FOTM builds will change, people will whine, fact of life -_-
The reason is simple, bc people and thus MMO gamers will always be the same no matter what MMO or game or situation.
That said, I don't see why FC shouldn't be making MMO's, their former 2 might have had rushed launches and buggy starts, but they were distinctive and enjoyable on their own to many MMO gamers :-)
Only thing needed is that people have down-to-earth, realistic expectations, but that applies to all MMO's.
Totally agree. Expect issues, expect some features to be less amazing than the PR makes out and expect a wave of post-release hate, and you'll be good to go.
lets see them balance this so it doesnt turn into 40 viable skills and 460 nonsense abilities. I find it hard to believe this system wont just turn into people asking for the best and nobdy experiementing, followed by the ones who experiment sharing what they learned so nobody else experiements.
I dont see funcom being able to balance a system like this, all wait and see however.
They don't need to balance it. Just like in Rift, because all the skills are open to all players, it balances itself.
For example, if in a regular MMO a Paladin's "Sword Smash" ability is overpowered, developers tend to either nerf Paladins or buff other classes to make them even. In an open skill MMO, if "Sword Smash" is overpowered, then every player can pick it regardless of the spec they run, so there is no need for the traditional "balancing of classes".
They don't need to balance classes but they do need to balance skills. If "Sword Smash" is overpowered then it becomes one of the 40 skills that everyone gets. The other 460 skills won't get a look in.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
And of course, it'll be a massive disappointment to a lot of people and the forums will be loaded with LMAO posts and videos of ridiculous characters doing absurdly overpowered things. There'll be bugs, there'll be lag, there'll be all kinds of issues with PvP, and people will be posting how "Failcom" are crashing again and how they shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs. Basically, all the usual, totally predictable hysterical BS that happens at every MMO release
The developers have said that every skill has a counter skill. So, that's what they need to balance. If "Sword Smash" is a great skill, and everybody starts using it, then somebody will come up with a deck using the "Sword Smash" counter skill. Then, that person would potentially pwn, since it would be countering the so-called OP skill which everybody would theoretically have in your above scenario. So, then the "Sword Smash" people would be like, "GAAAAHHH! This isn't working all that great anymore. Everybody is equipping that counter. Time to try something else." See how that balances itself?
I didn't see anything about non-combat skills. I thought they had more than combat-type stuff to do with the whole mysteries to uncover thing. Still, i do like what they are doing with the skill system. Would be cool to build a stealth/only melee type guy. I wonder encounters are built to need both melee/ranged to succeed. As a launch day player of AoC, i have faith they can get things right this time and learned from their mistakes. The things they did well with Conan, were very fun-like the combat.
This game will require a brain for a number of quests (at least until the wiki's come out to ruin it). It seem the developers actually took great pains to actually make you consider context in terms of quest goals. For example: when a quest tells you that you need a particular item for a quest to continue, that item will actually be in a place where it would make sense for that item to be in reality. Sometimes when you actually figure out where what your looking for is, you may feel like an idiot for not thinking of it sooner since its realistic. It does mean that players will have to get over some bad habits that mmo's have lulled us into.
Totally agree. Expect issues, expect some features to be less amazing than the PR makes out and expect a wave of post-release hate, and you'll be good to go.
AoC is not to bad now they have fixed alot of the issues.
As for TSW this looks really nice, its a new fresh idea that can if done right shake up the MMO market and maybe get us away from the cookie cutter templates of WoW.
I am eagerly awaiting this game in the hopes it can live up to the hype it has created.
They don't need to balance classes but they do need to balance skills. If "Sword Smash" is overpowered then it becomes one of the 40 skills that everyone gets. The other 460 skills won't get a look in.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
And of course, it'll be a massive disappointment to a lot of people and the forums will be loaded with LMAO posts and videos of ridiculous characters doing absurdly overpowered things. There'll be bugs, there'll be lag, there'll be all kinds of issues with PvP, and people will be posting how "Failcom" are crashing again and how they shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs. Basically, all the usual, totally predictable hysterical BS that happens at every MMO release
The developers have said that every skill has a counter skill. So, that's what they need to balance. If "Sword Smash" is a great skill, and everybody starts using it, then somebody will come up with a deck using the "Sword Smash" counter skill. Then, that person would potentially pwn, since it would be countering the so-called OP skill which everybody would theoretically have in your above scenario. So, then the "Sword Smash" people would be like, "GAAAAHHH! This isn't working all that great anymore. Everybody is equipping that counter. Time to try something else." See how that balances itself?
I see how it balances itself in theory, but in practice it won't work. There will always be imbalances because there will always be people who figure out ways to get every advantage they can get.
It'll only be a matter of time (and it won't take much time) before someone figures out that their "Sword Smash" skill becomes less counterable if they use it with the "High Jump" toggle, due to some secondary effect of "High Jump". So something has to be adjusted, which has a knock on effect in another skill area. And with 500 skills to balance, that's a lot of unintended consequences.
TSW isn't going to be magic, it's going to be flawed just like every other MMO ever released. Expect it and you won't be disappointed.
They don't need to balance classes but they do need to balance skills. If "Sword Smash" is overpowered then it becomes one of the 40 skills that everyone gets. The other 460 skills won't get a look in.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
And of course, it'll be a massive disappointment to a lot of people and the forums will be loaded with LMAO posts and videos of ridiculous characters doing absurdly overpowered things. There'll be bugs, there'll be lag, there'll be all kinds of issues with PvP, and people will be posting how "Failcom" are crashing again and how they shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs. Basically, all the usual, totally predictable hysterical BS that happens at every MMO release
The developers have said that every skill has a counter skill. So, that's what they need to balance. If "Sword Smash" is a great skill, and everybody starts using it, then somebody will come up with a deck using the "Sword Smash" counter skill. Then, that person would potentially pwn, since it would be countering the so-called OP skill which everybody would theoretically have in your above scenario. So, then the "Sword Smash" people would be like, "GAAAAHHH! This isn't working all that great anymore. Everybody is equipping that counter. Time to try something else." See how that balances itself?
I see how it balances itself in theory, but in practice it won't work. There will always be imbalances because there will always be people who figure out ways to get every advantage they can get.
It'll only be a matter of time (and it won't take much time) before someone figures out that their "Sword Smash" skill becomes less counterable if they use it with the "High Jump" toggle, due to some secondary effect of "High Jump". So something has to be adjusted, which has a knock on effect in another skill area. And with 500 skills to balance, that's a lot of unintended consequences.
TSW isn't going to be magic, it's going to be flawed just like every other MMO ever released. Expect it and you won't be disappointed.
If they'll work on their balancing non-stop like GW1 did for example it should be ok. I'm not saying GW was perfectly balanced, but hey, they worked on it pretty much nonstop.
Balancing only becomes a huge issue when devs don't fix stuff or listen to baddies cry on forums and make totally inapropriate changes.
Said it before and I'll say it again. Cautiously optimistic but I am really digging the skill system and the leveless gameplay the most. Still that nagging doubt Failcom will find a way to screw it up.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
lets see them balance this so it doesnt turn into 40 viable skills and 460 nonsense abilities. I find it hard to believe this system wont just turn into people asking for the best and nobdy experiementing, followed by the ones who experiment sharing what they learned so nobody else experiements.
I dont see funcom being able to balance a system like this, all wait and see however.
They don't need to balance it. Just like in Rift, because all the skills are open to all players, it balances itself.
For example, if in a regular MMO a Paladin's "Sword Smash" ability is overpowered, developers tend to either nerf Paladins or buff other classes to make them even. In an open skill MMO, if "Sword Smash" is overpowered, then every player can pick it regardless of the spec they run, so there is no need for the traditional "balancing of classes".
Personally, i think balance is a pretty stupid concept in the first place. There should be a use for all kinds of characters, but they don't need to be equal in anything.
Anyhow, this system, with this knowledge sounds awesome. Kinda like DCUO on steroids and DCUO has some awesome combat.
This is 100% true, and most old school MMO's used this method for balancing. Not the WoW/Rift style of constant nerfs and overbuffs trying to balance. If you want to be OP then you play the OP spec its your choice to be OP or not. Asherons Call to my recollection never once nerfed a skill because everyone could get that skill.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
They don't need to balance classes but they do need to balance skills. If "Sword Smash" is overpowered then it becomes one of the 40 skills that everyone gets. The other 460 skills won't get a look in.
That aside, TSW does look interesting. I still have a lot of love for CO for it's open-plan powers system and TSW looks like it could offer the same. I will say here and now though, it WILL have balance issues, especially early on; FOTM/cookie cutter builds will dominate and everything that can be abused will be abused - and the more open the system, the more there is to abuse.
And of course, it'll be a massive disappointment to a lot of people and the forums will be loaded with LMAO posts and videos of ridiculous characters doing absurdly overpowered things. There'll be bugs, there'll be lag, there'll be all kinds of issues with PvP, and people will be posting how "Failcom" are crashing again and how they shouldn't be allowed to make MMOs. Basically, all the usual, totally predictable hysterical BS that happens at every MMO release
The developers have said that every skill has a counter skill. So, that's what they need to balance. If "Sword Smash" is a great skill, and everybody starts using it, then somebody will come up with a deck using the "Sword Smash" counter skill. Then, that person would potentially pwn, since it would be countering the so-called OP skill which everybody would theoretically have in your above scenario. So, then the "Sword Smash" people would be like, "GAAAAHHH! This isn't working all that great anymore. Everybody is equipping that counter. Time to try something else." See how that balances itself?
I see how it balances itself in theory, but in practice it won't work. There will always be imbalances because there will always be people who figure out ways to get every advantage they can get.
It'll only be a matter of time (and it won't take much time) before someone figures out that their "Sword Smash" skill becomes less counterable if they use it with the "High Jump" toggle, due to some secondary effect of "High Jump". So something has to be adjusted, which has a knock on effect in another skill area. And with 500 skills to balance, that's a lot of unintended consequences.
TSW isn't going to be magic, it's going to be flawed just like every other MMO ever released. Expect it and you won't be disappointed.
If your flavor of the month build includes Sword Smash AND High Jump, how long do you expect ity will take for the counter-build to include the counter to both?
It's an arms race that nobody can win, and that's entirely the point; you eventually discover that your sword smash build is now no longer optimal against anyone but the people equipped to counter sword smash-- you've given up all your viability to prevent yourself from being countered. I've seen the majority of the skills (they may have been changed since I saw CB, but that's the nature of the beast) and their comparison to magic the gathering is incredibly relevant. Sure, if you play against someone with a red deck it's probably a burn deck, but it's entirely possible that they surprise you with something else entirely. It's entirely possible that what you are expecting and what you get are two totally different things. Embrace the metagame. Enjoy the metagame. Live the metagame.
I just fear it is never going to live up to the pontential simple because Funcom is creating it
It's because THEY are creating it that it is what it is in the first place, potential and all. Those who played Rift were pretty excited at the start about the whole role switching on the fly gimmick but having classes made up for most of the QQing on the boards and much attention given to appeasing one group of players over another instead of churring new content.
Even if there are 3-4 good tank builds total, noone will feel left out because anyone interested can get them.
Between gearing towards performing your role better and nothing standing between you and the 'best' build but yourself, people can focus more on the actual game.
Comments
Totally agree. Expect issues, expect some features to be less amazing than the PR makes out and expect a wave of post-release hate, and you'll be good to go.
Oh, and that applies equally to all MMO releases.
The developers have said that every skill has a counter skill. So, that's what they need to balance. If "Sword Smash" is a great skill, and everybody starts using it, then somebody will come up with a deck using the "Sword Smash" counter skill. Then, that person would potentially pwn, since it would be countering the so-called OP skill which everybody would theoretically have in your above scenario. So, then the "Sword Smash" people would be like, "GAAAAHHH! This isn't working all that great anymore. Everybody is equipping that counter. Time to try something else." See how that balances itself?
No classes, sounds good. Maybe I will give it a try.
This game will require a brain for a number of quests (at least until the wiki's come out to ruin it). It seem the developers actually took great pains to actually make you consider context in terms of quest goals. For example: when a quest tells you that you need a particular item for a quest to continue, that item will actually be in a place where it would make sense for that item to be in reality. Sometimes when you actually figure out where what your looking for is, you may feel like an idiot for not thinking of it sooner since its realistic. It does mean that players will have to get over some bad habits that mmo's have lulled us into.
Word, man. Word.
Exactly what I was thinking :-)AoC is not to bad now they have fixed alot of the issues.
As for TSW this looks really nice, its a new fresh idea that can if done right shake up the MMO market and maybe get us away from the cookie cutter templates of WoW.
I am eagerly awaiting this game in the hopes it can live up to the hype it has created.
I see how it balances itself in theory, but in practice it won't work. There will always be imbalances because there will always be people who figure out ways to get every advantage they can get.
It'll only be a matter of time (and it won't take much time) before someone figures out that their "Sword Smash" skill becomes less counterable if they use it with the "High Jump" toggle, due to some secondary effect of "High Jump". So something has to be adjusted, which has a knock on effect in another skill area. And with 500 skills to balance, that's a lot of unintended consequences.
TSW isn't going to be magic, it's going to be flawed just like every other MMO ever released. Expect it and you won't be disappointed.
If they'll work on their balancing non-stop like GW1 did for example it should be ok. I'm not saying GW was perfectly balanced, but hey, they worked on it pretty much nonstop.
Balancing only becomes a huge issue when devs don't fix stuff or listen to baddies cry on forums and make totally inapropriate changes.
Yeah. I'm not saying it's not going to work and TSW will suck, all I'm saying is that everyone needs to manage their expectations.
Said it before and I'll say it again. Cautiously optimistic but I am really digging the skill system and the leveless gameplay the most. Still that nagging doubt Failcom will find a way to screw it up.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
This is 100% true, and most old school MMO's used this method for balancing. Not the WoW/Rift style of constant nerfs and overbuffs trying to balance. If you want to be OP then you play the OP spec its your choice to be OP or not. Asherons Call to my recollection never once nerfed a skill because everyone could get that skill.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
If your flavor of the month build includes Sword Smash AND High Jump, how long do you expect ity will take for the counter-build to include the counter to both?
It's an arms race that nobody can win, and that's entirely the point; you eventually discover that your sword smash build is now no longer optimal against anyone but the people equipped to counter sword smash-- you've given up all your viability to prevent yourself from being countered. I've seen the majority of the skills (they may have been changed since I saw CB, but that's the nature of the beast) and their comparison to magic the gathering is incredibly relevant. Sure, if you play against someone with a red deck it's probably a burn deck, but it's entirely possible that they surprise you with something else entirely. It's entirely possible that what you are expecting and what you get are two totally different things. Embrace the metagame. Enjoy the metagame. Live the metagame.
It's because THEY are creating it that it is what it is in the first place, potential and all. Those who played Rift were pretty excited at the start about the whole role switching on the fly gimmick but having classes made up for most of the QQing on the boards and much attention given to appeasing one group of players over another instead of churring new content.
Even if there are 3-4 good tank builds total, noone will feel left out because anyone interested can get them.
Between gearing towards performing your role better and nothing standing between you and the 'best' build but yourself, people can focus more on the actual game.
The few responses I've read from beta appear positive, hoping this game develops accordingly
Should be number 1 for me then.
Looks grand! I'm in Intrigued mode...
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