i prefer the older harder model which took months an years to build up. nowadays where a games peaks in 1 or 2 months to just take a nose dive just doesnt seem like a good model esp if you like the ip
You sound entirely like an adolecent who wants things, but doesn't feel he has to put in the neccessary time, effort, energy, determination, perserverence, etc.. to accomplish, or even attempt anything, because of the possibility of failing and not recieving an award!
In an entertainment product? Sure it is reasonable to expect a person to spend months & years to accomplish his career, but a GAME?
A few hours of learning the mechanics is probably the right balance for most busy people. Surely you need to spend weeks to learn hard mode fights, but that is probably the extreme end of what people want in a GAME.
There it is^^... you play MMORPG's like you watch television, you want to be entertained!
The premis and ideology of roleplaying games is that your dropped off into an unknown world and have to fend for yourself (ie: solve the problems & mysteries). If I want to play something for entertainment, I would play an arcade game, where nothing matters.
(Does one play chess for fun, for entertainment, or for sport..?)
So many people just don't understand the purpose of RPGs. They claim that we are trying to drag MMORPGs and define them our way, but we wouldn't have to if they didn't try to change it first.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
The past 8 years of MMORPG's released would disagree with you.
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
You sound entirely like an adolecent who wants things, but doesn't feel he has to put in the neccessary time, effort, energy, determination, perserverence, etc.. to accomplish, or even attempt anything, because of the possibility of failing and not recieving an award!
In an entertainment product? Sure it is reasonable to expect a person to spend months & years to accomplish his career, but a GAME?
A few hours of learning the mechanics is probably the right balance for most busy people. Surely you need to spend weeks to learn hard mode fights, but that is probably the extreme end of what people want in a GAME.
There it is^^... you play MMORPG's like you watch television, you want to be entertained!
The premis and ideology of roleplaying games is that your dropped off into an unknown world and have to fend for yourself (ie: solve the problems & mysteries). If I want to play something for entertainment, I would play an arcade game, where nothing matters.
(Does one play chess for fun, for entertainment, or for sport..?)
So many people just don't understand the purpose of RPGs. They claim that we are trying to drag MMORPGs and define them our way, but we wouldn't have to if they didn't try to change it first.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
The past 8 years of MMORPG's released would disagree with you.
MMORPGs has always and will forever be games...
90% of the "MMORPGs" on this site are just corpgs or lobby based games. I'm not having this whole argument again. I will agree to disagree.
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
i prefer the older harder model which took months an years to build up. nowadays where a games peaks in 1 or 2 months to just take a nose dive just doesnt seem like a good model esp if you like the ip
At this point I don't think any new MMORPG release will be a your savior, you guys are a hard audiance to please. Anything upcoming may look promising really comes down to when it finally gets released that being TSW, GW2, Archage, Tera. ect. Ideas of these games look great on paper and look great on screenshots via gameplay videos, you guys will not be satisfied with it. All you need is a couple things wrong with it, enough to hate and complain about it.
Ever think maybe your just too PRO for them now? What you feel as completly easy maybe hard for some. Lets be honest many of you who have played MMOs pretty much know what to expect you are already familar, but at the same time hoping for something new.
Knowing the people in my life who play WoW are just not that indepth in the game, whether it's 5mans, raids, mechanics, enchants, gearing themsleves, the list goes on. This can be a bit overwhelming for some folks. But you and I can say that's just so fucking easy.
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
Obviously you aren't a developer and don't understand the difference bewteen making a game that cater's 10k verses millions.
Here's an idea, get a job into the game developing industry and see this alot clearer. See why there have been tons more themeparks than sandboxes. See how many of the sandboxes are sucessful out of the few that have been made...
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
Obviously you aren't a developer and don't understand the difference bewteen making a game that cater's 10k verses millions.
Here's an idea, get a job into the game developing industry and see this alot clearer. See why there have been tons more themeparks than sandboxes. See how many of the sandboxes are sucessful out of the few that have been made...
You mean as opposed to all the successful WoW-based themeparks?
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
Obviously you aren't a developer and don't understand the difference bewteen making a game that cater's 10k verses millions.
