You guys should probably stick to a different genre...
I'm not sure "quiting" an MMO is a real accomplishment.
Indeed. Are these guys looking for applause? Acceptance?
Dont mind these 2. I applaude you good Jobb lads, lets hope more people come to their senses so we can sink this shit faster...
Even if I don't like the game right now, just ... why would you want to sink that ship ?
Do you have EA stocks to dump or what ?
I dislike EA yes..for many reasons. I also dislike all these developers who keep pushing the same crap out and failing. I mean Its like living in deja vu land. How many times now have this happend since 2004? Cant they they see the Pattern? or are these games actually profitabal with low populations and as Free to play games? I guess they are because otherwise why bother making them???
They make mistakes yes, just as every human (including you). Does it justify "burning you/them down" ?
Just let Darwin do his work, it will be sufficient.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I didn't write what I wrote for anyone enjoying the game at all. This is an MMO web site, not a Star Wars specific web site. I added my two cents for the people who come here reading the forums who are on the fence about buying the game.
I'm just saying that the game has very little replayability, which isn't surprising considering it's a BioWare game and almost all of them have zero replayability. If someone reading this is sitting there wondering whether to buy this game or not, then I would just have to say it depends on whether you like repeating a very very very small pool of content on a daily basis.
If hours on end of 3 warzones can keep you entertained as a PVP'er, then go for it. Myself, as a PVP'er primarily, am extremely bored with the game.
So you people who own the game already can go crawl back in your hole, this isn't for you.
I wouldn't say they have "no replayability." I've put in over 100 hours on:
Baldur's Gate II
KOTOR
Mass Effect 1 and 2
I spent at least 200 hours in the original Dragon Age.
So you'd think with a thing like this, I would be an ideal person for TOR. And you are right. I love Bioware, and I love SW.
But Bioware only really knows how to do replay value for a single player game, and it shows. The fact that for many people, they say "roll an alt" to continue having fun after you are 50, that's a single player style game talking. And for single player games, it indeed is a path. Yet this isn't a single player. It's an MMO.
The simple fact is the majority of people are not going to be alt hounds. they will roll one, maybe two toons. They will play them to 50. After that, it is one endless grind, either on HM's, warzones, or both. They ran into the same problem Blizzard did. Yet Blizzard got around it, they made their pvp sytem better, they had a boatload of content for the end game, and they offered a lot of different things to do while leveling, so if you wanted to roll an alt, you could do it. I didn't like WoW, but I respect what they did.
TOR doesn't do this. They are trying to translate a single player game into an MMO. While they did bring some nice things to the table, I'm not sure that is really the way to go in the future, and I think you will see that over the next few months as people get bored with the game.
Its just a a game guys, a game bascially like any other game. Sounds like people are just overdosing on MMO;s and blaming the game or genre these days.
They are supposed to be virtual worlds...
Says who? Wouldn't that be a separate, or subgenre, the mmovw?
Its just a a game guys, a game bascially like any other game. Sounds like people are just overdosing on MMO;s and blaming the game or genre these days.
They are supposed to be virtual worlds...
Says who? Wouldn't that be a separate, or subgenre, the mmovw?
Says every MMO before and inculding WoW.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
SWTOR is a mediocre single player RPG with a monthly fee, nothing but quest grind and boring instanced dungeons.
There is simply nothing else to do, i have never seen an AAA MMO with so little content, 3 warzones, kill 10 quests... where is the massive in this game? where is the PVP? and the crafting? lol... everything is garbage.
All the races look the same, the graphics are subpar at best, the UI sucks, not enough armor models, mirrored classes, terribad talent trees, 1,5 sec cooldown for combat...what a snorefest.
MMORPGs need community driven content like politics, housing, territorial control, PQs, good crafting, open world PVP, sieges... SOMETHING, im not going to pay 15$ a month to reroll and grind the same kill 10 quests again, lol, what was Bioware thinking?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Its just a a game guys, a game bascially like any other game. Sounds like people are just overdosing on MMO;s and blaming the game or genre these days.
They are supposed to be virtual worlds...
Says who? Wouldn't that be a separate, or subgenre, the mmovw?
Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..
As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO
If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!
Good luck in your gaming
Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes. I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you. Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.
Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,
1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.
2) Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's
3) Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon [TM]
4) Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles. On no, wait, also coming soon.
5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others. OK, they're doing something right here.
OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.
But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..
As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO
If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!
Good luck in your gaming
Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes. I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you. Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.
Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,
1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.
2) Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's
3) Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon [TM]
4) Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles. On no, wait, also coming soon.
5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others. OK, they're doing something right here.
OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.
But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.
I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.
What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.
The wife and I are still loving the game. We have been playing since day 1 and we both finally hit level 45 this weekend. We both work long hours during the week, so we do not play when we get home. After we hit level 50 and do the content there, we can move to the light side and do it again. It all boils down to what you get for the money you spend. I can, without a doubt say that the wife and I are getting our hard earned money's worth!!
I didn't write what I wrote for anyone enjoying the game at all. This is an MMO web site, not a Star Wars specific web site. I added my two cents for the people who come here reading the forums who are on the fence about buying the game.
I'm just saying that the game has very little replayability, which isn't surprising considering it's a BioWare game and almost all of them have zero replayability. If someone reading this is sitting there wondering whether to buy this game or not, then I would just have to say it depends on whether you like repeating a very very very small pool of content on a daily basis.
If hours on end of 3 warzones can keep you entertained as a PVP'er, then go for it. Myself, as a PVP'er primarily, am extremely bored with the game.
So you people who own the game already can go crawl back in your hole, this isn't for you.
Whether an individual thinks a game has replayability or not I guess could be subjective but I don't think most would agree with you that Bioware games have zero replayability. I know for me BW games hands down get the absolute most replay from me, I have spent hundreds of hours in every single BW game I've ever playedfrom the BG series to Da and ME from the different classes,genders and choices.
Sure you can easily find little to no value from the start even but I think the majority of gamers especially those who enjoy BW games would disagree with that assessment.
As for the original topic I always find it funny to see people post statements about having maxed out toons and making it halfway through others then compaining the game isn't fun or what have you.
I think these people just burn themselves out because I've played a few mmo's I thought were trash and there was no way I could reach max level with them.
Let's not confuse a game lacking replay value for you as an individual with being a boring or bad game, if you guys could play it for hundreds of hours before getting bored I would suggest you have a different problem all together.
Its just a a game guys, a game bascially like any other game. Sounds like people are just overdosing on MMO;s and blaming the game or genre these days.
They are supposed to be virtual worlds...
Says who? Wouldn't that be a separate, or subgenre, the mmovw?
Says every MMO before and inculding WoW.
It was the main reason that I, and several friends, made the decision to jump into the genre. In the beginning, I used to day dream about how incredible these games would turn out down the road. Little did I know...
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..
As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO
If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!
Good luck in your gaming
Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes. I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you. Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.
Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,
1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.
2) Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's
3) Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon [TM]
4) Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles. On no, wait, also coming soon.
5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others. OK, they're doing something right here.
OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.
But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.
I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.
What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.
Who cares if they weren't in at launch? They have them now and that is what's important.
ToR is not competing with games made 5+ years ago, it is competing with games available now.
Please get this through your head. The "other games didn't have these things at launch either" argument is just stupid.
So is arguing for these things. They are implementing them. Put up with it or go play something else. It's really not that hard. Most of us have moved on.
Its just a a game guys, a game bascially like any other game. Sounds like people are just overdosing on MMO;s and blaming the game or genre these days.
They are supposed to be virtual worlds...
Says who? Wouldn't that be a separate, or subgenre, the mmovw?
Says every MMO before and inculding WoW.
It was the main reason that I, and several friends, made the decision to jump into the genre. In the beginning, I used to day dream about how incredible these games would turn out down the road. Little did I know...
...that the developers would make a change and save your rl
SWTOR is a mediocre single player RPG with a monthly fee, nothing but quest grind and boring instanced dungeons.
There is simply nothing else to do, i have never seen an AAA MMO with so little content, 3 warzones, kill 10 quests... where is the massive in this game? where is the PVP? and the crafting? lol... everything is garbage.
All the races look the same, the graphics are subpar at best, the UI sucks, not enough armor models, mirrored classes, terribad talent trees, 1,5 sec cooldown for combat...what a snorefest.
MMORPGs need community driven content like politics, housing, territorial control, PQs, good crafting, open world PVP, sieges... SOMETHING, im not going to pay 15$ a month to reroll and grind the same kill 10 quests again, lol, what was Bioware thinking?
I agree! I was looking for an MMORPG to play, and only found a massive online role-playing game that I can play with multiple friends.
Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..
As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO
If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!
Good luck in your gaming
Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes. I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you. Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.
Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,
1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.
2) Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's
3) Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon [TM]
4) Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles. On no, wait, also coming soon.
5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others. OK, they're doing something right here.
OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.
But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.
I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.
What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.
So what if those games didn't include them at launch? The gaming market isn't static. Things develop. This isn't 2004 anymore. This is 2012. You should have at least some of these things at launch.
A lot of these things are MMO 101. Most games can include at least 50% of those things mentioned, yet still do some of those things which are unique. Guild Wars offered tons of customization in the way you played your toon. WoW offered a sheer massive amount of content, as well as things like arenas.
Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..
As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO
If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!
Good luck in your gaming
Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes. I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you. Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.
Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,
1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.
2) Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's
3) Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon [TM]
4) Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles. On no, wait, also coming soon.
5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others. OK, they're doing something right here.
OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.
But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.
I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.
What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.
So what if those games didn't include them at launch? The gaming market isn't static. Things develop. This isn't 2004 anymore. This is 2012. You should have at least some of these things at launch.
A lot of these things are MMO 101. Most games can include at least 50% of those things mentioned, yet still do some of those things which are unique. Guild Wars offered tons of customization in the way you played your toon. WoW offered a sheer massive amount of content, as well as things like arenas.
Just because it's not 50% of the things you wanted doesn't mean they didn't include anything.
Again, you mention arenas, but it wasn't introduced until after BC. What's worse? How many games had arenas after WoW?
SWTOR is a single player multiplayer game not an MMO. I can't believe they are charging a sub fee after seeing how instanced and linear it is. But of course there will always be people paying it. I started playing Star Trek Online again because it went f2p, and I only play it because the pvp is fun, everything else in the game is instanced repetitive crap. I may come back to swtor if it ever goes f2p (pvp isn;t too bad but its player vs armament) but probably not because GW2 will be out way before then (praying GW2 isn't crap either, at least there is no sub).
Who cares if they weren't in at launch? They have them now and that is what's important.
ToR is not competing with games made 5+ years ago, it is competing with games available now.
Please get this through your head. The "other games didn't have these things at launch either" argument is just stupid.
So is arguing for these things. They are implementing them. Put up with it or go play something else. It's really not that hard. Most of us have moved on.
That would be why we are all here, on an MMO forum discussing these things. This is the place where MMOvets come to die afterall, so long as it's about MMO's and follows the guidelines set then there shouldn't be a problem with the content they post. If no one was interested then the thread would just die anyway.
Anyway I couldn't give to hoots about what game they are talking about. However when people like yourself say that since a game made years ago didn't have certain established features that this excuses a brand new game to also lack them....it's just so idiotic I find it hard to believe you are serious.
Sorry but I have to disagree with your assessment that new games are somehow obligated to play keep up with the joneses, in this day of instant information many of us would rather a developer make decisions on what is going to make it in at launch and what's not and then actually launching the game, constantly trying to keep up with every function just to put it in at launch is a good way to never release.
I for one have no problem with the fact that some of these things aren't in at launch especially since they just turn into nice ittle features to look forward to down the line.
Now obviously for those who find the game lacking these things may be important but only time will tell if there are enough people who feel the same as me or not.
Don't waste your time arguing with the fanboi's of SWTOR. Their game is not crap. In 2012 the world should still be flat, it was in 2004. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i hear is stupid comments from people claiming this is so great, but go figure they're not 50???? Do you mean to tell me most people's complaints are at lvl 50? Yes you morons..... Seriously get with the program, my character is a battlemaster as well, and has been one for almost a month now, granted I play more than most of you, but guess what grinding the same 3 wz's is boring as shit. Ow you want to open world pvp??? But but you don't come to MMO's to do that, may i suggest you switch genre's? This is seriously the response to some people's comments. Yes open world pvp is fun, and guess what the benefit is at max pvp lvl or max pvp gear lvl in any game is? That's right killing other players. But in this amazing game that is as good as any other 2004 game, "because you don't need working features at release" world pvp is non existant.
So before you go ranting on about how great your game is, get 50 please. Then you can have real opinions, until then don't log onto a forum and cry that your game is great when you have no credible source references. I'm not even going to touch the speed haxs in wz's or the bringing in 12 members, raid group que at same time, leave group reque trick. SIgh bad days ahead for mmo's if this is the future of mmorpg's.
There is simply nothing else to do, i have never seen an AAA MMO with so little content, 3 warzones, kill 10 quests... where is the massive in this game? where is the PVP? and the crafting? lol... everything is garbage.
WoW was a AAA title...
When WoW launched, it had *one* weekly raid. Three battlegrounds. No Arena. No top-level Hard mode dungeons. Almost every quest in the game was a kill 10 quest.
If everyone had held WoW to the standards you mentioned above, it wouldn't have had a single subscriber.
A lot of people seem to be disappointed that a game that has had one month of subscriber feedback doesn't have all the features that, over the course of many years, other MMOs have developed.
It takes time and feedback to make a great MMO. You can't anticipate what your audience will want until they are playing the game. It's a step-by-step process, with hundreds of iterations.
"Crash programs fail because they are based on the assumption that with nine pregnant women, you can get a baby in one month." - Werner Von Braun
The issue isn't that they have less content than WoW, it's that they're charging the same amount of money as WoW for much less of a game.
if you're charging a sub, you need to have as much content as WoW. Simple.
Can't do that? not surprising, so make your game free to play or buy to play. Or, if you insist on charging a sub, don't clone WoW and make your game entirely different.
Only one game is all *that* different (as in, most mechanics are different) from world of warcraft in the standard MMORPG genre and that's still B2P.
Don't waste your time arguing with the fanboi's of SWTOR. Their game is not crap. In 2012 the world should still be flat, it was in 2004. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i hear is stupid comments from people claiming this is so great, but go figure they're not 50???? Do you mean to tell me most people's complaints are at lvl 50? Yes you morons..... Seriously get with the program, my character is a battlemaster as well, and has been one for almost a month now, granted I play more than most of you, but guess what grinding the same 3 wz's is boring as shit. Ow you want to open world pvp??? But but you don't come to MMO's to do that, may i suggest you switch genre's? This is seriously the response to some people's comments. Yes open world pvp is fun, and guess what the benefit is at max pvp lvl or max pvp gear lvl in any game is? That's right killing other players. But in this amazing game that is as good as any other 2004 game, "because you don't need working features at release" world pvp is non existant.
So before you go ranting on about how great your game is, get 50 please. Then you can have real opinions, until then don't log onto a forum and cry that your game is great when you have no credible source references. I'm not even going to touch the speed haxs in wz's or the bringing in 12 members, raid group que at same time, leave group reque trick. SIgh bad days ahead for mmo's if this is the future of mmorpg's.
I last posted a few posts above your last and don't recall many people praising the game as anything great just not as horrible as some other posters are proclaiming it. and exactly what difference does getting a character to level fifty make in forming an opinion about a game?
Not sure if this was the same topic I brought this up in but I'm curious how or why do people seem to be so eager and willing to play a game they find boring,flawed, etc to max level? That's something like forty hours (unless you are purposely grinding to max level because you are one of the people who says "mmo's don't start until max level").
I think this kind of thinking may be one of the reasons we seem to see so many bamboozling themselves, folks if you don't find a game fun from 1-50 you probably aren't going to enjoy it any more once you reach max level.
And sorry to tell you an opinion is an opinion and mine are as "real" as yours.
The issue isn't that they have less content than WoW, it's that they're charging the same amount of money as WoW for much less of a game.
if you're charging a sub, you need to have as much content as WoW. Simple.
Can't do that? not surprising, so make your game free to play or buy to play. Or, if you insist on charging a sub, don't clone WoW and make your game entirely different.
Only one game is all *that* different (as in, most mechanics are different) from world of warcraft in the standard MMORPG genre and that's still B2P.
But the subscription model is the *most important* feature to copy from WoW in the investors' minds.
Comments
They make mistakes yes, just as every human (including you). Does it justify "burning you/them down" ?
Just let Darwin do his work, it will be sufficient.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I wouldn't say they have "no replayability." I've put in over 100 hours on:
Baldur's Gate II
KOTOR
Mass Effect 1 and 2
I spent at least 200 hours in the original Dragon Age.
So you'd think with a thing like this, I would be an ideal person for TOR. And you are right. I love Bioware, and I love SW.
But Bioware only really knows how to do replay value for a single player game, and it shows. The fact that for many people, they say "roll an alt" to continue having fun after you are 50, that's a single player style game talking. And for single player games, it indeed is a path. Yet this isn't a single player. It's an MMO.
The simple fact is the majority of people are not going to be alt hounds. they will roll one, maybe two toons. They will play them to 50. After that, it is one endless grind, either on HM's, warzones, or both. They ran into the same problem Blizzard did. Yet Blizzard got around it, they made their pvp sytem better, they had a boatload of content for the end game, and they offered a lot of different things to do while leveling, so if you wanted to roll an alt, you could do it. I didn't like WoW, but I respect what they did.
TOR doesn't do this. They are trying to translate a single player game into an MMO. While they did bring some nice things to the table, I'm not sure that is really the way to go in the future, and I think you will see that over the next few months as people get bored with the game.
Says who? Wouldn't that be a separate, or subgenre, the mmovw?
Says every MMO before and inculding WoW.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
SWTOR is a mediocre single player RPG with a monthly fee, nothing but quest grind and boring instanced dungeons.
There is simply nothing else to do, i have never seen an AAA MMO with so little content, 3 warzones, kill 10 quests... where is the massive in this game? where is the PVP? and the crafting? lol... everything is garbage.
All the races look the same, the graphics are subpar at best, the UI sucks, not enough armor models, mirrored classes, terribad talent trees, 1,5 sec cooldown for combat...what a snorefest.
MMORPGs need community driven content like politics, housing, territorial control, PQs, good crafting, open world PVP, sieges... SOMETHING, im not going to pay 15$ a month to reroll and grind the same kill 10 quests again, lol, what was Bioware thinking?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
It's still an MMORPG.
Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,
1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.
2) Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's
3) Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon [TM]
4) Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles. On no, wait, also coming soon.
5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others. OK, they're doing something right here.
OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.
But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.
What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.
The wife and I are still loving the game. We have been playing since day 1 and we both finally hit level 45 this weekend. We both work long hours during the week, so we do not play when we get home. After we hit level 50 and do the content there, we can move to the light side and do it again. It all boils down to what you get for the money you spend. I can, without a doubt say that the wife and I are getting our hard earned money's worth!!
Whether an individual thinks a game has replayability or not I guess could be subjective but I don't think most would agree with you that Bioware games have zero replayability. I know for me BW games hands down get the absolute most replay from me, I have spent hundreds of hours in every single BW game I've ever playedfrom the BG series to Da and ME from the different classes,genders and choices.
Sure you can easily find little to no value from the start even but I think the majority of gamers especially those who enjoy BW games would disagree with that assessment.
As for the original topic I always find it funny to see people post statements about having maxed out toons and making it halfway through others then compaining the game isn't fun or what have you.
I think these people just burn themselves out because I've played a few mmo's I thought were trash and there was no way I could reach max level with them.
Let's not confuse a game lacking replay value for you as an individual with being a boring or bad game, if you guys could play it for hundreds of hours before getting bored I would suggest you have a different problem all together.
It was the main reason that I, and several friends, made the decision to jump into the genre. In the beginning, I used to day dream about how incredible these games would turn out down the road. Little did I know...
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
So is arguing for these things. They are implementing them. Put up with it or go play something else. It's really not that hard. Most of us have moved on.
...that the developers would make a change and save your rl
I agree! I was looking for an MMORPG to play, and only found a massive online role-playing game that I can play with multiple friends.
No elves, dwarves or anything like a real MMORPG!
So what if those games didn't include them at launch? The gaming market isn't static. Things develop. This isn't 2004 anymore. This is 2012. You should have at least some of these things at launch.
A lot of these things are MMO 101. Most games can include at least 50% of those things mentioned, yet still do some of those things which are unique. Guild Wars offered tons of customization in the way you played your toon. WoW offered a sheer massive amount of content, as well as things like arenas.
Just because it's not 50% of the things you wanted doesn't mean they didn't include anything.
Again, you mention arenas, but it wasn't introduced until after BC. What's worse? How many games had arenas after WoW?
SWTOR is a single player multiplayer game not an MMO. I can't believe they are charging a sub fee after seeing how instanced and linear it is. But of course there will always be people paying it. I started playing Star Trek Online again because it went f2p, and I only play it because the pvp is fun, everything else in the game is instanced repetitive crap. I may come back to swtor if it ever goes f2p (pvp isn;t too bad but its player vs armament) but probably not because GW2 will be out way before then (praying GW2 isn't crap either, at least there is no sub).
Sorry but I have to disagree with your assessment that new games are somehow obligated to play keep up with the joneses, in this day of instant information many of us would rather a developer make decisions on what is going to make it in at launch and what's not and then actually launching the game, constantly trying to keep up with every function just to put it in at launch is a good way to never release.
I for one have no problem with the fact that some of these things aren't in at launch especially since they just turn into nice ittle features to look forward to down the line.
Now obviously for those who find the game lacking these things may be important but only time will tell if there are enough people who feel the same as me or not.
Don't waste your time arguing with the fanboi's of SWTOR. Their game is not crap. In 2012 the world should still be flat, it was in 2004. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i hear is stupid comments from people claiming this is so great, but go figure they're not 50???? Do you mean to tell me most people's complaints are at lvl 50? Yes you morons..... Seriously get with the program, my character is a battlemaster as well, and has been one for almost a month now, granted I play more than most of you, but guess what grinding the same 3 wz's is boring as shit. Ow you want to open world pvp??? But but you don't come to MMO's to do that, may i suggest you switch genre's? This is seriously the response to some people's comments. Yes open world pvp is fun, and guess what the benefit is at max pvp lvl or max pvp gear lvl in any game is? That's right killing other players. But in this amazing game that is as good as any other 2004 game, "because you don't need working features at release" world pvp is non existant.
So before you go ranting on about how great your game is, get 50 please. Then you can have real opinions, until then don't log onto a forum and cry that your game is great when you have no credible source references. I'm not even going to touch the speed haxs in wz's or the bringing in 12 members, raid group que at same time, leave group reque trick. SIgh bad days ahead for mmo's if this is the future of mmorpg's.
WoW was a AAA title...
When WoW launched, it had *one* weekly raid. Three battlegrounds. No Arena. No top-level Hard mode dungeons. Almost every quest in the game was a kill 10 quest.
If everyone had held WoW to the standards you mentioned above, it wouldn't have had a single subscriber.
A lot of people seem to be disappointed that a game that has had one month of subscriber feedback doesn't have all the features that, over the course of many years, other MMOs have developed.
It takes time and feedback to make a great MMO. You can't anticipate what your audience will want until they are playing the game. It's a step-by-step process, with hundreds of iterations.
"Crash programs fail because they are based on the assumption that with nine pregnant women, you can get a baby in one month." - Werner Von Braun
The issue isn't that they have less content than WoW, it's that they're charging the same amount of money as WoW for much less of a game.
if you're charging a sub, you need to have as much content as WoW. Simple.
Can't do that? not surprising, so make your game free to play or buy to play. Or, if you insist on charging a sub, don't clone WoW and make your game entirely different.
Only one game is all *that* different (as in, most mechanics are different) from world of warcraft in the standard MMORPG genre and that's still B2P.
I last posted a few posts above your last and don't recall many people praising the game as anything great just not as horrible as some other posters are proclaiming it. and exactly what difference does getting a character to level fifty make in forming an opinion about a game?
Not sure if this was the same topic I brought this up in but I'm curious how or why do people seem to be so eager and willing to play a game they find boring,flawed, etc to max level? That's something like forty hours (unless you are purposely grinding to max level because you are one of the people who says "mmo's don't start until max level").
I think this kind of thinking may be one of the reasons we seem to see so many bamboozling themselves, folks if you don't find a game fun from 1-50 you probably aren't going to enjoy it any more once you reach max level.
And sorry to tell you an opinion is an opinion and mine are as "real" as yours.
But the subscription model is the *most important* feature to copy from WoW in the investors' minds.