Dynamic events in the starter areas will likely be on short chains, maybe two or three steps only, seems the logical way to ensure there's always something to jump in to straight away. There were plenty of things happening in the Charr starter area, I doubt any of them chained to any great length, if in fact some of them chained at all. Various areas were in constant state of attack, if the chain had a defeat outcome then action in that immediate area could dry up. I can see that being an achilles heal, but only in the way that critics would be quick to judge that the starting areas events didn't chain, or didn't have any real effect on the world.
*sigh* People will always try to find fault with anything in this game, even without any indication of said fault being in the game. How about wait until the 20th Feb, or better yet, until you beta the game, before you start making these baseless threads.
ArenaNet has said like a thousand times on their Twitter page that the NDA will NOT be lifted on the 20th of February like many people have assumed. We just have to wait until "Open" Betas start.
As for the OP, there's no way in hell the DEs will fail. They've put countless hours of time into developing them and making sure there is a large variety of them (some 1500). We have to wait til release to say anything for sure, but I don't see there being anything about Guild Wars 2 that will be below the standards that Guild Wars 2 itself is setting.
What part of my post said that the NDA would be lifted on the 20th of Feb? Here's a hint, I didn't. What I did say to the uninformed OP is to wait until the 20th Feb, which is the day that the selected Press can start releasing their Beta Impressions on what they were allowed to experience.
As for the DEs themselves, I also can't see them being any worse than the current system we are stuck with (linear solo questing). So yeah, I can't see them failing but I don't think everyone will enjoy them as much as they hoped.
I think I join many others in saying I have no idea what the OP is attempting to say. It comes off as an attempt to sound intelligent without actually saying anything that makes sense. If you are, in fact, a writer, you should probably work on conveying your message a little better.
In regards to DE's, the probability of becoming 'stale' is quite small if Anet gives the game attention (as I expect they will). The reason being is that DE's are developed on standalone software. Each DE is created and tested using that software before placed into the actual 'game'. What that means in terms of becomiong stale is that, if Anet feels something is getting boring, they can quite easily add additional links to the chain or different paths to take from t hem. They've also stated they'll be adding DE's in withoutincluding them in the patch notes.
Also, the disappearance/reappearance of merchants in certain areas depending upon DE success/failure most definitely leaves a lasting imprint on the world. If an area has been abandoned by the population (for whatever reason) and there's an armor merchant you'd like to have access to, it's up to you to 'reverse' the chain. That's a pretty big deal in my eyes.
Which leads into population and how you keep zones populated. Probably the most genius part of the game is the 'downscaling' element, meaning you avoid the typical pitfalls of MMO's where everyone congregates in the high end areas (because it's the only thing challenging or valid) while leaving the lower areas completely barren. If I find a low level zone more interesting, even at max level, I can just hang out there, still get a challenge, and do the DE's.
Why suggest this be a function of these dynamic events? Firstly, the world should be immersive--plus feel alive--not purely a movie set.
Honestly, I feel other MMO's world's are far from immersive, and are clearly a movie set. Mobs troll one area, never really changes except for patrols, most of the time the worlds are static and not really contributing life into their scene's.
If the dynamic events do not have "meaningful change" the game this writer believes will have self-created a achilles heel (i.e., defining this change is difficult but should introduce a handful or more variables instead of only 1-3). Secondly, this conquest feel of the game functions to a greater degree when it is allowed more movement (i.e., world event A could gain control over an entire continent if conditions are not met etc).
Does the communitiy agree that events with low variable change over time will be the achilles heel to Guild Wars 2?
I think the OP basically doesn't understand how even "small" DEs affect the world. Say for example one where bandits take over a farm and that's pretty much it. Well... now the vendors in town won't be able to sell the products the farm was producing. Yes, that's right... vendors in towns are directly affected by DEs outside them. You want to buy some apples for cooking? None in stock. Crap, why not? Well, the farm that grows them is under bandit control. Guess what... time to take out some bandits. Regain control of the farm, now everyone in town can buy apples.
These alleged "low variable" events may not chain a lot, but they're felt.
I think the OP basically doesn't understand how even "small" DEs affect the world. Say for example one where bandits take over a farm and that's pretty much it. Well... now the vendors in town won't be able to sell the products the farm was producing. Yes, that's right... vendors in towns are directly affected by DEs outside them. You want to buy some apples for cooking? None in stock. Crap, why not? Well, the farm that grows them is under bandit control. Guess what... time to take out some bandits. Regain control of the farm, now everyone in town can buy apples.
These alleged "low variable" events may not chain a lot, but they're felt.
