the skill trees do look awesome, wonder now tho about if they eliminated the gear treadmill, the global cooldown, the target/click boringness of other mmos (runs off the look up more on the interweb).
Gear is still important, but thet stats is in chakras and the clothes you wear are stats-idenpendant so your character will look how you want it to, instead of looking a character of class x with tier y raid gear.
TSW doesn't have a global cooldown and they have plenty of untargeted cone attacks that are dodgeable (you can move out of the way) and in addition you can always move, even when doing channeled attacks. There are targetted attacks (tab-targetting) as well, this is for the longer ranged attacks.
... and yeah, I have tried it and the combat is very good and entertainging. It's easy to learn, and a bit harder to master. You will probably need to learn several builds if you are to be a good player, so you have a few to change between depending on you going solo, grouping or doing PvP. (You can save a build and switch between builds whenever out of combat).
the skill trees do look awesome, wonder now tho about if they eliminated the gear treadmill, the global cooldown, the target/click boringness of other mmos (runs off the look up more on the interweb).
improving one's gear is one of the pillars of RPGs, i certainly hope it's not eliminated and doubt that it is.
neither of FC's MMOs used the retarded global cooldown concept, so i certainly hope they didn't start now. Would be good to get a confirm though.
i'm pretty sure clicking and targeting will be part of MMOs for a while, although in AoC you didn't really need to target anything specific... so who knows.
to answer your question you will receive "equipment" in the form of improvements to the chakras. This will function as gear.
Not that it will help you, because there is no theorycrafting in this game.
Dood, you really need to lay off the Failcom kool-aid. There will be cookie cutter builds, them being specialized for certain areas of the game doesn't make them any less so.
I'm acutally really suprised with the diversity. Honestly I thought it would end up you had to pick a skill from swords and it would only be effective for swords. Looking at the template designs this seems to not be the case as the sills presented are from different weapons. Of course there is going to be people just merely copying some build that another player made that they feel is awesome but it seems as if this is one of the few games where the probability of choosing a broken build and never being able to overcome that hurdle is minimal.
Yet, those builds were only using 4 active and 5 passives and already felt complete, I don't even know how much more complex they can be with 3 more active and 2 more passive skills being added.
thank god it is just 7 active and 7 passive.
Its not about complexity, its about situation.
TSWs mobs behave and act differently and you need different skill-combinations to not get mauled. I think i explained this before.
Playing a single-target DPS + DOT deck against 2 packs of 5 zombies is completely pointless because you will get mauled.
You need to use a AOE DPS + AOE control skill-combo. Most likely shotgun+rifle or a specific Tier 3 elementalism build + shotgun.
Trying to hack them to death with a hatchet one by one is not going to work.
TSWs combat is centered around knowing your skills and knowing when to use a specific combination of them when the specific situation arises.
Don't expect to stick to one "deck" and it being "complete".
those skillsets felt "complete" for their jobs assigned....
so you think making a good build for a specific job is not going to be complex?
What he was saying just meant yes it'll be complex but that the point is to switch builds on the fly. On a dungeon vid every party member switched to a build that would cooperate with the team dynamics. You'll be switching builds to meet any situation and not merely building a do all build.
lets see them balance this so it doesnt turn into 40 viable skills and 460 nonsense abilities. I find it hard to believe this system wont just turn into people asking for the best and nobdy experiementing, followed by the ones who experiment sharing what they learned so nobody else experiements.
I dont see funcom being able to balance a system like this, all wait and see however.
They don't need to balance it. Just like in Rift, because all the skills are open to all players, it balances itself.
For example, if in a regular MMO a Paladin's "Sword Smash" ability is overpowered, developers tend to either nerf Paladins or buff other classes to make them even. In an open skill MMO, if "Sword Smash" is overpowered, then every player can pick it regardless of the spec they run, so there is no need for the traditional "balancing of classes".
They don't need to balance classes but they do need to balance skills. If "Sword Smash" is overpowered then it becomes one of the 40 skills that everyone gets. The other 460 skills won't get a look in.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
And of course, it'll be a massive disappointment to a lot of people and the forums will be loaded with LMAO posts and videos of ridiculous characters doing absurdly overpowered things. There'll be bugs, there'll be lag, there'll be all kinds of issues with PvP, and people will be posting how "Failcom" are crashing again and how they shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs. Basically, all the usual, totally predictable hysterical BS that happens at every MMO release
i really hope that FC goes the way some of the smarter games have on PvP and makes PvP stats and powers totally separate from PvE. It's f***ing annoying that perfectly good PvE abilities and classes get screwed over for the entire playerbase because one person figured out a way to exploit in the game's totally irrelevant PvP.
Also, MMOs need to realize that they've failed to get PvP right for about 10 years now and just stop trying. That's what FPS, sports and srategy games are for. Every single MMO does not need to have battlegrounds/huttball/warzone/whateverthef*ckelsetheycallthesamething.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I don't think balance will be as much of an issue as with class based games. If a class is underpowered in a class based game you either have to
a) suck it and see
b) pray you get a fix patch
c) reroll
With a skill based system, you just go earn some more skills and switch you picks around. There is also the issue that you will need different skills for different encounters and to play different roles, so you will need more than 1 build.
There may be certain fotm builds - FOR PVE, e.g. if you want to max healing or max dps.
I don't see this as an issue with PVP though, you will want to keep changing up yourr build for the element of suprise.
I'm basing this off games like EVE compared to games like WOW, the latter had more balance issues.
Wow..I had pretty much given up on anyone breaking the mold on the lame ass games we are forced to endure for the past several years. This one could make me eat those words. If I do end up eating my words...I will do so happily. Game looks amazing, well thought out, well designed, lets hope it implements well.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I didn't see anything about non-combat skills. I thought they had more than combat-type stuff to do with the whole mysteries to uncover thing. Still, i do like what they are doing with the skill system. Would be cool to build a stealth/only melee type guy. I wonder encounters are built to need both melee/ranged to succeed. As a launch day player of AoC, i have faith they can get things right this time and learned from their mistakes. The things they did well with Conan, were very fun-like the combat.
Finally a good skill based system post PRe-cu SWG, not that the game will be like SWG ( EVE yes has a decent skill based system, it was released before SWG though), skill based systems are just far superior IMO. They allow for a true sense of progression, as well as knowledge and time spent are rewarded, it's an endless cycle of mix and match for me (adds longevity, if you can reskill).
Been excited for a while when it comes to this game, of course I'm aware of Funcoms issues, that didn't stop me from playing and enjoying AOC for quite a while. I do take account that this is a different team, and everyone is aware of the three strike rule, if they fail here in releasing a stable product it could very well be their ass, so if we're screwed so are they. All is fair that ends fair...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Iv'e "heard" that PvP balances itself out. If everyone has access to all the same skills and can change their deck easily, then you eliminate class balancing issues. You will also eliminate certain builds dominating for too long. People will create a deck that becomes popular no sooner will someone make the perfect counter to that build and the cycle repeats itself. You'll eventually end up with dozens of viable pvp builds for various encounters. And they will be constantly evolving based on player participation rather than nerf this buff that.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
...
I do agree that some builds will be more powerful to start with, but at the same time, it should be much easier to balance. If everybody picks a single skill - nerf it slightly and buff some of the ones nobody uses. Repeat weekly until balanced achieved. This works best if the nerfs/buffs are small and are applied often.
Originally posted by arieste For example, if in a regular MMO a Paladin's "Sword Smash" ability is overpowered, developers tend to either nerf Paladins or buff other classes to make them even. In an open skill MMO, if "Sword Smash" is overpowered, then every player can pick it regardless of the spec they run, so there is no need for the traditional "balancing of classes".
How can you possibly think this is okay? If "Sword Smash" is overpowered and everyone takes it, you are removing options. Suddenly nobody gets to pick which skills they take because these 7 actives and these 7 passives are so ridiculously overpowered together that they might as well just preload every character with them because as soon as you unlock them you'll never use anything else again.
What about these underpowered skills? There is so little reason to take them that they might as well be removed from the game because taking them instead of anything is actually hurting your build.
And that doesn't even touch on what happens to new players who didn't get the memo on which skills are overpowered.
Originally posted by arieste Personally, i think balance is a pretty stupid concept in the first place. There should be a use for all kinds of characters, but they don't need to be equal in anything.
I...
What?
How can... How can someone sincerely believe this?
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Iv'e "heard" that PvP balances itself out. If everyone has access to all the same skills and can change their deck easily, then you eliminate class balancing issues. You will also eliminate certain builds dominating for too long. People will create a deck that becomes popular no sooner will someone make the perfect counter to that build and the cycle repeats itself. You'll eventually end up with dozens of viable pvp builds for various encounters. And they will be constantly evolving based on player participation rather than nerf this buff that.
Well the PvP balances itself further out by there always being 3 factions. So that if one faction gets the upper hand too much the other two could ally for a suitable time and try to win that way. 2 factions vs 1. It's all good old DaoC PvP. Actually the PvP aspect is probably what draws me the most to this game.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
...
I do agree that some builds will be more powerful to start with, but at the same time, it should be much easier to balance. If everybody picks a single skill - nerf it slightly and buff some of the ones nobody uses. Repeat weekly until balanced achieved. This works best if the nerfs/buffs are small and are applied often.
It won't work like that in real life simply due to the laws of unintended consequences. And there will be vocal and furious players complaining about their "concept" build being ruined by nerfs and Failcom shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs.
We should all know this will happen by now, and manage our various expectations accordingly.
FOTM builds will change, people will whine, fact of life -_-
The reason is simple, bc people and thus MMO gamers will always be the same no matter what MMO or game or situation.
That said, I don't see why FC shouldn't be making MMO's, their former 2 might have had rushed launches and buggy starts, but they were distinctive and enjoyable on their own to many MMO gamers :-)
Only thing needed is that people have down-to-earth, realistic expectations, but that applies to all MMO's.
I played TSW beta it was good and is worth keeping an eye on it.
Course I didn't enjoy it more than when I tried out GW 2 but I'm still buying it because for their design atttempts they are worth a sub and possible success.
I'm going to be enjoying this and GW 2.
Possibly enjoy Tera as well I'm pre ordering it tomorrow to be in it's beta to see how it goes.
Must say for design atttempts TSW and GW 2 have the best attempts to see possible change.
They have that "hybrid" feel of themepark and some sandpark elements.
They are both open and both have a different approach at knocking out that holy trinity.
I hope both succeed becausethen there will be true successful change in the genre.
NO MMO since WoW has managed to advance the genre, but these two look like they have the best chance but time will tell.
I will tell you this they have more than one gimmick which is a first and they both should have good PVP that's noteworthy for a change.
I like this article...now [time].
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Comments
There will be a vertical gear progression of sorts - effectiveness will be determined both by skill choice and by gear quality.
Gear is still important, but thet stats is in chakras and the clothes you wear are stats-idenpendant so your character will look how you want it to, instead of looking a character of class x with tier y raid gear.
TSW doesn't have a global cooldown and they have plenty of untargeted cone attacks that are dodgeable (you can move out of the way) and in addition you can always move, even when doing channeled attacks. There are targetted attacks (tab-targetting) as well, this is for the longer ranged attacks.
... and yeah, I have tried it and the combat is very good and entertainging. It's easy to learn, and a bit harder to master. You will probably need to learn several builds if you are to be a good player, so you have a few to change between depending on you going solo, grouping or doing PvP. (You can save a build and switch between builds whenever out of combat).
What's with the hair metal Hugo Strange?
to answer your question you will receive "equipment" in the form of improvements to the chakras. This will function as gear.
I'm acutally really suprised with the diversity. Honestly I thought it would end up you had to pick a skill from swords and it would only be effective for swords. Looking at the template designs this seems to not be the case as the sills presented are from different weapons. Of course there is going to be people just merely copying some build that another player made that they feel is awesome but it seems as if this is one of the few games where the probability of choosing a broken build and never being able to overcome that hurdle is minimal.
What he was saying just meant yes it'll be complex but that the point is to switch builds on the fly. On a dungeon vid every party member switched to a build that would cooperate with the team dynamics. You'll be switching builds to meet any situation and not merely building a do all build.
They don't need to balance classes but they do need to balance skills. If "Sword Smash" is overpowered then it becomes one of the 40 skills that everyone gets. The other 460 skills won't get a look in.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
And of course, it'll be a massive disappointment to a lot of people and the forums will be loaded with LMAO posts and videos of ridiculous characters doing absurdly overpowered things. There'll be bugs, there'll be lag, there'll be all kinds of issues with PvP, and people will be posting how "Failcom" are crashing again and how they shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs. Basically, all the usual, totally predictable hysterical BS that happens at every MMO release
Looking good
i really hope that FC goes the way some of the smarter games have on PvP and makes PvP stats and powers totally separate from PvE. It's f***ing annoying that perfectly good PvE abilities and classes get screwed over for the entire playerbase because one person figured out a way to exploit in the game's totally irrelevant PvP.
Also, MMOs need to realize that they've failed to get PvP right for about 10 years now and just stop trying. That's what FPS, sports and srategy games are for. Every single MMO does not need to have battlegrounds/huttball/warzone/whateverthef*ckelsetheycallthesamething.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I don't think balance will be as much of an issue as with class based games. If a class is underpowered in a class based game you either have to
a) suck it and see
b) pray you get a fix patch
c) reroll
With a skill based system, you just go earn some more skills and switch you picks around. There is also the issue that you will need different skills for different encounters and to play different roles, so you will need more than 1 build.
There may be certain fotm builds - FOR PVE, e.g. if you want to max healing or max dps.
I don't see this as an issue with PVP though, you will want to keep changing up yourr build for the element of suprise.
I'm basing this off games like EVE compared to games like WOW, the latter had more balance issues.
hmm I think
DAOC
Planetside
EVE
AC
GW (although im not into e-"sports")
got PVP right for starters. I think what you really mean is - "WOW clones can't do PVP right"
interstingly TSW seems to be taking a number of PVP cues from 2 of thoose - DAOC and GW
Wow..I had pretty much given up on anyone breaking the mold on the lame ass games we are forced to endure for the past several years. This one could make me eat those words. If I do end up eating my words...I will do so happily. Game looks amazing, well thought out, well designed, lets hope it implements well.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I didn't see anything about non-combat skills. I thought they had more than combat-type stuff to do with the whole mysteries to uncover thing. Still, i do like what they are doing with the skill system. Would be cool to build a stealth/only melee type guy. I wonder encounters are built to need both melee/ranged to succeed. As a launch day player of AoC, i have faith they can get things right this time and learned from their mistakes. The things they did well with Conan, were very fun-like the combat.
Finally a good skill based system post PRe-cu SWG, not that the game will be like SWG ( EVE yes has a decent skill based system, it was released before SWG though), skill based systems are just far superior IMO. They allow for a true sense of progression, as well as knowledge and time spent are rewarded, it's an endless cycle of mix and match for me (adds longevity, if you can reskill).
Been excited for a while when it comes to this game, of course I'm aware of Funcoms issues, that didn't stop me from playing and enjoying AOC for quite a while. I do take account that this is a different team, and everyone is aware of the three strike rule, if they fail here in releasing a stable product it could very well be their ass, so if we're screwed so are they. All is fair that ends fair...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Iv'e "heard" that PvP balances itself out. If everyone has access to all the same skills and can change their deck easily, then you eliminate class balancing issues. You will also eliminate certain builds dominating for too long. People will create a deck that becomes popular no sooner will someone make the perfect counter to that build and the cycle repeats itself. You'll eventually end up with dozens of viable pvp builds for various encounters. And they will be constantly evolving based on player participation rather than nerf this buff that.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I do agree that some builds will be more powerful to start with, but at the same time, it should be much easier to balance. If everybody picks a single skill - nerf it slightly and buff some of the ones nobody uses. Repeat weekly until balanced achieved. This works best if the nerfs/buffs are small and are applied often.
Really looking forward to experimenting with different builds
when i saw the thaumaturgist i thought : "Hugo Strange on crack"!!!! lol nice pictures, Illuminati ftw!
How can you possibly think this is okay? If "Sword Smash" is overpowered and everyone takes it, you are removing options. Suddenly nobody gets to pick which skills they take because these 7 actives and these 7 passives are so ridiculously overpowered together that they might as well just preload every character with them because as soon as you unlock them you'll never use anything else again.
What about these underpowered skills? There is so little reason to take them that they might as well be removed from the game because taking them instead of anything is actually hurting your build.
And that doesn't even touch on what happens to new players who didn't get the memo on which skills are overpowered.
I...
What?
How can... How can someone sincerely believe this?
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Well the PvP balances itself further out by there always being 3 factions. So that if one faction gets the upper hand too much the other two could ally for a suitable time and try to win that way. 2 factions vs 1. It's all good old DaoC PvP. Actually the PvP aspect is probably what draws me the most to this game.
The Ultimate Breakdown
Just glad to hear I can attack without targeting. After some time with AoC click target, click attack is kinda stale.
It won't work like that in real life simply due to the laws of unintended consequences. And there will be vocal and furious players complaining about their "concept" build being ruined by nerfs and Failcom shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs.
We should all know this will happen by now, and manage our various expectations accordingly.
The reason is simple, bc people and thus MMO gamers will always be the same no matter what MMO or game or situation.That said, I don't see why FC shouldn't be making MMO's, their former 2 might have had rushed launches and buggy starts, but they were distinctive and enjoyable on their own to many MMO gamers :-)
Only thing needed is that people have down-to-earth, realistic expectations, but that applies to all MMO's.I played TSW beta it was good and is worth keeping an eye on it.
Course I didn't enjoy it more than when I tried out GW 2 but I'm still buying it because for their design atttempts they are worth a sub and possible success.
I'm going to be enjoying this and GW 2.
Possibly enjoy Tera as well I'm pre ordering it tomorrow to be in it's beta to see how it goes.
Must say for design atttempts TSW and GW 2 have the best attempts to see possible change.
They have that "hybrid" feel of themepark and some sandpark elements.
They are both open and both have a different approach at knocking out that holy trinity.
I hope both succeed becausethen there will be true successful change in the genre.
NO MMO since WoW has managed to advance the genre, but these two look like they have the best chance but time will tell.
I will tell you this they have more than one gimmick which is a first and they both should have good PVP that's noteworthy for a change.
I like this article...now [time].
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.