I been this way with all games not just MMO games. Skyrim was fun but lacked good weapons and armor. Reckoning is fun but is kind of generic and strategy games have become a joke. I just cannot get into any games any more.
Maybe I have out grown gaming which I do not think so as I still want to play games, just none of the ones I have or have looked at to buy. I am 30, started MMO gaming with EQ1, have never found another game that was as fun as EQ expect maybe Vanguard but we all know how Vanguard end up.
I am thinking that now thanks to the "Social Media" sites and games on those sites, us "real" gamers are again being forced into a small niche market like before WoW made gaming main stream. The gaming Market seems to be going more casual, more browser, more theme park easy mode gmes.
I got into gaming because I love problem solving and gaming is nothing but problem solving. I work in the IT field for the same reason. So for now it is back to my collection of Total war games that I have played to death while I wait for another good MMO or another indepth grand Strategy game like Total War.
PS These are my opinions, I do not claim to speak for all gamers, I speak for myself.
Also I love the Total War games because they are Turn based with real time battles. I want more games like that for my Strategy collection. As far as MMOs, give me a game like Everquest with updated graphics and gameplay.
This is the great thing about forums, there is the occasional post that makes you realise that there are more like-minded people out there than you think.
It isn't you and you are a true gamer. MMOs today are no longer made for gamers, hell games today are not. We no longer can be the gamers we used to be playing the games that everyone else thought was too hard. Special breed and we no longer have games being made for that level of gamer.
Every type of game sucks and is all fluff and to easy. Just a borefest without a challenge. We do need some old school games to come back and weed out the wannabe's.
I think that those games left the pc and live on the consoles now. Loads of good oldfashioned twitchbased games with difficult settings on those. I just don't like them anymore
I am sick of doing that...I mean I have killed like 1,000,000,000,000 wolves/skeletons accross more worlds than I can even remember. When will someone create something completely new? Something different? Something completely outside the box we all have become accustomed to? I mean to be honest, I don't have ANY idea what I'm even saying because what I am asking for does not exist yet.... (as far as I know).
....
I hear you. Recycling the same old garbage is what the AAA titles do anymore... Even when they're telling you they're adding a whole new element...
So if you're expecting a "Big Game Company" to do something unique or out-of-the box... Forget it. Suits don't create because they're too afraid of failure. So they end up failing because they don't grasp the nettle of opportunity and creativity, or as the poet Aaron Hill once wrote:
“Tender-handed stroke a nettle,
And it stings you, for your pains:
Grasp it like a man of mettle,
And it soft as silk remains.”
A more modern version of this is "go big or go home." You can't win a championship by playing it safe and hoping the other team 'loses it' for you....
You ever try a sandbox MMO like Eve Online?
Also, Archeage looks like it may be far enough out of the box to be interesting when it's released.... The only question with Archeage is will it have NA/Euro servers and an English translation. Because, right now, there are some questions about whether or not they will ever release a NA/Euro version... And while people, like myself, hope so... There's no guarantee.
You're not becoming immersed in MMO worlds anymore because the MMO's that have been designed don't have worlds. They have a series of quest areas that you run around in, like a postman with a longsword, back and fore, kill X, collect Y, return to Z. Sparkly sound effect. Level up! Proceed to next phase. Exploration is a Mario-esque hunt for a secret object. Dungeons are closed off instanced areas, like bonus levels in a Tomb Raider game.
MMO's aren't what they used to be, things have moved so far away from the original design of EverQuest that they can barely be classed under the same genre. It's sad really, original EverQuest was incredible and gave me hope for the future, when a game like that could have realistic graphics and sound effects, more massive worlds to explore, darker, more creepier dungeons. But instead we got MMO's for Kids.
When i played UO*when it first came out* i was 13 years old. Played MMO games ever since* i am 25 know*
Last MMO game i got into is DAOC and AO, those were the last two for me. After that i also just can`t find one at all.