I agree, that, on the face of it, sounds awesome. But what about the time when that farm is already taken over, it is 6AM on your day off. You want to craft.
Guess what, you can't. Now you have to go kill off bandits instead, even though it might not be the way you want to play the game, at least at that particular moment.
DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
Originally posted by Naral Originally posted by Volkon I think the OP basically doesn't understand how even "small" DEs affect the world. Say for example one where bandits take over a farm and that's pretty much it. Well... now the vendors in town won't be able to sell the products the farm was producing. Yes, that's right... vendors in towns are directly affected by DEs outside them. You want to buy some apples for cooking? None in stock. Crap, why not? Well, the farm that grows them is under bandit control. Guess what... time to take out some bandits. Regain control of the farm, now everyone in town can buy apples. These alleged "low variable" events may not chain a lot, but they're felt.
I agree, that, on the face of it, sounds awesome. But what about the time when that farm is already taken over, it is 6AM on your day off. You want to craft. Guess what, you can't. Now you have to go kill off bandits instead, even though it might not be the way you want to play the game, at least at that particular moment. DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
If you're worried about being able to craft more than you're worried about the dynamic world, then you shouldn't be playing in a dynamic world. The point is to be part of the events and the play between the different elements. It's all part of a greater whole, including the crafting.
I would think it would make the crafting more valuable though...you didn't just make an apple pie, you made an apple pie by killing a dozen bandits.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think the OP basically doesn't understand how even "small" DEs affect the world. Say for example one where bandits take over a farm and that's pretty much it. Well... now the vendors in town won't be able to sell the products the farm was producing. Yes, that's right... vendors in towns are directly affected by DEs outside them. You want to buy some apples for cooking? None in stock. Crap, why not? Well, the farm that grows them is under bandit control. Guess what... time to take out some bandits. Regain control of the farm, now everyone in town can buy apples.
These alleged "low variable" events may not chain a lot, but they're felt.
I agree, that, on the face of it, sounds awesome. But what about the time when that farm is already taken over, it is 6AM on your day off. You want to craft.
Guess what, you can't. Now you have to go kill off bandits instead, even though it might not be the way you want to play the game, at least at that particular moment.
DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
There will need to be some changes in how we think with regards to things like crafting, this is true. For example, it may come down to realizing that you'd best take advantage of the times apples are in stock and buying plenty when they are just in case. It may also come down to taking offense with the bandits and going to kick their arses (with others, of course), getting rewarded for your efforts and possibly getting some free apples or pies right from the grateful farmers themselves.
This indeed validates that even small event chains can affect play rather significantly though, does it not? Now instead of being able to craft right away, you need to go put your stamp on the world first... a stamp that everyone else will feel the effects of as well.
Think about that a moment. What other game out there does it really matter what you do or don't do? Where else can you make a difference that significant in other people's "lives"? You kill bandits, apples for all! Best yet, the bandits don't respawn as fast as you kill them and wait for someone else to kill them... the whole event chain (and bandits) pushes back to a different state and stays there until either the bandits muster a counter-attack or the players actively take on an event to push the bandits back further, kill their leader, etc.
They've already posted many times the way these events will have changes and consequences of the world around it, your comment and poll sound as if you haven't taken the time to read up on them and simply assume that without open PvP they will be meaningless.
The PvP and PvE in GW2 is segregated. This is the way it was always meant to be and it will always be this way whether the minority is happy with it or not. Accept it, deal with it, move on to something else if that doesn't appeal to you.
Completely agree with you there. The op apparently hasn't done the research to even make a comment much less make a poll. The DE's will be more dynamic then Rift's end game and they've already demo'd them at the cons pleanty of videos longer then 20 minutes online showing just that. Not only will there be multiple objectives for said events but NPC's will be able to affect said events AND events will be changing according to timers based solely on npc/player interaction thus this will never happen (i.e., day 1 at 3am you encounter a horde of undead attacking village A and help destroy the undead by repairing the gunnery turrets that protect the village, day 2 at 3am the same event happens) this scenario won't occur because of the way their timing system works.
Secondly, major events, like the end of an event chain which is brought on by player interaction alone, will most definitely affect whole zones. PVP zones will add bonuses to the world based on player faction interaction.
Can't imagine why people keep bringing these things up when it's very simple to search youtube and google displays a multitude of websites dedicated to the information about this game on an intense level. Not to mention that the DE's will be the main focus of this game the devs have already stated this on multiple interviews and videos, the DE's will be what the dungeons are for most games.
and finally, if you want a taste of something close before GW2 comes out, play Rift. Apparently, end game Rifts are not in any way simple and can sometimes have many requirements for successful closure. It's the closest thing to what GW2 will have even tho it isn't exactly what Anet has proposed for their title.
DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
DEs in GW2 can't follow suit with WarHammer Online's Public Quests or Rift's Rifts and Invasions, for one key reason: in those 2 games the PQs and invasions were side-shows, separate activities layered on top of a traditional questing system. You could play both games all the way to max level and never do a PQ or Rift if you didn't want to.
But in GW2 there aren't quests, there are only DEs, so that is what you do in the PvE environment. They are the buzzword for GW2 because it's such a different way to structure an MMORPG. They aren't just adding this new system next to the traditional model like WH and Rift did... GW2 threw out the traditional quest hub to quest hub model and replaced it entirely with DEs. It's going to feel a lot different than WH and RIft because of that.
I played RIft and sometimes the Rifts were very annoying because I was trying to do a quest, and the objective was now under an elite Rift I couldn't hope to attack on my own. All I wanted to do was finish my quest, not gather a big group and attack this Rift. But that won't happen in GW2 because in that case the "rift" (Dynamic Event) is what I will be out there doing, it won't be an obsticle in the way of what I want to be doing.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I did not mean that I was unexcited about DEs. I am actually majorly pumped for this game, especially because they are throwing out the kitten with the washwater and starting some new ideas from scratch. I love the fact that the world has an affect of you, and vice versa. It goes a long way towards making the world feel alive.
I just think there are some problems, maybe problems we cannot even anticipate because it is so new, that people are not considering. I am super excited, but have been burned so many times with new MMOs, I think I am just a bit wary that maybe the DE will not quite live upto the hype they are generating.
That said, it is better if they try and fail, than to just go with the status quo. I will have no regrets giving them my money, just for the effort of changing the MMO world.
I guess we will know when the beta NDA gets lifted, or they have an open beta.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I did not mean that I was unexcited about DEs. I am actually majorly pumped for this game, especially because they are throwing out the kitten with the washwater and starting some new ideas from scratch. I love the fact that the world has an affect of you, and vice versa. It goes a long way towards making the world feel alive.
I just think there are some problems, maybe problems we cannot even anticipate because it is so new, that people are not considering. I am super excited, but have been burned so many times with new MMOs, I think I am just a bit wary that maybe the DE will not quite live upto the hype they are generating.
That said, it is better if they try and fail, than to just go with the status quo. I will have no regrets giving them my money, just for the effort of changing the MMO world.
I guess we will know when the beta NDA gets lifted, or they have an open beta.
I can slightly agree with you on this one since you are correct and we won't know until we get to try it for ourselves. The only real way I see DE's not living up to my own expectations is if Anet doesn't make them difficult enough for people to see the losing end of them. If we all ran around and won every single one without a problem then we won't get to experience the other side of what happens with these events. I don't see it as a loss if you don't win the event since it means I now have to regroup and see what's in store for me now that the pirates have occupied the town, or the centaurs have ran off all of the townsfolk etc... I still got some exp and karma for participating so I can't even see it as a waste of time either. To me, they have found a way to make dying feel kinda fun because of rallying, and losing a DE feel kinda exciting. WTF is that all about.... While I won't know the full extent of the system and if it works out the way I have pictured it, I still have a pretty good idea that this sounds great for me.
DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
DEs in GW2 can't follow suit with WarHammer Online's Public Quests or Rift's Rifts and Invasions, for one key reason: in those 2 games the PQs and invasions were side-shows, separate activities layered on top of a traditional questing system. You could play both games all the way to max level and never do a PQ or Rift if you didn't want to.
But in GW2 there aren't quests, there are only DEs, so that is what you do in the PvE environment. They are the buzzword for GW2 because it's such a different way to structure an MMORPG. They aren't just adding this new system next to the traditional model like WH and Rift did... GW2 threw out the traditional quest hub to quest hub model and replaced it entirely with DEs. It's going to feel a lot different than WH and RIft because of that.
I played RIft and sometimes the Rifts were very annoying because I was trying to do a quest, and the objective was now under an elite Rift I couldn't hope to attack on my own. All I wanted to do was finish my quest, not gather a big group and attack this Rift. But that won't happen in GW2 because in that case the "rift" (Dynamic Event) is what I will be out there doing, it won't be an obsticle in the way of what I want to be doing.
^This. People still seem to think GW2 is going to have quest hubs. It. Will. Not. Have. Quest. Hubs. The "quests" you recieve is based upon the environment you are in. It breaks from the hand holding lineraity and allows exploration since the PvE objectives are environment based.
