And actually I agree with you guys that financially, they aren't failing. But in terms of having the respect of the players and consumer confidence, they are greatly failing, which is evident by this poll. That's what I'm trying to say. I just couldn't quite get my noggin around it earlier.
So yes I agree, they are not failing financially, but they have failed consumer confidence.
While you guys are right and did win the argument that you were making, I haven't even been in that argument throughout this whole thread.. so sure, you can say that you won or something, but honestly, I find arguments to be silly and unnecessary. If people just had open minds and were willing to accept other viewpoints, and trying to find out where people were coming from instead of trying to find holes in people's ideas, they wouldn't need to be arguing about things.
But my idea that maybe people agreed with me has been validated, so I'm happy.
But my idea that maybe people agreed with me has been validated, so I'm happy.
Seems more like your fooling yourself. And going back on your "never going to respond or read this thread since I feel validated" attitude. Quit trolling and go play a game you like.
Originally posted by Thinman So yes I agree, they are not failing financially, but they have failed consumer confidence.
If they were failing consumer confidence, they would be seeing a decline in their overall membership levels. That is not the case. They are seeing a net gain of subscribers across the suite of their products. Since there are hundreds of thousands of customers who continue to pay for the service you can quickly surmise they have not lost confidence in the product.
That was intresting! You first post that I was wrong about your view, then the next post (the one I am about to quote in this reply of mine) you do a 360 degree about face and fully agree with what I said. Heh.
Originally posted by Thinman
And actually I agree with you guys that financially, they aren't failing. But in terms of having the respect of the players and consumer confidence, they are greatly failing, which is evident by this poll. That's what I'm trying to say. I just couldn't quite get my noggin around it earlier.
I have no problem with you IF you had more accuratly titled your thread "Who Else Dislikes SOE?". Your title for this thread is incorrect propaganda.... "It's Nice to See SOE Failing". There's nothing else to read into it. It is plain and simple - you were claiming SOE is failing aka in danger of going out of buisness.
Let's say SOE has the most horrible customer service ever. And? So? Their games are still pulling in multi-millions of $$$$ every year. Again, in a capitalistic economy, if the consumer decides to put up with whatever issues a product or company has - then hey, too bad. Have you ever purchased a bag of chips? They are always half-filled. No one complains though. So buisness as usual. Do you buy milk? Did you know farmers dilute it with water? No one complains though. So buisness as usual. Did you know cars could easily get 80mpg (and SUVs too). If the cyclinders were coated with pure, hardened silicon when made. But no one complains. Buisness as usual. (It's how Slick-50 works. And the more modern cyclinder additives that work even better than Slick-50).
If SOE has zero customer service, yet players still put up with it. Buisness as ususal. BTW, guess what? Did you know from the late 1970's all the way into the early 1990's the majority of computer games had zero customer service? You like to use your poll as your claim to fame. OK. SOE has done a poll right now. 600,000+ players have voted in SOE's favor vs the roughly 200 people who voted in your poll. Does that mean SOE is 100% right? Hey, they have 99.999999% of the vote in their favor.
So yes I agree, they are not failing financially, but they have failed consumer confidence.
In a capitalistic economy, as long as the consumer keeps buying the product, or playing the game, or subscribing.... aka putting up with whatever issues there are, then it is buisness as usual. Next, here at MMORPG.com there are 1 million threads about how horrible SOE customer service is. (which is what affects customers "feelings" towards SOE.
If you want to post about how you do not feel confident in SOE. That you dislike SOE. Go for it. But do not post false information such as claiming SOE is failing.
While you guys are right and did win the argument that you were making, I haven't even been in that argument throughout this whole thread.. so sure, you can say that you won or something, but honestly, I find arguments to be silly and unnecessary. If people just had open minds and were willing to accept other viewpoints, and trying to find out where people were coming from instead of trying to find holes in people's ideas, they wouldn't need to be arguing about things.
There is nothing wrong with finding holes in ideas. As long as it is done civilly, without name-calling. It is part of constructive criticism. Helping one plug the holes in one's ideas, which strengthens the idea. Which then increases the chance of the idea being seriously thought about by others, and converting them to the idea.
This is not about winning or losing an argument. This is not even an argument. This is about you making a claim (that SOE is faling) and NOT backing it up with proof, sources, facts. It is about constructive debate. Debating for a reason. In this case you attempted to make a point - that SOE was failing. You got called on it, to post your proof. You could not. Learn from this. In the future research whatever point you are trying to make. Back it up with proof. And guess what? You stand a NICE chance of converting the masses towards supporting your cause, your point.
But my idea that maybe people agreed with me has been validated, so I'm happy.
Peace out.
Not really. You have roughly 200 people who agree with you that SOE has bad customer service. (Heck most of them may even play SOE games right now) That they do not like SOE. That they do not have confidence in SOE. SOE on the other hand has over 600,000 to 1 million people who vote with their wallets. purses, and bags of gold, every month, every year. In a capitalistic economy it is not what anyone thinks - it is what one does.
To the people who think I'm fooling myself, or lying: I know I'm not fooling myself. The poll shows that. And as far as lying, why would I do that? I have no reason to lie about my own viewpoints. I value my own self too much to lie about what I believe in.
Why can't you just believe that this is the reason that I've posted this? Go back and look at all my posts. I have been quite clear and consistent throughout, and haven't deviated from my viewpoint, because, why would I?
In any case, the poll clearly shows that consumer confidence in Sony is suffering greatly. And this is what I wanted to ascertain, whether this was true or not.
So go and read some more Sherlock Holmes novels, because your powers of deduction are suffering.
Read what I've posted, with an open mind.
In any case, everyone has different opinions on things, this poll and this thread show that. And I can't prove myself to everyone here, and there will always be people who read things into things which aren't there.
This wasn't a troll, and it's always so convient how people can just throw that term out when someone has a controversial issue that they'd like to discuss.
And now, I'm truly out. This can only turn into a flamewar at this point, and as much as some people enjoy those types of things, sitting for hours trading useless barbs at each other in an attempt to validate themselves through the devaluation of others, as they sit in their parents basements and giggle inanely to themselves, I'm not one of them.
To those who have reduced to personal attacks and probably will later in this thread: Realize what you are doing, and decide for yourself if it's worthwhile.
If you decide that it is, we can all only feel sorry for you.
Peace out, for good this time. No more posts from me on this, because it's quite clear that this issue has been completely hashed out, from my POV at least, and I have nothing more to add. There's nowhere that this can go other than flameland from here, as far as my role in it goes.