Here's an idea, get a job into the game developing industry and see this alot clearer. See why there have been tons more themeparks than sandboxes. See how many of the sandboxes are sucessful out of the few that have been made...
Sandbox players know damn well the different between a game that caters to 10k and millions. Its shoved in our faces every day by devs and casuals and companies and industry people.
I am a developer and I make games that people actually play and I do community devving on many others.
I and almost any other hardcore sandbox player know why themeparks are popular and sandboxes aren't. We just don't care. If I want to play an already made sandbox I play ATITD or EvE.
No one's vision is clouded. We understand the state of affairs, we are just sad that it is that way. Although it doesn't have to be. And plenty of us are working on fixing it.
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
Obviously you aren't a developer and don't understand the difference bewteen making a game that cater's 10k verses millions.
Here's an idea, get a job into the game developing industry and see this alot clearer. See why there have been tons more themeparks than sandboxes. See how many of the sandboxes are sucessful out of the few that have been made...
Obviously you aren't a gamer and don't understand the difference between making a good game that 10k people will play for 8 years verses millions that will play for a month.
Here's and idea, quit your job and play a game that you used to have to dedicate half your life to if you wanted to be in the top 5% of your server, and you'll understand why there is so much gd rage on these forums.
Your comment just irks the hell out of me cause it's exactly what is wrong with the current MMORPG's. I'm not an idiot or a troll that doesn't understand simple economics, but what developers are failing to do is reach for 10-100k hardcore subscribers that will play their game for the better part of a decade, and instead want millions to buy their crappy games and keep them for a couple months.
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
Obviously you aren't a developer and don't understand the difference bewteen making a game that cater's 10k verses millions.
Here's an idea, get a job into the game developing industry and see this alot clearer. See why there have been tons more themeparks than sandboxes. See how many of the sandboxes are sucessful out of the few that have been made...
Obviously you aren't a gamer and don't understand the difference between making a good game that 10k people will play for 8 years verses millions that will play for a month.
Here's and idea, quit your job and play a game that you used to have to dedicate half your life to if you wanted to be in the top 5% of your server, and you'll understand why there is so much gd rage on these forums.
Your comment just irks the hell out of me cause it's exactly what is wrong with the current MMORPG's. I'm not an idiot or a troll that doesn't understand simple economics, but what developers are failing to do is reach for 10-100k hardcore subscribers that will play their game for the better part of a decade, and instead want millions to buy their crappy games and keep them for a couple months.
Dwarf Fortress would like a word with bossalinie. That game is played for years and players do all sorts of cool stuff and Tarn runs it off donations.
Its really not that hard to please though i have stated many times what i am looking for. The problem is it is not being produced and instead is being pushed out by these "3 month chumps". I had a chance with vanguard just in time for them to make leveling faster which was the opposite of what i was looking for. I think if a company did an updated old school game you would the people who like it gone there and not here and the people left behind and get back to downing each other games.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
You should drop the G in MMORPG and go play MMORPLife.
RPG serves as a form of escapism, not replacement.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
You should drop the G in MMORPG and go play MMORPLife.
RPG serves as a form of escapism, not replacement.
They still have game features, but gamification is not their primary goal.
To me it was very much the other way around, I love being able to solo in a mmo, mmo should never mean forced to group, I just like the roleplay style of the lone hero against the odds, it is a challenge, in EQ I played my mage necro and druid, all three could solo.
Does this mean I did not have friends or a social enjoyment to the game?
No
I made some amazing friends in EQ, met alot while sitting waiting for a boat at the docks , we talked we spent time together and yes I grouped with them sometimes.
But who is more hardcore ? the guy part of a group who needs to be told what to do and lead around or the guy that managed to solo that dungeon while you needed 3 friends to help you.
People say "go play solo games then" but they really do not get it, there is more to a comunity in an mmo than raids and dungeons, I have gotten to know some amazing people in mmo's and 50% of them I never grouped with.
In eve as part of the CFC I regularly go out in groups of 30-1200 people its a whole lot of fun, on the other hand I can slip into my alt char get in a merlin or rifter and go looking for a fight solo in lowsec and it is the solo that takes more effort more intelligence and spacial awareness, in a fleet of 240 all I have to do is listen to the fc and press buttons when needed, when solo it is all on me.
