Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
I cannot both tell the truth about what 'dumbed down' really means, and remain un-banned. So I'll pass.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
I cannot both tell the truth about what 'dumbed down' really means, and remain un-banned. So I'll pass.
Now I want to know whether Icewhite means describe other people's meaning by dumbed down. Or their own version. I could certainly get banned if I went on a rant about modern mmos. I have been banned previously for arguments about how modern games ruin the spirit of MMOs.
Really? You need to define "dumbed down"... Look at WoW anything that got made easier. Take out elite open worlds mobs, reduce level to get stuff. Anything thats hold your hand given to you on a silver platter, big neon arrow pointing the way...
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
I cannot both tell the truth about what 'dumbed down' really means, and remain un-banned. So I'll pass.
I just got unbanned today. We will see how long I can last this round.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
It is subjective, but to me "dumbed down" means less player freedom. Options to do things in game that can create a "metagame" if you want to call it. A prime example is EVE. EVE is very unique because of the metagame it has allowed players to create that are not hard coded into the game. This includes player politics, warfare, community events, player ran economies, ectect.
"Dumbing down" does not mean making games more optimized or easy to access. When a game offers a customizable UI, swift controls, a vibrant world to explore and play in, challenging but balanced combat, a proper tutorial, ectect then that is a good thing! That is not dumbing down, but instead it removes a lot of the pointless timesinks and player frustrations.
This is my personal opinion, and many will agree and disagree with me.
Really? You need to define "dumbed down"... Look at WoW anything that got made easier. Take out elite open worlds mobs, reduce level to get stuff. Anything thats hold your hand given to you on a silver platter, big neon arrow pointing the way...
Obviously a subjective definition, but....
Dumbed Down meaning in terms of reducing the barriers to entry of MMORPG gaming in effort to appeal to a wider range of gamers.
Some of the barriers to entry for traditional MMOs could be: Time Requirments, Complexity of Game Mechanics or Processes, Risk vs Reward, Punative Measures of Changing Behavior, Level of Difficulty, Dependency on Community
The "Dumbing Down" of these themes of traditional MMORPGs have create an invoronment that appeals to a wider range of people in the name of increasing subscription numbers.
Of course, the problem you always run into when trying to appease ALL is that you truely never satisfy ANYONE.
Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
It is subjective, but to me "dumbed down" means less player freedom. Options to do things in game that can create a "metagame" if you want to call it. A prime example is EVE. EVE is very unique because of the metagame it has allowed players to create that are not hard coded into the game. This includes player politics, warfare, community events, player ran economies, ectect.
"Dumbing down" does not mean making games more optimized or easy to access. When a game offers a customizable UI, swift controls, a vibrant world to explore and play in, challenging but balanced combat, a proper tutorial, ectect then that is a good thing! That is not dumbing down, but instead it removes a lot of the pointless timesinks and player frustrations.
This is my personal opinion, and many will agree and disagree with me.
If you boil down a game's mechanics to just being time sinks....then there are plenty of time sinks that are actually GOOD for the game, and it's community.
The Dumbing Down part comes when you indescriminately get rid of ALL the time sinks (stream line) in effort to allow players to "do more" in their availale time.
Most people don't like death penalties.....whether they reduce your XP, make you farm for gold / resources to recoup lost gear, or require you to ghost run for 5 minutes......they are all time sinks. HOWEVER, the right amout of time taken to recoup from not being aware of your surroundings, being careless with healing, or not having strategy forces players to critically evaluate what they did wrong, and learn from mistakes.
On the other hand, having NO death penalty doesn't make the player give pause to what they did wrong and continue to carry out a failed way of playing the game.....all in the name of saving the player some time. Players never evaluate their performance (or worse, get positively reinforced for doing the wrong things), and you end up with a collection of players playing terribly. (*SEE WOW Battlegrounds*)
I think there is absolutely room to improve on certian features of traditional MMORPG gaming so that they aren't so tedious or monotnous......but there are many game features inherent to traditional MMORPGs that DO take time, and are NECCESSARY to shaping the right kind of behaviour.
I think there is absolutely room to improve on certian features of traditional MMORPG gaming so that they aren't so tedious or monotnous......but there are many game features inherent to traditional MMORPGs that DO take time, and are NECCESSARY to shaping the right kind of behaviour.
LOL .. how arrogant .. "right kind of behavior"??? for a game?