LOL this is the reason why polls on this forum are so sad.
People actually voting on SoE failing when there is zero indication or rumours that SoE is not making a good profit.
Add to fact while people are casting their votes and hatred on some computer game instead of the tax man or god forbid something actually important in life and earning minimum pay ,some SoE exec is sitting comfortably in his mansion.
Sad post with a sad poll made and casted by sad people.Sorry had to be said
Although it is far-fetched, perhaps someone important from SoE will come here, see this, and change the treatment of people that they have failed at so miserably.
Short story. My guild of 9 guys moved decided to play EQ2 after having played EQ1 for almost 5 years. One day we are playing...hating the game because the gameplay is terrible with a gigantic T....when we all zone into a new zone. Not only do all of us lose ALL of the quests in our quest journals....but the server crashes and several of us lose a HUGE amount of xp. Not only that the class quests we had done (to get our subclass and class weapons..etc) were all reversed.
And for that SoE says, you'll get 2 days of slightly faster XP.
Total and complete mishandling of the situation.
SoE deserves flames so that others who are feeling frustrated know they are not alone. And before someone says it, Im not a WoW fanboi...Ive gotten tired of that game too.
You post a poll, on a forum that the most frequent and vocal posters play wow, and or rave against EQ2 every chance they get, and you think the results of a poll showing negatively against SOE has any merit or validity?
That is akin to me going to the Democtatic National Convention and Basing George Bush's popularity off a poll run there. Its utterly Absurd, and so far from a complete picture its not funny.
If you truly believe that then you sir are a complete idiot.
Originally posted by Dekoth You post a poll, on a forum that the most frequent and vocal posters play wow, and or rave against EQ2 every chance they get, and you think the results of a poll showing negatively against SOE has any merit or validity? That is akin to me going to the Democtatic National Convention and Basing George Bush's popularity off a poll run there. Its utterly Absurd, and so far from a complete picture its not funny. If you truly believe that then you sir are a complete idiot.
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point..
This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com".
Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask.
It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general.
Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple.
It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
Originally posted by Thinman Originally posted by Dekoth You post a poll, on a forum that the most frequent and vocal posters play wow, and or rave against EQ2 every chance they get, and you think the results of a poll showing negatively against SOE has any merit or validity? That is akin to me going to the Democtatic National Convention and Basing George Bush's popularity off a poll run there. Its utterly Absurd, and so far from a complete picture its not funny. If you truly believe that then you sir are a complete idiot.
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point..
This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com".
Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask.
It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general.
Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple.
It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
Well said.
If MMORPG.COM isn't the ideal place on the net to get a decent perspective on people's opinions then maybe Dekoth will tell us what is?
Originally posted by Dekoth You post a poll, on a forum that the most frequent and vocal posters play wow, and or rave against EQ2 every chance they get, and you think the results of a poll showing negatively against SOE has any merit or validity? That is akin to me going to the Democtatic National Convention and Basing George Bush's popularity off a poll run there. Its utterly Absurd, and so far from a complete picture its not funny. If you truly believe that then you sir are a complete idiot.
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point..
This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com".
Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask.
It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general.
Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple.
It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point.. This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com". Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask. It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general. Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple. It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
Well I have time to kill while drinking my morning coffee here
The POINT, which you now keep trying to change via revisionist history, is that your brilliant thread was about a company "failing", which it isn't. It wasn't about whether the usual people here still dislike Sony games (/boggle). It wasn't about whether the population of MMORPG.COM has more supporters of non-Sony games, which it does, or whether it is truly representative of the whole gaming community (which it isn't), or btw, whether any of the other sites which cater primarily to a younger readership are representative (all these boards cater primarily to younger readers).
The thread was about whether a company is failing. That's what you clearly stated. So either that's what you intended to state or you are incapable of stating what you intended or you are a complete idiot. Which is it.
It may warm your heart to see the usual Sony haters join your hopeless little crusade here. Now you can merrily go through your day thinking "yeah man, great, those other guys hate Sony too", but it is completely irrelevant to everything in human existence. Every time somebody posts one of these things, the same group pops up to say the same things. Kudos. Feel better now?
Hate Sony all you want. It doesn't help you and it doesn't hurt anyone or anything. But as was noted, if it keeps you and your band of whiners and haters out of games some of us play, we could not possibly ask for more
[shaddup Willjones ... sometimes people set 'em up you have to knock 'em down]
Well said? more like sad attempt at validating a useless poll.
When have I said I like SoE? not a single time. Honestly i have hated them since SoL for EQ. However fact of the matter is EQ2 currently for my playstyle is the best game available at the moment thus I play it. I am hardly a supporter of SoE. I wanted WoW to be my next game past FFXI, unfortunatlly blizzard targeted an audience I cannot stand to be around.
You say name another site? I say its unnecessary. You have been shown several times in this thread your propagistic first post is clearly being read by anyone with an IQ higher then 80, so any attempts to Spin it in a different light is going to recieve mockery.
Fact, The majority of the active posters on this forum play WoW. This is undeniable, hell even the website gave wow an overly inflated review. Fact WoW is not all that, Is it better then EQ2? honestly you cant really compare the two. WoW is a refined version mishmash of all EQish Generation games, EQ2 is something completely different. WoW is a good game, I said it once I said it again. I simply do not like it for my playstyle nor can I stand the majority of the community. But all things aside I simply dislike the style of gameplay. EQ2, the community is a little better but for me style wise the gameplay is infinitally better. Does that mean I like every aspect of the game? nope. Matter of fact I can name half a dozen features of the game that just flatly pisses me off. Now the majority of the players who frequent this site, Prefer the style WoW offers, Its geared more toward the Casual gamer, Gee the Casual gamers are the Majority..Thus the Majority of the traffic on this site is Casual Gamers. Starting to see the correlation yet? You started a thread about SoE, if you have been around this forum for any length of time you can assume extremely fast that any thread about SoE is usually by a Wow player, or someone disenchanted with EQ, EQ2 or SWG. And without Fail Every single thread mentioning WoW or EQ2 quickly escalates into a Blizzard vs SOE. This thread was of course no different.