People just following the flow of things will have a great time in this game... moving from a to b and further as the event leads them... People sticking to one place and grinding it, will be dissapointed.... Don't think and just act naturally and fight whatever the game throws at you while trying to acheive the goals of the evetns.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by aionix ^This. People still seem to think GW2 is going to have quest hubs. It. Will. Not. Have. Quest. Hubs. The "quests" you recieve is based upon the environment you are in. It breaks from the hand holding lineraity and allows exploration since the PvE objectives are environment based.
It is much more like one long quest, but there will be quests. Your personal story line will be one long quest chain, which changes and evolves based on the decisions you make. It is largely instanced and is separate from the open world.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
^This. People still seem to think GW2 is going to have quest hubs. It. Will. Not. Have. Quest. Hubs. The "quests" you recieve is based upon the environment you are in. It breaks from the hand holding lineraity and allows exploration since the PvE objectives are environment based.
It is much more like one long quest, but there will be quests. Your personal story line will be one long quest chain, which changes and evolves based on the decisions you make. It is largely instanced and is separate from the open world.
Right. I separate the personal story though from the general quest hub kind of leveling people are used to.
Originally posted by aionix Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by aionix
^This. People still seem to think GW2 is going to have quest hubs. It. Will. Not. Have. Quest. Hubs. The "quests" you recieve is based upon the environment you are in. It breaks from the hand holding lineraity and allows exploration since the PvE objectives are environment based.
It is much more like one long quest, but there will be quests. Your personal story line will be one long quest chain, which changes and evolves based on the decisions you make. It is largely instanced and is separate from the open world.
Right. I separate the personal story though from the general quest hub kind of leveling people are used to.
Oh yeah. It is not the same old thing. I think it's also mostly an option, not a requirement. You have your initial tutorial that starts the story line and then you're off. You can head out into the open world and never look back if you want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
To me, despite their name, the major draw of dynamic events isn't that they're dynamic, it's that they're cooperative. Doing anything in an MMO because it changes the world (without phasing) is pretty much a waste of time. It's going to change back later. Being dynamic is just a nice bonus for immersion, for replayability, and to keep people together as they progress across the map.
What DEs are going to provide is a fully cooperative experience. Unlike quests which are isolating, GW2 will be all about making people want to see other people. You get more xp and loot as you kill things, and you get more chaotic events as they scale up, but you also get companionship. They've seen it even in playtesting where people who only intended to solo started talking to other people just because there's really no reason not to (though if you want to be alone, you can just go off on your own as well).
The key will be whether or not the DEs are interesting. Just like you can have games which put a lot of effort into different types of quests and stories, you can also have games which put in a lot of lame, repetitive quests. This is a blog post which speaks to this, whethere they talk about having 4 of the same event and they changed to make them more interesting. http://www.arena.net/blog/norn-week-designing-and-redesigning-events As long as ArenaNet doesn't get lazy, and keeps adding DEs regularly, I think people are going to be very happy to keep seeing what the world has to offer.
I think it is important to point out that DE's have persistance in the world. Meaning they don't change unless players change them back. I may just be reading this wrong (very likely because it is Cali) but things don't just change back on their own. There are no permanent changes to the world outside of personal stories, but they don't just change back on their own.
Eric Flannum explained this in a pax east panel on Dynamic events.
If you have an hour listen to the whole thing, you will gain an understand DE's and how the work. I broke it down in Cali's thread of Compliation of Know Dynamic Events if it makes it easier.
Doing anything in an MMO because it changes the world (without phasing) is pretty much a waste of time. It's going to change back later.
Actually, it really depends on the DE. If a village is taken over by centaurs, it will stay taken over forever until players save it. However, if you save a village from centaurs, it WILL get taken over again unless players in the future save it from some future assault. The inevitable outcome without player intervention is that the centaurs win.
(Having NPCs capable of defending themselves would make for a pretty boring game. Though at least it would be more realistic, unlike those other games where the level 50 questgiver needs your level 4 self to save the city, rofl)
Anyway, my point was just that doing something for the sole purpose of changing the world in a persistent (but not permanent) MMO is pretty lame. Not to bash Rift, but to use it as a current example. If an invasion is attacking the Gloamwood town for the first time, of course you rush to its defense. But when it happens every time you're in town, you stop caring. You can't save the town. You can't "win." It gets to the point where you only destroy the invasion or the foothold if it interferes with your turning in a quest or accessing a merchant or whatever.
