Anyone who is a hardcore pvp'er is not playing swtor.
Good because they're mostly idiots.
People enjoy PVP when they win and bitch when they don't. There's NO exceptions. When they lose it's the developer's fault for not balancing their chosen class exactly how they want it.
The last MMO that was completely screwed up in terms of balance was EQ. The gulf between classes has never been bigger since. Rogue/assassin classes are always going to be a pain in the butt. They're built to be devious and cheap so it shouldn't be a surprise when they annoy the piss out of people in PVP.
To the OP, I don't see a steep decline coming soon for TOR. TPM 3D will spawn a whole generation of sith assassins and keep the game visible during the crappy winter sales season. New players are coming in all the time who aren't like some of the grizzled jackwads here who raced to 50 and burned themselves out on MMOs years ago.
For now, they are the fastest growing sub-based MMO in history. So, the decline you are talking about has not happened yet, OP.
[citation needed]
BiowarEA said it. That makes it true and not just PR speak right?
Also on topic. I have yet to see an MMO make a game more hardcore so I would assume they would try to make it more casual... Which I am not sure is possible without removing all MMOsness by leting someone solo FPs and Heroics.
Here is where people always lose me. "The company made up the numbers." Yeah, OK. Don't get me wrong. I hate massive companies, but they are not allowed to just randomly say stuff like "we have 1.7 million active subscribers" and it not be true, without concrete evidence that they can show to share holders. If they even stretched the numbers a little, the sharks on Wall Street would eat them alive.
People said this crap with Warcraft and who knows what other companies besides Bioware, but it's just wrong. These press releases have concrete data that goes straight tp the primary share holders, who ultimately determine the fate of the company.
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For now, they are the fastest growing sub-based MMO in history. So, the decline you are talking about has not happened yet, OP.
On what period? With any game if we move to infitesimal time frame they have sold realy fast too... I wouldn't put too much weight in growth in first month... The real issue is 3, 6, 9 and 12 months in and then later...
I do agree they shouldn't make any drastic changes in panic. Alienating current players is certain way to death.
TRUE op.any change more then 3% from lunch better have good reason once the first 3month are done.and player resub you ask those that resubbed their opinion
For now, they are the fastest growing sub-based MMO in history. So, the decline you are talking about has not happened yet, OP.
On what period? With any game if we move to infitesimal time frame they have sold realy fast too... I wouldn't put too much weight in growth in first month... The real issue is 3, 6, 9 and 12 months in and then later...
I do agree they shouldn't make any drastic changes in panic. Alienating current players is certain way to death.
I am not the one who made the thread at this point in time. Just sayin'.
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Anyone who is a hardcore pvp'er is not playing swtor.
Good because they're mostly idiots.
People enjoy PVP when they win and bitch when they don't. There's NO exceptions. When they lose it's the developer's fault for not balancing their chosen class exactly how they want it.
The last MMO that was completely screwed up in terms of balance was EQ. The gulf between classes has never been bigger since. Rogue/assassin classes are always going to be a pain in the butt. They're built to be devious and cheap so it shouldn't be a surprise when they annoy the piss out of people in PVP.
To the OP, I don't see a steep decline coming soon for TOR. TPM 3D will spawn a whole generation of sith assassins and keep the game visible during the crappy winter sales season. New players are coming in all the time who aren't like some of the grizzled jackwads here who raced to 50 and burned themselves out on MMOs years ago.
Am i a "hardcore pvper"? I dunno, but i mostly PvP in MMOs so i'll say i am. On to the topic at hand....
I don't feel like an "idiot".
I also don't bitch when i lose. If i never lost, winning wouldn't be so much fun. You can stop generalizing anytime, but i doubt it.
I do however bitch when "the most experienced PvP developers in the world" create an open PvP area, and then allow win trading to take place without repercussion. I do believe, they said I would be "blown away" by Ilum. I suppose i was, but not for the reasons they probably think. Thats why this "hardcore" pvper stopped his sub.. The development team doesnt even have enough pride in their game to stop win trading.
I'm getting off topic so I'll stop. I just wanted to pipe in, as I would hate for people to think i'm an idiot, and all i do is bitch when i lose.
Anyone who is a hardcore pvp'er is not playing swtor.
Good because they're mostly idiots.
People enjoy PVP when they win and bitch when they don't. There's NO exceptions. When they lose it's the developer's fault for not balancing their chosen class exactly how they want it.