I also like to run my own groups which is a different form of challenge.
not everyone has this attitude, however I do say it very harshly because this comes with experiance. Everyone can become a freakin idiot and come to ruin your day, when i do dungeon's in WoW, some dickhead got to pull and leave and try to get us wiped but they sometimes was not successful. I used to raid with a guild who is friendly and all until I started talking to a female gamer more often and people started calling me a stalker (to the point where the guild master is starting to believe it, no matter how many times I told him that I am not stalking). I left that guild after soo many cummalated action put against me from pulling a group when it's not my fault, to try to help out the group in morality but told to shut up, to help clear the trash during dragonsoul when about to face ultraxion, and the tank did not taunt or draw most of them away from me and I end up dying. I believe some raiding members in my former guild is too lazy and won't do the job properly, like they are high or half-baked, sleepy or do not react fast enough. My guild never really finished off ragnoros yet on firelands, and will probably take a long time to get pass Ultraxion and/or other bosses.
The past 8 years of MMORPG's released would disagree with you.
MMORPGs has always and will forever be games...
I'd say the entire MMORPG genre disagrees.
The whole reason that characters ever took a long time to level up in these games in the beginning was because of artificial roadblocks put in place by the devs to keep people paying and playing for longer and longer periods of time. Older games weren't harder. They were just deliberately tedious so the devs could squeeze another $15 out of you for each additional month of play. Corpse runs, harsh death penalties, masochistic leveling curves, etc. -- these were nothing more than artificial limits placed on characters to keep players around. That's it.
At the end of the day, these are GAMES. I don't need or want a video game that becomes a second job in order to advance. Screw that. If I wanted a second job that kept me glued to my computer, I'd get one. At least then I'd get paid and some kind of real benefit for spending hours and days and weeks staring at a monitor and keyboard.
To me it was very much the other way around, I love being able to solo in a mmo, mmo should never mean forced to group, I just like the roleplay style of the lone hero against the odds, it is a challenge, in EQ I played my mage necro and druid, all three could solo.
Thats all well and good, but would you agree there's room in the industry for the opposite as well? After all not every gamer is into the same thing.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
You should drop the G in MMORPG and go play MMORPLife.
RPG serves as a form of escapism, not replacement.
They still have game features, but gamification is not their primary goal.
Says you???
Obviously you are wrong because MMORPGs are marketed as GAMES, in the video GAME section and sold as GAMES.
You sound entirely like an adolecent who wants things, but doesn't feel he has to put in the neccessary time, effort, energy, determination, perserverence, etc.. to accomplish, or even attempt anything, because of the possibility of failing and not recieving an award!
In an entertainment product? Sure it is reasonable to expect a person to spend months & years to accomplish his career, but a GAME?
A few hours of learning the mechanics is probably the right balance for most busy people. Surely you need to spend weeks to learn hard mode fights, but that is probably the extreme end of what people want in a GAME.
There it is^^... you play MMORPG's like you watch television, you want to be entertained!
The premis and ideology of roleplaying games is that your dropped off into an unknown world and have to fend for yourself (ie: solve the problems & mysteries). If I want to play something for entertainment, I would play an arcade game, where nothing matters.
(Does one play chess for fun, for entertainment, or for sport..?)
So many people just don't understand the purpose of RPGs. They claim that we are trying to drag MMORPGs and define them our way, but we wouldn't have to if they didn't try to change it first.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
LOL .. "understand the purpose of RPGs"??? G = GAME. It is marketed as games, sold as games, and people consumer them as games.
Swim like duck, quake like a duck, .. well you know the saying.
You can shout as loud as you can about how you think MMORPGs have higher purposes ... but heck, i will just ignore all that and treat it as an entertainment product and spend my money accordingly. I am a feeling most players are more like me, than you.
You sound entirely like an adolecent who wants things, but doesn't feel he has to put in the neccessary time, effort, energy, determination, perserverence, etc.. to accomplish, or even attempt anything, because of the possibility of failing and not recieving an award!
In an entertainment product? Sure it is reasonable to expect a person to spend months & years to accomplish his career, but a GAME?
