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Why do MMOs always get dumbed down?
tixylix
Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
They always get made easier and easier throughout their life and the same excusesgets thrown out. Either the population has become top heavy so the levels before end level need to be made easier to get people through the content quicker. Then you also have how peoples life style has changed and don't want to spend ages getting gear and don't have the time. I just see this as such bullshit, most people I knew playing games like UO, EQ, SWG Pre CU or EVE Online were in their 30s or 40s.
It just seems to be like Lazy mechanics in an effort to fix the flawed game design of the EQ based worlds. You don't see EVE Online getting dumbed down because CCP know what their game is about, they don't make bull shit changes in an effort to get casual players.
WoW was never too hard, it's now too easy and feels broken because of it. It feels like they're breaking their world mechanics jus to get you through the game quick with bullshit quests that always make you so over powered. The onlt problem I see is they added too many new zones and new levels which spread the population and made it so they needed to filter through to end level quicker.
EQ2 has to be the most dumbed down MMO I've ever played after SWG. I mean what was the point in making so you could never fail at crafting and you need less mats to craft other than the declining population? Just ruined the whole fun of the game for me and combine that with how you can solo the whole game easier than WoW and it's a shell of its it's former self.
Just hate Online games sometimes, why do they alwyas have to get dumbed down? The Only MMO I know that has stayed true to itself is EVE, all the others just seem to get dumbed down so badly.
Comments
If you concede that EVE didn't get dumbed down, then you've conceded that your thread title is wrong. A Tale in the Desert and Uncharted Waters Online are sure awfully complicated, too.
Some other games didn't get dumbed down on the basis that they started out pretty simple.
Because they listen to all the QQ in the forums.
EXAMPLE:
QQ Players: QQ! I hate waiting 10 min for the shuttle port. QQ.
Pushover Devs: Okay. We will remove the wait.
Result: Players can travel at an instant. HOWEVER, all the hustle n' bustle that went on during the wait died. Major Starports became unpopulated; thus, given the appearance that the game is deader than it really was.
But Eve online did get dumbed down. The differences between the tutorial in 2005 and 2011 are astounding... You get tons of handy skills now and way more isk, and a very good introduction to what mission running is. They also took out "learning" skills and started everyone out with 20 in each stat and let you decide how to allocate the points, for free, twice.
If that's not dumbing down, I don't know what is.
That being said... go make more beginners play Eve, the grinder is not turning fast enough muahahahahaha!!
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
The reason why games loose complexity and become 'dumbed-down' is because companies don't make games that are enjoyable to play, they see them as product, and their motivation is to push product and earn revenue as quickly as possible. These games most often have huge lanuches, but quickly fizzle out. The company doesn't care becuase the 'lowest common dumbass' has already swallowed the bait, and they've earned their investment back.
Why would a compay produce a game that could only ever hope to achieve a few hundred thousand subscriptions, when by catering to the 'lowest common dumbass', they could achieve tens of millions of subscriptions.
It's really sad, but companies don't produce fun games anymore, they produce 'product' designed for quick turnaround.
Off-Topic, but what the hell. Actually no it didn't, they improved the tutorial and ease of entry, and the other parts of the game are as complex as they've ever been, and perhaps more so, in certain areas.
Most mmos but not all (like EvE) get 'dumbed-down' cause investors / game company want to expand playerbase and or attract new playerbase.
It sometimes works and sometimes it backfire.
Another thing in level based mmorpg's is that expansions add linar levelling content so they make content easier / dumbed-down /etc to make new player catch up faster especially cause level based themepark design make game empty / emptier at below max level after initial months. This is just in-build flaw of level based linear games.
Another thing is that sometimes they 'dumb' down content too much.
Also so called 'streamlining' is also done to cut down costs.
Last but not least ,sometimes 'dumbing-down' backfire and then I shamefully feel some satisfaction.
Because people dont want to put forth effort into anything anymore. They just want everything handed to them. Then they proceed to make all kind of excuses as to why they dont want to put any effort into anything.
You see this mentality in games and in life. Just look at all of the frivolous lawsuits. People just want handouts these days and its not limitied to games. The sense of entitlement is sickning. 30-40 years ago people actually worked for stuff. Way things are going, in another 30-40 years youll be seeing a socialist movement in the west. Thankfully I should be 6 feet under at that point.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Yeah, too bad we all just can't Peter Pan it and stay young forever and ever....
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
^ This. Lazy self entitlement generation.
Money.
Pretty much.
By making the game accessable to more players, they are adding subs which = money+.
Sorry to the sanctimonious crowd who thinks it's about a lazy majority.
Dumbing down is almost synonymous with streamlining in terms of games. They do this so that games are more accessible to players from all markets--thus in the end, they can have higher profit.
I haven't found MMOs where streamlining became an improvement to gameplay. The only game I can think of right now is Skyrim, which is a single-player game.
My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/
Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/
Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion
We have a winner!
More accessible game = more potential players = more money. Simple as that.
good question, however, why do forum users get dumbed down?
Agreed. And the more mainstream the game becomes, the more pressure to dumb it down further.
Much like the nightly news.
I think LoL can be an example of streamlining that became profitable for the developers but at the same time favorable for the game's community. They streamlined DotA gameplay/mechanics and came up with the character-focused gameplay LoL has (as opposed to the strategy/environmental focus DotA has).
This became good for LoL since the focus is now creating builds for characters--which attracts players from the traditional MMORPG market.
DotA was closer to its RTS roots in terms of character/hero/champion development, thus it attracted only a certain number of players from the market.
LoL on the other hand, even though it streamlined the gameplay so that it can focus more on character/champion/hero development (through meta-game mechanics such as runes and masteries plus the fact that most champions have different builds) retained most of the RTS mechanics that defines the MOBA genre today---THUS, it attracts not only the RTS crowd but also the traditional MMORPG crowd.
In the end? More profit even though it is a free-to-play game.
My Blog About Hellgate Global, an ARPG/FPS hybrid MMO:
http://kashiewannaplay.wordpress.com/
Hellgate Global Official Fan Blog
http://t3funhellgate.wordpress.com/
Currently Playing: Hellgate Global, LoL, Skyrim, Morrowind
Recently Played: Cardmon Hero, Cabal, Oblivion
Same reason TV and Movies are the way they are: Maximum potential return for minimum risk = lowest common denominator.
I think it's because all the crying everyone does on forums. We need to stop being little babies and take a game for what they designed it to be....if people dont like it, oh well! There isnt much they can do after a game releases that will "bring the masses back" and make it "everything in a game we all wanted"
I know it doesnt make much sense to not listen to your customers, but in a game...we shoud play things the way they wanted it to be done instead of complaining you cant do something the first try without dying! If its too hard, its too hard for you! There will be plenty others who can figure it out and enjoy things being hard....this would most likely keep the players as well because the challenge will be there.
Of course they need to fix bugs, balance classes as time goes on...but damn, make things a challenge and keep em that way. That is what people talk about and remember later on, not the five minute raid fight that got them their treasured item.
How many times have you heard this: Game are suppose to be fun, not suppose to be a job. Or... Why do developer make content for the hardcore player which make up 1% of the gaming population.
I heard this enough on various games official forum.
Stating concerns or dissent might not provide rapid change, but not doing so, won't not effect any change whatsoever. If we do not state our opinions, concerns, and dissent, then developers will most certainly not learn from potential mistakes, nor will future games improve. However, I agree that there needs to be more challenging conent in MMOs.
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One percent (1%) is a generalization and a strawman argument. I'm quite sure there are far more gamers who would appreciate more challenging content. Also challenging does not equal 'job', and non-challenging does not equal 'game' or 'fun'.
Couldnt have said it better myself. And same as you , in 30-40 years i should be 6 ft under also, so hopefully i won't be alive to see the fall of civilization.
