Im starting to get really bored with these kind of threads.
Sexuality and nudity are part of the world, its part nature, part man, given by our creator (dont care if you believe in Him, or whatever name you use to call Him).
If you are looking to restrain how society sees this aspect of life, you should start by educating yourself, your children and your loved ones about responsability when dealing with sexual life. Sex and nudity are normal and natural, the only problem is how people deal with it when it comes to be responsible and mature.
I find extremely sad to live in a society that allows people to die of starvation, thirst, curable diseases and other atrocities, while others live in lust, and i get to read about nudity and sexuality in a gaming forum....
...you know OP, i agree with part of what you wrote, but sex and nude bodies are natural and beautiful...
...starvation and thirst are not and horror crimes are not.
Maybe you should consider registering in the "Amnesty International" website and start from there. We dont have as many subscribers as WoW has, but we can always welcome more.
Guys, while it's fine to discuss cultural context, please refrain from bashing or being overly negative about various cultures. Not really the place for that.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
I don't really care about nudity, excepting how bikini like outfits have 900000000000000 armor. I just don't really understand the purpose of animated nudity. If the game is that boring sounds like design problem.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
On another note, I can't help but feel that mmosite article was written in under an hour.
This is exactly the problem. In NA were raised to find out about such things on our own. We try to pretend things like sex, porn, and anything sexual doesn't happen or exist. The moment it happens, people freak out. They would rather have their kids swearing, murdering civilians(in games), and having no respect for anything than have them see anything sexual.
I really wish NA could evolve and realize these things are not bad nor a problem. When you pretend it doesn't happen and you try to sweep it under the rug does it become a problem.
In all fairness though, if a toon is dressed up in full plate, there would be a encumbrance penalty on them too.
Oh lord, not that old chesnut - knights clanking around and unable to get off the ground kind of thing. Knights in plate could run, jump and even do forward rolls on the ground, even though it weighted 50 or 60lbs, because they TRAINED for it for YEARS and because the armour was designed for ease of movement. Check out National Beographic's "Medieval Fight Book" documentary.
Considering those plat armors couldn't even stop arrows or crossbow bolts, they probably would offer about as much protection as a bikini against a lightning bolt or a 20 foot dragon.
The armor you wear in MMOs that allow you to take that kind of damage would probably need to be 'magically' imbued', and when you take that into consideration, then a magically imbued bikini would offer the same amount of protection as a magically imbued platemail.
In all fairness though, if a toon is dressed up in full plate, there would be a encumbrance penalty on them too.
Oh lord, not that old chesnut - knights clanking around and unable to get off the ground kind of thing. Knights in plate could run, jump and even do forward rolls on the ground, even though it weighted 50 or 60lbs, because they TRAINED for it for YEARS and because the armour was designed for ease of movement. Check out National Beographic's "Medieval Fight Book" documentary.
Considering those plat armors couldn't even stop arrows or crossbow bolts, they probably would offer about as much protection as a bikini against a lightning bolt or a 20 foot dragon.
The armor you wear in MMOs that allow you to take that kind of damage would probably need to be 'magically' imbued', and when you take that into consideration, then a magically imbued bikini would offer the same amount of protection as a magically imbued platemail.
Thats not how traditional magic systems worked. They added strength to items. So bare skin was not defended. I mean you could make up a magic system to justify bikinis but honestly I consider that to be part and parcel of the modern "mmo".
A lobby to some instances and a bunch of fan service for immature little kids. The mainstream shits on everything.
To gain even more of a mainstream application in the oversaturation of mmogs you will need eye candy. The easiest eye candy is sexy outfits with fit characters. The second easiest eye candy is massive amounts of violence. Psychologically it is easier to get addicted to sex than violence. The conclusion is use sexy outfits to sell and then use violence to sell more. Since games are about sales, and (if you think games don't need to cost a dime please don't comment me or I'll crucify you) people need to realize that you need a edge (most developers SUCK and let bugs and unimagintative features bore and drive people away) others don't.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Considering those plat armors couldn't even stop arrows or crossbow bolts, they probably would offer about as much protection as a bikini against a lightning bolt or a 20 foot dragon.
real plate armor was more than capable of stoping arrows and to an extend crosbow bolt, later on also bulets, with great master firing a bulet at the plate after it was done in order to show it's bulet proof
and for the love of god don't bring up Agincourt, it's a single battle in a war the English lost in the end (the french loss at that battle was more due to undisciplined soldiers, failure at making a decent strategy and mud than archers shooting through plate) and the french knights wtfpwned english longbowmen at Patay some 20 years latter
hell if you want another example, Battle of jaffa, third crusade, some 80 knights and 2000 genose crosbowmen vs some 7000 muslim soldiers mostly mounted archers iirc, the crusaders won, there is even the account of Richards horse being killed by all the arrows and Saladin sending him another
and the third crusade was in a time where most knights wore mail shirts, not plate armor
sorry for the off topic, but I hate it when people get some stuff from movies or tv and try to pass it as historical fact, it's how the "a knight can't get on his own horse and can't stand up when he falls down" bullshit is passed around as fact -.- damn you Mark Twain
This is one of the screenshots from the link. I know some people will get pissy, I was one of those people long ago, about how armor should be realistic to protect the character. I no longer think that way. I am okay with something like this, where it is just barely not nudity, as long as it has context. If it isn't inline with a part of the story, get it out of there. Otherwise, I actually like the idea of more adult themed MMORPG's. Throw a boob out there if you want, just make sure it has context. I could even see myself danging my private eye as I charge out of a situation where I was held against my will, such as in Kane and Lynch 2.
All thats missing is a nude man with a sock over his penis then your all set right? Thats not a screenshot of any video game I want to play, if I wanted to watch pron id watch pron I dont want it mixed in with my game. Why not just stick a couple of boob shots in Popular Science while your at it.? You know mix up some soft porn with your science whats the big deal? Do you get it now?
I personally love sex so it never bothers me. I'm at a loss to answer your question. That said, I definitely find it ridiculous though and sometimes, it makes it hard to take things seriously.
I do take issue with the "we want more armour because it's realistic!" argument. Even if you're wearing 10 suits of armour covering everything from your teeth to your toes, that big ass dragon 10 times you is still going to swat you for the gnat that you are. So that argument ought to go out the window.
And while I do see some issues with the alleged objectification of women, I get annoyed when these people bleat that men aren't objectified... Psst, we are. It's just that our objectification is slightly different than yours... you ladies get to look all sultry and big-breasted... we men looked roided up. That said, I am all for men in thongs. That's what I adored about AoC.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I personally love sex so it never bothers me. I'm at a loss to answer your question. That said, I definitely find it ridiculous though and sometimes, it makes it hard to take things seriously.
I do take issue with the "we want more armour because it's realistic!" argument. Even if you're wearing 10 suits of armour covering everything from your teeth to your toes, that big ass dragon 10 times you is still going to swat you for the gnat that you are. So that argument ought to go out the window.
And while I do see some issues with the alleged objectification of women, I get annoyed when these people bleat that men aren't objectified... Psst, we are. It's just that our objectification is slightly different than yours... you ladies get to look all sultry and big-breasted... we men looked roided up. That said, I am all for men in thongs. That's what I adored about AoC.
I personally love sex so it never bothers me. I'm at a loss to answer your question. That said, I definitely find it ridiculous though and sometimes, it makes it hard to take things seriously.
I do take issue with the "we want more armour because it's realistic!" argument. Even if you're wearing 10 suits of armour covering everything from your teeth to your toes, that big ass dragon 10 times you is still going to swat you for the gnat that you are. So that argument ought to go out the window.
And while I do see some issues with the alleged objectification of women, I get annoyed when these people bleat that men aren't objectified... Psst, we are. It's just that our objectification is slightly different than yours... you ladies get to look all sultry and big-breasted... we men looked roided up. That said, I am all for men in thongs. That's what I adored about AoC.
WooHoo...Sexy!!!!
How does loving sex play fit into your choice of video games, I mean really. if they made a food MMO do you think that everyone that likes to eat would play it? No you are not unique we all like sex, some just dont need it smeared all over their video game to make it playable.
How does loving sex play fit into your choice of video games, I mean really.
It doesn't; you're taking things out of context and completely misconstruing what I said.
(In case it's unclear, I was answering the OP's original question. Sex, nudity, provocation don't offend me in any way so if it's in a game, it doesn't matter to me.)
No you are not unique we all like sex, some just dont need it smeared all over their video game to make it playable.
Frankly, you sound overly angry about this. I'm guessing you're a bit of a prude.
Guess what, it's okay to be a prude.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Another comment on the sex vs violence bit that I forgot to make earlier:
If some malevolent person/group/entity is trying to conquer/destroy the world and you have to kill it to stop it, then that intrinsically involves some violence. That doesn't necessarily mean over the top blood squirting everywhere and body parts falling off violence. But it does mean one character whacking another with a sword, shooting with a gun, or whatever. It's intrinsic in the nature of the game. Sexuality isn't intrinsic to the nature of most games.
Here is a video of Kabod's Destructive armor game mechanic. Does this make it more "realistic"? lol
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Everyone could be running naked in Vindictus and I would still play the game, because the combat is miles ahead of the Western games atm. Games like SWTOR / WoW / EQ / GW2, etc, please........get real......you are 10 years behind in gameplay.
Until the West stops making sitting duck games I refuse to play them.
People who act as if this only happens in Eastern games are also hypocrites.
This is bioshock infinite....
What's even more hypocritical is that that developer then went and complained that people actually noticed it:
"In terms of her body type, I think certainly people on the Internet have spent way more time thinking about Elizabeth's chest than I have. It's something I've barely thought about.
It's disappointing when [Elizabeth's appearance] becomes a focus for conversation because that was never my intent and it's sort of a disincentive - I'd much rather talk about what she's going through as a person, but whatever, they have the right to shout out whatever they want," Levine continued.
^^^^^^^^^ biggest hypocrite ever
You give her giant breasts that can pop out of ther dress at any second now and you're "surprised people on the internet thought about" or even made a conversation about her appearance..really?? Does it say hypocrite on your forehead??
While I'm ranting, you realise Everquest had a place with hookers right?
Never noticed that room in Neriak with the hookers dancing on the table in that bar and the private rooms in the back?
You could even give them money and they would dance, that's right, they took that out after some people complained.
At least in the East they're not lying about why they do it.
People who act as if this only happens in Eastern games are also hypocrites.
This is bioshock infinite....
What's even more hypocritical is that that developer then went and complained that people actually noticed it:
"In terms of her body type, I think certainly people on the Internet have spent way more time thinking about Elizabeth's chest than I have. It's something I've barely thought about.
It's disappointing when [Elizabeth's appearance] becomes a focus for conversation because that was never my intent and it's sort of a disincentive - I'd much rather talk about what she's going through as a person, but whatever, they have the right to shout out whatever they want," Levine continued.
^^^^^^^^^ biggest hypocrite ever
You give her giant breasts that can pop out of ther dress at any second now and you're "surprised people on the internet thought about" or even made a conversation about her appearance..really?? Does it say hypocrite on your forehead??
While I'm ranting, you realise Everquest had a place with hookers right?
Never noticed that room in Neriak with the hookers dancing on the table in that bar and the private rooms in the back?
You could even give them money and they would dance, that's right, they took that out after some people complained.
At least in the East they're not lying about why they do it.
Your entire post just justified most of our points: Western society is scared of boobs. And honestly, I am confused why because our porn industry is huge.
And by the way, maybe he just wanted to make his character look sexy. I modded my Oblivion to anime Bleach style but also added in giant boobs, the only thing people noticed were the boobs, not the new weawpons or combat styles which was what I focussed on after I finished the boobs.
I've been playing Saints Row The Third and having a blast. The game has some outrageous antics in it and is the most sexualized game I've ever played. You kill people with nutshots, beat people up with a gigantic purple dildo-bat, and even some missions have you driving to pick up hookers and return them to their pimp. Oddly enough, they don't allow nudity in the game.
I am an adult, and I can appreciate that people want to censor things from children, but censoring things from me is just an insult. Why is there such a problem with this is the first place? Why is it that I can kill a person with a chainsaw but nudity is off limits?
I would really like to see an MMO that is made for adults. A game that is intended to be played by people over the age of 18. A game that has full blown graphic violence (when you shoot someone in the head, leave a hole and helluva mess on the other side) A game that isn't afraid of dealing with topics that are taboo. A game that adults play because they have the right to decide what they want to see. A game that (and this is the BIG reason) doesn't have a bunch of kids running around being typical annoying kids with unbridled hormones and a complete lack of respect.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I'm all for bikini plate and hourglass bodies, specially when these have huge breasts and big butts. When I play WoW, I prefer Draenei and Blood Elves (females) because of how sexy they look. Age of Conan won't leave my hard drive anytime soon because of their realistic and sexy (female) models. And thank you very much for the link, Mr. OP, because I'm downloading right now Kabod Online (and cursing at Vindictus for their IP block).
Comments
Im starting to get really bored with these kind of threads.
Sexuality and nudity are part of the world, its part nature, part man, given by our creator (dont care if you believe in Him, or whatever name you use to call Him).
If you are looking to restrain how society sees this aspect of life, you should start by educating yourself, your children and your loved ones about responsability when dealing with sexual life. Sex and nudity are normal and natural, the only problem is how people deal with it when it comes to be responsible and mature.
I find extremely sad to live in a society that allows people to die of starvation, thirst, curable diseases and other atrocities, while others live in lust, and i get to read about nudity and sexuality in a gaming forum....
...you know OP, i agree with part of what you wrote, but sex and nude bodies are natural and beautiful...
...starvation and thirst are not and horror crimes are not.
Maybe you should consider registering in the "Amnesty International" website and start from there. We dont have as many subscribers as WoW has, but we can always welcome more.
Guys, while it's fine to discuss cultural context, please refrain from bashing or being overly negative about various cultures. Not really the place for that.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
Sometimes I worry about NA's skewed priorities regarded sex and violence. But then I realize how much worse things could be. Now and then, a little moderation doesn't hurt.
On another note, I can't help but feel that mmosite article was written in under an hour.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
I don't really care about nudity, excepting how bikini like outfits have 900000000000000 armor. I just don't really understand the purpose of animated nudity. If the game is that boring sounds like design problem.
Umm....Eastern mmos have always had those kinds of styles though..Look at ragnarok online n stuff like that.
Theyre regular ecchi stuff. I know queens blade is borderline porn. Remember seeing one lady who shoots acid out of her bewbies n stuff really weird.
If you havent seen panty shots in anime/manga/manghwa then...o.O yknoe..Thats kinda weird theres something wrong with that.
If you havent then why not go look at some regular korean comics and japanese comics.
Fan service is abundant! like umm...Arachnid, Jackals, *forgot the name* lightning fist guy, naruto, etc..
But to sum it all up I give you...
H G RAZOR RAMON SUMITANI!
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
This is exactly the problem. In NA were raised to find out about such things on our own. We try to pretend things like sex, porn, and anything sexual doesn't happen or exist. The moment it happens, people freak out. They would rather have their kids swearing, murdering civilians(in games), and having no respect for anything than have them see anything sexual.
I really wish NA could evolve and realize these things are not bad nor a problem. When you pretend it doesn't happen and you try to sweep it under the rug does it become a problem.
Considering those plat armors couldn't even stop arrows or crossbow bolts, they probably would offer about as much protection as a bikini against a lightning bolt or a 20 foot dragon.
The armor you wear in MMOs that allow you to take that kind of damage would probably need to be 'magically' imbued', and when you take that into consideration, then a magically imbued bikini would offer the same amount of protection as a magically imbued platemail.
Thats not how traditional magic systems worked. They added strength to items. So bare skin was not defended. I mean you could make up a magic system to justify bikinis but honestly I consider that to be part and parcel of the modern "mmo".
A lobby to some instances and a bunch of fan service for immature little kids. The mainstream shits on everything.
To gain even more of a mainstream application in the oversaturation of mmogs you will need eye candy. The easiest eye candy is sexy outfits with fit characters. The second easiest eye candy is massive amounts of violence. Psychologically it is easier to get addicted to sex than violence. The conclusion is use sexy outfits to sell and then use violence to sell more. Since games are about sales, and (if you think games don't need to cost a dime please don't comment me or I'll crucify you) people need to realize that you need a edge (most developers SUCK and let bugs and unimagintative features bore and drive people away) others don't.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
real plate armor was more than capable of stoping arrows and to an extend crosbow bolt, later on also bulets, with great master firing a bulet at the plate after it was done in order to show it's bulet proof
and for the love of god don't bring up Agincourt, it's a single battle in a war the English lost in the end (the french loss at that battle was more due to undisciplined soldiers, failure at making a decent strategy and mud than archers shooting through plate) and the french knights wtfpwned english longbowmen at Patay some 20 years latter
hell if you want another example, Battle of jaffa, third crusade, some 80 knights and 2000 genose crosbowmen vs some 7000 muslim soldiers mostly mounted archers iirc, the crusaders won, there is even the account of Richards horse being killed by all the arrows and Saladin sending him another
and the third crusade was in a time where most knights wore mail shirts, not plate armor
sorry for the off topic, but I hate it when people get some stuff from movies or tv and try to pass it as historical fact, it's how the "a knight can't get on his own horse and can't stand up when he falls down" bullshit is passed around as fact -.- damn you Mark Twain
All thats missing is a nude man with a sock over his penis then your all set right? Thats not a screenshot of any video game I want to play, if I wanted to watch pron id watch pron I dont want it mixed in with my game. Why not just stick a couple of boob shots in Popular Science while your at it.? You know mix up some soft porn with your science whats the big deal? Do you get it now?
I personally love sex so it never bothers me. I'm at a loss to answer your question. That said, I definitely find it ridiculous though and sometimes, it makes it hard to take things seriously.
I do take issue with the "we want more armour because it's realistic!" argument. Even if you're wearing 10 suits of armour covering everything from your teeth to your toes, that big ass dragon 10 times you is still going to swat you for the gnat that you are. So that argument ought to go out the window.
And while I do see some issues with the alleged objectification of women, I get annoyed when these people bleat that men aren't objectified... Psst, we are. It's just that our objectification is slightly different than yours... you ladies get to look all sultry and big-breasted... we men looked roided up. That said, I am all for men in thongs. That's what I adored about AoC.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
I want to see naked dudes and cock-n-balls...Until then...No Mas!!!!!
WooHoo...Sexy!!!!
How does loving sex play fit into your choice of video games, I mean really. if they made a food MMO do you think that everyone that likes to eat would play it? No you are not unique we all like sex, some just dont need it smeared all over their video game to make it playable.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
Another comment on the sex vs violence bit that I forgot to make earlier:
If some malevolent person/group/entity is trying to conquer/destroy the world and you have to kill it to stop it, then that intrinsically involves some violence. That doesn't necessarily mean over the top blood squirting everywhere and body parts falling off violence. But it does mean one character whacking another with a sword, shooting with a gun, or whatever. It's intrinsic in the nature of the game. Sexuality isn't intrinsic to the nature of most games.
Here is a video of Kabod's Destructive armor game mechanic. Does this make it more "realistic"? lol
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I don't care.
Everyone could be running naked in Vindictus and I would still play the game, because the combat is miles ahead of the Western games atm. Games like SWTOR / WoW / EQ / GW2, etc, please........get real......you are 10 years behind in gameplay.
Until the West stops making sitting duck games I refuse to play them.
My one exception to this rule:
Mirror's Edge
People who act as if this only happens in Eastern games are also hypocrites.
This is bioshock infinite....
What's even more hypocritical is that that developer then went and complained that people actually noticed it:
"In terms of her body type, I think certainly people on the Internet have spent way more time thinking about Elizabeth's chest than I have. It's something I've barely thought about.
It's disappointing when [Elizabeth's appearance] becomes a focus for conversation because that was never my intent and it's sort of a disincentive - I'd much rather talk about what she's going through as a person, but whatever, they have the right to shout out whatever they want," Levine continued.
^^^^^^^^^ biggest hypocrite ever
You give her giant breasts that can pop out of ther dress at any second now and you're "surprised people on the internet thought about" or even made a conversation about her appearance..really?? Does it say hypocrite on your forehead??
While I'm ranting, you realise Everquest had a place with hookers right?
Never noticed that room in Neriak with the hookers dancing on the table in that bar and the private rooms in the back?
You could even give them money and they would dance, that's right, they took that out after some people complained.
At least in the East they're not lying about why they do it.
Your entire post just justified most of our points: Western society is scared of boobs. And honestly, I am confused why because our porn industry is huge.
And by the way, maybe he just wanted to make his character look sexy. I modded my Oblivion to anime Bleach style but also added in giant boobs, the only thing people noticed were the boobs, not the new weawpons or combat styles which was what I focussed on after I finished the boobs.
How do you know he's not telling the truth?
I've been playing Saints Row The Third and having a blast. The game has some outrageous antics in it and is the most sexualized game I've ever played. You kill people with nutshots, beat people up with a gigantic purple dildo-bat, and even some missions have you driving to pick up hookers and return them to their pimp. Oddly enough, they don't allow nudity in the game.
I am an adult, and I can appreciate that people want to censor things from children, but censoring things from me is just an insult. Why is there such a problem with this is the first place? Why is it that I can kill a person with a chainsaw but nudity is off limits?
I would really like to see an MMO that is made for adults. A game that is intended to be played by people over the age of 18. A game that has full blown graphic violence (when you shoot someone in the head, leave a hole and helluva mess on the other side) A game that isn't afraid of dealing with topics that are taboo. A game that adults play because they have the right to decide what they want to see. A game that (and this is the BIG reason) doesn't have a bunch of kids running around being typical annoying kids with unbridled hormones and a complete lack of respect.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I'm all for bikini plate and hourglass bodies, specially when these have huge breasts and big butts. When I play WoW, I prefer Draenei and Blood Elves (females) because of how sexy they look. Age of Conan won't leave my hard drive anytime soon because of their realistic and sexy (female) models. And thank you very much for the link, Mr. OP, because I'm downloading right now Kabod Online (and cursing at Vindictus for their IP block).
Man thats quiet a feature they got there! damn. I'm like really rolling on the floor now.
Ye western game also have that, like totally, look at Oblivion for ex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGdMlPJi7b4&feature=related
Skyrim is next on the list...