A few hours of learning the mechanics is probably the right balance for most busy people. Surely you need to spend weeks to learn hard mode fights, but that is probably the extreme end of what people want in a GAME.
There it is^^... you play MMORPG's like you watch television, you want to be entertained!
The premis and ideology of roleplaying games is that your dropped off into an unknown world and have to fend for yourself (ie: solve the problems & mysteries). If I want to play something for entertainment, I would play an arcade game, where nothing matters.
(Does one play chess for fun, for entertainment, or for sport..?)
So many people just don't understand the purpose of RPGs. They claim that we are trying to drag MMORPGs and define them our way, but we wouldn't have to if they didn't try to change it first.
MMORPGs are not games or toys, they are worlds and you have to put in time to train your character. Thats another thing, RPGs are about the character's skill, not the players.
LOL .. "understand the purpose of RPGs"??? G = GAME. It is marketed as games, sold as games, and people consumer them as games.
Swim like duck, quake like a duck, .. well you know the saying.
You can shout as loud as you can about how you think MMORPGs have higher purposes ... but heck, i will just ignore all that and treat it as an entertainment product and spend my money accordingly. I am a feeling most players are more like me, than you.
Different people play different types of games for different reasons. People are entertained by different things. Thats why there are games that make you think, and games that make you mash buttons like a rabid spider monkey.
Some people play MMOs for the escapism. To get away from RL for a moment and explore another world. The "effort" that you might not like gives other people a sense of accomplishment that they find entertaining. Its the same reason some people like achivements/trophies in popular console games while others don't.
Other people just like to jump right in and fight with other players, or even just to mess around with no direct goal.
So why does one group feel as though ALL games have to conform to their own needs? Some people are just selfish I guess. Its that "stop liking what I dont like" mentality.
Personally I'd rather play a nice game of Risk than Chutes & Ladders...but I wont deny anyone C&L.
LOL .. "understand the purpose of RPGs"??? G = GAME. It is marketed as games, sold as games, and people consumer them as games.
Swim like duck, quake like a duck, .. well you know the saying.
You can shout as loud as you can about how you think MMORPGs have higher purposes ... but heck, i will just ignore all that and treat it as an entertainment product and spend my money accordingly. I am a feeling most players are more like me, than you.
Your right G does equal game, but no where in it does it mean that a game has to be easy, and instant gratification. Lets look at another form of a Game. Take a look at basketball (the real thing). Its a game. But it takes hard work and dedication to be good at it. The state that the mmo genre is in is the equivelent of everybody walking onto a BB court and being as good as Jodan w/o any effort. At that point there is no point to the game at all, its just a worthless mess. To be good at a game, any form of game, you should have to put time effort and dedication to be good at the game.
Only in the MMO genre is this feeling of self entitlement so high. just look at COD: MW3. A person that plays that game 8 hours a every day should be better than a person that plays the game 8 hours a week. Its common sense. But yet in an MMO a person that plays 8 hours a week has to be equal to the person who plays 8 hours a day. Otherwise its a great travesty.
Edit: If i played MW3 8 hours a week, i went head to head with a person that played 56 hours a week, i consider it a overwhelming success if I killed him 1 out of 10 times. Same goes for MMO's I expect the guy that plays 56 hours a week to have a lot more stuff than me.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
LOL .. "understand the purpose of RPGs"??? G = GAME. It is marketed as games, sold as games, and people consumer them as games.
Swim like duck, quake like a duck, .. well you know the saying.
You can shout as loud as you can about how you think MMORPGs have higher purposes ... but heck, i will just ignore all that and treat it as an entertainment product and spend my money accordingly. I am a feeling most players are more like me, than you.
Your right G does equal game, but no where in it does it mean that a game has to be easy, and instant gratification. Lets look at another form of a Game. Take a look at basketball (the real thing). Its a game. But it takes hard work and dedication to be good at it. The state that the mmo genre is in is the equivelent of everybody walking onto a BB court and being as good as Jodan w/o any effort. At that point there is no point to the game at all, its just a worthless mess. To be good at a game, any form of game, you should have to put time effort and dedication to be good at the game.