So with the aforementioned knowledge that anyone with any common sense on this forum would have, you post a Poll with an extremely misleading title ( according to your later posts ) On a forum, that the Majority of the Threads Slam EQ2 or SoE in some manner and you expect to get valid results? Please tell me you have more sense then to believe that obvious load of crap. I do not need to get into the debate of if SoE is or is not doing good, I believe Xplororor has done a fine enough job giving you a basic economics lesson and proving beyond a doubt that taken at face value right now SOE is far more successful then Blizzard in the mmorpg market currently, and Far from Failing. However you insist on reading the poll results and thinking they have any credibility? heh amusing, I am sure John Smedly is laughing all the way to the bank.
Here is another perspective, one who actively plays EQ2. One who is at the high end of the current game. The zones from the newbie areas up to the high level areas are always Full, The economy seems to be moving right along just fine. heck Even IGE seems to be doing well, unfortunatlly. So Is EQ2 failing? Hardly, is SWG failing? while I think the game sucks, it still has enough paying customers to turn a profit. is EQ failing? I think thats unquestioned as to the obvious no on that. So what part of the company is failing? Customer service? since when has soe ever had a reputation for good cs. Has not affected them in the past, so why should they change it? OF course players like myself would like it but fact is game is good, gonna keep paying. Now sony recently did something else which was an incrediablly smart move. Their Station all Access pass is just that now, its not all access "Except" it now is $21.95 for access to Every single one of their games. So players wanting to play more then one game but not wanting to pay $15 a pop, can now do so for just a few dollars more. Much more incentive to the players, and it looks like it was a hit, as they are now selling for all access passes then ever. So everything they do, continues to grow their customer paying base...afraid they are not failing no matter how you choose to look at it. I am also afraid your initial post was quite clear in its message and you can try to spin it any way you please at this point, the points have been made, the poll is useless and your Bs has been called.
Do not bother responding with another spin, you are out of your league. You have 2 people who have called your bluff and found out instead of a flush you had nothing. Its been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Sorry, but you are in fact fooling yourself. I can post polls all day long in the right areas to "prove" anything I want. but the reality is they prove absolutly nothing. What is the proof? SoE's bottom line is the proof and right now that bottom line has more digits then any other company.
Originally posted by Wickes Originally posted by Thinman Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point.. This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com". Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask. It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general. Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple. It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it. Well I have time to kill while drinking my morning coffee here The POINT, which you now keep trying to change via revisionist history, is that your brilliant thread was about a company "failing", which it isn't. It wasn't about whether the usual people here still dislike Sony games (/boggle). It wasn't about whether the population of MMORPG.COM has more supporters of non-Sony games, which it does, or whether it is truly representative of the whole gaming community (which it isn't), or btw, whether any of the other sites which cater primarily to a younger readership are representative (all these boards cater primarily to younger readers). The thread was about whether a company is failing. That's what you clearly stated. So either that's what you intended to state or you are incapable of stating what you intended or you are a complete idiot. Which is it. It may warm your heart to see the usual Sony haters join your hopeless little crusade here. Now you can merrily go through your day thinking "yeah man, great, those other guys hate Sony too", but it is completely irrelevant to everything in human existence. Every time somebody posts one of these things, the same group pops up to say the same things. Kudos. Feel better now? Hate Sony all you want. It doesn't help you and it doesn't hurt anyone or anything. But as was noted, if it keeps you and your band of whiners and haters out of games some of us play, we could not possibly ask for more
[shaddup Willjones ... sometimes people set 'em up you have to knock 'em down]
It isn't a hate for them that I have, it is simply an understanding that they are an entity which needs to be viewed with a measure of distrust, and that their past record needs to be taken into consideration before putting any of my cash into their pocketbooks in the future.
And actually, while I named this thread badly, I was really trying to get a good picture of the overall level of consumer confidence which people have in Sony.
I posted the thread somewhat hastily, and didn't think through what it was I was trying to say, before I did post it. But still, the results stand.
And, like I said before, I agree with you that Sony is not failing financially. And I think everyone understands that. You can try to bring it back to the point where you guys are correct, but this thread has moved beyond that.
It's clear that SOE is failing in terms of the consumer confidence of the market. And as much as you guys want that to not be true, it is true.
I'm glad that I posted this thread, simply to show you guys that there are more "SOE bashers" than there are "SOE lovers". As much as you guys can go on about us being silly or illogical or whatever, the truth of the matter is that we see something about SOE that maybe you guys don't see, or you don't want to believe that you see.
SOE treats their customers badly, in their quest to make money at all costs. They mismanage things in their striving to suck as much money from the population as they can. And people are seeing this.
You can say that the poll isn't valid all you want, but it's obvious that it is.
And at the meat of the issue, the poll is what really matters.
So, I offer you a challenge: Post a poll which asks what people think of SOE, in terms of consumer confidence. Do it in the most scientific manner possible, with no bias whatsoever in the poll or the post.
We can see what the results are. And then we'll know the truth.
At the core of the issue, the question is what people think of SOE. Sure you guys are right about them not being in a state of failing financially, which I have repeated about 4 times now.
But if you've got the balls, post a scientific thread asking just what people think of SOE.
Without doing that, anything that you have to say doesn't hold any water.
We don't give a rat's ass what people think of Sony, or Blizzard, or any other company. They're COMPANIES. If you simply must hate a business entity, try Enron. Otherwise, these are business entities that sell products. You like the products or you don't. I prefer Burger King. Some prefer McDonalds. But I don't see any reason to hate McDonalds because I think their stuff is mostly crap
This isn't, as you say, "teams". "Teams" play in the Super Bowl. Root for one. These are COMPANIES. Think about it.
Originally posted by Wickes Watch my lips. We don't give a rat's ass what people of Sony, or Blizzard, or any other company. They're COMPANIES. If you simply must hate a business entity, try Enron. Otherwise, these are business entities that sell products. You like the products or you don't. I prefer Burger King. Some prefer McDonalds. But I don't see any reason to hate McDonalds because I think their stuff is mostly crap This isn't, as you say, "teams". "Teams" play in the Super Bowl. Root for one. These are COMPANIES. Think about it.
By teams I was referring to the people who like SOE vs. the people who don't like them. I wasn't referring to SOE as the team.
And personally, the reason that I don't like/trust SOE is because of the way that they do business. I could care less about their products. It is the way that they do business that makes me dislike them as a company.
I don't like to be taken advantage of, and I got the distinct feeling that SOE is constantly trying to "pull one over" on the players, rather than simply trying to make a fun game.
The thing is, to me, it is a metaphor for much of the MMOG industry, in terms of the way that the first games that I played almost punished the players in the way that they designed the games. They didn't make the game with an eye on fun, they made it with an eye on holding onto them as long as they could, through treadmills, timesinks, and other such things.
SOE does this in every game that they make, while also lying, deceiving, and using other tactics to get people to keep playing, or to continue to pay for the game, or to pay more.
As I said much earlier in this thread, if you read between the lines, you can see the methods which they use as a company, and I think that many people can see this.
This is where I'm coming from in my opinion on SOE, and I think that a lot of people agree in one way or another with this analysis of SOE.
Originally posted by Thinman Originally posted by Wickes Watch my lips. We don't give a rat's ass what people of Sony, or Blizzard, or any other company. They're COMPANIES. If you simply must hate a business entity, try Enron. Otherwise, these are business entities that sell products. You like the products or you don't. I prefer Burger King. Some prefer McDonalds. But I don't see any reason to hate McDonalds because I think their stuff is mostly crap This isn't, as you say, "teams". "Teams" play in the Super Bowl. Root for one. These are COMPANIES. Think about it.
By teams I was referring to the people who like SOE vs. the people who don't like them. I wasn't referring to SOE as the team.
And personally, the reason that I don't like/trust SOE is because of the way that they do business. I could care less about their products. It is the way that they do business that makes me dislike them as a company.
I don't like to be taken advantage of, and I got the distinct feeling that SOE is constantly trying to "pull one over" on the players, rather than simply trying to make a fun game.
The thing is, to me, it is a metaphor for much of the MMOG industry, in terms of the way that the first games that I played almost punished the players in the way that they designed the games. They didn't make the game with an eye on fun, they made it with an eye on holding onto them as long as they could, through treadmills, timesinks, and other such things.
SOE does this in every game that they make, while also lying, deceiving, and using other tactics to get people to keep playing, or to continue to pay for the game, or to pay more.
As I said much earlier in this thread, if you read between the lines, you can see the methods which they use as a company, and I think that many people can see this.
This is where I'm coming from in my opinion on SOE, and I think that a lot of people agree in one way or another with this analysis of SOE.
Originally posted by Thinman You can say that the poll isn't valid all you want, but it's obvious that it is. And at the meat of the issue, the poll is what really matters.
So, I offer you a challenge: Post a poll which asks what people think of SOE, in terms of consumer confidence. Do it in the most scientific manner possible, with no bias whatsoever in the poll or the post. We can see what the results are. And then we'll know the truth. At the core of the issue, the question is what people think of SOE. Sure you guys are right about them not being in a state of failing financially, which I have repeated about 4 times now. But if you've got the balls, post a scientific thread asking just what people think of SOE. Without doing that, anything that you have to say doesn't hold any water.
Read what I wrote before asking me to do something that I already explained the futility on. Has nothing to do with balls or not, but thank you for informing me of your age. It has everything to do with the majority vocal audience of a particular community, and the only thing your poll does is clearly exhibit the maturity level of most of the posters here.
Here lets pick it apart and analyze it shall we, and see just how representative of anything other then a bunch of young spiteful gamers it is.
First part, Do you enjoy seeing SOE slowly failing as an online gaming company?Ok so we went from the thread title of It's nice to see SoE failing, which assumes this is an undeniable fact to a Poll which the title of it likewise assumes that the company failing is undeniable fact.
Alright now the first option.
Yes. They deserve it. ~ That is about as 5th grade playground of a response as they come. And suprise the majority of the votes go to this one, interesting that seems to correspond directly to my statement about proof of a bunch of young spiteful gamers, but offers nothing in the way of facts or evidence of them failing as a company, since nothing was offered in the actual post I have to assume the poll will offer as much.
next option.
I do to a point, but I also wish they could just change their practices. ~ This one is a little better, and does offer a bit more potential to be a valid response. however as the point on which they are failing is still vague at best and speculation based off the title of the thread and the poll leads one to believe this is simply a belief based on how the company is doing from a game popularity standpoint as to is the company successful based on its games. Which of course you later denounced as false after being called out. However point remains the titles and available responses thus far were misleading at best.
Not really.. I'm not that type of person. ~ What does the type of person have to do with anything you said since being called out? I would love to know the explination to this. Thus far the story has changed with each post, however the original poll seems to imply something completly different..seems the options in the poll are strikingly similiar to the options and assumptions of the topic/poll title.
No, I like their games. ~ Simple no would have sufficed but you had to add to it, simply reinforcing the above points that there was an agenda, other then that stated in posts later on.
SOE is the best MMOG company etc. ~ Obvious fanboy bait, no respectable gamer of any genre would ever answer affirmative to such a response. Now with this one it immeditally throws the first response into stark contrast, which lends it to the other extreem the ones who simply hate for no other reason then to hate because something about that company rubbed them wrong so they need a reason to promote their personal misery, and of course most of this group is usually the fanboys of the company in question, direct competitor. Now when you look at it from that perspective you get a very clear and concise picture of this poll, and its meaning. You can spin it any way you see fit, you can change direction and state what you "suppossedly" really meant.
So based on all that, you are right your poll was in fact very successful. Just not in the manner you anticipated. It was successful in detailing out quite clearly the percentage of EQ2 fanboys on this forum who are active, It was successful in picking out the percentage of people who think SOW sucks without any valid reason to back it up other then their personal dislike, or the fact that they are a fanboy of another game. And it was 100% successful in proving that a poll posted in this forum even for a serious point would have its results sckewed by people who are going to vote on something without any basis or fact, and thus any poll on this forum no matter how you look at it, is utterly worthless other then giving an extremely small group confrimation that there are in fact other people who are just as blindly loyal as they are, so they have someone else's but to slap in agreement.
All of these companies exist to make money. They ALL want to make as much money as they can from their customers. EVERY business does. If you don't like SOE, then don't play their games, plain and simple. Everyone who plays an SOE game can choose whether to spend their entertainment money there or elsewhere. There are currently several hundred thousand playing each of EQ2, SWG and EQ. I don't think all these people share your views about SOE -- if they did they would not keep playing SOE's games and would opt for the other options available in the marketplace.
Don't expect that Blizzard will be any different. They're setting new lows for customer service in WoW (and that's judging by SOE's standards!) already, and their main objective will surely be to make as much money as possible off WoW.