But yeah, my friends and i have been saying since BC that these entitlement babies would ruin gaming. What we didnt foresee until later was that they would ruin the world as well.
The sad part is you cant really blame them, you have to blame their idiot parents who bought into this socialist bullshit and raised their kids in that manner.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I can't point to Eve - never played it. But to answer your question, you reach a wider audience (i.e., World of Warcraft corporate model). While you piss off people who really are good players, you make up for it by gaining possibly millions of kids.
See the movie, "Idiocracy." It explains everything, even the mmorpg genre.
This.
I was in the AoC beta, and apparently it used to be a somewhat different combat system before the first wave of beta testers could bitch and moan. Think along the terms of the current one, but you had to remember your combos, and the according combo would play out after completion. People hated it, so they changed it to 'whack-a-mole' where you see the moves after preloading the combo - which I personally hated. Then again, I never got my hands on the first variation, so maybe it wasn't all that good anyway, but there could have been much more to what is.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Its the same reason news papers started printing at a 5th grade reading level ( go look at a very old newspaper article from the 1800 when people were supposidly dumber than dirt, most people couldnt even read it today....they do it to appeal to a larger audience.
RPGs were always games for people that liked to think while gaming. Those who didnt had FPS games, action games, and drooling while watching monster trucks crush junkyard cars. So to appeal to crowds of people who included more than the typical RPG crowd, and thank one special game for making this standard, you have to appeal to gamers who just dont like RPGs.
Then theres scociety, if you want to take the easy route on this, blame society..always blame society...todays kids are born into a world of instant gratification, google gives them instant info and homework answers with no thought required, their ipods give them instant music whenever they want it, and their parents give them instant money through credit/debit cards that can be used anywhere at anytime...dont even need to go to your bank to grab a $20 to go out. You think anyone born into this lifestyle is going to want to work for anything? Especially in a game?
I blame both, dipping into gamers who have no interest in RPGs or RPG mechanics (primarily the FPS crows who frequent battle grounds day in and day out) and the fact that more and more instant gratification kids are logging on each and every day to their very first mmorpg or first game since they started playing wow as their first mmo, and wonder...why on earth is this game making me think and put effort into getting to endgame and dominating people? To them something is flawed with this scenario, and it needs to be fixed. Get enough of these people into your game and well...majority of your game now wants endgame in 3 weeks and fully geared in 2 weeks, and they cant be botherd to read quest text (or not in SWTOR listen to cutscene explanations) and need to be hand held through what little content is left that required effort.
/doomandgloom
/fckspellcheck
Well said.
I think it is because of too much "RP" and not enough "G." I have no problems with the RP aspect of a game, but have you ever noticed how many MMORPGs force us through long RP parts of the game most of the time instead of making the RP parts fast to go through when we are forced through them, optional, or just visual? This is okay for players who really like to RP, but it might not be so good for dungeon players, because you need to invest more time.
I think I can demonstrate this effect with certain parts of a Egoraptor video. Castlevania 1 vs. Castlevania 2. When you get to about 4:10 that is when you feel like he is starting to talk about MMORPGs, even though he is still talking about the Castlevania games. Basically he talks about how the requirement of completing certain RP parts of Castlevania 2 were used to replace difficulty in the game. The RP part turned the game into a grind. The game's developers thought that sending players through the same difficult monsters over and over again to get their hearts (their loot) to buy from merchants would get repetitive and cause players to die too often, so then the developers got the idea that they should make the enemies in Castlevania 2 not as difficult as enemies Castlevania 1. He also mentions how the future Castlevania games began to include even more RP parts to the game just to waste your time, but would use many of the tricks we are all familiar with to keep players of the series interested in those RP elements.
Of course, this isn't a fact or anything. I'm comparing a singleplayer game to a MMO here. It is just my opinion that the PvE aspect of a lot of these games starts to play tug of war with the RP aspect after the content becomes repetitive.