The last MMO that was completely screwed up in terms of balance was EQ. The gulf between classes has never been bigger since. Rogue/assassin classes are always going to be a pain in the butt. They're built to be devious and cheap so it shouldn't be a surprise when they annoy the piss out of people in PVP.
To the OP, I don't see a steep decline coming soon for TOR. TPM 3D will spawn a whole generation of sith assassins and keep the game visible during the crappy winter sales season. New players are coming in all the time who aren't like some of the grizzled jackwads here who raced to 50 and burned themselves out on MMOs years ago.
Am i a "hardcore pvper"? I dunno, but i mostly PvP in MMOs so i'll say i am. On to the topic at hand....
I don't feel like an "idiot".
I also don't bitch when i lose. If i never lost, winning wouldn't be so much fun. You can stop generalizing anytime, but i doubt it.
I do however bitch when "the most experienced PvP developers in the world" create an open PvP area, and then allow win trading to take place without repercussion. I do believe, they said I would be "blown away" by Ilum. I suppose i was, but not for the reasons they probably think. Thats why this "hardcore" pvper stopped his sub.. The development team doesnt even have enough pride in their game to stop win trading.
I'm getting off topic so I'll stop. I just wanted to pipe in, as I would hate for people to think i'm an idiot, and all i do is bitch when i lose.
Have a nice day.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
DAOC, GW1 (although not really an MMO).. lineage 2, Aion, mostly asian games it seems but one thing is for sure PVP has never really worked with only 2 factions ever
Anyone who is a hardcore pvp'er is not playing swtor.
Good because they're mostly idiots.
People enjoy PVP when they win and bitch when they don't. There's NO exceptions. When they lose it's the developer's fault for not balancing their chosen class exactly how they want it.
The last MMO that was completely screwed up in terms of balance was EQ. The gulf between classes has never been bigger since. Rogue/assassin classes are always going to be a pain in the butt. They're built to be devious and cheap so it shouldn't be a surprise when they annoy the piss out of people in PVP.
To the OP, I don't see a steep decline coming soon for TOR. TPM 3D will spawn a whole generation of sith assassins and keep the game visible during the crappy winter sales season. New players are coming in all the time who aren't like some of the grizzled jackwads here who raced to 50 and burned themselves out on MMOs years ago.
Am i a "hardcore pvper"? I dunno, but i mostly PvP in MMOs so i'll say i am. On to the topic at hand....
I don't feel like an "idiot".
I also don't bitch when i lose. If i never lost, winning wouldn't be so much fun. You can stop generalizing anytime, but i doubt it.
I do however bitch when "the most experienced PvP developers in the world" create an open PvP area, and then allow win trading to take place without repercussion. I do believe, they said I would be "blown away" by Ilum. I suppose i was, but not for the reasons they probably think. Thats why this "hardcore" pvper stopped his sub.. The development team doesnt even have enough pride in their game to stop win trading.
I'm getting off topic so I'll stop. I just wanted to pipe in, as I would hate for people to think i'm an idiot, and all i do is bitch when i lose.
Have a nice day.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
So let me get this straight.
I like to PvP, and in a game where the best way to progress my character in PvP is to stand in an open field and "trade wins" with someone.
No skill, no tactics, just stand there and beat on each other. The developers, who went through all this exhaustive work, to get their PvP good enough for release, has no problems with this.
And I'm a mouth breather?
really?
So i should pay these people $15 dollars a month to play whack-a-mole?
Sounds great.
Or i can skip doing that, and get my arse handed to me by people who work this system everytime i step out on the field.
I hope Bioware doesnt cave either. They are one of the best at single player RPG's and SWTOR is no diffrent. No, I'm not taking a shot at SWTOR. I knew going into the game it wasnt what I wanted but I did want to see a storyline or two in the first month and I did accomplish that. To me it was worth the box price for it. Bioware did deliver on the storyline.
Rofl kinda funny that you as a fan " not taking a shot at SWTOR ", are saying exactly what we as non-fans say.
SWTOR is a SINGLE PLAYER RPG.
To say they are the fastest growing MMO is a lie based on the MMO part alone who cares about the lie about the sells and sub numbers.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
An excuse? I mean it couldn't be that it simply isn't very good in design or anything.
You use Warhammer as proof of this? Really?
I can think of a few games that PvPers enjoyed and reminisce about (to almost annoying degrees I might add) so not sure why it is so difficult for you.
Mouth breathers? You get corpse camped or something while getting accidentally flagged? Sure have a lot of pent up anger directed at PvP players.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I hope Bioware doesnt cave either. They are one of the best at single player RPG's and SWTOR is no diffrent. No, I'm not taking a shot at SWTOR. I knew going into the game it wasnt what I wanted but I did want to see a storyline or two in the first month and I did accomplish that. To me it was worth the box price for it. Bioware did deliver on the storyline.
I agree with underlined statement. That is what TOR was always meant to be. Why they got off point on that I don't understand. Well i do under$tand but I $till don't like it.
One more time for the PvPers: <waves hand> This is not the game you are looking for!
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Anyone who is a hardcore pvp'er is not playing swtor.
Good because they're mostly idiots.
People enjoy PVP when they win and bitch when they don't. There's NO exceptions. When they lose it's the developer's fault for not balancing their chosen class exactly how they want it.
The last MMO that was completely screwed up in terms of balance was EQ. The gulf between classes has never been bigger since. Rogue/assassin classes are always going to be a pain in the butt. They're built to be devious and cheap so it shouldn't be a surprise when they annoy the piss out of people in PVP.
To the OP, I don't see a steep decline coming soon for TOR. TPM 3D will spawn a whole generation of sith assassins and keep the game visible during the crappy winter sales season. New players are coming in all the time who aren't like some of the grizzled jackwads here who raced to 50 and burned themselves out on MMOs years ago.
Am i a "hardcore pvper"? I dunno, but i mostly PvP in MMOs so i'll say i am. On to the topic at hand....
I don't feel like an "idiot".
I also don't bitch when i lose. If i never lost, winning wouldn't be so much fun. You can stop generalizing anytime, but i doubt it.
I do however bitch when "the most experienced PvP developers in the world" create an open PvP area, and then allow win trading to take place without repercussion. I do believe, they said I would be "blown away" by Ilum. I suppose i was, but not for the reasons they probably think. Thats why this "hardcore" pvper stopped his sub.. The development team doesnt even have enough pride in their game to stop win trading.
I'm getting off topic so I'll stop. I just wanted to pipe in, as I would hate for people to think i'm an idiot, and all i do is bitch when i lose.
Have a nice day.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
PvPers didn't hate WAR because they're PvPers, they hated WAR because it was a bad game.
I hope Bioware doesnt cave either. They are one of the best at single player RPG's and SWTOR is no diffrent. No, I'm not taking a shot at SWTOR. I knew going into the game it wasnt what I wanted but I did want to see a storyline or two in the first month and I did accomplish that. To me it was worth the box price for it. Bioware did deliver on the storyline.
Rofl kinda funny that you as a fan " not taking a shot at SWTOR ", are saying exactly what we as non-fans say.
SWTOR is a SINGLE PLAYER RPG.
To say they are the fastest growing MMO is a lie based on the MMO part alone who cares about the lie about the sells and sub numbers.
Sorry... no?
I am a REAL fan of SW. have been since the 70's.
I also say that TOR should be about the story. What is wrong with a MMO that delivers a single-player story-driven experience? You still can do all the quest as a MMO group if you want. A choice is nice to have. Choice is good.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
An excuse? I mean it couldn't be that it simply isn't very good in design or anything.
You use Warhammer as proof of this? Really?
I can think of a few games that PvPers enjoyed and reminisce about (to almost annoying degrees I might add) so not sure why it is so difficult for you.
Mouth breathers? You get corpse camped or something while getting accidentally flagged? Sure have a lot of pent up anger directed at PvP players.
Oh really? Go ahead and list them. That way I can use them as an example of MMOs that PVPers actually like and I can say "Here's a good PVP MMO. If you're hardcore PVP, you'll enjoy this".
let the hardcore PVP leave when will people get it PVP games are a niche accept it when you cater to PVP you end up with low sub numbers and before any of you say wow shut it wow is a PVE MMO with PVP more as something to do when raids are locked out. If you count wow as a PVE game whats the highest sub p2p PVP game ? Any over a mil sub in the west ?
Cater to PVP you might as well close your game.
GW1 had a strong PVP focus and over a million players
Games like WAR had big numbers at launch, there is a market for better PVP, unfortunatley most of the PVP games are buggy as hell
War flopped HARD. The market for a big time MMO with 2-3 mil subs doesnt exist for a PVP game period.
There is only one mmo that has 2-3 million subs so your statement is quite stupid really.
No its not that is what any company that wants to invest 200 mil into a game is aiming at taking subs from WOW and retaining them. Do you think a PVP game would do that ? No it wouldnt. This is a business I'm not going to invest 200 mil on a game that only attracts a small % of the market.
well wow wouldn't have the numbers it has today without the pvp aspect to it. A purely pve mmo will never reach 2-3 million subs..I think you under estimate the amount of pvp'ers that are out there. look at bizzards annual tournaments they're all about competitive pvp.
Now..I do not have stats.....but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of WOW's 4 million or so western subs are not paid by PvP enthusiasts.
Here is where people always lose me. "The company made up the numbers." Yeah, OK. Don't get me wrong. I hate massive companies, but they are not allowed to just randomly say stuff like "we have 1.7 million active subscribers" and it not be true, without concrete evidence that they can show to share holders. If they even stretched the numbers a little, the sharks on Wall Street would eat them alive.
I have never seen anyone claiming the 1.7 million number is a lie. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of paying subscribers though.
If someone asks you how many apples you have and you respond I have X number of apples and oranges, did you lie?
The same thing with EA, instead of stating how many paying subscribers they played the silly word game of counting every single person who bought the game and started playing an 'active subscriber'.
EA's stock is down some 20 percent since the launch of the game. Wallstreet is showing exactly what they think of the future revenue and profits this game will bring to the company.
From the time I played on my roommate's account this past week on a Heavy/Very Heavy server and the mostly empty worlds even during peak times makes me feel the game doesn't even have a million paying subscribers. And why EA wasn't will to come right out and state exactly how many paying subscribers they have.
I hope Bioware doesnt cave either. They are one of the best at single player RPG's and SWTOR is no diffrent. No, I'm not taking a shot at SWTOR. I knew going into the game it wasnt what I wanted but I did want to see a storyline or two in the first month and I did accomplish that. To me it was worth the box price for it. Bioware did deliver on the storyline.
Rofl kinda funny that you as a fan " not taking a shot at SWTOR ", are saying exactly what we as non-fans say.
SWTOR is a SINGLE PLAYER RPG.
To say they are the fastest growing MMO is a lie based on the MMO part alone who cares about the lie about the sells and sub numbers.
Any mmo with a very popular IP always sells boxes to people who will not like the mechanics or interpretation of that IP. When this happens, the first few months usually shows a decline in total subscriptions.
In the past, companies have knee-jerked to this trend, and made drastic changes to try to appeal to the initial masses of players, and this has proven disasterous to the long-term success of the MMO.
A prime example of this is MXO, where they had to buff and cater to the huge "neo-clone" population, which alienated everyone that was not a "neo."
Problem is, the type of player that is quitting after a month, generally can't be retained long term due to conflicts with mmo mechanics, or key problems with the IP.
I hope bioware does not try to cater to the "darth paul's" in an attempt to save thousands of subscribers that will likely quit anyway.
You put MXO and SW in the same paragraph LOL,
Also if you want hardcore pvp and not thempark pvp play UO, Darkfall or even MW3..
I hope bioware does not try to cater to the "darth paul's" in an attempt to save thousands of subscribers that will likely quit anyway.
Compared to every other MMORPG I've played, SWTOR is the most soulless game I've ever played. The game feels like some non-gaming marketing drones and suits sat around a meeting room making a list of bullet points from WoW and thought they would make billions.
There is no grand vision for the game, just marketing charts hoping to maxize revenue.
I don't think EA and Bioware will hesitate for a second to make drastic changes.
Here is where people always lose me. "The company made up the numbers." Yeah, OK. Don't get me wrong. I hate massive companies, but they are not allowed to just randomly say stuff like "we have 1.7 million active subscribers" and it not be true, without concrete evidence that they can show to share holders. If they even stretched the numbers a little, the sharks on Wall Street would eat them alive.
I have never seen anyone claiming the 1.7 million number is a lie. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of paying subscribers though.
If someone asks you how many apples you have and you respond I have X number of apples and oranges, did you lie?
The same thing with EA, instead of stating how many paying subscribers they played the silly word game of counting every single person who bought the game and started playing an 'active subscriber'.