Exactly what i've decided to do. I see the indie devs about and i think "ok, just what qualifies them to even try making an MMO? What's on their CV?". The answer is usually not alot and certainly nothing to put me in the shade. When i see the models, the textures, the animations, the GUI, the piss poor coding, i always ask "why didn't they do xyz?"
Answer is they can't. 9/10 they seem to be people who learnt C++ at college and that's it. You see this when all patches and updates are coding ones, rather than anything tangible. Coders usually have a very narrowly focussed skillset, you rarely get a creative programmer, you cannot have that mindset to be a good one, it's like being an accountant.
So, from now i'll be learning a new script language and working with a new engine. I have spent 2 years not doing alot and trying half-assed games, in that time i could have created something half-decent, so i'm going to put it to the test
Two things...
First, you don't seem to have a clue what an accountant really does. It's not sitting there all day adding up numbers or doing audit checks. It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge, insight and creativity to get to optimal solutions that are workable, practical and can be excuted by your client base. It's not a good career field for those who lack creativity.
Second, programmers have the same issues... It takes talent and creativity to be a good programmer. You go back at look at all those small-shop games in the 1980s... They were written by teams of two or three... And they were some of the most creative games ever written.
Star Control II was an incredible game. Civilization was an incredible game. Populus... The list goes on and on and on of very creative game written by small groups of coders...
Then it became 'big business' and the MBAs got involved. The coders can still write. I've played some really good indie games the past few years as 'big game companies' have gotten sterile, derrivitive and have started to churn thier products with minor changes or pad their games with obvious filler to hide how short they really are...
Honestly, it's the MBA-Executives and their stupid "Copy the Big Dog" mentality that crushes innovation and is destroying the AAA studio...
I agree with all of you that the genre of MMO's have been dumbed down so much to please the masses that people who loved the original games like UO or EQ1 etc. will probably not like any of the current games out there. I don't want to detract from my original point, however what I think games lack now is a world where exploration is a huge part of the game. Exploration involves wanting to see new things, encounter new things, and being afraid of what might be around the corner. I have not been afraid of dying in a game since the beginning of EQ1 and Ultima Online. In EQ1, you left all your stuff on your body and you had 1 week to either get it back or lose it forever...death in a dungeon became a whole new quest (Get my body back). Similarly in UO, when you died, your stuff remained on your corpse and anyone could come by and take your stuff (heck, even the monster who killed you took something and you had to kill him to get it back). Again, a whole new quest was just "created - GET MY CORPSE BACK." What I'm trying to say is something is missing with all these games that has taken the excitement out of playing.
I don't want this to become a "death penalty" discussion, as I am not even sure that is what made the old games "fun", but something sure is missing, and the fact that when i die in pretty much ANY other current game doesn't even make me flinch, much less get me to call my friends on the phone and form a "Get Alasti's corpse group going."
Some of the differences in UO though is there there were skill lvl's and lvl of skill of the player that made certain areas easier or harder. No moster was ever out of your reach in that game if you worked hard enough or came at the situation from the right angle. I still remember taking down this huge mother dragon (one you couldn't tame) with one other bud and it came down to running up to it on a mount, hitting it once and then running so you didn't get meleed or hit by two fire balls. With games like WoW and the like, you simply can't explore other areas period. In UO it was more like you shouldn't go, not that you couldn't. I agree, I want exploration back as well.
Also, playing mmo's made me feel more like a gamer than console games did. Not sure why though. However, since I've stopped playing WoW a year or two ago, I've picked up other non-mmo's and still haven't felt like a gamer as much. Maybe it was the time commitment to a single game...
I think i feel kind of the same way the OP does, i am just tired of MMOs right now. Recently i played the beta of that fancy action MMO which will be released soon in the west.
Well, it was kind of ok. I am a visual guy, i "need" the visuals to immerse myself into the game. That is why i wont play games like wurm or minecraft, which, ironicly, have the features i like and desire.
