My predictions...

Valua

great. I would really like you to tell me the names of these games even if they're not the first to do so.

 

Dynamic events. - Warhammer, World of Wacraft, Rift.

Personal story. - Champions Online, City of Heroes (if we go very broadly then every single MMO that people have RP'ed in.)

PvP. Almost every single MMO.

Dodging. Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Terra, Continent of the Ninth and many more.

Meowhead

Originally posted by Valua

... the problem is, you're saying that everything in GW2 has been done in other MMORPGs, but you can't name those MMORPGs.

That kind of hurts, you know?  It makes your argument seem like you're making up stuff.  Not that I'd accuse you of that.

... but you're doing a blanket 'Everything in GW2 has been done in other MMORPGs, I just can't say which ones or where or how'.  That's uh...

... I hope you're not trying to pass university that way.

 

I didn't say I didn't know the names of the games that did these things before Guild Wars 2, I said I didn't know the names of the games which originally did them first

If you like I could make a list of the games I know have done what you can innovative in the MMO genre? But they may not be the first in the MMO genre to do these things, they just did them before Guild Wars 2.

Cool beans.  I'll give you a quick list, and you match it up.

WvW three-server style rotating PvP

FPS style drop in/drop out PvP with creatable server types.

Fully realized alternative underwater combat.

AAA B2P

Instant access to max level PvP characters.

Downed state

I could add more, but I'll keep the list small so you don't have to spend so much time.   I'll let Cali59 mention the subtleties of dynamic events, he needs a 'dynamic events' hat or something.

Valua

Just give him a minute hes on google, once he finds it we will know.

Didn't need to google, as I told you before, I am an educator, It's stored in my brain.

moosecatlol

Originally posted by Valua

1) Unfortunately people can't be expected to keep realistic expectations. The people at ArenaNet have not promised anything they haven't shown to be in the game and working except for WvWvW and we might be getting some info on that very soon. People should only expect what the developers have promised and not blow it up to unreal proportions, but like I said earlier, people can't be expected to do that.

2) This game is innovative. Taking a feature that was used in some other game before and giving it a twist makes and innovative feature but not an innovative game. Taking a bunch of features and the base of the game and giving them a twist and putting them all together and making them work makes and innovative game and that is what ArenaNet are doing.

3) Guild Wars 1 sold several million copies so Guild Wars 2 doing that well is very well indeed. Although from the amount of hype going around I think Guild Wars 2 will do much better than the original.

As for your concluding points, people have played Guild Wars 2, some for hours on end even. There is also nothing wrong with comparing Guild Wars 2 to any other game from a design perspective. Sure you shouldn't compare it in some ways such as level of polish or graphics because the game is still in development and those things will/could change.

The game has been in beta since december of last year.

http://www.arena.net/blog/dragon

 

I agree with most of what you say, expect the innovative part.

This game has nothing, as far as I've seen, innovative. 

It's revolutionising the features it has, but that's not innovation. 

Harry Potter was revolutionary, but far from innovative.

 

And I stand corrected on the closed beta.

But then again, I didn't hear any "The Old Republic is meh" until after the game was released, that begs the questions - did all of The Old Republic beta testers believe it was a great game? If so, then the same coule be applied to Guild Wars 2.

You didn't hear any "The Old Republic is meh" because you didn't want to. I'm pretty sure once we all saw the first few moments of the game we all said much more than what you were willing to listen to. In fact there have been quite a few video interviews of reviewers giving their opinion on the game, and there were many that said that it didn't live up to the production costs, nor the standards of what should be considered a triple A title release for late 2011/ early 2012.

Of course you're not going to see anything innovative, if you're not willing to open your eyes.

From what I've noticed on these forums is that,

Those who do not like the game are not willing to give it a shot in the first place, those deny all sources of information for doubts and speculation.

Those who just plain don't like the fantasy genre.

and Those who were turned off from Guild Wars not having jumping -_-.

 

What nay-sayers should really be focusing on are the actual possibilities, like lack of balance, or lack of a interesting crafting system, or some reoccurring themes from Guild Wars' end game where people will only take meta-builds into elite dungeons.  I hate speed clearing in dungeons via gimmicks. T_T

 

Also Valua, I think the word you're looking for is "embellish" and not "revolutionary"

fony

Originally posted by sammyeli

Originally posted by eyelolled

Originally posted by Valua

Originally posted by eyelolled

Originally posted by Valua

 

Sorry I can't name which MMO's did the above first, but I know for sure it wasn't Guild Wars 2.

