Mike Morhaime spoke about the issue, and I think this is where people are getting confused and defensive. Blizzard wants to make "Blizzard-DoTA" (hope that's not the final name) not "DoTA 2", meaning "DoTA" itself should be left as a community term as it was developed by a community. By contrast, Valve wants to do the opposite, and trademark the "DoTA" name itself. It doesn't have the right to. I sort of doubt that if Valve did the same as Blizzard and instead named it something equally stupid like "Valve-DoTA," Blizzard would be going through the trouble.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
No, using an engine created as a platform for creating new games is not the same as using modding tools of an existing game to create a new one. And even if it was, there is still licensing involved in all of the above. When you develop a game using one of the engines you mentioned, you are licensing the use of that engine and in doing so, the creators of the engine give up certain rights in exchange for profit from the people that buy use of it. So even using your own example, Blizzard is still in the right, because Blizzard is clearly saying they never gave up any rights and were both licensing and promoting DoTA under their company's banner. So in the end, it's still not the same thing.
Licensing is required only for use of the copyrighted material. Aka, the game engine and assets that are used by the mod.
The trademark, is completely separate from any licensing requirement, and ownership falls directly with the creator/s of said mod.
Blizzard only has sway over any potential sale or re-sale of DotA. They have no claim over the trademark or the sequel being made using a completely different engine with it's own assets.
Seems straight foward to me. When I think DotA, I think W3 Mod. Without W3 and modding tools, there is no DotA. I'm not connecting the dots on how Blizzard is the bad guy in this since they have largely left it alone and to the community. I would think the "community" outcry would be in favor of keeping it that way, not letting Valve dictate what "community" means.
and making it with there tools doesnt give them ownership over your ideas, it just doesnt, its a fact.
And also, i did look up Dota allstars, and funny thing, not a damn thing about vlizzard owning it, seems like the kind of info youd find on there wiki page.
Ill say it again, just because you make a mod with someones mod tools, DOESNT give them the right to the name or content.
By that logic you cant make mods for any established IPs, since blizzard would then own the trademarks for those.
"DOTA All-stars" does not claim ownership of DOTA, just says this is a version of DOTA, trying to claim the name DOTA2 implies ownership of DOTA and that DOTA2 is a sequal in same way, and the only way you can make a sequal is to have owned the original.
Exactly. That's what people aren't getting. Blizz isn't trying to own DoTA, they're trying to prevent someone else from doing so. That people are actually irked that Blizz is essentially fighting for them against another corporation's greed just goes to show how quick they are to bash Blizz for anything to do whether or not there's actual merit.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
and making it with there tools doesnt give them ownership over your ideas, it just doesnt, its a fact.
And also, i did look up Dota allstars, and funny thing, not a damn thing about vlizzard owning it, seems like the kind of info youd find on there wiki page.
Ill say it again, just because you make a mod with someones mod tools, DOESNT give them the right to the name or content.
By that logic you cant make mods for any established IPs, since blizzard would then own the trademarks for those.
"DOTA All-stars" does not claim ownership of DOTA, just says this is a version of DOTA, trying to claim the name DOTA2 implies ownership of DOTA and that DOTA2 is a sequal in same way, and the only way you can make a sequal is to have owned the original.
Exactly. That's what people aren't getting. Blizz isn't trying to own DoTA, they're trying to prevent someone else from doing so. That people are actually irked that Blizz is essentially fighting for them against another corporation's greed just goes to show how quick they are to bash Blizz for anything to do whether or not there's actual merit.
And if they dont own it, what right do they have trying to prevent someone else from doing it?
People are irked because blizzards trying to stop someone from owning something blizzard doesnt own, therefore has no right to try and deny someone else.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
and making it with there tools doesnt give them ownership over your ideas, it just doesnt, its a fact.
And also, i did look up Dota allstars, and funny thing, not a damn thing about vlizzard owning it, seems like the kind of info youd find on there wiki page.
Ill say it again, just because you make a mod with someones mod tools, DOESNT give them the right to the name or content.
By that logic you cant make mods for any established IPs, since blizzard would then own the trademarks for those.
"DOTA All-stars" does not claim ownership of DOTA, just says this is a version of DOTA, trying to claim the name DOTA2 implies ownership of DOTA and that DOTA2 is a sequal in same way, and the only way you can make a sequal is to have owned the original.
Exactly. That's what people aren't getting. Blizz isn't trying to own DoTA, they're trying to prevent someone else from doing so. That people are actually irked that Blizz is essentially fighting for them against another corporation's greed just goes to show how quick they are to bash Blizz for anything to do whether or not there's actual merit.
And if they dont own it, what right do they have trying to prevent someone else from doing it?
People are irked because blizzards trying to stop someone from owning something blizzard doesnt own, therefore has no right to try and deny someone else.
Dear God. Pay attention. Blizzard doesn't own it. NEITHER DOES VALVE. Valve is trying to own something built by a community of people. Blizzard isn't, because they recognise they don't own it. One is trying to leave the community alone. The other is trying to fuck them up the ass. Is it computing yet?
