Will there be micro-transactions or things to buy which don't come with the box, like character slots?
Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.
There are two distinct subjects here, in orange and in yellow.
Nowhere does it say they are equivalent. It says whatever is in the store (which could be anything or nothing) won't give you an advantage over what is in the game.
Can we stop talking about this in the other thread?
you can bury your head in the sand over this as much as you like, but as i said before, any item that can be obtained in gameplay, no matter how rare the loot drop etc, can be obtained in the cash shop, how much for i don't know, but, while buying these items will not give an advantage over anybody who obtained the item through gameplay, it will give an advantage against anybody who hasnt. it really is as simple as that.
This part, the part I highlighted in red, is completely, 100% wrong. It does not logically follow in any way shape or form from what they've put in their FAQ.I don't know how more clearly I can spell it out.
Cali if I'm correct he' never liked the game in the first place, due to things being worded differently, it gave him ammunition, how ever his bullets are just blanks...
So with that being said personally I'd just let him feel as though he correct only to be stand corrected at release, I mean personally it means the same, cristmas clothes...halloween costumes, easter costumes, extra caharacter slots, and so on.
Just people have to spin something, they must find a fault in this game, and it was well I guess...wording lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
im confused, why are people getting upset about items being sold in the c-shop? as far as im concerned, it doesn't really matter what arenanet sells in the shop when this is a skill based game instead of a gear based game. you could fork over money for the whole store for all i care. just because you have unlocked everything associated with your character doesn't mean you won't still suck at playing your character. you can't buy an IQ.
People needs their daily panic dose. I guess GW2 is the pick of the day. Stay tuned for tommorrow's new "omg the sky is falling topic"
To not offer an advantage over what is already available through investment of time in the game, means that you can derive no advantage beyond what can otherwise be acquired within the game through normal gameplay.
It says nothing to denounce the possibility that anything equivilant to what can be acquired in the game, no matter how disfficult or time consuming it is to acquire, could be purchasable through the cash shop.
Because they've said, over and over, that max stat gear will be very easy to obtain in game, even for the very casual. It's rare skins that offer no stat advantage where the "prestige" will lie.
Will there be micro-transactions or things to buy which don't come with the box, like character slots?
Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.
There are two distinct subjects here, in orange and in yellow.
Nowhere does it say they are equivalent. It says whatever is in the store (which could be anything or nothing) won't give you an advantage over what is in the game.
Can we stop talking about this in the other thread?
you can bury your head in the sand over this as much as you like, but as i said before, any item that can be obtained in gameplay, no matter how rare the loot drop etc, can be obtained in the cash shop, how much for i don't know, but, while buying these items will not give an advantage over anybody who obtained the item through gameplay, it will give an advantage against anybody who hasnt. it really is as simple as that.
This part, the part I highlighted in red, is completely, 100% wrong. It does not logically follow in any way shape or form from what they've put in their FAQ.I don't know how more clearly I can spell it out.
How is what Phry said wrong?
To quote you:
"Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time."
To not offer an advantage over what is already available through investment of time in the game, means that you can derive no advantage beyond what can otherwise be acquired within the game through normal gameplay.
It says nothing to denounce the possibility that anything equivilant to what can be acquired in the game, no matter how disfficult or time consuming it is to acquire, could be purchasable through the cash shop.
What Phry is saying is that anything in the game can also be bought in the shop. As in literally anything and everything.
It certainly could be, we don't know what will be in the shop.
However, that is not what the FAQ says. The FAQ only says that whatever is in the shop (which could be anything, everything, or nothing) will not offer an advantage.
What is wrong is him suggesting that the part in red is what the FAQ says.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
To not offer an advantage over what is already available through investment of time in the game, means that you can derive no advantage beyond what can otherwise be acquired within the game through normal gameplay.
It says nothing to denounce the possibility that anything equivilant to what can be acquired in the game, no matter how disfficult or time consuming it is to acquire, could be purchasable through the cash shop.
Because they've said, over and over, that max stat gear will be very easy to obtain in game, even for the very casual. It's rare skins that offer no stat advantage where the "prestige" will lie.
Oh NO!! You just opened another door. Now someone is going to claim the game is too easy if even casual players can get max stat gears LOL. "How can I show I am awesome if max stats gears can be obtained even by casual !!!"
Will there be micro-transactions or things to buy which don't come with the box, like character slots?
Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.
There are two distinct subjects here, in orange and in yellow.
Nowhere does it say they are equivalent. It says whatever is in the store (which could be anything or nothing) won't give you an advantage over what is in the game.
Can we stop talking about this in the other thread?
you can bury your head in the sand over this as much as you like, but as i said before, any item that can be obtained in gameplay, no matter how rare the loot drop etc, can be obtained in the cash shop, how much for i don't know, but, while buying these items will not give an advantage over anybody who obtained the item through gameplay, it will give an advantage against anybody who hasnt. it really is as simple as that.
This part, the part I highlighted in red, is completely, 100% wrong. It does not logically follow in any way shape or form from what they've put in their FAQ.I don't know how more clearly I can spell it out.
How is what Phry said wrong?
To quote you:
"Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time."
To not offer an advantage over what is already available through investment of time in the game, means that you can derive no advantage beyond what can otherwise be acquired within the game through normal gameplay.
It says nothing to denounce the possibility that anything equivilant to what can be acquired in the game, no matter how disfficult or time consuming it is to acquire, could be purchasable through the cash shop.
And that's why you and Phry are wrong. You are both only looking at that 1 quote from the FAQ, instead of reading all the other quotes by Anet, and ignoring the items they sold in the GW1 cash shop.
Seriously, just ask yourself this. Do you honestly expect them to sell every single item in the cash shop? Like, seriously?
I understand if you're skeptical towards the GW2 cash shop if you haven't looked up on any info from GW2, or haven't checked the GW1 cash shop.
But if you actually read up on all of the quotes made by Anet, if you actually checked the GW1 cash shop, and you STILL believe this game will be pay2win (or that they will sell every single item in the game in the cash shop) then you're not trolling, you're not misinformed, you're not a hater, you're just a plain RETARD
Never did I state that I expect every single item in the game to be sold in the cash shop. Rather, I stated that the vague wording of the FAQ does not disqualify that scenario from occuring.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell every item in the cash shop? No.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
Never did I state that I expect every single item in the game to be sold in the cash shop. Rather, I stated that the vague wording of the FAQ does not disqualify that scenario from occuring.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell every item in the cash shop? No.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
Coming from GW1, I completely disagree with that. They have never done that in GW1 and I don't see why they would start that now.
I'll repeat myself really quickly here. Arenanet has said repeatedly that stat-wise, top-end gear should be easy for even casuals to get. So selling statted gear in the cash shop would be rather pointless.
Never did I state that I expect every single item in the game to be sold in the cash shop. Rather, I stated that the vague wording of the FAQ does not disqualify that scenario from occuring.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell every item in the cash shop? No.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
Coming from GW1, I completely disagree with that. They have never done that in GW1 and I don't see why they would start that now.
And I respect your opinion on that.
But I personally have serious reservations about it. The wording is just too vague for me. I've seen cash shop creep ruin a lot of MMOs, so yeah I'm hesitant to believe that ArenaNet won't push things too far. Paritcularly since the wording leaves the door wide open for them to do so without having to go back on their word.
Never did I state that I expect every single item in the game to be sold in the cash shop. Rather, I stated that the vague wording of the FAQ does not disqualify that scenario from occuring.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell every item in the cash shop? No.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
Coming from GW1, I completely disagree with that. They have never done that in GW1 and I don't see why they would start that now.
And I respect your opinion on that.
But I personally have serious reservations about it. The wording is just too vague for me. I've seen cash shop creep ruin a lot of MMOs, so yeah I'm hesitant to believe that ArenaNet won't push things too far. Paritcularly since the wording leaves the door wide open for them to do so without having to go back on their word.
Like i said before, stop looking at that 1 quote, and look at the whole picture
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
There are a number of solid reasons to believe that it will not in fact happen. The only thing even remotely in favor is the new wording of the faq - wording that only potential leaves room for it to possibly happen (a possibility that if realized would contradict a number of other statements made by ANet developers, their fundamental design goals and philosophy, and their established cash-shop history with GW1, among other things).