The only "right" kind of behavior, when i play a game, is how to have fun. And I will vote with my wallet if the game is not fun for ME. And artificial time sink (like waiting for spawn, sitting to regen mana) is one of those non-fun "featuers" that i won't tolerate.
Well you don't have to be afraid of The Secret World being dumbed down. The game is supposedly very very hard. At least the puzzle quests. betatester told me that.. Goind to be kind of exiting hearing how the MMO crowd takes down this challenge.
I work all day and when I come home I wanna sit down and have fun and get the same cool stuff as everyone else. I pay the same sub fee so wheres my Thundefury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?
I think there is absolutely room to improve on certian features of traditional MMORPG gaming so that they aren't so tedious or monotnous......but there are many game features inherent to traditional MMORPGs that DO take time, and are NECCESSARY to shaping the right kind of behaviour.
LOL .. how arrogant .. "right kind of behavior"??? for a game?
The only "right" kind of behavior, when i play a game, is how to have fun. And I will vote with my wallet if the game is not fun for ME. And artificial time sink (like waiting for spawn, sitting to regen mana) is one of those non-fun "featuers" that i won't tolerate.
YES, the RIGHT kind of behavior. I'm not talking about thought police here....I'm talking about properly playing your class, and not making stupid mistakes that effect your team negatively.
People forget that MMORPGs are competitive / cooperative games. Meaning that alot of content in these games are designed with people working cooperatively or competitively to achieve some goal. When you join a group of players for something (Battlegrounds, 5-Man Dungeons, Raids) its not about YOU (and your perogative to do what you want) anymore....its about the team.
Case in point...Warsong Gultch (WOW Capture the Flag PvP Scenario). Each side gets 10 players to capture the opponets flag 3 times in 25 min. With such a limited number of players, its important that everyone play a role in helping win the match. How is it fair to the players that join Warsong Gultch to play capture the flag (cause, where else in the game can you play CTF?) when half the team is "doing what they want" and do nothing but blindly run at the enemy with no plan and don't help your flag carrier get back to your base?
I'd call that poor behavior.
I can't tell you how many times I've captured Towers in Arathi Valley and ended up turning them back over to the enemy because not a single person (of your FORTY teammates) could bother to peel off some random enemy to help guard. Or how many times I've seen the entire team continue to throw themselves at the enemy in a choke point when there was completely unguarded alternate route to flank the enemy.
I'd call that poor behavior.
And I've got examples for days of poor "play" on display by the general populous of WOW in team based events or scenarios.
The reason that those folks I referenced above continue to play poorly is because there are no mechanics in the game (specifically within the PvP system) that gives a player pause to think about what they did right, and what they did wrong. The stimulus that typically drives that behavior has something to do with specific (sometimes punative) game mechanics.....or at its very core, time sinks.
Comments
Someone should really defien what they mean by 'dumbed down' because going by some of the people on these forums a game becomes 'dumbed down' as soon as the first patch or bug fix arrives.
I cannot both tell the truth about what 'dumbed down' really means, and remain un-banned. So I'll pass.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Now I want to know whether Icewhite means describe other people's meaning by dumbed down. Or their own version. I could certainly get banned if I went on a rant about modern mmos. I have been banned previously for arguments about how modern games ruin the spirit of MMOs.
Really? You need to define "dumbed down"... Look at WoW anything that got made easier. Take out elite open worlds mobs, reduce level to get stuff. Anything thats hold your hand given to you on a silver platter, big neon arrow pointing the way...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/HOW CAN YOU POST HERE WHEN STAR WARS THE OLD REPUBLIC IS DYING
That's why.
For higher profitablilty. The more people than can learn your game the higher the potential sales.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
I just got unbanned today. We will see how long I can last this round.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
It is subjective, but to me "dumbed down" means less player freedom. Options to do things in game that can create a "metagame" if you want to call it. A prime example is EVE. EVE is very unique because of the metagame it has allowed players to create that are not hard coded into the game. This includes player politics, warfare, community events, player ran economies, ectect.
"Dumbing down" does not mean making games more optimized or easy to access. When a game offers a customizable UI, swift controls, a vibrant world to explore and play in, challenging but balanced combat, a proper tutorial, ectect then that is a good thing! That is not dumbing down, but instead it removes a lot of the pointless timesinks and player frustrations.
This is my personal opinion, and many will agree and disagree with me.
Obviously a subjective definition, but....
Dumbed Down meaning in terms of reducing the barriers to entry of MMORPG gaming in effort to appeal to a wider range of gamers.
Some of the barriers to entry for traditional MMOs could be: Time Requirments, Complexity of Game Mechanics or Processes, Risk vs Reward, Punative Measures of Changing Behavior, Level of Difficulty, Dependency on Community
The "Dumbing Down" of these themes of traditional MMORPGs have create an invoronment that appeals to a wider range of people in the name of increasing subscription numbers.
Of course, the problem you always run into when trying to appease ALL is that you truely never satisfy ANYONE.
If you boil down a game's mechanics to just being time sinks....then there are plenty of time sinks that are actually GOOD for the game, and it's community.
The Dumbing Down part comes when you indescriminately get rid of ALL the time sinks (stream line) in effort to allow players to "do more" in their availale time.
Most people don't like death penalties.....whether they reduce your XP, make you farm for gold / resources to recoup lost gear, or require you to ghost run for 5 minutes......they are all time sinks. HOWEVER, the right amout of time taken to recoup from not being aware of your surroundings, being careless with healing, or not having strategy forces players to critically evaluate what they did wrong, and learn from mistakes.
On the other hand, having NO death penalty doesn't make the player give pause to what they did wrong and continue to carry out a failed way of playing the game.....all in the name of saving the player some time. Players never evaluate their performance (or worse, get positively reinforced for doing the wrong things), and you end up with a collection of players playing terribly. (*SEE WOW Battlegrounds*)
I think there is absolutely room to improve on certian features of traditional MMORPG gaming so that they aren't so tedious or monotnous......but there are many game features inherent to traditional MMORPGs that DO take time, and are NECCESSARY to shaping the right kind of behaviour.
Well, if removing of time sinks = dumbing down, then the word "dumb" has lost all its meaning.
On the flip side, time sinks are dumb .. they are just ways to PAD the play-time.
LOL .. how arrogant .. "right kind of behavior"??? for a game?
The only "right" kind of behavior, when i play a game, is how to have fun. And I will vote with my wallet if the game is not fun for ME. And artificial time sink (like waiting for spawn, sitting to regen mana) is one of those non-fun "featuers" that i won't tolerate.
Well you don't have to be afraid of The Secret World being dumbed down. The game is supposedly very very hard. At least the puzzle quests. betatester told me that.. Goind to be kind of exiting hearing how the MMO crowd takes down this challenge.
The Ultimate Breakdown
I work all day and when I come home I wanna sit down and have fun and get the same cool stuff as everyone else. I pay the same sub fee so wheres my Thundefury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker?
^This
You do realize that Video games are essentially time sinks in and of themselves..
If you beleive time sinks are dumb then you might want to reevaluate why you are playing video games.
YES, the RIGHT kind of behavior. I'm not talking about thought police here....I'm talking about properly playing your class, and not making stupid mistakes that effect your team negatively.
People forget that MMORPGs are competitive / cooperative games. Meaning that alot of content in these games are designed with people working cooperatively or competitively to achieve some goal. When you join a group of players for something (Battlegrounds, 5-Man Dungeons, Raids) its not about YOU (and your perogative to do what you want) anymore....its about the team.
Case in point...Warsong Gultch (WOW Capture the Flag PvP Scenario). Each side gets 10 players to capture the opponets flag 3 times in 25 min. With such a limited number of players, its important that everyone play a role in helping win the match. How is it fair to the players that join Warsong Gultch to play capture the flag (cause, where else in the game can you play CTF?) when half the team is "doing what they want" and do nothing but blindly run at the enemy with no plan and don't help your flag carrier get back to your base?
I'd call that poor behavior.
I can't tell you how many times I've captured Towers in Arathi Valley and ended up turning them back over to the enemy because not a single person (of your FORTY teammates) could bother to peel off some random enemy to help guard. Or how many times I've seen the entire team continue to throw themselves at the enemy in a choke point when there was completely unguarded alternate route to flank the enemy.
I'd call that poor behavior.
And I've got examples for days of poor "play" on display by the general populous of WOW in team based events or scenarios.
The reason that those folks I referenced above continue to play poorly is because there are no mechanics in the game (specifically within the PvP system) that gives a player pause to think about what they did right, and what they did wrong. The stimulus that typically drives that behavior has something to do with specific (sometimes punative) game mechanics.....or at its very core, time sinks.