The reason GW2 will be different is because the game is nonlinear (and the major cities are safe and there's instant teleportation to them so you can have a true respite). You wander the world, you see trouble and you go help. You're doing it because it's fun, it advances your character, you get rewarded, you get to kill things. Essentially you do it for the reasons you do a traditional MMO quest, even though you know that resets 2 seconds after you're gone. That DEs "change the world" is a nice immersive bonus on top of that, but it's not going to be what sustains your interest because visiting the same area again is going to kill your illusion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
i think the definition of a 'low variable' could do with a bit of 'explaining' but, with the Realm v Realm PvP being the main draw, the Pve aspect is pretty much icing on the cake, as without the realm v realm PvP the game would be pretty mediocre at best.
Doing anything in an MMO because it changes the world (without phasing) is pretty much a waste of time. It's going to change back later.
Actually, it really depends on the DE. If a village is taken over by centaurs, it will stay taken over forever until players save it. However, if you save a village from centaurs, it WILL get taken over again unless players in the future save it from some future assault. The inevitable outcome without player intervention is that the centaurs win.
(Having NPCs capable of defending themselves would make for a pretty boring game. Though at least it would be more realistic, unlike those other games where the level 50 questgiver needs your level 4 self to save the city, rofl)
Anyway, my point was just that doing something for the sole purpose of changing the world in a persistent (but not permanent) MMO is pretty lame. Not to bash Rift, but to use it as a current example. If an invasion is attacking the Gloamwood town for the first time, of course you rush to its defense. But when it happens every time you're in town, you stop caring. You can't save the town. You can't "win." It gets to the point where you only destroy the invasion or the foothold if it interferes with your turning in a quest or accessing a merchant or whatever.
The reason GW2 will be different is because the game is nonlinear (and the major cities are safe and there's instant teleportation to them so you can have a true respite). You wander the world, you see trouble and you go help. You're doing it because it's fun, it advances your character, you get rewarded, you get to kill things. Essentially you do it for the reasons you do a traditional MMO quest, even though you know that resets 2 seconds after you're gone. That DEs "change the world" is a nice immersive bonus on top of that, but it's not going to be what sustains your interest because visiting the same area again is going to kill your illusion.
See I knew I was missing what you were trying to say. Excellent follow-up explanation. I agree completely. Sorry for missing it the first time, I have been tainted by my WOW buddies I play with. I have been explaining GW2 to them but they don't quite get it yet. I think the DE's are the most mis-understood part of GW2. It's hard for the to image a different way to quest.
The Rift reference may help, I am doing the Rift free trial with one of them, and we participated in a Rift last night. Explaining the difference between the two might get him over the hump.
i think the definition of a 'low variable' could do with a bit of 'explaining' but, with the Realm v Realm PvP being the main draw, the Pve aspect is pretty much icing on the cake, as without the realm v realm PvP the game would be pretty mediocre at best.
Same without Pve...
Isn't that crazy/scary?
Both are considered icing to the cake to different people...
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Why do you say "this writer" instead of "I"? Everything you posted is long-winded and hard to understand. That entire first paragraph is a huge awkward sentence. What do you even mean by "low variable"? Honestly, it's like your post was written by some kind of alien. None of your other posts are written like this. Is this some kind of new posting gimmick? I also can't make any sense of your poll other than option 3, which appears intended to defame anyone who disagrees with you.
Are you honestly complaining that DEs aren't complex enough because of a lack of open PvP? There's a good chance GW2 isn't the game for you. GW2 is a themepark game. Your post (if I'm understanding it correctly) is asking for the world to feel more "immersive". This is not the priority in a themepark game.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Here's the thing man, you've pretty much brought up what would be a great issue if it wasn't already addressed. There will be a lot of DEs when the game launches, and yes... that whole portion of the game world is solely based around DEs. There are other portions though, off the top of my head there is also a WvWvW area that you can participate in as well as towns that offer you a hub to play your personal storyline, compete in mini-games, and craft - huge parts of the game to some players.
In addition there is Conquest which acts like a competitve PvP environment a la Counterstrike and League.
Now what do you notice about everything I've listed here?
You should notice that it's all segregated, so that players can choose what they want to play and when. WvWvW is a mix of everything, so if you want the whole pie - hit that area. Anet has thought of the problem you listed and has rectified it with words at this point. Those words are something to the effect of a promise to constantly add new Dynamic Events and sometimes without the players knowledge.
They will probably be added much with the same frequency of League of Legends champions. I'd like you to at least reply, and to see if this takes the critical out of your eye.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Comments
Dynamic events in the starter areas will likely be on short chains, maybe two or three steps only, seems the logical way to ensure there's always something to jump in to straight away. There were plenty of things happening in the Charr starter area, I doubt any of them chained to any great length, if in fact some of them chained at all. Various areas were in constant state of attack, if the chain had a defeat outcome then action in that immediate area could dry up. I can see that being an achilles heal, but only in the way that critics would be quick to judge that the starting areas events didn't chain, or didn't have any real effect on the world.