So lets hear it: what solid evidence exists to suggest that there will be "P2W" items? Not just a statement makes allows for this to be potentially be the case - but that it will in all likelihood happen.
And that's why you and Phry are wrong. You are both only looking at that 1 quote from the FAQ, instead of reading all the other quotes by Anet, and ignoring the items they sold in the GW1 cash shop.
Seriously, just ask yourself this. Do you honestly expect them to sell every single item in the cash shop? Like, seriously?
I understand if you're skeptical towards the GW2 cash shop if you haven't looked up on any info from GW2, or haven't checked the GW1 cash shop.
But if you actually read up on all of the quotes made by Anet, if you actually checked the GW1 cash shop, and you STILL believe this game will be pay2win (or that they will sell every single item in the game in the cash shop) then you're not trolling, you're not misinformed, you're not a hater, you're just a plain RETARD
I think the point is, the change to the FAQ allows them the freedom to put anything in the store, provided it is not exclusive to the store.
This just reminds of Turbine and LOTRO, with their now infamous "we will not sell armor or weapons in the store" and then one year later, there are armor and weapons in the store. People change, companies change, games change.
I don't know whether ArenaNet and NCSoft will put such things in the store, but it is pretty clear that they aren't prepared to rule it out from happening.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
But now the real question - what evidence do you have of this actually occuring? There are a number of solid reasons to believe that it will not in fact happen. The only thing even remotely in favor is the new wording of the faq - wording that only potential leaves room for it to possibly happen (a possibility that if realized would contradict a number of other statements made by ANet developers, their fundamental design goals and philosophy, and their established cash-shop history with GW1, among other things).
So lets hear it: what solid evidence exists to suggest not just that it's some vague possibility - but that it will in all likelihood happen.
I have none, but nor do you or anyone else jumping to ArenaNet's defense have any evidence to the contrary, aside from anecdotal evidence.
Never once have I said that ArenaNet will absolutely, one hundrend percent, sell top tier gear and the most difficult to acquire skills and other such items in the cash shop. Merely, that I expect them to.
If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't.
I don't get why you guys are taking such offense to the fact that other posters have reservations about the cash shop.
And that's why you and Phry are wrong. You are both only looking at that 1 quote from the FAQ, instead of reading all the other quotes by Anet, and ignoring the items they sold in the GW1 cash shop.
Seriously, just ask yourself this. Do you honestly expect them to sell every single item in the cash shop? Like, seriously?
I understand if you're skeptical towards the GW2 cash shop if you haven't looked up on any info from GW2, or haven't checked the GW1 cash shop.
But if you actually read up on all of the quotes made by Anet, if you actually checked the GW1 cash shop, and you STILL believe this game will be pay2win (or that they will sell every single item in the game in the cash shop) then you're not trolling, you're not misinformed, you're not a hater, you're just a plain RETARD
I think the point is, the change to the FAQ allows them the freedom to put anything in the store, provided it is not exclusive to the store.
This just reminds of Turbine and LOTRO, with their now infamous "we will not sell armor or weapons in the store" and then one year later, there are armor and weapons in the store. People change, companies change, games change.
I don't know whether ArenaNet and NCSoft will put such things in the store, but it is pretty clear that they aren't prepared to rule it out from happening.
Anet might put armor or weapons in the store, but then it will probably be skins exclusive to the cash shop.
I'm sure they won't sell armor/weapons that are rare and available in-game, in the cash shop aswell
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
But now the real question - what evidence do you have of this actually occuring? There are a number of solid reasons to believe that it will not in fact happen. The only thing even remotely in favor is the new wording of the faq - wording that only potential leaves room for it to possibly happen (a possibility that if realized would contradict a number of other statements made by ANet developers, their fundamental design goals and philosophy, and their established cash-shop history with GW1, among other things).
So lets hear it: what solid evidence exists to suggest not just that it's some vague possibility - but that it will in all likelihood happen.
I have none, but nor do you or anyone else jumping to ArenaNet's defense have any evidence to the contrary, aside from anecdotal evidence.
Never once have I said that ArenaNet will absolutely, one hundrend percent, sell top tier gear and the most difficult to acquire skills and other such items in the cash shop. Merely, that I expect them to.
If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't.
I don't get why you guys are taking such offense to the fact that other posters have reservations about the cash shop.
/facepalm
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Never did I state that I expect every single item in the game to be sold in the cash shop. Rather, I stated that the vague wording of the FAQ does not disqualify that scenario from occuring.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell every item in the cash shop? No.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
Coming from GW1, I completely disagree with that. They have never done that in GW1 and I don't see why they would start that now.
And I respect your opinion on that.
But I personally have serious reservations about it. The wording is just too vague for me. I've seen cash shop creep ruin a lot of MMOs, so yeah I'm hesitant to believe that ArenaNet won't push things too far. Paritcularly since the wording leaves the door wide open for them to do so without having to go back on their word.
Like i said before, stop looking at that 1 quote, and look at the whole picture
You can't blame people for looking at that one quote and start to wonder. The info went from only cosmetic items in the cash shop to this. Why bother to change it to something different if nothing about the cash shop is changing.
The new quote suggests top end items will be sold now where as before not at all. You can still obtain those same items in game, but that is the same as a lot of cash shop games and a lot of people don't like that.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
But now the real question - what evidence do you have of this actually occuring? There are a number of solid reasons to believe that it will not in fact happen. The only thing even remotely in favor is the new wording of the faq - wording that only potential leaves room for it to possibly happen (a possibility that if realized would contradict a number of other statements made by ANet developers, their fundamental design goals and philosophy, and their established cash-shop history with GW1, among other things).
So lets hear it: what solid evidence exists to suggest not just that it's some vague possibility - but that it will in all likelihood happen.
I have none, but nor do you or anyone else jumping to ArenaNet's defense have any evidence to the contrary, aside from anecdotal evidence.
Never once have I said that ArenaNet will absolutely, one hundrend percent, sell top tier gear and the most difficult to acquire skills and other such items in the cash shop. Merely, that I expect them to.
If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't.
I don't get why you guys are taking such offense to the fact that other posters have reservations about the cash shop.
The reason we are taking such offense is not because of people having reservations about the cash shop.
But I personally have serious reservations about it. The wording is just too vague for me. I've seen cash shop creep ruin a lot of MMOs, so yeah I'm hesitant to believe that ArenaNet won't push things too far. Paritcularly since the wording leaves the door wide open for them to do so without having to go back on their word.
Won't matter if they DID decide to put armor with stats in the cash shop, top stats will be easy for even casuals to attain. Though it would be rather pointless to do so.
I appreciate people are skeptical. People have been burned by MMOs in the past. The default position for any MMO player probably should be to distrust everything that comes out of a developer's mouth. But can we all just please agree to be wary without all the doom and gloom?
Yes the wording is a little ambiguous when it comes to the potential for Pay to Skip, but it is not ambiguous at all when it comes to Pay to Win. It is NOT Pay to Win.
Let's recap.
First, this is ArenaNet, who have managed a cash shop for their first game for years now without Pay to Win. Yes, unlock packs are a little bit of Pay to Skip, but they only showed up in the game after all the expansions are out so new players could quickly join PVP. They're also not as bad as you think they are once you know the details. GW2 also won't have them because everything is automatically unlocked for Structured PVP.
Secondly, GW2 is not a gear based vertical progression game when it comes to PVE either. Max stat gear is easy to come by, and when you do a dungeon or a grind, it's for a vanity skin. Even if they did sell gear with stats it's kind of hard to see how it matters at all. Gear in GW2 has a minimum level requirement (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Reaver for instance). So even if they did sell level 80 gear in the shop, the only "Skip" advantage it would give you would be the time for you to upgrade your level 79 and below gear with the easily obtainable generic level 80 gear.
Third, seriously, WITH THIS SHITSTORM WHY WOULD THEY EVEN DO IT? The game has Transmutation Stones in it. These allow you to combine the stats of one piece of gear with the look of another. See where I'm going with this? If the game is all about getting the look you want, then they could just sell level 1 gear in the shop along with a transmutation stone, and you could copy the look onto your easily obtainable generic level 80 gear.
I know this is an internet forum and all, but can we please all just calm down and wait to see what the store looks like before passing judgement?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
im confused, why are people getting upset about items being sold in the c-shop? as far as im concerned, it doesn't really matter what arenanet sells in the shop when this is a skill based game instead of a gear based game. you could fork over money for the whole store for all i care. just because you have unlocked everything associated with your character doesn't mean you won't still suck at playing your character. you can't buy an IQ.
More's the pity. I'd personally plunk down money to buy comprehension skills for some of the posters here
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
But now the real question - what evidence do you have of this actually occuring? There are a number of solid reasons to believe that it will not in fact happen. The only thing even remotely in favor is the new wording of the faq - wording that only potential leaves room for it to possibly happen (a possibility that if realized would contradict a number of other statements made by ANet developers, their fundamental design goals and philosophy, and their established cash-shop history with GW1, among other things).
So lets hear it: what solid evidence exists to suggest not just that it's some vague possibility - but that it will in all likelihood happen.
I have none, but nor do you or anyone else jumping to ArenaNet's defense have any evidence to the contrary, aside from anecdotal evidence.
Never once have I said that ArenaNet will absolutely, one hundrend percent, sell top tier gear and the most difficult to acquire skills and other such items in the cash shop. Merely, that I expect them to.
If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't.
I don't get why you guys are taking such offense to the fact that other posters have reservations about the cash shop.
Reservations are fine - but most people are not merely expressing "reservations" or mild skepticism - they're flat out stating "This game is obviously going to be 100% P2W how stupid and greedy!" etc. etc.
Also, we DO have evidence beyond mere "anecdotal" evidence. If a man has had plenty of opportunity to cheat on his wife, but refuses to do so, that's positive evidence that speaks in favor of his character and serves to support the notion that he will not cheat on his wife in the future should another opportunity to do so arrise. It's hardly a guarentee, sure, but it's positive evidence beyond a mere anectdote. Likewise, ANet has had ample opportunity to turn GW1 into a P2W game and they have utterly and completely failed to do so. This past history is hardly irrelevant or merely "anectodal" and speaks in favor of GW2 following in the same footstop sans legitimate contradictory evidence.
Add to this the numerous statements made by devs elsewhere as well as the fact that some "P2W" style cash shop that sells weapons/armor/enchantments/etc. that provide players with an advantage in combat goes completely against their entire design philosophy and goals, and there's good reason to believe that GW2 will not at all be "P2W."
Also, something else to consider: even if they sold "top end gear" with "max stats" it wouldn't even really matter given the way the game is structured. Gear with max stats, as in GW1, is absurdly easy to obtain. This isn't WoW where you have to grind dungeons/raids over and over and over again for hours upon hours upon hours to get a quality set of gear. So even if "top-end" gear is sold, it will give you maybe a couple of hours of a head start compared to someone who did not purchase said gear.
Also, "rare/difficult to obtain items" is rather vague. I would imagine that the item that lets you transfer stats from one piece of gear to another will be rather hard to obtain in-game but readily available in the cash shop, so technically "a rare and difficult to obtain item" WILL likely be available for purchase; but such an item is entirely cosmetic and not even remotely "P2W" or necessary in any way. So merely selling "rare/hard to obtain items" is not itself an a prori negative.
Will there be micro-transactions or things to buy which don't come with the box, like character slots?
Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.
There are two distinct subjects here, in orange and in yellow.
Nowhere does it say they are equivalent. It says whatever is in the store (which could be anything or nothing) won't give you an advantage over what is in the game.
Can we stop talking about this in the other thread?
you can bury your head in the sand over this as much as you like, but as i said before, any item that can be obtained in gameplay, no matter how rare the loot drop etc, can be obtained in the cash shop, how much for i don't know, but, while buying these items will not give an advantage over anybody who obtained the item through gameplay, it will give an advantage against anybody who hasnt. it really is as simple as that.
If I told you that all men were humans, then does that mean that all humans are men?
Because that is the exact same logic you are using here.
The statement says that all items in the cash shop are obtainable by spending time in the game. This does NOT mean that all items in the game obtainable by spending time, are also in the cash shop.
Comments
Cali if I'm correct he' never liked the game in the first place, due to things being worded differently, it gave him ammunition, how ever his bullets are just blanks...
So with that being said personally I'd just let him feel as though he correct only to be stand corrected at release, I mean personally it means the same, cristmas clothes...halloween costumes, easter costumes, extra caharacter slots, and so on.
Just people have to spin something, they must find a fault in this game, and it was well I guess...wording lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
People needs their daily panic dose. I guess GW2 is the pick of the day. Stay tuned for tommorrow's new "omg the sky is falling topic"
Because they've said, over and over, that max stat gear will be very easy to obtain in game, even for the very casual. It's rare skins that offer no stat advantage where the "prestige" will lie.
What Phry is saying is that anything in the game can also be bought in the shop. As in literally anything and everything.
It certainly could be, we don't know what will be in the shop.
However, that is not what the FAQ says. The FAQ only says that whatever is in the shop (which could be anything, everything, or nothing) will not offer an advantage.
What is wrong is him suggesting that the part in red is what the FAQ says.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Oh NO!! You just opened another door. Now someone is going to claim the game is too easy if even casual players can get max stat gears LOL. "How can I show I am awesome if max stats gears can be obtained even by casual !!!"
Waiting..
Never did I state that I expect every single item in the game to be sold in the cash shop. Rather, I stated that the vague wording of the FAQ does not disqualify that scenario from occuring.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell every item in the cash shop? No.
Do I expect ArenaNet to sell top end gear and extremely rare and/or difficult to obtain items and skills in the cash shop? Yes.
That's bad news. My interest in guild wars 2 is decreasing every time i hear something new about it...
And if they will sell the gear with stats in cash shop.. it's a no no.
Coming from GW1, I completely disagree with that. They have never done that in GW1 and I don't see why they would start that now.
They have never sell stats gear in GW1. Only fluffy gears.
I'll repeat myself really quickly here. Arenanet has said repeatedly that stat-wise, top-end gear should be easy for even casuals to get. So selling statted gear in the cash shop would be rather pointless.
Oh for the love of god......
And I respect your opinion on that.
But I personally have serious reservations about it. The wording is just too vague for me. I've seen cash shop creep ruin a lot of MMOs, so yeah I'm hesitant to believe that ArenaNet won't push things too far. Paritcularly since the wording leaves the door wide open for them to do so without having to go back on their word.
Like i said before, stop looking at that 1 quote, and look at the whole picture
There are a number of solid reasons to believe that it will not in fact happen. The only thing even remotely in favor is the new wording of the faq - wording that only potential leaves room for it to possibly happen (a possibility that if realized would contradict a number of other statements made by ANet developers, their fundamental design goals and philosophy, and their established cash-shop history with GW1, among other things).
So lets hear it: what solid evidence exists to suggest that there will be "P2W" items? Not just a statement makes allows for this to be potentially be the case - but that it will in all likelihood happen.
I think the point is, the change to the FAQ allows them the freedom to put anything in the store, provided it is not exclusive to the store.
This just reminds of Turbine and LOTRO, with their now infamous "we will not sell armor or weapons in the store" and then one year later, there are armor and weapons in the store. People change, companies change, games change.
I don't know whether ArenaNet and NCSoft will put such things in the store, but it is pretty clear that they aren't prepared to rule it out from happening.
I have none, but nor do you or anyone else jumping to ArenaNet's defense have any evidence to the contrary, aside from anecdotal evidence.
Never once have I said that ArenaNet will absolutely, one hundrend percent, sell top tier gear and the most difficult to acquire skills and other such items in the cash shop. Merely, that I expect them to.
If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't.
I don't get why you guys are taking such offense to the fact that other posters have reservations about the cash shop.
Anet might put armor or weapons in the store, but then it will probably be skins exclusive to the cash shop.
I'm sure they won't sell armor/weapons that are rare and available in-game, in the cash shop aswell
/facepalm
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
You can't blame people for looking at that one quote and start to wonder. The info went from only cosmetic items in the cash shop to this. Why bother to change it to something different if nothing about the cash shop is changing.
The new quote suggests top end items will be sold now where as before not at all. You can still obtain those same items in game, but that is the same as a lot of cash shop games and a lot of people don't like that.
The reason we are taking such offense is not because of people having reservations about the cash shop.
[Mod Edit]
Won't matter if they DID decide to put armor with stats in the cash shop, top stats will be easy for even casuals to attain. Though it would be rather pointless to do so.
I appreciate people are skeptical. People have been burned by MMOs in the past. The default position for any MMO player probably should be to distrust everything that comes out of a developer's mouth. But can we all just please agree to be wary without all the doom and gloom?
Yes the wording is a little ambiguous when it comes to the potential for Pay to Skip, but it is not ambiguous at all when it comes to Pay to Win. It is NOT Pay to Win.
Let's recap.
First, this is ArenaNet, who have managed a cash shop for their first game for years now without Pay to Win. Yes, unlock packs are a little bit of Pay to Skip, but they only showed up in the game after all the expansions are out so new players could quickly join PVP. They're also not as bad as you think they are once you know the details. GW2 also won't have them because everything is automatically unlocked for Structured PVP.
Secondly, GW2 is not a gear based vertical progression game when it comes to PVE either. Max stat gear is easy to come by, and when you do a dungeon or a grind, it's for a vanity skin. Even if they did sell gear with stats it's kind of hard to see how it matters at all. Gear in GW2 has a minimum level requirement (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Reaver for instance). So even if they did sell level 80 gear in the shop, the only "Skip" advantage it would give you would be the time for you to upgrade your level 79 and below gear with the easily obtainable generic level 80 gear.
Third, seriously, WITH THIS SHITSTORM WHY WOULD THEY EVEN DO IT? The game has Transmutation Stones in it. These allow you to combine the stats of one piece of gear with the look of another. See where I'm going with this? If the game is all about getting the look you want, then they could just sell level 1 gear in the shop along with a transmutation stone, and you could copy the look onto your easily obtainable generic level 80 gear.
I know this is an internet forum and all, but can we please all just calm down and wait to see what the store looks like before passing judgement?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
More's the pity. I'd personally plunk down money to buy comprehension skills for some of the posters here
Reservations are fine - but most people are not merely expressing "reservations" or mild skepticism - they're flat out stating "This game is obviously going to be 100% P2W how stupid and greedy!" etc. etc.
Also, we DO have evidence beyond mere "anecdotal" evidence. If a man has had plenty of opportunity to cheat on his wife, but refuses to do so, that's positive evidence that speaks in favor of his character and serves to support the notion that he will not cheat on his wife in the future should another opportunity to do so arrise. It's hardly a guarentee, sure, but it's positive evidence beyond a mere anectdote. Likewise, ANet has had ample opportunity to turn GW1 into a P2W game and they have utterly and completely failed to do so. This past history is hardly irrelevant or merely "anectodal" and speaks in favor of GW2 following in the same footstop sans legitimate contradictory evidence.
Add to this the numerous statements made by devs elsewhere as well as the fact that some "P2W" style cash shop that sells weapons/armor/enchantments/etc. that provide players with an advantage in combat goes completely against their entire design philosophy and goals, and there's good reason to believe that GW2 will not at all be "P2W."
Also, something else to consider: even if they sold "top end gear" with "max stats" it wouldn't even really matter given the way the game is structured. Gear with max stats, as in GW1, is absurdly easy to obtain. This isn't WoW where you have to grind dungeons/raids over and over and over again for hours upon hours upon hours to get a quality set of gear. So even if "top-end" gear is sold, it will give you maybe a couple of hours of a head start compared to someone who did not purchase said gear.
Also, "rare/difficult to obtain items" is rather vague. I would imagine that the item that lets you transfer stats from one piece of gear to another will be rather hard to obtain in-game but readily available in the cash shop, so technically "a rare and difficult to obtain item" WILL likely be available for purchase; but such an item is entirely cosmetic and not even remotely "P2W" or necessary in any way. So merely selling "rare/hard to obtain items" is not itself an a prori negative.
If I told you that all men were humans, then does that mean that all humans are men?
Because that is the exact same logic you are using here.
The statement says that all items in the cash shop are obtainable by spending time in the game. This does NOT mean that all items in the game obtainable by spending time, are also in the cash shop.
A -> B
does not mean that
B -> A
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?