Originally posted by Dekoth Originally posted by Thinman You can say that the poll isn't valid all you want, but it's obvious that it is. And at the meat of the issue, the poll is what really matters.So, I offer you a challenge: Post a poll which asks what people think of SOE, in terms of consumer confidence. Do it in the most scientific manner possible, with no bias whatsoever in the poll or the post. We can see what the results are. And then we'll know the truth. At the core of the issue, the question is what people think of SOE. Sure you guys are right about them not being in a state of failing financially, which I have repeated about 4 times now. But if you've got the balls, post a scientific thread asking just what people think of SOE. Without doing that, anything that you have to say doesn't hold any water.Read what I wrote before asking me to do something that I already explained the futility on. Has nothing to do with balls or not, but thank you for informing me of your age. It has everything to do with the majority vocal audience of a particular community, and the only thing your poll does is clearly exhibit the maturity level of most of the posters here. Here lets pick it apart and analyze it shall we, and see just how representative of anything other then a bunch of young spiteful gamers it is. First part, Do you enjoy seeing SOE slowly failing as an online gaming company? Ok so we went from the thread title of It's nice to see SoE failing, which assumes this is an undeniable fact to a Poll which the title of it likewise assumes that the company failing is undeniable fact. Alright now the first option. Yes. They deserve it. ~ That is about as 5th grade playground of a response as they come. And suprise the majority of the votes go to this one, interesting that seems to correspond directly to my statement about proof of a bunch of young spiteful gamers, but offers nothing in the way of facts or evidence of them failing as a company, since nothing was offered in the actual post I have to assume the poll will offer as much. next option. I do to a point, but I also wish they could just change their practices. ~ This one is a little better, and does offer a bit more potential to be a valid response. however as the point on which they are failing is still vague at best and speculation based off the title of the thread and the poll leads one to believe this is simply a belief based on how the company is doing from a game popularity standpoint as to is the company successful based on its games. Which of course you later denounced as false after being called out. However point remains the titles and available responses thus far were misleading at best. Not really.. I'm not that type of person. ~ What does the type of person have to do with anything you said since being called out? I would love to know the explination to this. Thus far the story has changed with each post, however the original poll seems to imply something completly different..seems the options in the poll are strikingly similiar to the options and assumptions of the topic/poll title. No, I like their games. ~ Simple no would have sufficed but you had to add to it, simply reinforcing the above points that there was an agenda, other then that stated in posts later on. SOE is the best MMOG company etc. ~ Obvious fanboy bait, no respectable gamer of any genre would ever answer affirmative to such a response. Now with this one it immeditally throws the first response into stark contrast, which lends it to the other extreem the ones who simply hate for no other reason then to hate because something about that company rubbed them wrong so they need a reason to promote their personal misery, and of course most of this group is usually the fanboys of the company in question, direct competitor. Now when you look at it from that perspective you get a very clear and concise picture of this poll, and its meaning. You can spin it any way you see fit, you can change direction and state what you "suppossedly" really meant. So based on all that, you are right your poll was in fact very successful. Just not in the manner you anticipated. It was successful in detailing out quite clearly the percentage of EQ2 fanboys on this forum who are active, It was successful in picking out the percentage of people who think SOW sucks without any valid reason to back it up other then their personal dislike, or the fact that they are a fanboy of another game. And it was 100% successful in proving that a poll posted in this forum even for a serious point would have its results sckewed by people who are going to vote on something without any basis or fact, and thus any poll on this forum no matter how you look at it, is utterly worthless other then giving an extremely small group confrimation that there are in fact other people who are just as blindly loyal as they are, so they have someone else's but to slap in agreement.
Then post a poll which asks the question of whether people like SOE, straight up.
No one seems to be willing to do it, so I will post one which is clear, scientific, and will reveal what people think of them, whether they like them or not.
We are discussing two different things here. I am talking about the level of consumer confidence in SOE, or whether people like what SOE does as a company. You are just trying to tear apart my argument through various tactics, ranging from those which are valid refutations, to insults, to things which aren't central to the issue which I am discussing.
Yes I wasn't very clear at the start of the thread, but now that I have cleared up what it was that I was trying to get at, no one has presented any arguments against what I've had to say which are anything other than insults or saying that this board isn't representative of the overall MMOG community, though it obviously is the most objective place one could find on the net.
So since no one is willing to take up the challenge of posting a scientific poll of what I was really getting at from the start, whether you believe it or not, and I understand that I wasn't very clear at the start and this had muddied up the issue, I will post the poll.
Mods please understand that this is not being redundant, and I don't really want to do it myself because people will undoubtably get tired of this issue, I feel that this is the only way to clear up the issue.
I will post another post with a new poll, which just tries to understand how people feel about SOE.. to get an idea of the level of consumer confidence in them. I will do everything in my power to make it as objective as possible, and we can see what the general MMOG community feels about SOE.
It wouldn't matter which company you placed under the spotlight (OSI, Verant, SOE, Mythic, Blizzard, NCsoft, etc ); they all have the same drones working for them who have to come up with on-the-fly decisions, borrowing a page from the generic corporate playbook, that piss a lot of people off including myself from time to time.
Ive had first-class, mediocre, and piss-poor dealings with Sony Online Entertainment, but, I have never felt that their business practices were any different then my cellular phone provider or any other subscription I have ever held.
All I can convey is that talk is cheap, and since this thread is as about as constructive as an abortion protest; you arent exactly fighting the good fight.
Comments
And actually I agree with you guys that financially, they aren't failing. But in terms of having the respect of the players and consumer confidence, they are greatly failing, which is evident by this poll. That's what I'm trying to say. I just couldn't quite get my noggin around it earlier.
So yes I agree, they are not failing financially, but they have failed consumer confidence.
While you guys are right and did win the argument that you were making, I haven't even been in that argument throughout this whole thread.. so sure, you can say that you won or something, but honestly, I find arguments to be silly and unnecessary. If people just had open minds and were willing to accept other viewpoints, and trying to find out where people were coming from instead of trying to find holes in people's ideas, they wouldn't need to be arguing about things.
But my idea that maybe people agreed with me has been validated, so I'm happy.
Peace out.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
And going back on your "never going to respond or read this thread since I feel validated" attitude.
Quit trolling and go play a game you like.
If they were failing consumer confidence, they would be seeing a decline in their overall membership levels. That is not the case. They are seeing a net gain of subscribers across the suite of their products. Since there are hundreds of thousands of customers who continue to pay for the service you can quickly surmise they have not lost confidence in the product.
You need to rethink your perspective.
To the people who think I'm fooling myself, or lying: I know I'm not fooling myself. The poll shows that. And as far as lying, why would I do that? I have no reason to lie about my own viewpoints. I value my own self too much to lie about what I believe in.
Why can't you just believe that this is the reason that I've posted this? Go back and look at all my posts. I have been quite clear and consistent throughout, and haven't deviated from my viewpoint, because, why would I?
In any case, the poll clearly shows that consumer confidence in Sony is suffering greatly. And this is what I wanted to ascertain, whether this was true or not.
So go and read some more Sherlock Holmes novels, because your powers of deduction are suffering.
Read what I've posted, with an open mind.
In any case, everyone has different opinions on things, this poll and this thread show that. And I can't prove myself to everyone here, and there will always be people who read things into things which aren't there.
This wasn't a troll, and it's always so convient how people can just throw that term out when someone has a controversial issue that they'd like to discuss.
And now, I'm truly out. This can only turn into a flamewar at this point, and as much as some people enjoy those types of things, sitting for hours trading useless barbs at each other in an attempt to validate themselves through the devaluation of others, as they sit in their parents basements and giggle inanely to themselves, I'm not one of them.
To those who have reduced to personal attacks and probably will later in this thread: Realize what you are doing, and decide for yourself if it's worthwhile.
If you decide that it is, we can all only feel sorry for you.
Peace out, for good this time. No more posts from me on this, because it's quite clear that this issue has been completely hashed out, from my POV at least, and I have nothing more to add. There's nowhere that this can go other than flameland from here, as far as my role in it goes.
So, truly, peace out.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
You began this entire conversation with a classic example of flamebait from you. Don't be surprised if it stays where you started it.
LOL this is the reason why polls on this forum are so sad.
People actually voting on SoE failing when there is zero indication or rumours that SoE is not making a good profit.
Add to fact while people are casting their votes and hatred on some computer game instead of the tax man or god forbid something actually important in life and earning minimum pay ,some SoE exec is sitting comfortably in his mansion.
Sad post with a sad poll made and casted by sad people.Sorry had to be said
No. I think this is a great post/poll.
Although it is far-fetched, perhaps someone important from SoE will come here, see this, and change the treatment of people that they have failed at so miserably.
Short story. My guild of 9 guys moved decided to play EQ2 after having played EQ1 for almost 5 years. One day we are playing...hating the game because the gameplay is terrible with a gigantic T....when we all zone into a new zone. Not only do all of us lose ALL of the quests in our quest journals....but the server crashes and several of us lose a HUGE amount of xp. Not only that the class quests we had done (to get our subclass and class weapons..etc) were all reversed.
And for that SoE says, you'll get 2 days of slightly faster XP.
Total and complete mishandling of the situation.
SoE deserves flames so that others who are feeling frustrated know they are not alone.
And before someone says it, Im not a WoW fanboi...Ive gotten tired of that game too.
You post a poll, on a forum that the most frequent and vocal posters play wow, and or rave against EQ2 every chance they get, and you think the results of a poll showing negatively against SOE has any merit or validity?
That is akin to me going to the Democtatic National Convention and Basing George Bush's popularity off a poll run there. Its utterly Absurd, and so far from a complete picture its not funny.
If you truly believe that then you sir are a complete idiot.
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point..
This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com".
Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask.
It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general.
Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple.
It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point..
This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com".
Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask.
It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general.
Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple.
It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
Well said.
If MMORPG.COM isn't the ideal place on the net to get a decent perspective on people's opinions then maybe Dekoth will tell us what is?
Okay I'm gonna get back into this, because I have something to contribute at this point..
This website is the most general MMOG website there is, on the whole 'net. This is not "WoWMMORPG.com".
Name me a general website which doesn't have the same picture in terms of what they think of SOE. That's all I ask.
It can't be an EQ website, it can't be any kind of a website which would draw anything other than just MMOG gamers in general.
Face it, people just don't like SOE. This website will provide you with the clearest picture of the overall population of MMOG games. Pure and simple.
It sucks to be on the losing team, and often the people who support the losing team are the most ardent about their team not being what everyone else says they are, but honestly, why would this website draw anything but the most general group of MMOG gamers that there is? People just like WoW, get over it.
What happend to you that you hate SOE so much?
Well I have time to kill while drinking my morning coffee here
The POINT, which you now keep trying to change via revisionist history, is that your brilliant thread was about a company "failing", which it isn't. It wasn't about whether the usual people here still dislike Sony games (/boggle). It wasn't about whether the population of MMORPG.COM has more supporters of non-Sony games, which it does, or whether it is truly representative of the whole gaming community (which it isn't), or btw, whether any of the other sites which cater primarily to a younger readership are representative (all these boards cater primarily to younger readers).
The thread was about whether a company is failing. That's what you clearly stated. So either that's what you intended to state or you are incapable of stating what you intended or you are a complete idiot. Which is it.
It may warm your heart to see the usual Sony haters join your hopeless little crusade here. Now you can merrily go through your day thinking "yeah man, great, those other guys hate Sony too", but it is completely irrelevant to everything in human existence. Every time somebody posts one of these things, the same group pops up to say the same things. Kudos. Feel better now?
Hate Sony all you want. It doesn't help you and it doesn't hurt anyone or anything. But as was noted, if it keeps you and your band of whiners and haters out of games some of us play, we could not possibly ask for more
[shaddup Willjones
... sometimes people set 'em up you have to knock 'em down]
Well said? more like sad attempt at validating a useless poll.
When have I said I like SoE? not a single time. Honestly i have hated them since SoL for EQ. However fact of the matter is EQ2 currently for my playstyle is the best game available at the moment thus I play it. I am hardly a supporter of SoE. I wanted WoW to be my next game past FFXI, unfortunatlly blizzard targeted an audience I cannot stand to be around.
You say name another site? I say its unnecessary. You have been shown several times in this thread your propagistic first post is clearly being read by anyone with an IQ higher then 80, so any attempts to Spin it in a different light is going to recieve mockery.
Fact, The majority of the active posters on this forum play WoW. This is undeniable, hell even the website gave wow an overly inflated review. Fact WoW is not all that, Is it better then EQ2? honestly you cant really compare the two. WoW is a refined version mishmash of all EQish Generation games, EQ2 is something completely different. WoW is a good game, I said it once I said it again. I simply do not like it for my playstyle nor can I stand the majority of the community. But all things aside I simply dislike the style of gameplay. EQ2, the community is a little better but for me style wise the gameplay is infinitally better. Does that mean I like every aspect of the game? nope. Matter of fact I can name half a dozen features of the game that just flatly pisses me off. Now the majority of the players who frequent this site, Prefer the style WoW offers, Its geared more toward the Casual gamer, Gee the Casual gamers are the Majority..Thus the Majority of the traffic on this site is Casual Gamers. Starting to see the correlation yet? You started a thread about SoE, if you have been around this forum for any length of time you can assume extremely fast that any thread about SoE is usually by a Wow player, or someone disenchanted with EQ, EQ2 or SWG. And without Fail Every single thread mentioning WoW or EQ2 quickly escalates into a Blizzard vs SOE. This thread was of course no different.
So with the aforementioned knowledge that anyone with any common sense on this forum would have, you post a Poll with an extremely misleading title ( according to your later posts ) On a forum, that the Majority of the Threads Slam EQ2 or SoE in some manner and you expect to get valid results? Please tell me you have more sense then to believe that obvious load of crap. I do not need to get into the debate of if SoE is or is not doing good, I believe Xplororor has done a fine enough job giving you a basic economics lesson and proving beyond a doubt that taken at face value right now SOE is far more successful then Blizzard in the mmorpg market currently, and Far from Failing. However you insist on reading the poll results and thinking they have any credibility? heh amusing, I am sure John Smedly is laughing all the way to the bank.
Here is another perspective, one who actively plays EQ2. One who is at the high end of the current game. The zones from the newbie areas up to the high level areas are always Full, The economy seems to be moving right along just fine. heck Even IGE seems to be doing well, unfortunatlly. So Is EQ2 failing? Hardly, is SWG failing? while I think the game sucks, it still has enough paying customers to turn a profit. is EQ failing? I think thats unquestioned as to the obvious no on that. So what part of the company is failing? Customer service? since when has soe ever had a reputation for good cs. Has not affected them in the past, so why should they change it? OF course players like myself would like it but fact is game is good, gonna keep paying. Now sony recently did something else which was an incrediablly smart move. Their Station all Access pass is just that now, its not all access "Except" it now is $21.95 for access to Every single one of their games. So players wanting to play more then one game but not wanting to pay $15 a pop, can now do so for just a few dollars more. Much more incentive to the players, and it looks like it was a hit, as they are now selling for all access passes then ever. So everything they do, continues to grow their customer paying base...afraid they are not failing no matter how you choose to look at it. I am also afraid your initial post was quite clear in its message and you can try to spin it any way you please at this point, the points have been made, the poll is useless and your Bs has been called.
Do not bother responding with another spin, you are out of your league. You have 2 people who have called your bluff and found out instead of a flush you had nothing. Its been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Sorry, but you are in fact fooling yourself. I can post polls all day long in the right areas to "prove" anything I want. but the reality is they prove absolutly nothing. What is the proof? SoE's bottom line is the proof and right now that bottom line has more digits then any other company.
It isn't a hate for them that I have, it is simply an understanding that they are an entity which needs to be viewed with a measure of distrust, and that their past record needs to be taken into consideration before putting any of my cash into their pocketbooks in the future.
And actually, while I named this thread badly, I was really trying to get a good picture of the overall level of consumer confidence which people have in Sony.
I posted the thread somewhat hastily, and didn't think through what it was I was trying to say, before I did post it. But still, the results stand.
And, like I said before, I agree with you that Sony is not failing financially. And I think everyone understands that. You can try to bring it back to the point where you guys are correct, but this thread has moved beyond that.
It's clear that SOE is failing in terms of the consumer confidence of the market. And as much as you guys want that to not be true, it is true.
I'm glad that I posted this thread, simply to show you guys that there are more "SOE bashers" than there are "SOE lovers". As much as you guys can go on about us being silly or illogical or whatever, the truth of the matter is that we see something about SOE that maybe you guys don't see, or you don't want to believe that you see.
SOE treats their customers badly, in their quest to make money at all costs. They mismanage things in their striving to suck as much money from the population as they can. And people are seeing this.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
You can say that the poll isn't valid all you want, but it's obvious that it is.
And at the meat of the issue, the poll is what really matters.
So, I offer you a challenge: Post a poll which asks what people think of SOE, in terms of consumer confidence. Do it in the most scientific manner possible, with no bias whatsoever in the poll or the post.
We can see what the results are. And then we'll know the truth.
At the core of the issue, the question is what people think of SOE. Sure you guys are right about them not being in a state of failing financially, which I have repeated about 4 times now.
But if you've got the balls, post a scientific thread asking just what people think of SOE.
Without doing that, anything that you have to say doesn't hold any water.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Watch my lips.
We don't give a rat's ass what people think of Sony, or Blizzard, or any other company. They're COMPANIES. If you simply must hate a business entity, try Enron. Otherwise, these are business entities that sell products. You like the products or you don't. I prefer Burger King. Some prefer McDonalds. But I don't see any reason to hate McDonalds because I think their stuff is mostly crap
This isn't, as you say, "teams". "Teams" play in the Super Bowl. Root for one. These are COMPANIES. Think about it.
By teams I was referring to the people who like SOE vs. the people who don't like them. I wasn't referring to SOE as the team.
And personally, the reason that I don't like/trust SOE is because of the way that they do business. I could care less about their products. It is the way that they do business that makes me dislike them as a company.
I don't like to be taken advantage of, and I got the distinct feeling that SOE is constantly trying to "pull one over" on the players, rather than simply trying to make a fun game.
The thing is, to me, it is a metaphor for much of the MMOG industry, in terms of the way that the first games that I played almost punished the players in the way that they designed the games. They didn't make the game with an eye on fun, they made it with an eye on holding onto them as long as they could, through treadmills, timesinks, and other such things.
SOE does this in every game that they make, while also lying, deceiving, and using other tactics to get people to keep playing, or to continue to pay for the game, or to pay more.
As I said much earlier in this thread, if you read between the lines, you can see the methods which they use as a company, and I think that many people can see this.
This is where I'm coming from in my opinion on SOE, and I think that a lot of people agree in one way or another with this analysis of SOE.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
By teams I was referring to the people who like SOE vs. the people who don't like them. I wasn't referring to SOE as the team.
And personally, the reason that I don't like/trust SOE is because of the way that they do business. I could care less about their products. It is the way that they do business that makes me dislike them as a company.
I don't like to be taken advantage of, and I got the distinct feeling that SOE is constantly trying to "pull one over" on the players, rather than simply trying to make a fun game.
The thing is, to me, it is a metaphor for much of the MMOG industry, in terms of the way that the first games that I played almost punished the players in the way that they designed the games. They didn't make the game with an eye on fun, they made it with an eye on holding onto them as long as they could, through treadmills, timesinks, and other such things.
SOE does this in every game that they make, while also lying, deceiving, and using other tactics to get people to keep playing, or to continue to pay for the game, or to pay more.
As I said much earlier in this thread, if you read between the lines, you can see the methods which they use as a company, and I think that many people can see this.
This is where I'm coming from in my opinion on SOE, and I think that a lot of people agree in one way or another with this analysis of SOE.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Sorry about the quote, I meant to do an edit.
_______________________________________________________________________
Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
Read what I wrote before asking me to do something that I already explained the futility on. Has nothing to do with balls or not, but thank you for informing me of your age. It has everything to do with the majority vocal audience of a particular community, and the only thing your poll does is clearly exhibit the maturity level of most of the posters here.
Here lets pick it apart and analyze it shall we, and see just how representative of anything other then a bunch of young spiteful gamers it is.
First part, Do you enjoy seeing SOE slowly failing as an online gaming company? Ok so we went from the thread title of It's nice to see SoE failing, which assumes this is an undeniable fact to a Poll which the title of it likewise assumes that the company failing is undeniable fact.
Alright now the first option.
Yes. They deserve it. ~ That is about as 5th grade playground of a response as they come. And suprise the majority of the votes go to this one, interesting that seems to correspond directly to my statement about proof of a bunch of young spiteful gamers, but offers nothing in the way of facts or evidence of them failing as a company, since nothing was offered in the actual post I have to assume the poll will offer as much.
next option.
I do to a point, but I also wish they could just change their practices. ~ This one is a little better, and does offer a bit more potential to be a valid response. however as the point on which they are failing is still vague at best and speculation based off the title of the thread and the poll leads one to believe this is simply a belief based on how the company is doing from a game popularity standpoint as to is the company successful based on its games. Which of course you later denounced as false after being called out. However point remains the titles and available responses thus far were misleading at best.
Not really.. I'm not that type of person. ~ What does the type of person have to do with anything you said since being called out? I would love to know the explination to this. Thus far the story has changed with each post, however the original poll seems to imply something completly different..seems the options in the poll are strikingly similiar to the options and assumptions of the topic/poll title.
No, I like their games. ~ Simple no would have sufficed but you had to add to it, simply reinforcing the above points that there was an agenda, other then that stated in posts later on.
SOE is the best MMOG company etc. ~ Obvious fanboy bait, no respectable gamer of any genre would ever answer affirmative to such a response. Now with this one it immeditally throws the first response into stark contrast, which lends it to the other extreem the ones who simply hate for no other reason then to hate because something about that company rubbed them wrong so they need a reason to promote their personal misery, and of course most of this group is usually the fanboys of the company in question, direct competitor. Now when you look at it from that perspective you get a very clear and concise picture of this poll, and its meaning. You can spin it any way you see fit, you can change direction and state what you "suppossedly" really meant.
So based on all that, you are right your poll was in fact very successful. Just not in the manner you anticipated. It was successful in detailing out quite clearly the percentage of EQ2 fanboys on this forum who are active, It was successful in picking out the percentage of people who think SOW sucks without any valid reason to back it up other then their personal dislike, or the fact that they are a fanboy of another game. And it was 100% successful in proving that a poll posted in this forum even for a serious point would have its results sckewed by people who are going to vote on something without any basis or fact, and thus any poll on this forum no matter how you look at it, is utterly worthless other then giving an extremely small group confrimation that there are in fact other people who are just as blindly loyal as they are, so they have someone else's but to slap in agreement.
All of these companies exist to make money. They ALL want to make as much money as they can from their customers. EVERY business does. If you don't like SOE, then don't play their games, plain and simple. Everyone who plays an SOE game can choose whether to spend their entertainment money there or elsewhere. There are currently several hundred thousand playing each of EQ2, SWG and EQ. I don't think all these people share your views about SOE -- if they did they would not keep playing SOE's games and would opt for the other options available in the marketplace.
Don't expect that Blizzard will be any different. They're setting new lows for customer service in WoW (and that's judging by SOE's standards!) already, and their main objective will surely be to make as much money as possible off WoW.
Then post a poll which asks the question of whether people like SOE, straight up.
No one seems to be willing to do it, so I will post one which is clear, scientific, and will reveal what people think of them, whether they like them or not.
We are discussing two different things here. I am talking about the level of consumer confidence in SOE, or whether people like what SOE does as a company. You are just trying to tear apart my argument through various tactics, ranging from those which are valid refutations, to insults, to things which aren't central to the issue which I am discussing.
Yes I wasn't very clear at the start of the thread, but now that I have cleared up what it was that I was trying to get at, no one has presented any arguments against what I've had to say which are anything other than insults or saying that this board isn't representative of the overall MMOG community, though it obviously is the most objective place one could find on the net.
So since no one is willing to take up the challenge of posting a scientific poll of what I was really getting at from the start, whether you believe it or not, and I understand that I wasn't very clear at the start and this had muddied up the issue, I will post the poll.
Mods please understand that this is not being redundant, and I don't really want to do it myself because people will undoubtably get tired of this issue, I feel that this is the only way to clear up the issue.
I will post another post with a new poll, which just tries to understand how people feel about SOE.. to get an idea of the level of consumer confidence in them. I will do everything in my power to make it as objective as possible, and we can see what the general MMOG community feels about SOE.
So yeah.. that'll be posted in a minute.
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Looking forward (cautiously) to: Age of Conan, Dark Solstice, Armada Online.
Will soon try: Guild Wars
Overall: Amazed and bewhildered at the current sad state of the artform of gaming.
It wouldn't matter which company you placed under the spotlight (OSI, Verant, SOE, Mythic, Blizzard, NCsoft, etc ); they all have the same drones working for them who have to come up with on-the-fly decisions, borrowing a page from the generic corporate playbook, that piss a lot of people off including myself from time to time.
Ive had first-class, mediocre, and piss-poor dealings with Sony Online Entertainment, but, I have never felt that their business practices were any different then my cellular phone provider or any other subscription I have ever held.
All I can convey is that talk is cheap, and since this thread is as about as constructive as an abortion protest; you arent exactly fighting the good fight.