However, back to that action MMO. It looks nice and all, but i had this strange dejavue feeling, which i had a thousand times before. You pop in the world, speak to the NPC who is standing 5 meters before you, he tells you stuff and you begin killing some mobs, which pose no threat at all. Yaaaaawwwnnn...
Sure there are people who do this the very first time, and they need to learn how everything functions. But for me? Just plain boring.
Then there is this other feeling i had a thousand times before. The feeling, that nothing i do has a point (,before reaching the holy "endgame") Learning how to actually play well has no point, because there are no treats. Learning tradeskills has no point, reading questtexts has no point, because i dont have a choice anyway, other then to not accept the quest. And so on, and so on...
Most MMOs feature this concept, that he player is the hero. You kill 20 deamon rats of hell, and the NPC says, you ended this plague and saved the world. Well, hey wait! There are still hundres of them behind us and i can actually see others kill them too! Some might say, that this is a mmo, and has to be done that way, but i believe i want a little more realistic writing. For me i would be more immersive, if the NPC said "Hey, welcome on the battlefield, see the others killing the deamon rats? There are too many, we need you to do the same and help the others."
Heroism is not determined by the number of enemys you can kill; you can be a hero amongst others; you dont need to save the world to feel like a hero.
Sorry for this little OT adventure into why i think most mmos these days suck.
I am 39 years old and have been playing MMO's since the days of Ultima Online, Everquest 1, and Asheron's Call (3 of my top 5 all time favorite games...MMO or otherwise). Anyway...
I just cant seem to "get into" mmo's any more and I hate it! I mean I really hate that I can't immerse myself into MMO's like I once did. I have played almost all of the "popular" mmo's: EQ1, EQ2, UO, Vanguard, DAoC, WoW, etc. I have tried playing the new games (Rift, etc.) as well as re-living the old ones (AC, Everquest, Vanguard, etc.) and I just don't have that incessant "pull" to keep playing. Every game is the exact same in that there is somewhat of a grind doing traditional quests or killing creatures for experience. I am sick of doing that...I mean I have killed like 1,000,000,000,000 wolves/skeletons accross more worlds than I can even remember. When will someone create something completely new? Something different? Something completely outside the box we all have become accustomed to? I mean to be honest, I don't have ANY idea what I'm even saying because what I am asking for does not exist yet.... (as far as I know).
Anyway....I am aware this is a rant, and am not sure even why I am writing this, but I do know that it saddens me that there isn't something out there that will pull me in like the games of old used to when they were new and I wasn't burnt out on killing ogres and zombies.
I wish you bud. I think it's just that we've played RPG's to death, so until someone adds some substantial new ways to play RPG's, we'll have the "been there, done that" feeling.
It's not just MMORPG's I'm not having fun with anymore, it's SRPG's too. It's all the same, either spam a button to attack, or press heys on a hotbar. Invest points into your choice of 3 trees to specialize. Collect and do quests. How long have we been doing this same exact thing, almost day in and day out?
Bioware evolved the genre when they added fully voiced dialogue + a cimematic experience, while giving people choices in how the story plays out. Since then, what significant feature has been introduced in the RPG genre?
So that's just it, whether I go back and play DAoC, or I play some new MMORPG or RPG, I have that "been there, done that 1mill times" feeling.
I'm trying to set my sights on sandbox/UO/EvE type of mmorgps. Sure excited by GW2, but more for some frolics, that sort of deep immersion much more the former.
However, there's cool things out there besides mmos, just seems mmorpgs suffer from 'Normal Problems Games Have'^n
At the time when Asheron's call 2 shut down end of 2005, i comepletedly had with mmo's i was at same point as you where right now, totally burned out.
I first tried WoW be couse my gaming friends ask me to join them but i did not like WoW at all.
Then FFXI man that game was even more terible then WoW.
My next attemp was Age of Conan when it launched i quit after 2 months and most of time i was subbed in those two months i hated it and could not bring myself to play it AWEFUL mmo, i was still burned out also it seems.
Then in feb 2009 i played beta and started Darkfall i have played it for 2 years had for 1.8 years fun but last few months i played it i was bored becouse empty server(EU-1) now i am sinds then burned out again and still am:(
But i play sinds mid 90's solo RPGs between mmo,s or sometimes during my mmo times still love them my last is Skyrim.
I hope one day i can find my mmo i enjoy again but for now i only visit websites like this.
Im bit older then you so maybe age have something to do with it i dunno hehe.
Ive btw not played many mmo's over all these years im rather selective.
I think solo games for me will keep my interest for now.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Well I'm glad to know its not just me. I also am having the same "feeling" about the majority of RPG's in general. Maybe I'm just burnt out on games. I sit at my computer each night now either: perusing my old single player games, hoping one will magically "grab me" and inspire me to reinstall and play, or searching the internet for inspiration to go back to an old MMO, or even look to this site for inspiration for whats upcoming....
Well the older games did not generally say "chosen one save the world from all of these rats."
You were more dropped in (or outside of!) town and whether or not you decided to talk to an NPC who did not have an ! over their head to find out they had a rat problem you got exp for killing rats.
If you did talk to the npc you got slightly more exp and a rusty item.
There was no "You are great." If anything you were a lowbie annoyance who does the little tasks around.
----
One game that really gave you the feeling of you are a lowbie worthless pile was everquest 2 on the evil side at launch.
You got to town and you got talked down to by the buerocrat who bedgrudgingly gave you a tiny one room shack that wouldnt pass an inspection.
Well I'm glad to know its not just me. I also am having the same "feeling" about the majority of RPG's in general. Maybe I'm just burnt out on games. I sit at my computer each night now either: perusing my old single player games, hoping one will magically "grab me" and inspire me to reinstall and play, or searching the internet for inspiration to go back to an old MMO, or even look to this site for inspiration for whats upcoming....
Nothing grabs me....
That makes me feel better, at least I am not the only one that sits at my computer desk looking through the old games folder trying to find a game to "Grab me".
Actually that would make for an interesting start -- you get kicked out of town for having a character class. The guards are now KOS -- find your way.
I mean being a thief of some races in say EQ1 or a necromancer erudite meant starting outside the city albeit in an enclave.
Having not even an enclave -- just well if you go 30 miles in that direction you will find your first real questor..... once you get outside the direct influence of the kingdom....
I am 39 years old and have been playing MMO's since the days of Ultima Online, Everquest 1, and Asheron's Call (3 of my top 5 all time favorite games...MMO or otherwise). Anyway...
I just cant seem to "get into" mmo's any more and I hate it! I mean I really hate that I can't immerse myself into MMO's like I once did. I have played almost all of the "popular" mmo's: EQ1, EQ2, UO, Vanguard, DAoC, WoW, etc. I have tried playing the new games (Rift, etc.) as well as re-living the old ones (AC, Everquest, Vanguard, etc.) and I just don't have that incessant "pull" to keep playing. Every game is the exact same in that there is somewhat of a grind doing traditional quests or killing creatures for experience. I am sick of doing that...I mean I have killed like 1,000,000,000,000 wolves/skeletons accross more worlds than I can even remember. When will someone create something completely new? Something different? Something completely outside the box we all have become accustomed to? I mean to be honest, I don't have ANY idea what I'm even saying because what I am asking for does not exist yet.... (as far as I know).
Anyway....I am aware this is a rant, and am not sure even why I am writing this, but I do know that it saddens me that there isn't something out there that will pull me in like the games of old used to when they were new and I wasn't burnt out on killing ogres and zombies.
Same here: 41 years old "gamer" like you and played almost all the ones you did and now back to wow waiting on GW2/TSW/TERA......will probably try them all and see which one I like the most.....you like myself are looking for something maybe we cant describe but will know it when we play it...
keep up the search, that game will come along soon enough
The next step for RPG's will hopefully be the decision on developers' parts to nix the current quest system that is used by 99% of RPGs. Developers can then resume what was started decades ago.... Creating worlds.
RPG's at their core are fueled by the depth of possibilities and choices. D&D was a near limitless tool for the imagination. You could concoct whatever scenario or world you wanted as long as you had the drive and creativity to do it. RPGs' defining difference over other styles of game is the potential variety and depth of options available while keeping the experience personal. Other genre's might give you plenty of options and depth such as strategy games but what makes RPG's unique is that the game is played from a 'ground level' perspective that you identify with on a personal level. Hence, playing a role.
Over time developers have by and large slowly de emphazised this unique aspect of RPG's. Instead they have been putting more and more emphasis on the accumulation of numbers along a pre-defined path. It's now all about vertical, or arbitrary, progression which only matters in a very limited point of view; ie. expressing physical dominance over virtual entities. It's the equivalent of strictly using electricity to only produce light, ignoring the fact that it can do a trillion other more beneficial and amazing things. Not that light isn't interesting, but I digress....
Basically, I think it really does just come down to money. The people that facilitate the process of a game becoming a product have been digging their mitts deeper and deeper into the development of games over time. We're left with a lot of games' development being influenced more by executives, who let greed and conformity dominate their decisions, than by the game's actual creators.
Part of the reason for this is that executives have gotten very adept at coaxing developers into doing what they want them to by way of passive-aggressive fear induction (exaggerations pertaining to money, time, quality, appeal etc.). They basically get developers into a situation where they have no choice but to submit in the face of overwhelming stress and limitations. It's all a ploy to maximize profits (at the expense of game enjoyment). I assure you the big companies can afford to properly fund excellent and original games consistently if the people at the top weren't so adamant on defining themselves by their accumulation of excess wealth. Actually this striving for excess is causing many more severe problems in the world at large than video games, but that's another discussion entirely.
The next step for RPG's will hopefully be the decision on developers' parts to nix the current quest system that is used by 99% of RPGs. Developers can then resume what was started decades ago.... Creating worlds.
RPG's at their core are fueled by the depth of possibilities and choices. D&D was a near limitless tool for the imagination. You could concoct whatever scenario or world you wanted as long as you had the drive and creativity to do it. RPGs' defining difference over other styles of game is the potential variety and depth of options available while keeping the experience personal. Other genre's might give you plenty of options and depth such as strategy games but what makes RPG's unique is that the game is played from a 'ground level' perspective that you identify with on a personal level. Hence, playing a role.
Over time developers have by and large slowly de emphazised this unique aspect of RPG's. Instead they have been putting more and more emphasis on the accumulation of numbers along a pre-defined path. It's now all about vertical, or arbitrary, progression which only matters in a very limited point of view; ie. expressing physical dominance over virtual entities. It's the equivalent of strictly using electricity to only produce light, ignoring the fact that it can do a trillion other more beneficial and amazing things. Not that light isn't interesting, but I digress....
Basically, I think it really does just come down to money. The people that facilitate the process of a game becoming a product have been digging their mitts deeper and deeper into the development of games over time. We're left with a lot of games' development being influenced more by executives, who let greed and conformity dominate their decisions, than by the game's actual creators.
Part of the reason for this is that executives have gotten very adept at coaxing developers into doing what they want them to by way of passive-aggressive fear induction (exaggerations pertaining to money, time, quality, appeal etc.). They basically get developers into a situation where they have no choice but to submit in the face of overwhelming stress and limitations. It's all a ploy to maximize profits (at the expense of game enjoyment). I assure you the big publishers can easily afford to properly fund excellent and original games consistently if the people at the top weren't so adamant on defining themselves by their accumulation of excess wealth. Actually this striving for excess is causing many more severe problems in the world at large than video games, but that's another discussion entirely.
I think that everybody will reach that point eventually. It's mostly because you've experienced all the standards and now know what you want from a game. In my opinion, there's really only two options left when you reach this point in gaming: pursue it or give up. You can either attempt to learn one of the various programming languages or just give up and hope that somebody will eventually make your desired game. There's really nothing wrong with waiting and learning is easier said than done, but it's worth a shot. You've played the games and have developed a passion for the genre. Isn't it about time to try your hand at creating something?