EA's stock is down some 20 percent since the launch of the game. Wallstreet is showing exactly what they think of the future revenue and profits this game will bring to the company.
From the time I played on my roommate's account this past week on a Heavy/Very Heavy server and the mostly empty worlds even during peak times makes me feel the game doesn't even have a million paying subscribers. And why EA wasn't will to come right out and state exactly how many paying subscribers they have.
It was packed everywhere yesterday. Whenever we came back from a BG there was already another BG popup counting down before the fleet graphics were done loading up.
Honestly no mmo has done well since WOW, for other reasons than not having a good game concept.
The fact is there are more hardcore mmo lovers out there than solo single play rpg players. People are sick of the dull kiddy games and the companies keep making them. They are even taking mmorpgs and trying to turn them into single player console rpgs (TOR) to attract more people. But these people wont stick around long.
You have your handful of people that try to hold up these games hype and say its the best game in the world. But you have more that are against these type of games. I mean why pay 15/month to sit around and play a console game? Wait for content because you have nothing better to do? Repeat dailies and warzones until your keyboard breaks because you enjoy that type of content? You like being led around like a dog on a leash in a mmo because it reminds you of that one night in vegas? I dont get why people want less for what they pay for.
There are a lot of misconceptions concerning sandbox games also that these fanbois try to brainwash other gamers. Even though a sandbox is 100% more open, more content, better community, better social aspect, better crafting, better player based econ, better mechanics, and tons more features. They try to make you think sandboxes are boring and dull because they dont have creativity to make content for themselves, they have to be led around. They make you think that sandboxes are all about open world full loot pvp when in fact they are not in anyways like this. Just to trick people into not playing them so they dont risk their characters. I have played several sandbox games and not forced into pvp one time, only by choice.
The simple fact is, themeparks are ruining the industry of mmorpgs, and turning them in console rpgs and still charge you an arm and a leg for half the content and testing their product. MMO's use to be major fun, lots to do, can dabble in every aspect of life in a game, have your own choices on where to go, how to do something, and everything in between. Themeparks lead you in one direction and make you wait. They force you down narrow paths so you cant explore. They offer no social skills for player content. LFG is almost not needed in most these games. Everything is easy, no skill required, and has an " I WIN" button on everything. This only makes us more ignorant and doesnt help our children to use their brains, strategy, bartering, and the concept of respecting your community and being apart of it.
Sorry if I offended anyone, i dont care. I am sick of the trend we see here and we need something better. TOR was a joke, with the amount of money and time it was so limiting. Sure it had good eye candy and quests but nothing else. We shouldnt settle for this garbage. TOR could and should have been the game of all games and they screwed the pooch trying to turn it into KOTOR3 on pc.
Oh really? Go ahead and list them. That way I can use them as an example of MMOs that PVPers actually like and I can say "Here's a good PVP MMO. If you're hardcore PVP, you'll enjoy this".
Didn't think I had to repeat another poster but many of them go on and on about Lineage 2, DAOC, UO, etc.
I thought Aion was pretty sweet but the PvE side was awful at higher levels. They have have changed it and added some content though so it could be worthwhile.
Regardless they want a new game just like people that enjoy other forms of gameplay.
Should I tell people that hold PvE in high regards and are disappointed with a lot of games to come out lately that they should go back to EQ? AC?
Why do you even think that would be a valid response or retort?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I hope bioware does not try to cater to the "darth paul's" in an attempt to save thousands of subscribers that will likely quit anyway.
Compared to every other MMORPG I've played, SWTOR is the most soulless game I've ever played. The game feels like some non-gaming marketing drones and suits sat around a meeting room making a list of bullet points from WoW and thought they would make billions.
There is no grand vision for the game, just marketing charts hoping to maxize revenue.
I don't think EA and Bioware will hesitate for a second to make drastic changes.
Comments
Good because they're mostly idiots.
People enjoy PVP when they win and bitch when they don't. There's NO exceptions. When they lose it's the developer's fault for not balancing their chosen class exactly how they want it.
The last MMO that was completely screwed up in terms of balance was EQ. The gulf between classes has never been bigger since. Rogue/assassin classes are always going to be a pain in the butt. They're built to be devious and cheap so it shouldn't be a surprise when they annoy the piss out of people in PVP.
To the OP, I don't see a steep decline coming soon for TOR. TPM 3D will spawn a whole generation of sith assassins and keep the game visible during the crappy winter sales season. New players are coming in all the time who aren't like some of the grizzled jackwads here who raced to 50 and burned themselves out on MMOs years ago.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Here is where people always lose me. "The company made up the numbers." Yeah, OK. Don't get me wrong. I hate massive companies, but they are not allowed to just randomly say stuff like "we have 1.7 million active subscribers" and it not be true, without concrete evidence that they can show to share holders. If they even stretched the numbers a little, the sharks on Wall Street would eat them alive.
People said this crap with Warcraft and who knows what other companies besides Bioware, but it's just wrong. These press releases have concrete data that goes straight tp the primary share holders, who ultimately determine the fate of the company.
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On what period? With any game if we move to infitesimal time frame they have sold realy fast too... I wouldn't put too much weight in growth in first month... The real issue is 3, 6, 9 and 12 months in and then later...
I do agree they shouldn't make any drastic changes in panic. Alienating current players is certain way to death.
I am not the one who made the thread at this point in time. Just sayin'.
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Am i a "hardcore pvper"? I dunno, but i mostly PvP in MMOs so i'll say i am. On to the topic at hand....
I don't feel like an "idiot".
I also don't bitch when i lose. If i never lost, winning wouldn't be so much fun. You can stop generalizing anytime, but i doubt it.
I do however bitch when "the most experienced PvP developers in the world" create an open PvP area, and then allow win trading to take place without repercussion. I do believe, they said I would be "blown away" by Ilum. I suppose i was, but not for the reasons they probably think. Thats why this "hardcore" pvper stopped his sub.. The development team doesnt even have enough pride in their game to stop win trading.
I'm getting off topic so I'll stop. I just wanted to pipe in, as I would hate for people to think i'm an idiot, and all i do is bitch when i lose.
Have a nice day.
You confirmed my point. PVPers will always find an excuse to hate a game. WAR was all about PVP and of course, PVPers hated it. I don't need the details.
Most developers would rather just give the mouthbreathers a little playpen to go at each other in. As soon as they try to do anything more than that, something goes wrong. Then they fix it and PVPers hate the fix.
I'm scratching my head trying to remember a MMO that PVPers actually like and I can't think of one. People who enjoy butting heads all day are hard to keep happy for some reason.
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DAOC, GW1 (although not really an MMO).. lineage 2, Aion, mostly asian games it seems but one thing is for sure PVP has never really worked with only 2 factions ever
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
So let me get this straight.
I like to PvP, and in a game where the best way to progress my character in PvP is to stand in an open field and "trade wins" with someone.
No skill, no tactics, just stand there and beat on each other. The developers, who went through all this exhaustive work, to get their PvP good enough for release, has no problems with this.
And I'm a mouth breather?
really?
So i should pay these people $15 dollars a month to play whack-a-mole?
Sounds great.
Or i can skip doing that, and get my arse handed to me by people who work this system everytime i step out on the field.
I'm such a bitch....
Rofl kinda funny that you as a fan " not taking a shot at SWTOR ", are saying exactly what we as non-fans say.
SWTOR is a SINGLE PLAYER RPG.
To say they are the fastest growing MMO is a lie based on the MMO part alone who cares about the lie about the sells and sub numbers.
The game was already made for the ultra casual non MMO player. How much easier can they make it? I don't think its possible to dumb it down even more.
An excuse? I mean it couldn't be that it simply isn't very good in design or anything.
You use Warhammer as proof of this? Really?
I can think of a few games that PvPers enjoyed and reminisce about (to almost annoying degrees I might add) so not sure why it is so difficult for you.
Mouth breathers? You get corpse camped or something while getting accidentally flagged? Sure have a lot of pent up anger directed at PvP players.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I agree with underlined statement. That is what TOR was always meant to be. Why they got off point on that I don't understand. Well i do under$tand but I $till don't like it.
One more time for the PvPers: <waves hand> This is not the game you are looking for!
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
PvPers didn't hate WAR because they're PvPers, they hated WAR because it was a bad game.
Sorry... no?
I am a REAL fan of SW. have been since the 70's.
I also say that TOR should be about the story. What is wrong with a MMO that delivers a single-player story-driven experience? You still can do all the quest as a MMO group if you want. A choice is nice to have. Choice is good.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Oh really? Go ahead and list them. That way I can use them as an example of MMOs that PVPers actually like and I can say "Here's a good PVP MMO. If you're hardcore PVP, you'll enjoy this".
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Now..I do not have stats.....but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of WOW's 4 million or so western subs are not paid by PvP enthusiasts.
I have never seen anyone claiming the 1.7 million number is a lie. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of paying subscribers though.
If someone asks you how many apples you have and you respond I have X number of apples and oranges, did you lie?
The same thing with EA, instead of stating how many paying subscribers they played the silly word game of counting every single person who bought the game and started playing an 'active subscriber'.
EA's stock is down some 20 percent since the launch of the game. Wallstreet is showing exactly what they think of the future revenue and profits this game will bring to the company.
From the time I played on my roommate's account this past week on a Heavy/Very Heavy server and the mostly empty worlds even during peak times makes me feel the game doesn't even have a million paying subscribers. And why EA wasn't will to come right out and state exactly how many paying subscribers they have.
This lie again? Really?
You put MXO and SW in the same paragraph LOL,
Also if you want hardcore pvp and not thempark pvp play UO, Darkfall or even MW3..
SW is more PVE then pvp
Compared to every other MMORPG I've played, SWTOR is the most soulless game I've ever played. The game feels like some non-gaming marketing drones and suits sat around a meeting room making a list of bullet points from WoW and thought they would make billions.
There is no grand vision for the game, just marketing charts hoping to maxize revenue.
I don't think EA and Bioware will hesitate for a second to make drastic changes.
It was packed everywhere yesterday. Whenever we came back from a BG there was already another BG popup counting down before the fleet graphics were done loading up.
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Honestly no mmo has done well since WOW, for other reasons than not having a good game concept.
The fact is there are more hardcore mmo lovers out there than solo single play rpg players. People are sick of the dull kiddy games and the companies keep making them. They are even taking mmorpgs and trying to turn them into single player console rpgs (TOR) to attract more people. But these people wont stick around long.
You have your handful of people that try to hold up these games hype and say its the best game in the world. But you have more that are against these type of games. I mean why pay 15/month to sit around and play a console game? Wait for content because you have nothing better to do? Repeat dailies and warzones until your keyboard breaks because you enjoy that type of content? You like being led around like a dog on a leash in a mmo because it reminds you of that one night in vegas? I dont get why people want less for what they pay for.
There are a lot of misconceptions concerning sandbox games also that these fanbois try to brainwash other gamers. Even though a sandbox is 100% more open, more content, better community, better social aspect, better crafting, better player based econ, better mechanics, and tons more features. They try to make you think sandboxes are boring and dull because they dont have creativity to make content for themselves, they have to be led around. They make you think that sandboxes are all about open world full loot pvp when in fact they are not in anyways like this. Just to trick people into not playing them so they dont risk their characters. I have played several sandbox games and not forced into pvp one time, only by choice.
The simple fact is, themeparks are ruining the industry of mmorpgs, and turning them in console rpgs and still charge you an arm and a leg for half the content and testing their product. MMO's use to be major fun, lots to do, can dabble in every aspect of life in a game, have your own choices on where to go, how to do something, and everything in between. Themeparks lead you in one direction and make you wait. They force you down narrow paths so you cant explore. They offer no social skills for player content. LFG is almost not needed in most these games. Everything is easy, no skill required, and has an " I WIN" button on everything. This only makes us more ignorant and doesnt help our children to use their brains, strategy, bartering, and the concept of respecting your community and being apart of it.
Sorry if I offended anyone, i dont care. I am sick of the trend we see here and we need something better. TOR was a joke, with the amount of money and time it was so limiting. Sure it had good eye candy and quests but nothing else. We shouldnt settle for this garbage. TOR could and should have been the game of all games and they screwed the pooch trying to turn it into KOTOR3 on pc.
Didn't think I had to repeat another poster but many of them go on and on about Lineage 2, DAOC, UO, etc.
I thought Aion was pretty sweet but the PvE side was awful at higher levels. They have have changed it and added some content though so it could be worthwhile.
Regardless they want a new game just like people that enjoy other forms of gameplay.
Should I tell people that hold PvE in high regards and are disappointed with a lot of games to come out lately that they should go back to EQ? AC?
Why do you even think that would be a valid response or retort?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
BINGO!
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.