There's a difference between developing a game and actually playing it. One of the classic rules of the MMO world: players know their game better than the Devs. A developer can code a system. But they can't tell you if it actually works in the game. Only a player can do that.
To me the logical fallacy is that MMO devs by nature are not gamers, why would someone subject themselves to this line of work when there are easier, more rewarding jobs to be had for those individuals? It just wouldn't make sense.
Maybe you're talking about the suits? In that case I'd agree, they care about the business end, they're the ones deciding on focus testing, research, analysis, advertising,, etc...
Second what you just said would be akin to saying a musician couldn't tell a good musical score apart from a bad one, which is all kinds of wrong (in so many, many ways). There's a difference between knowing what's good, and what will have mass appeal.
You're forgetting devs are controlled by the corp, the corp decides what directions they can take, not the guys sitting down actually doing the work.
I have some interesting insights on your point. ( yet small and very specific ) The few people that I know very well who work/worked for a AAA MMO developer not only didn't play MMOs... They hated them... and ridiculed some people I knew that played ( everquest for example ).
I recall many a conversation where these folks would just pound on a friend of mine ( verbally ) for playing everquest back in the glory days of 99. Now, one might think they had come around... nope... they don't even play games anymore at all and NEVER MMOs.
I also know ( coincidence ? ) maybe .... that these folks have moved up well in said AAA MMO developer organization... and sometimes i kick myself wondering why some design decisions are made in these games we play...
There's a difference between developing a game and actually playing it. One of the classic rules of the MMO world: players know their game better than the Devs. A developer can code a system. But they can't tell you if it actually works in the game. Only a player can do that.
To me the logical fallacy is that MMO devs by nature are not gamers, why would someone subject themselves to this line of work when there are easier, more rewarding jobs to be had for those individuals? It just wouldn't make sense.
Maybe you're talking about the suits? In that case I'd agree, they care about the business end, they're the ones deciding on focus testing, research, analysis, advertising,, etc...
Second what you just said would be akin to saying a musician couldn't tell a good musical score apart from a bad one, which is all kinds of wrong (in so many, many ways). There's a difference between knowing what's good, and what will have mass appeal.
You're forgetting devs are controlled by the corp, the corp decides what directions they can take, not the guys sitting down actually doing the work.
I have some interesting insights on your point. ( yet small and very specific ) The few people that I know very well who work/worked for a AAA MMO developer not only didn't play MMOs... They hated them... and ridiculed some people I knew that played ( everquest for example ).
I recall many a conversation where these folks would just pound on a friend of mine ( verbally ) for playing everquest back in the glory days of 99. Now, one might think they had come around... nope... they don't even play games anymore at all and NEVER MMOs.
I also know ( coincidence ? ) maybe .... that these folks have moved up well in said AAA MMO developer organization... and sometimes i kick myself wondering why some design decisions are made in these games we play...
Strange, but of the three people I graduated High School with that now have worked in the "gaming industry" for the last 16 years, all of them are working on AAA titles and all of them marvel over how almost all of their co-workers are gamers who love their work and gaming. Two of them did say most of the people they work with don't play games outside of the one they work on anymore due to needing "time away", but they are still gamers at heart.
I guess it is all in who you know and what game they work on.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I don't really see what all the whinging is about.
I'm having a lot of fun with TOR. I thought it would be 'just' a WoW clone at first, though the conversations add a lot more to me than i thought they would. It feels like i'm playing a new version of Kotor and honestly, that's exactly what i wanted.
A generic mmo with little to the imagination and totally dissapoints the Star Wars fan base from the onset. If you ask any Star Wars fan what they wanted in a Star Wars mmorpg then you will find out of ten options 9 of those were not met for that fan. For that alone the R@D deparment for EA games should be ashamed. .
How can u talk for majority of the sw fans, are u some kind of an authorized person? ?m a fan since 82 and the game makes me feel like im in sw universe.
As a fan I would agree that the stories give off a "Star Wars" feel (but at a point over a few months you will have seen it all=relating to the PVE content)
But speaking for the end game longevity? it's not very Star Warsy.....it's more like "A Dim Brown Dwarf Base Camping Click on Something boring here and there in the PvP Lake not even CLOSE to a WAR" that has rapidly turned into a "Standing still not fighting while you take turns killing each other for Valor"
The PvP dept. did an incredibly horrible job in designing on their end.
I do not know about WOW killer but SWTOR has maintenance and i do not feel like logging into WOW. I do not know how many people saying bad things are still playing but, at least on my STWOR server i am confident it has grown in numbers.
So many people on these WOW forums said this or that game would kill WOW, no game is going to do that! Asherons 'Call is still going and it would not have many people playing at all. WOW i believe has been dropping big numbers recently but i bet it is sttill going strong in 5 yrs.
SWTOR is here to stay and it's a good game yeah it's not perfect but it's good and getting even better, There is only 2 games i liked at the start better AC -because it was my first mmorpg and Age OF Conan- the first 20 lvls rocked and then.....
SWTOR is not a WOW killer, it does not need to be but if you think the game is failing in number i think you will be disappointed.....
Had the game been made back in 2005 when they first announced it.
I honestly think they did a lot of research on all the MMO's before they announced they were doing it, and then stopped. It doesn't seem like they've taken into account what has worked in MMO's the past 7 years, and what hasn't.
Why don't you make a list of the things that "worked" and see if you can get more than 50% of the community to agree with you.
Spoiler: You'll see that all the things you think worked will have many people disagreeing with you.
Let's start with the low hanging fruit.
An intuititive LFG system, and coming down hard on those who exploit, and the ability to customize your interface. All 3 things are pretty standard in MMO's (when they are lacking, its a real demerit more or less), and I'd be willing to wager a lot more than just 50% would favor such.
Blizzard surely is having a laugh and wishing more developers keep trying to emulate their game. Ironically, they are the only ones who seem to know that people who want to play that sort of game (and a polished one at that) are already playing it - or will return after their subscribers try a broken clone as its to be expected during the early months of any game.
Those who want World of Warcraft are already playing World of Warcraft. Anyone who wants to make a game needs to recite this again and again.
If this game released the same day WoW did, I still would have played WoW over this. It just felt better than this one feels. I'm also a bigger fan of the fantasy setting with swords and dragons than sci-fi.
Comments
I have some interesting insights on your point. ( yet small and very specific ) The few people that I know very well who work/worked for a AAA MMO developer not only didn't play MMOs... They hated them... and ridiculed some people I knew that played ( everquest for example ).
I recall many a conversation where these folks would just pound on a friend of mine ( verbally ) for playing everquest back in the glory days of 99. Now, one might think they had come around... nope... they don't even play games anymore at all and NEVER MMOs.
I also know ( coincidence ? ) maybe .... that these folks have moved up well in said AAA MMO developer organization... and sometimes i kick myself wondering why some design decisions are made in these games we play...
Strange, but of the three people I graduated High School with that now have worked in the "gaming industry" for the last 16 years, all of them are working on AAA titles and all of them marvel over how almost all of their co-workers are gamers who love their work and gaming. Two of them did say most of the people they work with don't play games outside of the one they work on anymore due to needing "time away", but they are still gamers at heart.
I guess it is all in who you know and what game they work on.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I don't really see what all the whinging is about.
I'm having a lot of fun with TOR. I thought it would be 'just' a WoW clone at first, though the conversations add a lot more to me than i thought they would. It feels like i'm playing a new version of Kotor and honestly, that's exactly what i wanted.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
As a fan I would agree that the stories give off a "Star Wars" feel (but at a point over a few months you will have seen it all=relating to the PVE content)
But speaking for the end game longevity? it's not very Star Warsy.....it's more like "A Dim Brown Dwarf Base Camping Click on Something boring here and there in the PvP Lake not even CLOSE to a WAR" that has rapidly turned into a "Standing still not fighting while you take turns killing each other for Valor"
The PvP dept. did an incredibly horrible job in designing on their end.
PIRATE LORDS
I do not know about WOW killer but SWTOR has maintenance and i do not feel like logging into WOW. I do not know how many people saying bad things are still playing but, at least on my STWOR server i am confident it has grown in numbers.
So many people on these WOW forums said this or that game would kill WOW, no game is going to do that! Asherons 'Call is still going and it would not have many people playing at all. WOW i believe has been dropping big numbers recently but i bet it is sttill going strong in 5 yrs.
SWTOR is here to stay and it's a good game yeah it's not perfect but it's good and getting even better, There is only 2 games i liked at the start better AC -because it was my first mmorpg and Age OF Conan- the first 20 lvls rocked and then.....
SWTOR is not a WOW killer, it does not need to be but if you think the game is failing in number i think you will be disappointed.....
Let's start with the low hanging fruit.
An intuititive LFG system, and coming down hard on those who exploit, and the ability to customize your interface. All 3 things are pretty standard in MMO's (when they are lacking, its a real demerit more or less), and I'd be willing to wager a lot more than just 50% would favor such.
Those who want World of Warcraft are already playing World of Warcraft. Anyone who wants to make a game needs to recite this again and again.
This is why you'll never create a top notch MMO copying what is currently on the market.
If this game released the same day WoW did, I still would have played WoW over this. It just felt better than this one feels. I'm also a bigger fan of the fantasy setting with swords and dragons than sci-fi.