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
You are all forgetting the Sony/Verant case about the songs/names the bards were making up while role playing in EQ1. It does NOT MATTER who created the mod and/or name. Once you associate it with the licensed product the products owner has the ownership rights to said name, lyrics, code, ect associated with whatever was created by an outside source and brought into the gaming world.
The bard player in question attempted to sue sony for stealing his songs and names, he lost. The same applies to any mod name, mod codes, and character names. Any idea's shared amongst the player community. Once it is used within the gaming client it can/does become the sole property of the game publisher.
and making it with there tools doesnt give them ownership over your ideas, it just doesnt, its a fact.
And also, i did look up Dota allstars, and funny thing, not a damn thing about vlizzard owning it, seems like the kind of info youd find on there wiki page.
Ill say it again, just because you make a mod with someones mod tools, DOESNT give them the right to the name or content.
By that logic you cant make mods for any established IPs, since blizzard would then own the trademarks for those.
"DOTA All-stars" does not claim ownership of DOTA, just says this is a version of DOTA, trying to claim the name DOTA2 implies ownership of DOTA and that DOTA2 is a sequal in same way, and the only way you can make a sequal is to have owned the original.
Exactly. That's what people aren't getting. Blizz isn't trying to own DoTA, they're trying to prevent someone else from doing so. That people are actually irked that Blizz is essentially fighting for them against another corporation's greed just goes to show how quick they are to bash Blizz for anything to do whether or not there's actual merit.
And if they dont own it, what right do they have trying to prevent someone else from doing it?
People are irked because blizzards trying to stop someone from owning something blizzard doesnt own, therefore has no right to try and deny someone else.
Dear God. Pay attention. Blizzard doesn't own it. NEITHER DOES VALVE. Valve is trying to own something built by a community of people. Blizzard isn't, because they recognise they don't own it. One is trying to leave the community alone. The other is trying to fuck them up the ass. Is it computing yet?
And? that still doesnt give them the right to stop someone else from trademarking something.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Dear God. Pay attention. Blizzard doesn't own it. NEITHER DOES VALVE. Valve is trying to own something built by a community of people. Blizzard isn't, because they recognise they don't own it. One is trying to leave the community alone. The other is trying to fuck them up the ass. Is it computing yet?
Sorry, but the "community" doesn't own it. Those that put the effort and time into building it do. If ownership was passed to Icefrog and Valve see's an opportunity to partner with Icefrog (ie hire Icefrog to build DOTA2) then they are not the bad guy. They just gave the owner the resources needed to expand on their original creation. Trademarking it for protection because of their investment is a wise decision.
BTW, who owns KOTOR name. Lucasarts? Bioware? Obsidian?
From what i read, DOTA is an acronym for a fan developped mod used in Warcraft III. It's not an actual Blizzard property. Blizzard is sueing just for the fact that this acronym has been used in association with the Warcraft name. I'm no lawyer but i think Blizzard position is weak, Valve might have a chance. Sueing someone just because he want to use an 3rd party acronym of something that's not even yours in the first place (community mod).... i really dont know what to think.
Meh, companies going at eachother for a slice of the money pie. Not unexpected, but still kinda disappointing of Blizzard. Hate to see the Bobby Kotick mentality permeate Blizzard culture up to the smallest nooks and corners.
I dont blame Blizzard one bit...Its not as if though they arent the most original company in the world. I tell you what, they also need to sue Game workshop next for stealing the ideas of warcraft and starcraft and making warhammer and 40k.
I dont blame Blizzard one bit...Its not as if though they arent the most original company in the world. I tell you what, they also need to sue Game workshop next for stealing the ideas of warcraft and starcraft and making warhammer and 40k.
US trademark system is completely ridiculous. DotA is already a known gamename. It should un-trademarkable as a game name unless you own the rights to original DotA.
I used to be a huge Blizzard fan. I'm not sure I've ever gone from enjoying and admiring a company and their products, to hating them so fast. No one sues valve.
I dont blame Blizzard one bit...Its not as if though they arent the most original company in the world. I tell you what, they also need to sue Game workshop next for stealing the ideas of warcraft and starcraft and making warhammer and 40k.
Let's say this thing goes to court some day If you could get a million DOTA fans to send physical mail to the judge claiming this is now an industry term, the case could be be made to break the trademark claim.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
So, if Valve puts out a game called "MMORPG" and trademarks the term "MMORPG" everyone here would be totally cool with it?
To be more acurate, it would be MMORPG2.
This doesn't make sense because DOTA2 is an acroynm for a particular game that is purchased, where as MMORPG is an Acroynm for a genre that can not be sold (until one is made ). Kind of a big difference.
Are you OK with naming a company after a winter weather storm. Can you image all the people that will not take cover from a future severe weather storm because they thought the weather man was talking about a game company.
But to answer your question, it depends on how good the game is.
Comments
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/blizzard-dota-name-should-belong-to-the-community/
Mike Morhaime spoke about the issue, and I think this is where people are getting confused and defensive. Blizzard wants to make "Blizzard-DoTA" (hope that's not the final name) not "DoTA 2", meaning "DoTA" itself should be left as a community term as it was developed by a community. By contrast, Valve wants to do the opposite, and trademark the "DoTA" name itself. It doesn't have the right to. I sort of doubt that if Valve did the same as Blizzard and instead named it something equally stupid like "Valve-DoTA," Blizzard would be going through the trouble.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Licensing is required only for use of the copyrighted material. Aka, the game engine and assets that are used by the mod.
The trademark, is completely separate from any licensing requirement, and ownership falls directly with the creator/s of said mod.
Blizzard only has sway over any potential sale or re-sale of DotA. They have no claim over the trademark or the sequel being made using a completely different engine with it's own assets.
Seems straight foward to me. When I think DotA, I think W3 Mod. Without W3 and modding tools, there is no DotA. I'm not connecting the dots on how Blizzard is the bad guy in this since they have largely left it alone and to the community. I would think the "community" outcry would be in favor of keeping it that way, not letting Valve dictate what "community" means.
Exactly. That's what people aren't getting. Blizz isn't trying to own DoTA, they're trying to prevent someone else from doing so. That people are actually irked that Blizz is essentially fighting for them against another corporation's greed just goes to show how quick they are to bash Blizz for anything to do whether or not there's actual merit.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
And if they dont own it, what right do they have trying to prevent someone else from doing it?
People are irked because blizzards trying to stop someone from owning something blizzard doesnt own, therefore has no right to try and deny someone else.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Dear God. Pay attention. Blizzard doesn't own it. NEITHER DOES VALVE. Valve is trying to own something built by a community of people. Blizzard isn't, because they recognise they don't own it. One is trying to leave the community alone. The other is trying to fuck them up the ass. Is it computing yet?
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
You are all forgetting the Sony/Verant case about the songs/names the bards were making up while role playing in EQ1. It does NOT MATTER who created the mod and/or name. Once you associate it with the licensed product the products owner has the ownership rights to said name, lyrics, code, ect associated with whatever was created by an outside source and brought into the gaming world.
The bard player in question attempted to sue sony for stealing his songs and names, he lost. The same applies to any mod name, mod codes, and character names. Any idea's shared amongst the player community. Once it is used within the gaming client it can/does become the sole property of the game publisher.
*eats popcorn and watch the woodblocks cry for "justice"*
Damm good weeknd enternatinment. Can only agree with several other posters in the "belive it or not, Blizzard is not the badguy here" category.
Then again i guess it is way to much effort to google how things work and read the dang thing.
This have been a good conversation
And? that still doesnt give them the right to stop someone else from trademarking something.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Sorry, but the "community" doesn't own it. Those that put the effort and time into building it do. If ownership was passed to Icefrog and Valve see's an opportunity to partner with Icefrog (ie hire Icefrog to build DOTA2) then they are not the bad guy. They just gave the owner the resources needed to expand on their original creation. Trademarking it for protection because of their investment is a wise decision.
BTW, who owns KOTOR name. Lucasarts? Bioware? Obsidian?
Actually it does, they have all the right in the world to try and do that. Just as much as Valve have to try and trademark it.
This have been a good conversation
DOTA is VERY similar to starcraft AOS which was made by the Blizzard right?
I remember that I was very disappointed with Valve's decision to tm the DOTA name.
From what i read, DOTA is an acronym for a fan developped mod used in Warcraft III. It's not an actual Blizzard property. Blizzard is sueing just for the fact that this acronym has been used in association with the Warcraft name. I'm no lawyer but i think Blizzard position is weak, Valve might have a chance. Sueing someone just because he want to use an 3rd party acronym of something that's not even yours in the first place (community mod).... i really dont know what to think.
Activision Blizzard is a far cry from the good guy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I dont blame Blizzard one bit...Its not as if though they arent the most original company in the world. I tell you what, they also need to sue Game workshop next for stealing the ideas of warcraft and starcraft and making warhammer and 40k.
looking forward to watch TSR sue Blizzard for using paladins in thier games next.
Was this statement serious?
US trademark system is completely ridiculous. DotA is already a known gamename. It should un-trademarkable as a game name unless you own the rights to original DotA.
Frakkers.
Was this statement serious?
Man, seriously, can't you tell? >.>Let's say this thing goes to court some day If you could get a million DOTA fans to send physical mail to the judge claiming this is now an industry term, the case could be be made to break the trademark claim.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So, if Valve puts out a game called "MMORPG" and trademarks the term "MMORPG" everyone here would be totally cool with it?
To be more acurate, it would be MMORPG2.
This doesn't make sense because DOTA2 is an acroynm for a particular game that is purchased, where as MMORPG is an Acroynm for a genre that can not be sold (until one is made
). Kind of a big difference.
Are you OK with naming a company after a winter weather storm. Can you image all the people that will not take cover from a future severe weather storm because they thought the weather man was talking about a game company.
But to answer your question, it depends on how good the game is.