What part of my post said that the NDA would be lifted on the 20th of Feb? Here's a hint, I didn't. What I did say to the uninformed OP is to wait until the 20th Feb, which is the day that the selected Press can start releasing their Beta Impressions on what they were allowed to experience.
As for the DEs themselves, I also can't see them being any worse than the current system we are stuck with (linear solo questing). So yeah, I can't see them failing but I don't think everyone will enjoy them as much as they hoped.
I don't understand what the OP is stating. It seems like technobabble.
So are you saying dynamic events will become stale or something? As opposed to what? Quests?
I think I join many others in saying I have no idea what the OP is attempting to say. It comes off as an attempt to sound intelligent without actually saying anything that makes sense. If you are, in fact, a writer, you should probably work on conveying your message a little better.
In regards to DE's, the probability of becoming 'stale' is quite small if Anet gives the game attention (as I expect they will). The reason being is that DE's are developed on standalone software. Each DE is created and tested using that software before placed into the actual 'game'. What that means in terms of becomiong stale is that, if Anet feels something is getting boring, they can quite easily add additional links to the chain or different paths to take from t hem. They've also stated they'll be adding DE's in without including them in the patch notes.
Also, the disappearance/reappearance of merchants in certain areas depending upon DE success/failure most definitely leaves a lasting imprint on the world. If an area has been abandoned by the population (for whatever reason) and there's an armor merchant you'd like to have access to, it's up to you to 'reverse' the chain. That's a pretty big deal in my eyes.
Which leads into population and how you keep zones populated. Probably the most genius part of the game is the 'downscaling' element, meaning you avoid the typical pitfalls of MMO's where everyone congregates in the high end areas (because it's the only thing challenging or valid) while leaving the lower areas completely barren. If I find a low level zone more interesting, even at max level, I can just hang out there, still get a challenge, and do the DE's.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
I think the OP basically doesn't understand how even "small" DEs affect the world. Say for example one where bandits take over a farm and that's pretty much it. Well... now the vendors in town won't be able to sell the products the farm was producing. Yes, that's right... vendors in towns are directly affected by DEs outside them. You want to buy some apples for cooking? None in stock. Crap, why not? Well, the farm that grows them is under bandit control. Guess what... time to take out some bandits. Regain control of the farm, now everyone in town can buy apples.
These alleged "low variable" events may not chain a lot, but they're felt.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I agree, that, on the face of it, sounds awesome. But what about the time when that farm is already taken over, it is 6AM on your day off. You want to craft.
Guess what, you can't. Now you have to go kill off bandits instead, even though it might not be the way you want to play the game, at least at that particular moment.
DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
Guess what, you can't. Now you have to go kill off bandits instead, even though it might not be the way you want to play the game, at least at that particular moment.
DEs will be cool, but I think they have become the buzzword for GW2, a lot like VO was for SWTOR. I think if they become too much of what people are looking for, they can find themselves let down. A lot of hype is building about the DE's, and i know that even for suggesting caution, I should probably put on a flame retardant suit, but as new as they are, if they are not brought to life, they could easily follow suit with WO's PQ and the Rift invasions. They became annoying to many, more than fun, at least after the first month or two.
If you're worried about being able to craft more than you're worried about the dynamic world, then you shouldn't be playing in a dynamic world. The point is to be part of the events and the play between the different elements. It's all part of a greater whole, including the crafting.
I would think it would make the crafting more valuable though...you didn't just make an apple pie, you made an apple pie by killing a dozen bandits.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There will need to be some changes in how we think with regards to things like crafting, this is true. For example, it may come down to realizing that you'd best take advantage of the times apples are in stock and buying plenty when they are just in case. It may also come down to taking offense with the bandits and going to kick their arses (with others, of course), getting rewarded for your efforts and possibly getting some free apples or pies right from the grateful farmers themselves.
This indeed validates that even small event chains can affect play rather significantly though, does it not? Now instead of being able to craft right away, you need to go put your stamp on the world first... a stamp that everyone else will feel the effects of as well.