So what you are saying is that you don't know why they're not first but you're positive their not first.  That doesn't sound a little bit trollish to you? That would be like me saying "I don't know who you are but I'm sure your head is right up your ass." 

I'm not saying that GW2 is the great creator of everything that is good in MMO's, but if you have a point to make, have some proof and then you'll be worth listening to.

 

Not trollish at all. Trollish would be me listing games that I KNOW have done those things before Guild Wars 2 then you coming back to me saying "no actually the games you listed weren't the first, here they are." 

If you would like me to list games that have done the features I mentioned before Guild Wars 2 I will, but I am not sure they are even the first to do so.

great. I would really like you to tell me the names of these games even if they're not the first to do so.

Just give him a minute hes on google, once he finds it we will know.

lmao!

Meowhead

Originally posted by Valua

great. I would really like you to tell me the names of these games even if they're not the first to do so.

 

Dynamic events. - Warhammer, World of Wacraft, Rift.

Personal story. - Champions Online, City of Heroes (if we go very broadly then every single MMO that people have RP'ed in.)

PvP. Almost every single MMO.

Dodging. Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Terra, Continent of the Ninth and many more.

... comparing dynamic events to warhammer is sort of like saying that because the Wright brothers built their airplane with bicycle parts, it's basically a bicycle... but uh... I digress.

I would have used 'SWTOR' for personal story, because CO and CoH really don't have a personal story.  There's no real choices made, no changes.  They have questlines, but there's nothing personal at all about it.   They don't even fake it up or anything.

... and the style of PvP that GW2 uses is pretty different.  Different enough from the norm I'd consider it innovative in the MMORPG realm.  Their instance stuff is way more like an FPS or DOTA or something, than an MMORPG. :T

I wouldn't have used 'dodging' as innovative, to be honest.  I remember sidestepping arrows in Asheron's Call.  I'll give you that one. 

 

Valua

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Valua

... the problem is, you're saying that everything in GW2 has been done in other MMORPGs, but you can't name those MMORPGs.

That kind of hurts, you know?  It makes your argument seem like you're making up stuff.  Not that I'd accuse you of that.

... but you're doing a blanket 'Everything in GW2 has been done in other MMORPGs, I just can't say which ones or where or how'.  That's uh...

... I hope you're not trying to pass university that way.

 

I didn't say I didn't know the names of the games that did these things before Guild Wars 2, I said I didn't know the names of the games which originally did them first

If you like I could make a list of the games I know have done what you can innovative in the MMO genre? But they may not be the first in the MMO genre to do these things, they just did them before Guild Wars 2.

Cool beans.  I'll give you a quick list, and you match it up.

WvW three-server style rotating Like I said, if this is true, then hands down, you've got me.

FPS style drop in/drop out PvP with creatable server type Most MMO's? World of Warcraft.

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

AAA B2P Global Agenda

Instant access to max level PvP characters Ultima Online, Ever Quest (I read something about EQ a while ago.)

Downed state. Most FPS MMO's? APB 

I could add more, but I'll keep the list small so you don't have to spend so much time.   I'll let Cali59 mention the subtleties of dynamic events, he needs a 'dynamic events' hat or something.

 

BadSpock

I predict GW2 will have a ton of box sales and then subs will fall of the face of the Earth after the first free month.

Oh wait...

 

There will be server status threads and population counts and all the BS we see with WoW/TOR on a daily basis.

In the end there will be plenty of people on these very forums who bash the game and say it fails or failed and troll every thread on the topic like they currently do in all the TOR threads. You know who you are!

Somehow believing that they have the right and are some how more right in their opinon than everyone else is and by GOD will they make sure we know their opinion... again and again and again and again...

In the end there will be fanbois who defend the game like their mother's name that all seem to disappear from the forums after the game is released because they either A) love the game and don't post anymore ashamed they fell for it again

In the end...

Nothing will change, life will go on, some people will have a new game they'll be playing and loving, others will buy and quit playing after a month/week, and MMORPG.com will continue on, with it's forum community hyping the NEXT big thing and bashing everything else.

 

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

BadSpock

Originally posted by Valua

FPS style drop in/drop out PvP with creatable server type Most MMO's? World of Warcraft.

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

Wrong on both counts, btw

Mephster

God's gift to mmos ofcourse not. A great game you bet.

ropenice

Originally posted by Master10K

I find it quite sad how often that people like the OP feel the need, the compulsion, to come on the GW2 forums and berate the game and its community because some other games failed them in some way. People who follow GW2 don't refer to it as the "2nd Coming" only you do, you who feels so threathened by the game's existence that you have to make a thread like this. It will be those people that will try their hardest to bash the game upon release, which is why once the game is released I won't even waste my time on these forums for a while. Even if the game lives up to the majority of people expectations, it will be people like the OP and fans of other games that will openly bash GW2, even when there won't be much to bash it for.

I find it funny that many of the GW2 defenders here, that decry anyone who proposes GW2 might not bad a s good as advertised, are the same names I've seen bashing TOR far before it was released. Doing the same things they now are arguing against. Cycle of my game vs yours-which is kind of weird. Never saw the need to even comment on a game i dislike or have no plans to play. With that said, I do think GW2 will offer a very different, maybe even unique gaming experience and commend them for trying something far different than the latest games have. Now they have to survive the flamewar that moves from the TOR threads to the GW2 threads-though fought by mostly the same people. Hopefully, some good info about the game will trickle through it to help people decide if the want to play.

biogerm

Originally posted by Valua

Innovation is not invention.

Creating the radio is an invention.  Creating a car is an invention.  Putting a radio in a car for the first time is an innovation.

So tired of people quibbling about what constitutes innovation or thinking that something has to be 100% new in order to count.  Take the downed state from Borderlands, tweak it and put it in an MMO for the first time, that's an innovation.

Dynamic events have never been done before.  They're an evolution on PQs from WAR, but they innovate by making them the focus of the open world content instead of a sideshow, making them chain in different directions on success/failure, making them chain in space to new areas, making them trigger off a variety of different things, and being fully cooperative.  They're a truly amazing concept for MMOs.

Honestly, I don't even think this game is overhyped at all.  To me, if GW2 was just dynamic events, B2P, a "massive" amount of content (said to be bigger than all of GW1 combined, including expansions) and waiting until its totally finished before releasing it, that right there is a 10.  Everything else (and there's a lot) is just icing on the cake.

Dictionary definition - something new or different introduced

 

Nothing new has been introduced with Guild Wars 2.

So having no  healing class and by thus eliminating the holy trinity that has been forever plaguing the mmorps world is not new?



i beg to differ.



treating underwater combat as diffreent school and thus giving each player and mobs different skill-set for ground and water is not new? correct me if i am wrong, but i am not aware of any mmorpg or game that treated underwater combat as its "own" thing.  i have  seen underwater skills in some games (perfect world comes to mind, also by the way they had a weekly night for a pvp/pve area underwater. and it was so much fun...)

 

 anyhow again i beg to differ.



and since gw1 is not an mmorpg, we can take some points from it also can we?



so no 15%$ sub, not an f2p mmorpg.



a "buy to play mmorpg" , that is also not new in your opinion?



you seem to be wanting more bashing even though you say either wise.



and from the line about comparing gw2 and other mmoorps. i would like to assume that you played swtor and got burned, or your a fanboy.



either way, you seem to be "forgetting" things that no mmorpg has done before.



cheers.

 

more.... sigh

 

lets talk pvp, as in pv was designed from before day one as a DIFFERENT part of the game.



and in not talking about "lets have some areans that people blood-bath each other so we can say we have pvp"



im talking about creating a FULL pvp toon that will never set foot in pve lands, and from day one you can start pvp and have fun without having to get to level 80 because you start fully maxed?



again. from day start to pvp with a pvp toon that forever will be placed on the pvp realm.if i am not mistaken that has also not been done before.



do you even understand how much power is that to pvp people that just want to pvp and never be bothered with the pve scene.?



just look at gw pvp still going after all these years... now think that with gw2.

 

AdamTM

Originally posted by BadSpock

I predict GW2 will have a ton of box sales and then subs will fall of the face of the Earth after the first free month.

Oh wait...

 

There will be server status threads and population counts and all the BS we see with WoW/TOR on a daily basis.

In the end there will be plenty of people on these very forums who bash the game and say it fails or failed and troll every thread on the topic like they currently do in all the TOR threads. You know who you are!

Somehow believing that they have the right and are some how more right in their opinon than everyone else is and by GOD will they make sure we know their opinion... again and again and again and again...

In the end there will be fanbois who defend the game like their mother's name that all seem to disappear from the forums after the game is released because they either A) love the game and don't post anymore ashamed they fell for it again

In the end...

Nothing will change, life will go on, some people will have a new game they'll be playing and loving, others will buy and quit playing after a month/week, and MMORPG.com will continue on, with it's forum community hyping the NEXT big thing and bashing everything else.

 

How does a B2P title "fail"?

By not releasing?

pedrostrik

when game finally launches a lot of players will vanish from here so even if the game receive more bashing than any other mmo, it doesn't matter i will be playing or doing RL stuff , so who cares about it

dlld

Nothing is really innovative and there are no inventions if we really want to deconstruct things.

EVERYTHING is based upon something else down to the atoms (possible further).

 

If a person says SWToRs dialouge is innovative then so are GW2s DE's.

Both take old concepts and improve upon them a lot and implement them in game changing ways for the current MMO climate. (altough past 50 in ToR it reverts back to wow afaik)

 

I don't care if GW2 is innovative or not since everyone and their mother seems to have different definitions of it so it's rather pointless if it is or isn't.

Fareas

Originally posted by Valua

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

 

This I will argue with because it is fundamentally different enough in GW2 to be innovative. In WoW a class could change skillsets by transforming while in GW2 your skills themselves change when you go underwater to gain new effects that can affect the axis of opponents making them sink or float and nearly all your skills become different under water to make sense(your weap skills just change though).

Skills adapt to feel like they belong underwater... You won't be casting hands that grapple people from the ground instead the skill will look and act slightly different to feel right underwater.

Meowhead

Originally posted by Valua

FPS style drop in/drop out PvP with creatable server type Most MMO's? World of Warcraft.

?  Really, you can do custom server types in WoW?  I missed it, if that's so.  Certainly not true in MOST MMOs though, no idea where you got that idea.

Fully realized alternative underwater combat. Again, just because it's underwater doesn't mean it's innovative, druid cat form, in the underwater wow area, can't remember what it's called. 

... sort of the same type of technology, but totally different application.  Creating a different underwater style combat system with more 3D combat effects and new conditions such as rising/sinking.... well, never mind.  It impresses ME, but we'll leave this alone for now.

AAA B2P Global Agenda

Hmmm.  Probably should have specified game that is designed to be that way.  Global Agenda shifted to that because what they wanted to be, failed, rather than being B2P purposefully.

Instant access to max level PvP characters Ultima Online, Ever Quest (I read something about EQ a while ago.)

... reeeeeally?  I looked around a little for this, couldn't find evidence.  You might be right, but I didn't see it.  How do you in UO/EQ create max level fully powered characters for PvP?

Downed state. Most FPS MMO's? APB 

APB isn't an MMORPG.  It's an MMOFPS.  That's like saying that anything done in the FPS genre counts as an advance in the RPG genre.  (For that matter, Global Agenda isn't either).  Also, some time internet browsing didn't bring up anything about a downed state.  Hmmm.  This also needs further documentation. :T

I could add more, but I'll keep the list small so you don't have to spend so much time.   I'll let Cali59 mention the subtleties of dynamic events, he needs a 'dynamic events' hat or something.

 

 

Alot

Originally posted by BadSpock

snip

And I imagine you and 80% of the posters on this forum will stay here until the site's administrator just decides to quit, because with such an outlook on the evolution of the MMORPG genre you simply deserve to be disappointed. 

Littlebomb

Originally posted by Valua

1.) This game will recieve more bashing than any other MMO in the history of the genre. It will have more people raging than Vanguard. It will have more haters than World of Warcraft. Why? Because it will not live up to the hype, it simply cannot, no game can. 

2.) People will regret calling it "innovative," again simply because it is not. All the things that this game is said to have have been done before, maybe on a smaller scale, but still done before. Therefore it is not innovative. 

3.) The game will be good, not gods gift to the world, but good. It will have a strong player base, just not as large as what some people are predicting (more than World of Warcraft, really? No. It will do as well as Guild Wars 1, maybe a little better.)

 

I'm not bashing the game at all, I think it will be very good. But I'm pissed off with every single MMO being compared with it right now, the game isn't even released yet, you cannot compare a game to something you've never played. Yes, you've seen the videos, but I also saw videos of Age of Conan/Vanguard which made those games look like the second coming. 

To conclude, you can't compare, or rate, a game you've never played (or only played an hour of.) I realise that this website is mostly full with Guild Wars 2 fantatics, but seriously, wait until the game is about before bashing another game or because it is not as good as Guild Wars 2 (which is an invalid opinion as you do not know.) 

 

These are my predictions, my opinions. Free of biased reviewing. Rant over.

 

 

 

Halo lived up to expectations

Uncharted usually surpasses expectations

Gears of WAR usually exceeds expectations

ME1 & ME2 were better than I had hoped especially ME2 since it was consolized.

Skyrim had tons of hope and expectations and I think it met 90% of them

I think WOW far exceeded anyone wildest dreams

Dragon Age 1 met expectations while Dragon Age 2 fell short

Deus EX 3 met expectations even though alot of long time fans like me thought for sure we would be let down. 

Etc............

I think GW2 is one of those games like Diablo 3 that will meet 90% of the fans expecations imo.

BadSpock

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by BadSpock

In the end there will be plenty of people on these very forums who bash the game and say it fails or failed and troll every thread on the topic like they currently do in all the TOR threads. You know who you are!

Somehow believing that they have the right and are some how more right in their opinon than everyone else is and by GOD will they make sure we know their opinion... again and again and again and again...

In the end there will be fanbois who defend the game like their mother's name that all seem to disappear from the forums after the game is released because they either A) love the game and don't post anymore ashamed they fell for it again

How does a B2P title "fail"?

By not releasing?

Did you read my post?

BadSpock

Originally posted by Alot

Originally posted by BadSpock

snip

And I imagine you and 80% of the posters on this forum will stay here until the site's administrator just decides to quit, because with such an outlook on the evolution of the MMORPG genre you simply deserve to be disappointed. 

I've come to terms with that.

The world is getting more stupid every day it seems, and I'm only getting older.

I have high hopes for GW2, if I were to draw up a list of the things I don't like about the "modern" theme park MMO, and how I'd fix them, I could put that list side by side with GW2 and there would be a LOT of overlap.

But is it enough? We shall see.

I have, however, without a doubt completely lost all faith in the integrity of 99% of the posters on this website.

Logic and reason have no place on MMORPG.com anymore, if they ever did.

Perhaps even more sad, is that there is really no where else to go and SOMETIMES there are still some great threads and posters here.

Size-Twelve

It's taken me 6 pages to realize this entire debate is pointless (and I'm kind of ashamed). The OP's interpretation of "innovation" is so restrictively narrow, that it defies logic.

By these rationales, the telephone was not innovative because long range communication already existed in the form of the telegraph. The automobile is just a fancy horse. TV is just radio with pictures - both already existed.

I see lots of innovation (new ideas) in GW2. I've never seen underwater combat done like it is in GW2. You can maybe tear out all the component parts, and say they've already existed, but the underwater combat in it's current form is not like anything out there.

That is innovation.

Meowhead

Originally posted by Size-Twelve

It's taken me 6 pages to realize this entire debate is pointless (and I'm kind of ashamed). The OP's interpretation of "innovation" is so restrictively narrow, that it defies logic.

By these rationales, the telephone was not innovative because long range communication already existed in the form of the telegraph. The automobile is just a fancy horse. TV is just radio with pictures - both already existed.

 

I see lots of innovation (new ideas) in GW2. I've never seen underwater combat done like it is in GW2. You can maybe tear out all the component parts, and say they've already existed, but the underwater combat in it's current form is not like anything I've ever seen.

That is innovation.

Like I said, PvP was invented by cavemen who decided they both wanted the same woman.

(Yes, I realize they had fights BEFORE then, but those weren't players.  Everybody knows dinosaurs are NPCs. :T )

biogerm

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Size-Twelve

It's taken me 6 pages to realize this entire debate is pointless (and I'm kind of ashamed). The OP's interpretation of "innovation" is so restrictively narrow, that it defies logic.

By these rationales, the telephone was not innovative because long range communication already existed in the form of the telegraph. The automobile is just a fancy horse. TV is just radio with pictures - both already existed.

 

I see lots of innovation (new ideas) in GW2. I've never seen underwater combat done like it is in GW2. You can maybe tear out all the component parts, and say they've already existed, but the underwater combat in it's current form is not like anything I've ever seen.

That is innovation.

Like I said, PvP was invented by cavemen who decided they both wanted the same woman.

(Yes, I realize they had fights BEFORE then, but those weren't players.  Everybody knows dinosaurs are NPCs. :T )

haha

 

that is a subject by itself. as gw1 has the best pvp in just about any mmorpgs game to date imo.

not about how much xp you grind, or how many raids you been to get that t6 armor or what not.

and not how many times you can spam your firebolt ober skill (not taking fotm and imba builds - RAO etc)

just timeing, timeing, timeing

and not even having 50 skills and you bar.

8x8x2 is all you need for good pvp.