Only in the MMO genre is this feeling of self entitlement so high. just look at COD: MW3. A person that plays that game 8 hours a every day should be better than a person that plays the game 8 hours a week. Its common sense. But yet in an MMO a person that plays 8 hours a week has to be equal to the person who plays 8 hours a day. Otherwise its a great travesty.
Good thing thats is not whats happening.
No where does it say a game has to be tedious.
If less than 1% of the population is beating the hardest content in WoW (wow used just because of the number of people playing) than that would mean that by a huge margin (99%) are not as good as Jordan (to use the basketball analogy). And so your agument is moot. The average mmo gamer is not being the best, the highest or having the best gear, just like the average joe is not jordan. The average gamers still has to put in his time, gain his understanding, develop his character... just like Jordan in your analogy.
There is not game on the market that I have seen where the average gamer has the best gear or has beaten the hardest content.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
If less than 1% of the population is beating the hardest content in WoW (wow used just because of the number of people playing) than that would mean that by a huge margin (99%) are not as good as Jordan (to use the basketball analogy). And so your agument is moot. The average mmo gamer is not being the best, the highest or having the best gear, just like the average joe is not jordan. The average gamers still has to put in his time, gain his understanding, develop his character... just like Jordan in your analogy.
There is not game on the market that I have seen where the average gamer has the best gear or has beaten the hardest content.
Venge
What exactly is tedious?
Thats so vague.
In sports terms tedious is a term used by the lazy to justify not being dedicated. Practise is so tedious why would you want to do it to be good at your craft.
In video games it could be used in the exact same way.
Tedious, grink, timesink, all terms that the self entitlists use. I cant play a game hardcore, but I unsterand the importance of having content that requires dedication to get through. Even if that means I cant obtain it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Comments
You forgot,
Britney Spears vs Jessica Simpson
Wham vs The Culture Club
George Michael vs Boy George
i prefer the older harder model which took months an years to build up. nowadays where a games peaks in 1 or 2 months to just take a nose dive just doesnt seem like a good model esp if you like the ip
The past 8 years of MMORPG's released would disagree with you.
MMORPGs has always and will forever be games...
I concur with the sentiment that modern MMORPG's are more like television and arcade games. These forms of entertainment are in no way bad, but not what I grew up expecting a MMORPG to be. I want my MMORPG to be a alternate world I live in then my own. Lots of people say they don't want their MMORPG to be a second job, but in my case I prefer them that way. It's a world I can get lost in and I feel the whole gammit of emotions instead of just the euphoria of being rewarded.
I went through a whole lot of shit when I was training for Navy specwar, and when I look back on it generally the days that sucked the most I remember as the fondest. It taught me about what I could accomplish and made the end result all the more valuable. I like my games the same way. I want their to be days where it sucks and I have to persevere because I'm not just playing a game I'm playing a version of myself in a different world. I want my games harsh and difficult. I want there to be things that are forever out of my reach and only a 16year old boy who does nothing but play the game can achieve. I don't need to be handled like a adolescent school girl who'll cry if i don't get what I want.
MMORPG's now are so afraid of leaving anyone out that they dumb down all the content so anyone can do it all. I'm sorry all of you guys with eight kids and a job that works you 60 hours a week had a hard time in oldschool mmo's, but for the love of god piss off, and stop making my games worthless.
Come everyone and play WOW, RIFT, and SWTOR. Stand in line for your handouts and don't worry everyone here is created equal. Nevermind that in the end the world is the dulest bland POS RPG's out their.
90% of the "MMORPGs" on this site are just corpgs or lobby based games. I'm not having this whole argument again. I will agree to disagree.
This. +100
At this point I don't think any new MMORPG release will be a your savior, you guys are a hard audiance to please. Anything upcoming may look promising really comes down to when it finally gets released that being TSW, GW2, Archage, Tera. ect. Ideas of these games look great on paper and look great on screenshots via gameplay videos, you guys will not be satisfied with it. All you need is a couple things wrong with it, enough to hate and complain about it.
Ever think maybe your just too PRO for them now? What you feel as completly easy maybe hard for some. Lets be honest many of you who have played MMOs pretty much know what to expect you are already familar, but at the same time hoping for something new.
Knowing the people in my life who play WoW are just not that indepth in the game, whether it's 5mans, raids, mechanics, enchants, gearing themsleves, the list goes on. This can be a bit overwhelming for some folks. But you and I can say that's just so fucking easy.
Obviously you aren't a developer and don't understand the difference bewteen making a game that cater's 10k verses millions.
Here's an idea, get a job into the game developing industry and see this alot clearer. See why there have been tons more themeparks than sandboxes. See how many of the sandboxes are sucessful out of the few that have been made...
You mean as opposed to all the successful WoW-based themeparks?
Sandbox players know damn well the different between a game that caters to 10k and millions. Its shoved in our faces every day by devs and casuals and companies and industry people.
I am a developer and I make games that people actually play and I do community devving on many others.
I and almost any other hardcore sandbox player know why themeparks are popular and sandboxes aren't. We just don't care. If I want to play an already made sandbox I play ATITD or EvE.
No one's vision is clouded. We understand the state of affairs, we are just sad that it is that way. Although it doesn't have to be. And plenty of us are working on fixing it.
Obviously you aren't a gamer and don't understand the difference between making a good game that 10k people will play for 8 years verses millions that will play for a month.
Here's and idea, quit your job and play a game that you used to have to dedicate half your life to if you wanted to be in the top 5% of your server, and you'll understand why there is so much gd rage on these forums.
Your comment just irks the hell out of me cause it's exactly what is wrong with the current MMORPG's. I'm not an idiot or a troll that doesn't understand simple economics, but what developers are failing to do is reach for 10-100k hardcore subscribers that will play their game for the better part of a decade, and instead want millions to buy their crappy games and keep them for a couple months.
Dwarf Fortress would like a word with bossalinie. That game is played for years and players do all sorts of cool stuff and Tarn runs it off donations.
Its really not that hard to please though i have stated many times what i am looking for. The problem is it is not being produced and instead is being pushed out by these "3 month chumps". I had a chance with vanguard just in time for them to make leveling faster which was the opposite of what i was looking for. I think if a company did an updated old school game you would the people who like it gone there and not here and the people left behind and get back to downing each other games.
You should drop the G in MMORPG and go play MMORPLife.
RPG serves as a form of escapism, not replacement.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
They still have game features, but gamification is not their primary goal.
To me it was very much the other way around, I love being able to solo in a mmo, mmo should never mean forced to group, I just like the roleplay style of the lone hero against the odds, it is a challenge, in EQ I played my mage necro and druid, all three could solo.
Does this mean I did not have friends or a social enjoyment to the game?
No
I made some amazing friends in EQ, met alot while sitting waiting for a boat at the docks
, we talked we spent time together and yes I grouped with them sometimes.
But who is more hardcore ? the guy part of a group who needs to be told what to do and lead around or the guy that managed to solo that dungeon while you needed 3 friends to help you.
People say "go play solo games then" but they really do not get it, there is more to a comunity in an mmo than raids and dungeons, I have gotten to know some amazing people in mmo's and 50% of them I never grouped with.
In eve as part of the CFC I regularly go out in groups of 30-1200 people its a whole lot of fun, on the other hand I can slip into my alt char get in a merlin or rifter and go looking for a fight solo in lowsec and it is the solo that takes more effort more intelligence and spacial awareness, in a fleet of 240 all I have to do is listen to the fc and press buttons when needed, when solo it is all on me.
I also like to run my own groups which is a different form of challenge.
not everyone has this attitude, however I do say it very harshly because this comes with experiance. Everyone can become a freakin idiot and come to ruin your day, when i do dungeon's in WoW, some dickhead got to pull and leave and try to get us wiped but they sometimes was not successful. I used to raid with a guild who is friendly and all until I started talking to a female gamer more often and people started calling me a stalker (to the point where the guild master is starting to believe it, no matter how many times I told him that I am not stalking). I left that guild after soo many cummalated action put against me from pulling a group when it's not my fault, to try to help out the group in morality but told to shut up, to help clear the trash during dragonsoul when about to face ultraxion, and the tank did not taunt or draw most of them away from me and I end up dying. I believe some raiding members in my former guild is too lazy and won't do the job properly, like they are high or half-baked, sleepy or do not react fast enough. My guild never really finished off ragnoros yet on firelands, and will probably take a long time to get pass Ultraxion and/or other bosses.