Think about that a moment. What other game out there does it really matter what you do or don't do? Where else can you make a difference that significant in other people's "lives"? You kill bandits, apples for all! Best yet, the bandits don't respawn as fast as you kill them and wait for someone else to kill them... the whole event chain (and bandits) pushes back to a different state and stays there until either the bandits muster a counter-attack or the players actively take on an event to push the bandits back further, kill their leader, etc.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Completely agree with you there. The op apparently hasn't done the research to even make a comment much less make a poll. The DE's will be more dynamic then Rift's end game and they've already demo'd them at the cons pleanty of videos longer then 20 minutes online showing just that. Not only will there be multiple objectives for said events but NPC's will be able to affect said events AND events will be changing according to timers based solely on npc/player interaction thus this will never happen (i.e., day 1 at 3am you encounter a horde of undead attacking village A and help destroy the undead by repairing the gunnery turrets that protect the village, day 2 at 3am the same event happens) this scenario won't occur because of the way their timing system works.
Secondly, major events, like the end of an event chain which is brought on by player interaction alone, will most definitely affect whole zones. PVP zones will add bonuses to the world based on player faction interaction.
Can't imagine why people keep bringing these things up when it's very simple to search youtube and google displays a multitude of websites dedicated to the information about this game on an intense level. Not to mention that the DE's will be the main focus of this game the devs have already stated this on multiple interviews and videos, the DE's will be what the dungeons are for most games.
and finally, if you want a taste of something close before GW2 comes out, play Rift. Apparently, end game Rifts are not in any way simple and can sometimes have many requirements for successful closure. It's the closest thing to what GW2 will have even tho it isn't exactly what Anet has proposed for their title.
DEs in GW2 can't follow suit with WarHammer Online's Public Quests or Rift's Rifts and Invasions, for one key reason: in those 2 games the PQs and invasions were side-shows, separate activities layered on top of a traditional questing system. You could play both games all the way to max level and never do a PQ or Rift if you didn't want to.
But in GW2 there aren't quests, there are only DEs, so that is what you do in the PvE environment. They are the buzzword for GW2 because it's such a different way to structure an MMORPG. They aren't just adding this new system next to the traditional model like WH and Rift did... GW2 threw out the traditional quest hub to quest hub model and replaced it entirely with DEs. It's going to feel a lot different than WH and RIft because of that.
I played RIft and sometimes the Rifts were very annoying because I was trying to do a quest, and the objective was now under an elite Rift I couldn't hope to attack on my own. All I wanted to do was finish my quest, not gather a big group and attack this Rift. But that won't happen in GW2 because in that case the "rift" (Dynamic Event) is what I will be out there doing, it won't be an obsticle in the way of what I want to be doing.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I did not mean that I was unexcited about DEs. I am actually majorly pumped for this game, especially because they are throwing out the kitten with the washwater and starting some new ideas from scratch. I love the fact that the world has an affect of you, and vice versa. It goes a long way towards making the world feel alive.
I just think there are some problems, maybe problems we cannot even anticipate because it is so new, that people are not considering. I am super excited, but have been burned so many times with new MMOs, I think I am just a bit wary that maybe the DE will not quite live upto the hype they are generating.
That said, it is better if they try and fail, than to just go with the status quo. I will have no regrets giving them my money, just for the effort of changing the MMO world.
I guess we will know when the beta NDA gets lifted, or they have an open beta.
I can slightly agree with you on this one since you are correct and we won't know until we get to try it for ourselves. The only real way I see DE's not living up to my own expectations is if Anet doesn't make them difficult enough for people to see the losing end of them. If we all ran around and won every single one without a problem then we won't get to experience the other side of what happens with these events. I don't see it as a loss if you don't win the event since it means I now have to regroup and see what's in store for me now that the pirates have occupied the town, or the centaurs have ran off all of the townsfolk etc... I still got some exp and karma for participating so I can't even see it as a waste of time either. To me, they have found a way to make dying feel kinda fun because of rallying, and losing a DE feel kinda exciting. WTF is that all about.... While I won't know the full extent of the system and if it works out the way I have pictured it, I still have a pretty good idea that this sounds great for me.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
^This. People still seem to think GW2 is going to have quest hubs. It. Will. Not. Have. Quest. Hubs. The "quests" you recieve is based upon the environment you are in. It breaks from the hand holding lineraity and allows exploration since the PvE objectives are environment based.
People just following the flow of things will have a great time in this game... moving from a to b and further as the event leads them... People sticking to one place and grinding it, will be dissapointed.... Don't think and just act naturally and fight whatever the game throws at you while trying to acheive the goals of the evetns.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_storyline
It is much more like one long quest, but there will be quests. Your personal story line will be one long quest chain, which changes and evolves based on the decisions you make. It is largely instanced and is separate from the open world.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Right. I separate the personal story though from the general quest hub kind of leveling people are used to.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_storyline
It is much more like one long quest, but there will be quests. Your personal story line will be one long quest chain, which changes and evolves based on the decisions you make. It is largely instanced and is separate from the open world.
Right. I separate the personal story though from the general quest hub kind of leveling people are used to.
Oh yeah. It is not the same old thing. I think it's also mostly an option, not a requirement. You have your initial tutorial that starts the story line and then you're off. You can head out into the open world and never look back if you want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think it is important to point out that DE's have persistance in the world. Meaning they don't change unless players change them back. I may just be reading this wrong (very likely because it is Cali) but things don't just change back on their own. There are no permanent changes to the world outside of personal stories, but they don't just change back on their own.
Eric Flannum explained this in a pax east panel on Dynamic events.
http://youtu.be/nD8aKF0xvU4?t=7m
If you have an hour listen to the whole thing, you will gain an understand DE's and how the work. I broke it down in Cali's thread of Compliation of Know Dynamic Events if it makes it easier.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/338403/Compilation-of-Known-Dynamic-Events.html
Actually, it really depends on the DE. If a village is taken over by centaurs, it will stay taken over forever until players save it. However, if you save a village from centaurs, it WILL get taken over again unless players in the future save it from some future assault. The inevitable outcome without player intervention is that the centaurs win.
(Having NPCs capable of defending themselves would make for a pretty boring game. Though at least it would be more realistic, unlike those other games where the level 50 questgiver needs your level 4 self to save the city, rofl)
Anyway, my point was just that doing something for the sole purpose of changing the world in a persistent (but not permanent) MMO is pretty lame. Not to bash Rift, but to use it as a current example. If an invasion is attacking the Gloamwood town for the first time, of course you rush to its defense. But when it happens every time you're in town, you stop caring. You can't save the town. You can't "win." It gets to the point where you only destroy the invasion or the foothold if it interferes with your turning in a quest or accessing a merchant or whatever.
The reason GW2 will be different is because the game is nonlinear (and the major cities are safe and there's instant teleportation to them so you can have a true respite). You wander the world, you see trouble and you go help. You're doing it because it's fun, it advances your character, you get rewarded, you get to kill things. Essentially you do it for the reasons you do a traditional MMO quest, even though you know that resets 2 seconds after you're gone. That DEs "change the world" is a nice immersive bonus on top of that, but it's not going to be what sustains your interest because visiting the same area again is going to kill your illusion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
i think the definition of a 'low variable' could do with a bit of 'explaining' but, with the Realm v Realm PvP being the main draw, the Pve aspect is pretty much icing on the cake, as without the realm v realm PvP the game would be pretty mediocre at best.
See I knew I was missing what you were trying to say.
Excellent follow-up explanation. I agree completely. Sorry for missing it the first time, I have been tainted by my WOW buddies I play with. I have been explaining GW2 to them but they don't quite get it yet. I think the DE's are the most mis-understood part of GW2. It's hard for the to image a different way to quest. 
The Rift reference may help, I am doing the Rift free trial with one of them, and we participated in a Rift last night. Explaining the difference between the two might get him over the hump.
Same without Pve...
Isn't that crazy/scary?
Both are considered icing to the cake to different people...
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Why do you say "this writer" instead of "I"? Everything you posted is long-winded and hard to understand. That entire first paragraph is a huge awkward sentence. What do you even mean by "low variable"? Honestly, it's like your post was written by some kind of alien. None of your other posts are written like this. Is this some kind of new posting gimmick? I also can't make any sense of your poll other than option 3, which appears intended to defame anyone who disagrees with you.
Are you honestly complaining that DEs aren't complex enough because of a lack of open PvP? There's a good chance GW2 isn't the game for you. GW2 is a themepark game. Your post (if I'm understanding it correctly) is asking for the world to feel more "immersive". This is not the priority in a themepark game.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Sohjin,
Here's the thing man, you've pretty much brought up what would be a great issue if it wasn't already addressed. There will be a lot of DEs when the game launches, and yes... that whole portion of the game world is solely based around DEs. There are other portions though, off the top of my head there is also a WvWvW area that you can participate in as well as towns that offer you a hub to play your personal storyline, compete in mini-games, and craft - huge parts of the game to some players.
In addition there is Conquest which acts like a competitve PvP environment a la Counterstrike and League.
Now what do you notice about everything I've listed here?
You should notice that it's all segregated, so that players can choose what they want to play and when. WvWvW is a mix of everything, so if you want the whole pie - hit that area. Anet has thought of the problem you listed and has rectified it with words at this point. Those words are something to the effect of a promise to constantly add new Dynamic Events and sometimes without the players knowledge.
They will probably be added much with the same frequency of League of Legends champions. I'd like you to at least reply, and to see if this takes the critical out of your eye.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan