Star Wars: The Old Republic: No General Valor Rollback But...

SBFord

In a new blog post on the Star Wars: The Old Republic site, Executive Producer Jeff Hickman addresses whether or not Bioware will enact a wholesale valor rollback after the disastrous events on Ilum following the deployment of the v1.1 patch. In a word, NO, there will not be a general rollback of valor gained this week.

However, Hickman did state that the Bioware team will be looking carefully at those players who took blatant advantage of the exploit in order to artificially ramp up their acquisition of valor.

I can reassure you that those who were involved and who gained an unfair advantage over other players inappropriately will be carefully reviewed and action will be taken to restore game balance. This could include Valor adjustments or account actions in accordance with the severity of the issue.

Read the full post on the Star Wars: The Old Republic site.

cheyane

Our in-game metrics are able to give us precise details on where players were, what they were doing and what rewards they gained.

That is good to know

Thorbrand

It was piss poor game design not an Exploit...BW has their head up their ass. And no I didn't farm valor that day and haven't played this game in over a week.

Clocksimus

"You  played our broken design as it was not intended to be played because it was broken so now we are going to punish you for it."

Am I wrong in seeing this as what they are basically saying?   Punishing players for their horrible choice in game design is what the bottom line appears to be.

This wasn't a glitch or something players had to break ingame to gain an advantage.  This was released content that wa very poorly or not tested at all.

Ikeda

 

Originally posted by Ikeda

Ok, I'll bite there...

So they implemented a "patch" wherein people could take out the turrets if zerged...

Then they threaten to rollback people who took advantage of said new found ability.

Now people are carebearing their way through Illum.  You going to roll them back too?  Because Bioware expects them to fight it out ramshackle instead of trading kills?

When does it end?

The entire problem is that the OPENING should never have been left.  PERIOD.  Now... bug fine.  But Bioware didn't expect people to figure out they could kill the turrets.  That's not a bug.  That's an oversight.  Taking advantage of oversights is EXACTLY what you're SUPPOSED to do in a game.  It makes games fun.  You run within the walls they gave you.

 

Ranyr

Originally posted by Thorbrand

It was piss poor game design not an Exploit...BW has their head up their ass. And no I didn't farm valor that day and haven't played this game in over a week.

Guild Wars 2 forums are ------------>

Painlezz

This is a great example of why PvP in MMORPG is horrible and the players to take part in it are in general douchebags.  This "exploit" or whatever you want to call it involved camping on other players and killing them over and over and over giving them zero option but to log out of the game.

 

The fact that anyone would do that shows how stupid PvP is and the players who are involved in it.

 

I have a massive hate towards all MMO PvP players and i'll continue as long as things stay how they are.  Every complaint or request I see about PvP goes something like this:

"We want open world PvP so we can kill people while they're in combat and low on health..."

"We want open world PvP so we can kill other players over and over and spawn camp them till they log out..."

 

You know why PvP fails in MMO's?  Because there is no way to police it properly.  In CoD, LoL, DOTA, any of those and many other true PvP games if you dominate someone the game is over and you win.  In MMORPG's the game and the rules are different and it fails horribly.

 

I remember DOAC (often considered one of the best PvP MMO's by many PvP players) and the PvP on that game was almost no different.  You would have massive squads of players powered by +6 speed zooming around rolling random solo and small groups.  The Keep conequest was fun for most players but usually involved those massive zergs rolling keeps and relics.  And others taking them back in the late hours of the night.  I only remember a select handful of encounters where you had a balanced fight and both sides had to struggle for victory.

Distopia

Originally posted by Thorbrand

It was piss poor game design not an Exploit...BW has their head up their ass. And no I didn't farm valor that day and haven't played this game in over a week.

An exploit is taking advantage of an oversight or a bug to gain (X or Y) by most development standards. Players may feel differently I do about the issue here, but that's understandable.

Their wording even shows they understand many taking part in those zergs may have just been there to PVP (have fun), so they're not doing a general rollback, or mass-infractions.

Still there's a large part of the community who feels different and feel that this roll-back/fix is warranted, and they too have grounds to stand by their opinion.

The way I look at it is if their metrics can show whether a person was abusing this or not, they have grounds to take action toward those who were.

Clocksimus

Originally posted by Painlezz

This is a great example of why PvP in MMORPG is horrible and the players to take part in it are in general douchebags.  This "exploit" or whatever you want to call it involved camping on other players and killing them over and over and over giving them zero option but to log out of the game.

 

The fact that anyone would do that shows how stupid PvP is and the players who are involved in it.

 

I have a massive hate towards all MMO PvP players and i'll continue as long as things stay how they are.  Every complaint or request I see about PvP goes something like this:

"We want open world PvP so we can kill people while they're in combat and low on health..."

"We want open world PvP so we can kill other players over and over and spawn camp them till they log out..."

 

You know why PvP fails in MMO's?  Because there is no way to police it properly.  In CoD, LoL, DOTA, any of those and many other true PvP games if you dominate someone the game is over and you win.  In MMORPG's the game and the rules are different and it fails horribly.

 

I remember DOAC (often considered one of the best PvP MMO's by many PvP players) and the PvP on that game was almost no different.  You would have massive squads of players powered by +6 speed zooming around rolling random solo and small groups.  The Keep conequest was fun for most players but usually involved those massive zergs rolling keeps and relics.  And others taking them back in the late hours of the night.  I only remember a select handful of encounters where you had a balanced fight and both sides had to struggle for victory.

 

The system was broken.  Nothing to do with Player attitude towards PvP.  The is no way to control PvP that is why PvP is far more exciting to many people over PvE which is a very strictly controlled setting.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say either as you  say there is no balance in PvP but then mention memories of a few balanced encounters int he same game you said was broken. 

Balance is not always winning when you should.  Balance is simply the  possibility for equal opportunity.  You can lose 50 times in PvP matches in a perfectly balanced system just as you can possibly win 50 times.  The outcome however will remain completely random.  PvP should be unpredictable because the moment it becomes predictable it is no longer PvP but PvE.

 

SWTOR PvP is broken.  Not all PvP is broken.

Clerigo

Originally posted by Painlezz

This is a great example of why PvP in MMORPG is horrible and the players to take part in it are in general douchebags.  This "exploit" or whatever you want to call it involved camping on other players and killing them over and over and over giving them zero option but to log out of the game.

 

The fact that anyone would do that shows how stupid PvP is and the players who are involved in it.

 

I have a massive hate towards all MMO PvP players and i'll continue as long as things stay how they are.  Every complaint or request I see about PvP goes something like this:

"We want open world PvP so we can kill people while they're in combat and low on health..."

"We want open world PvP so we can kill other players over and over and spawn camp them till they log out..."

 

You know why PvP fails in MMO's?  Because there is no way to police it properly.  In CoD, LoL, DOTA, any of those and many other true PvP games if you dominate someone the game is over and you win.  In MMORPG's the game and the rules are different and it fails horribly.

 

I remember DOAC (often considered one of the best PvP MMO's by many PvP players) and the PvP on that game was almost no different.  You would have massive squads of players powered by +6 speed zooming around rolling random solo and small groups.  The Keep conequest was fun for most players but usually involved those massive zergs rolling keeps and relics.  And others taking them back in the late hours of the night.  I only remember a select handful of encounters where you had a balanced fight and both sides had to struggle for victory.

I am sorry, but i fail to agree with you.

You seem to forget firstly, and foremost, that any game exploits allowed by the design itself should be taken in direct responsability to the developer team, both for PvE and PvP content.

Second, why should PvP always be in direct confrontation with the PvE aspects of the game? Why people feel the need to separate the waters here? The most used concept is to create PvE and PvP servers so everyone can chose to be happy in whatever rule set they chose to play, but i must say that for me this separation is the really turn off in mmorpgs. Allowing world PvP, not instanced, but in a defined area with proper engagement rule sets so players can freely enjoy the PvP aspect of any game, not only in SWTOR but in any game, is a good game design choice. It allows for more player base in a given server, player cooperation, player game experience, i mean, come on, it just feels a wohle more compelling experience.

Now if this is poorly designed, flawed, allowing for player exploits, camping, "ganking", or if in any way troubles or shortens the game experience for the players, then please take your feedback to the developer team, not the players doing the exploiting.

Thats the way i see it.

stealthbr

Just because the players had ability to kill-trade like mad due to an oversight from BioWare's part does most certainly not make them innocent if they did kill-trade. Taking advatange of bugs is most definitely an exploit.

toddze

Originally posted by Clerigo

Originally posted by Painlezz

This is a great example of why PvP in MMORPG is horrible and the players to take part in it are in general douchebags.  This "exploit" or whatever you want to call it involved camping on other players and killing them over and over and over giving them zero option but to log out of the game.

 

The fact that anyone would do that shows how stupid PvP is and the players who are involved in it.

 

I have a massive hate towards all MMO PvP players and i'll continue as long as things stay how they are.  Every complaint or request I see about PvP goes something like this:

"We want open world PvP so we can kill people while they're in combat and low on health..."

"We want open world PvP so we can kill other players over and over and spawn camp them till they log out..."

 

You know why PvP fails in MMO's?  Because there is no way to police it properly.  In CoD, LoL, DOTA, any of those and many other true PvP games if you dominate someone the game is over and you win.  In MMORPG's the game and the rules are different and it fails horribly.

 

I remember DOAC (often considered one of the best PvP MMO's by many PvP players) and the PvP on that game was almost no different.  You would have massive squads of players powered by +6 speed zooming around rolling random solo and small groups.  The Keep conequest was fun for most players but usually involved those massive zergs rolling keeps and relics.  And others taking them back in the late hours of the night.  I only remember a select handful of encounters where you had a balanced fight and both sides had to struggle for victory.

I am sorry, but i fail to agree with you.

You seem to forget firstly, and foremost, that any game exploits allowed by the design itself should be taken in direct responsability to the developer team, both for PvE and PvP content.

Second, why should PvP always be in direct confrontation with the PvE aspects of the game? Why people feel the need to separate the waters here? The most used concept is to create PvE and PvP servers so everyone can chose to be happy in whatever rule set they chose to play, but i must say that for me this separation is the really turn off in mmorpgs. Allowing world PvP, not instanced, but in a defined area with proper engagement rule sets so players can freely enjoy the PvP aspect of any game, not only in SWTOR but in any game, is a good game design choice. It allows for more player base in a given server, player cooperation, player game experience, i mean, come on, it just feels a wohle more compelling experience.

Now if this is poorly designed, flawed, allowing for player exploits, camping, "ganking", or if in any way troubles or shortens the game experience for the players, then please take your feedback to the developer team, not the players doing the exploiting.

Thats the way i see it.

The way I see it is you really cant mix and match PvP and PvE, and get anything more than a mediocre mess.

For challenging PvE you need strict class roles. For example a tank is a tank. Back in EQ and XI if your a tank your sole purpose was to take damage. And you could take it like a champ, but you couldnt dish it out, so you better bring a DPS friend along.  Each class had their defined role DPS, tank healing support. it works great for challenging PVE encounters. But when you try to throw PvP in it you have to smudge the roles turning everything in a mess.

Ive always thought the answer to this was add PvP gear that could balance it. But that PvP gear has to be worthless in PvE encounters. For a tank you would have to have something to boost your DPS a lot, while lowering DEF.   I have yet to see anything like that implemented correctly.

Sector13

Anyone who believes anything Jeff Hickman says deserves disappointment.

Zefire

My opinion on this.If you cant make your own game to work dont blame people what to use cause it's biowares fault not players.Players will try to find the most easy ways to reach their goal but bioware comes as the cop and tells you this is not permited.Yeah!is this a game or a joke.If you didnt want those things to happen bioware should have fix them at release.All i say is exploits and bullshit excuses to their bad code.If the game is well writen exploits wouldn't exist.

So lets cut the talk about exploits and shit this is a poor excuse from developers and a confirmation of how badly suck at developing games

HurricanePip

Originally posted by Painlezz

This is a great example of why PvP in MMORPG is horrible and the players to take part in it are in general douchebags.  This "exploit" or whatever you want to call it involved camping on other players and killing them over and over and over giving them zero option but to log out of the game.

 

The fact that anyone would do that shows how stupid PvP is and the players who are involved in it.

 

I have a massive hate towards all MMO PvP players and i'll continue as long as things stay how they are.  Every complaint or request I see about PvP goes something like this:

"We want open world PvP so we can kill people while they're in combat and low on health..."

"We want open world PvP so we can kill other players over and over and spawn camp them till they log out..."

 

You know why PvP fails in MMO's?  Because there is no way to police it properly.  In CoD, LoL, DOTA, any of those and many other true PvP games if you dominate someone the game is over and you win.  In MMORPG's the game and the rules are different and it fails horribly.

 

I remember DOAC (often considered one of the best PvP MMO's by many PvP players) and the PvP on that game was almost no different.  You would have massive squads of players powered by +6 speed zooming around rolling random solo and small groups.  The Keep conequest was fun for most players but usually involved those massive zergs rolling keeps and relics.  And others taking them back in the late hours of the night.  I only remember a select handful of encounters where you had a balanced fight and both sides had to struggle for victory.

 

Preach on!  CoD and LoL are also good examples of good PvP.  There are some differences and adavantages between player setups, but winning isn't a result of your armor being +2 where your opponent's armor is +1 and 2 > 1.

I've enjoyed playing MMOs, mostly from a PvE standpoint.  The challenge of getting a group together and raiding can be fun.  The other two pillars of themepark MMOs (PvP and crafting) are some of the worst game design that I've ever seen though.

nomss

Fine. But they still screwed up bloody bad. Just the begginning of many screw ups to come?

Kaez

For those of you suggesting that this is BW's fault and they should suck it up, I ask you this question: If a bank leaves the vault door open by accident, does that mean you can take the money? And if you do, will you not be held accountable? Really, use your f'ing heads!

Msenge

Originally posted by Kaez

For those of you suggesting that this is BW's fault and they should suck it up, I ask you this question: If a bank leaves the vault door open by accident, does that mean you can take the money? And if you do, will you not be held accountable? Really, use your f'ing heads!

I'm not generally saying your essential point is wrong...but in your bank example wouldn't the bank/bank employee that left the vault open face punishment as well?  So you're suggesting Bioware/some Bioware employees should be punished as well as those that participated in the Ilum snafoo?

Maelkor

Originally posted by Msenge

Originally posted by Kaez

For those of you suggesting that this is BW's fault and they should suck it up, I ask you this question: If a bank leaves the vault door open by accident, does that mean you can take the money? And if you do, will you not be held accountable? Really, use your f'ing heads!

I'm not generally saying your essential point is wrong...but in your bank example wouldn't the bank/bank employee that left the vault open face punishment as well?  So you're suggesting Bioware/some Bioware employees should be punished as well as those that participated in the Ilum snafoo?

 

Essentially yes. If Bioware management can pinpoint the people responsible for a glaring bug/exploit making it to release and this is not an isolated incident then likely those employees will be fired for the very obvious reason that such things piss off the playerbase and a pissed off playerbase will probably stop playing their game.

If the management responsible for oversee particular teams  always seem to end up with bad teams doing stupid things then the management will likely be fired.

Lastly if the person responsible for oversee the entire project has a bunch of bad managers making all sorts of mistakes then likely the investors/publisher will call for that person to be removed from their post or other efforts will likely be taken.

So in short...yeah if the development team makes a series of repeatable mistakes due to incompetence then someone will likely lose their job - otherwise the game will probably go out of business as the playerbase flees.

Most players know when they are using an exploit or something just isnt right. The highest level I reached in the game was lvl 30ish due to the fact I just got bored so I did not make it to Illum. I can say though that by the time you reach that area you should have a pretty good grasp of the game and how the rewards work and how fast you could be expected to recieve rewards. If something is out of balance it is likely to be very noticable.

Knowingly doing something wrong is a good way to get your character banned/deleted or punished in some form or another no matter how much you whine to some random forum somewhere, no one will really care.

Hyperion5182

Ban them all and let the courts sort it out. Bioware might have screwed this up. But no player should have taken the blatent pure advantage of it that happened. People were going zero to max in HOURS. This was never intended it was a blatent abuse to gain any kind of edge just like the commendation mess and Bioware needs to drop the hammer on these people in the only meaningful way. BAN THEIR FUCKING CREDIT CARDS.

 

Will EA/Bioware have the balls to do what needs to be done to make it very clear exploit=fate worse than death? I dont think so. But as a player in this game if any of these accounts stand i will be sorely disappointed. The market is an abject disaster on my server from the commendation mess. One incident was bad. The second is a clear statement from that part of the playerbase that they dont respect bioware. Drop the banhammer do it today and let them fucking cry.

Msenge

Originally posted by Maelkor

Originally posted by Msenge

Originally posted by Kaez



For those of you suggesting that this is BW's fault and they should suck it up, I ask you this question: If a bank leaves the vault door open by accident, does that mean you can take the money? And if you do, will you not be held accountable? Really, use your f'ing heads!

I'm not generally saying your essential point is wrong...but in your bank example wouldn't the bank/bank employee that left the vault open face punishment as well?  So you're suggesting Bioware/some Bioware employees should be punished as well as those that participated in the Ilum snafoo?

 

Essentially yes. If Bioware management can pinpoint the people responsible for a glaring bug/exploit making it to release and this is not an isolated incident then likely those employees will be fired for the very obvious reason that such things piss off the playerbase and a pissed off playerbase will probably stop playing their game.

If the management responsible for oversee particular teams  always seem to end up with bad teams doing stupid things then the management will likely be fired.

Lastly if the person responsible for oversee the entire project has a bunch of bad managers making all sorts of mistakes then likely the investors/publisher will call for that person to be removed from their post or other efforts will likely be taken.

So in short...yeah if the development team makes a series of repeatable mistakes due to incompetence then someone will likely lose their job - otherwise the game will probably go out of business as the playerbase flees.

Most players know when they are using an exploit or something just isnt right. The highest level I reached in the game was lvl 30ish due to the fact I just got bored so I did not make it to Illum. I can say though that by the time you reach that area you should have a pretty good grasp of the game and how the rewards work and how fast you could be expected to recieve rewards. If something is out of balance it is likely to be very noticable.

Knowingly doing something wrong is a good way to get your character banned/deleted or punished in some form or another no matter how much you whine to some random forum somewhere, no one will really care.

Oh, I certainly wasn't disagreeing with his essential point that they were exploiting and thus should get punished.  I just thought that with his general tone he might not have considered the full impact of what his analogy meant.  I fully agree that devs that repeatedly make errors and the higher ups that allow them to do so should be punished as well.

itchmon

i think that the folks that took hours out of their day to farm valor by spawncamping republic players are probably by and large a blight on the community and would be considered such in most mmo games.

 

if they got banned i'm sure they would complain but i bet the ban would gain BW more people than it lost.

StoneRoses

Originally posted by Thorbrand

It was piss poor game design not an Exploit...BW has their head up their ass. And no I didn't farm valor that day and haven't played this game in over a week.

Hating over a video game! Lol!

StoneRoses

Originally posted by Painlezz

This is a great example of why PvP in MMORPG is horrible and the players to take part in it are in general douchebags.  This "exploit" or whatever you want to call it involved camping on other players and killing them over and over and over giving them zero option but to log out of the game.

 

The fact that anyone would do that shows how stupid PvP is and the players who are involved in it.

 

I have a massive hate towards all MMO PvP players and i'll continue as long as things stay how they are.  Every complaint or request I see about PvP goes something like this:

"We want open world PvP so we can kill people while they're in combat and low on health..."

"We want open world PvP so we can kill other players over and over and spawn camp them till they log out..."

 

You know why PvP fails in MMO's?  Because there is no way to police it properly.  In CoD, LoL, DOTA, any of those and many other true PvP games if you dominate someone the game is over and you win.  In MMORPG's the game and the rules are different and it fails horribly.

 

I remember DOAC (often considered one of the best PvP MMO's by many PvP players) and the PvP on that game was almost no different.  You would have massive squads of players powered by +6 speed zooming around rolling random solo and small groups.  The Keep conequest was fun for most players but usually involved those massive zergs rolling keeps and relics.  And others taking them back in the late hours of the night.  I only remember a select handful of encounters where you had a balanced fight and both sides had to struggle for victory.

The same can be said about any MMO, you get the same type of players.

Skuz

Shifting ALL the blame to the designers is a total cop out & a complete abandonment of personal responsibility & ethics.

Anyone spawn-camping to exploit a broken design IS scum in my opinion, because you are quite obviously doing something wrong, to try & say that you were not is just human nature, humans are mostly greedy little b***ards quick to take advantage of anything that profits them personally even at the expense of others, your actions were not in the spirit of the game, have no honour to them under any standards of decent behaviour.

A full & complete rollback is the only decent response to this & I hope everyone that unfairly profitted from it loses all their valour gained & any gear they got as a result.

BizkitNL

They knew exactly what they were doing, and now its coming back to bite them. Offcourse they're gonna blame everything but themselves. They're the poor little players, right? The victims? Heh.