I'd say the entire MMORPG genre disagrees.
The whole reason that characters ever took a long time to level up in these games in the beginning was because of artificial roadblocks put in place by the devs to keep people paying and playing for longer and longer periods of time. Older games weren't harder. They were just deliberately tedious so the devs could squeeze another $15 out of you for each additional month of play. Corpse runs, harsh death penalties, masochistic leveling curves, etc. -- these were nothing more than artificial limits placed on characters to keep players around. That's it.
At the end of the day, these are GAMES. I don't need or want a video game that becomes a second job in order to advance. Screw that. If I wanted a second job that kept me glued to my computer, I'd get one. At least then I'd get paid and some kind of real benefit for spending hours and days and weeks staring at a monitor and keyboard.
Thats all well and good, but would you agree there's room in the industry for the opposite as well? After all not every gamer is into the same thing.
Says you???
Obviously you are wrong because MMORPGs are marketed as GAMES, in the video GAME section and sold as GAMES.
LOL .. "understand the purpose of RPGs"??? G = GAME. It is marketed as games, sold as games, and people consumer them as games.
Swim like duck, quake like a duck, .. well you know the saying.
You can shout as loud as you can about how you think MMORPGs have higher purposes ... but heck, i will just ignore all that and treat it as an entertainment product and spend my money accordingly. I am a feeling most players are more like me, than you.
Different people play different types of games for different reasons. People are entertained by different things. Thats why there are games that make you think, and games that make you mash buttons like a rabid spider monkey.
Some people play MMOs for the escapism. To get away from RL for a moment and explore another world. The "effort" that you might not like gives other people a sense of accomplishment that they find entertaining. Its the same reason some people like achivements/trophies in popular console games while others don't.
Other people just like to jump right in and fight with other players, or even just to mess around with no direct goal.
So why does one group feel as though ALL games have to conform to their own needs? Some people are just selfish I guess. Its that "stop liking what I dont like" mentality.
Personally I'd rather play a nice game of Risk than Chutes & Ladders...but I wont deny anyone C&L.
Your right G does equal game, but no where in it does it mean that a game has to be easy, and instant gratification. Lets look at another form of a Game. Take a look at basketball (the real thing). Its a game. But it takes hard work and dedication to be good at it. The state that the mmo genre is in is the equivelent of everybody walking onto a BB court and being as good as Jodan w/o any effort. At that point there is no point to the game at all, its just a worthless mess. To be good at a game, any form of game, you should have to put time effort and dedication to be good at the game.
Only in the MMO genre is this feeling of self entitlement so high. just look at COD: MW3. A person that plays that game 8 hours a every day should be better than a person that plays the game 8 hours a week. Its common sense. But yet in an MMO a person that plays 8 hours a week has to be equal to the person who plays 8 hours a day. Otherwise its a great travesty.
Edit: If i played MW3 8 hours a week, i went head to head with a person that played 56 hours a week, i consider it a overwhelming success if I killed him 1 out of 10 times. Same goes for MMO's I expect the guy that plays 56 hours a week to have a lot more stuff than me.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Good thing thats is not whats happening.
No where does it say a game has to be tedious.
If less than 1% of the population is beating the hardest content in WoW (wow used just because of the number of people playing) than that would mean that by a huge margin (99%) are not as good as Jordan (to use the basketball analogy). And so your agument is moot. The average mmo gamer is not being the best, the highest or having the best gear, just like the average joe is not jordan. The average gamers still has to put in his time, gain his understanding, develop his character... just like Jordan in your analogy.
There is not game on the market that I have seen where the average gamer has the best gear or has beaten the hardest content.
Venge
What exactly is tedious?
Thats so vague.
In sports terms tedious is a term used by the lazy to justify not being dedicated. Practise is so tedious why would you want to do it to be good at your craft.
In video games it could be used in the exact same way.
Tedious, grink, timesink, all terms that the self entitlists use. I cant play a game hardcore, but I unsterand the importance of having content that requires dedication to get through. Even if that means I cant obtain it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI