex" exploiters/hackers in order to stay ahead of these type of things. Sort of like the way security companies get advice from ex-cons on how the criminals go about doing there dirty work.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
People have made tens of millions off this already buying purple comm boxes and vendoring back the items on multiple accounts, but they won't do a rollback.
Less time spent making cinematics, more time...i don't know, on function.
"Are all the voice-overs cool?" "Yeah, it's like you in the movies" "Call the publisher, we roll tonight!" "Is beta done?" "Yeh, everyone liked the movies" "Sweet"
I hope nobody reposts your youtube clip. That would be bad.
{mod edit}
So now, it's a question of calling their bluff...
A...do people try this themselves before its patched and get a piece of the pie?
B...or will they play it safe in the assumption BW will trace this.
C...OR, do they do it a tiny bit at a time so it's not really traceable, but you get say twice the amount every now and again, but hope they don't track items by mail sender.
Over to you boys
Me, i'll be B, especially as i was the one who raised the exploit on SWTOR official forums rofl.
I wonder how many will be banned for this. But at least for everyone that is playing now, they will remember that they were playing when this exploit occurred Its typically an exploit that is talked about in years to come in this game
Originally posted by someforumguy I wonder how many will be banned for this. But at least for everyone that is playing now, they will remember that they were playing when this exploit occurred Its typically an exploit that is talked about in years to come in this game
Yeh and it happens in every MMO im in and usually only the most obvious dumbass gets banned out of hundreds, with the guild he was in sharing his wealth between them prior to this happening.
I think SWG actually did a rollback the once, although they did several. But the guys never got banned, just a warning.
Comments
Hard to say, the guy was getting Purple epic lock boxes or containers and if thats the case, whatever comes from them is pretty sweet or at the very least a couple thousand to a vendor as a sellback.
I'm not sure what the exploit was?
Did you do this?
from lord jorad thul
Open mail, clicking the item, then leaving both windows open and clicking the mail and taking the item again.
Rinse and repeat.
Ah ok, so it is not about getting credits but rather commendations which is kind of quest currency. That is a bigger issue I would say.
My gaming blog
And if they do that, it should be pretty easy to track them. I've never accumulated more than 30 comms from any given planet. So if somebody were to spend, say, 100 comms from a planet, they'd certainly be a suspect. Once they get a list of suspects, they can then check their other activity.
Yep good point. They just need to act quickly. Especially if it's possible to convert the comms into credits somehow and then put them into the economy.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Guildie doing this made an autoit macro that merely did the clicking in the two positions like you see in the mail. Gets 3-4 comms per second, goes and buys stuff with comms, sells stuff, rinse repeat.
Has made a boatload... One of his alts have 10mil creds, he posted the tinypic in vent feeling safe nobody would rat on him because he was telling others how to do it.
It's just a random launch guild I joined. I'm surprised this guy is this stupid to talk about it on a vent with people he's known for 2 weeks.
Yeh, they should have something like a chatlog, which they 100% will have as they need to keep track of items incase of server issues and bugs, so they have a track of all trades, income and items....which should all be timestamped like a chatlog. It will be long as hell, but in text format, a search will solve that, then when you see a huge accumulation of wealth every second over a long period, you ban his ass.
If and when they do this is another issue, as this is still going on as we speak.
You get quite a few commendations from Heroics, which are daily quests.
But you're right, it would be pretty easy to fine them, database search the top commendation holders and the top currency holders, then investigate their activity.
Time consuming, but manageable. The issue is, can the deal with the exploit before it becomes too widespread. There is a maximum number of people they would be willing to ban for the exploit and I suspect that it is only in the hundreds, once it goes into the thousands, they won't want to ban them and the damage would've been done.
Getting a healthy economy is one of the hardest things when you make a MMO, but they really needs to fix this fast, stuff like this can turn a games economy FUBAR fast.
Edit to add: seems to me the only advantage to duping is that you could load your toons with blue gear from comms rather than having to buy stuff from auction.
It would depend on how you do it. For instance, with the chest thing, it's not a big deal if a level 14 can get to a level 50 area and loot chests with level 50 because it takes some time, effort and most people are going to play the game rather than collect the gear. However, some people will setup macros using keyboards or software and you get a character standing next to a chest 24 hours a day looting it with no effort. It would be the same thing with something like this - most players are going to play the game and depending on how it works, they might get the dupes. Other players will find a way to macro it or automate it and get the dupes 24 hours a day. Those are the players that need to be banned because those are the players that are going to impact the economy.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Afraid not: got a purple BoE light armor headpiece from a Taris purple comm box; it sold for around 20k on the GTM.
My brand new bloggity blog.
sounds like they forgot to flag a variable 'mailClicked = true'.
that should be fixable, but.... not cool. the guy that programed it probably will get flamed.
Fixed that ^_^
My brand new bloggity blog.
Ouch... There have been some pretty big issues that made their way into the live game.
Maybe they should have spent more money on development of core game mechanics than they did on VO...
If itemsPerSecond > 1 then;
Delete account
End if
End
Yep, it's basically a tradeoff. Most quest rewards are a choice between a comm, a box with a random green item, and some green gear designed for your class(or sometimes for your companions). Comm vendors carry blues and some custom items that cost anywhere from 8 to 14 comms, and mods, which cost from 2-7 comms.
Green items drop pretty regularly from mobs, so IMO, greens from quests are rarely necessary. Especially if you're a decent crafter and have managed to reverse engineer some blue or better recipes.
Anyway, back to the original topic... the problem is overblown, if, again, my assumption about how they do it is correct. Comms are stored in a wallet where you can't manipulate them at all, save for one circumstance which I'm not going to get into for obvious reasons. And that circumstance isn't very common. It would be pretty easy to track someone using the exploit.
If someone has 100+ comms for a given planet, they're a suspect.
If someone has a significan't amount of comms from a planet of a ignificantly higher level, they are definitely suspect.
If there's a significant amount of comm manipulation using the only way they can be manipulated, they're suspect.
I have little doubt that BW can and does track these things.
If they are going to do a rollback because of this and other exploits they may want to do it sooner rather than later so that the "real" players don't get to disappointed and leave the game. I think they should perma ban every single one of these accounts and maybe throw in some xp boosts to the community effected after a rollback. It sounds like the game is nowhere near polished yet, so would a rollback really be what will solve the problem at this point in time? People will be finding new exploits or already have, and it just hasn't hit the light of day yet. Game companies really need to start hiring some "ex" exploiters/hackers in order to stay ahead of these type of things. Sort of like the way security companies get advice from ex-cons on how the criminals go about doing there dirty work.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
AH, I overlooked the random box items, which of course are BoE. Definitely a problem, there.
People have made tens of millions off this already buying purple comm boxes and vendoring back the items on multiple accounts, but they won't do a rollback.
There is no way they would do a rollback.
I hope nobody reposts your youtube clip. That would be bad.
Less time spent making cinematics, more time...i don't know, on function.
"Are all the voice-overs cool?"
"Yeah, it's like you in the movies"
"Call the publisher, we roll tonight!"
"Is beta done?"
"Yeh, everyone liked the movies"
"Sweet"
{mod edit}
So now, it's a question of calling their bluff...
A...do people try this themselves before its patched and get a piece of the pie?
B...or will they play it safe in the assumption BW will trace this.
C...OR, do they do it a tiny bit at a time so it's not really traceable, but you get say twice the amount every now and again, but hope they don't track items by mail sender.
Over to you boys
Me, i'll be B, especially as i was the one who raised the exploit on SWTOR official forums rofl.
I wonder how many will be banned for this. But at least for everyone that is playing now, they will remember that they were playing when this exploit occurred
Its typically an exploit that is talked about in years to come in this game 
They should do a rollback.. ban the people doing this and add an xp boost for a day or so.
Honestly they should go through logs and ban anyone who knowingly laundered the cash too.
Yeh and it happens in every MMO im in and usually only the most obvious dumbass gets banned out of hundreds, with the guild he was in sharing his wealth between them prior to this happening.
I think SWG actually did a rollback the once, although they did several. But the guys never got banned, just a warning.