Anyway, dramatic nonsense aside, it's perfectly normal to get burned out. Something new will come around and spark your interest eventually, but it's probably a good idea to try something else until then.
Exactly what i've decided to do. I see the indie devs about and i think "ok, just what qualifies them to even try making an MMO? What's on their CV?". The answer is usually not alot and certainly nothing to put me in the shade. When i see the models, the textures, the animations, the GUI, the piss poor coding, i always ask "why didn't they do xyz?"
Answer is they can't. 9/10 they seem to be people who learnt C++ at college and that's it. You see this when all patches and updates are coding ones, rather than anything tangible. Coders usually have a very narrowly focussed skillset, you rarely get a creative programmer, you cannot have that mindset to be a good one, it's like being an accountant.
So, from now i'll be learning a new script language and working with a new engine. I have spent 2 years not doing alot and trying half-assed games, in that time i could have created something half-decent, so i'm going to put it to the test
This is very offensive. Great coders are creative. Just because some people are dumb code monkeys doesn't make the rest of us non creative.
I have to agree here. Pigeon-holing people is a very un-creative way to think.
It brings to mind a little story the head of the Chemistry Dept told, back when I was in college. At a faculty meeting, one of the history professors made a comment about scientists, callng them narrow-minded and knowledgable only about their field. Dr. Razniak replied to the professor:
"I just finshed reading a treatise on the Civil War. When's the last time you picked up a book having to do with any scientific study?"
The history professor had nothing to say about that.
Anyone who knew Dr. Razniak, at all, would know better than to say something like that. Many of the science fiction writers have been, and are, working physicists. Just about every writer you've ever read was or is a professional in some other career.
As far as "patches and updates" - games these days are made up of millions of lines of code. Most people can't code because they don't have the patience and ability to break what they want to do into little steps. You take a program, particularly a large one, and throw it into an environment with a bunch of others you didn't write (someone else's computer, for example) and guess what, unexpected things can happen.
Personally, I make enough typing mistakes in a forum post to understand that someone writing code might make some that they miss before their work is released. I go back and check what I type, so I almost always catch errors, but on occasion something still gets through. There is no way I'm going to call a programmer poor at what he does because something needs to be patched after it's released.
It's insane to think that everything is always going to work perfectly in a game. Even if the coding is perfect, there are too many variables to take into account. Geniuses can't do it, never mind the average game developer.
I'm all for a person with passion learning to code and develop the kind of game he wants to play, but there's a reason very few people do it: it takes dedication, a willingness to learn what you need to learn, put what you think you want down on paper, and turn that into a working game. It takes thousands of hours of focused effort, and that alone takes more discipline than most people will ever think about actually committing to, much less accomplishing. It takes partnership with people who can do the same, because it simply takes too long for one person to make an MMOG sized game. We already have a serious and problematical lag between the start of a game's developement and the technology that is available when it is released. Something that took 3-5 years for a team to develop will take 6-20 years for one person, even a very gifted and talented person.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
I really don't feel like MMOs have been dumbed down. In fact I think the problem with MMOs is that they haven't changed enough. They've been giving us the same thing since Ultima Online. Yes games have become more accessible, but the core gameplay is pretty much the same.
Whether this is the fault of developers, or restriction of the current technology remains to be seen. I really hope one day we get a game that turns the MMO genre on its head, but I don't expect that anytime soon.
While it's entirely possible that you have lost your taste for gaming (I would never say "outgrown"), I tend to agree with others that you didn't change so much as the games have changed. Many of us who hang out on this website feel the same way. In fact a lot of us hang out here because we are waiting for something fun to come along.
SWTOR is the perfect illustration of the problem. Many of us have been complaining about these games being lifeless clones for a long time now, and SWTOR has become a perfect example of what is wrong with the genre in my opinion. Bioware shamelessly created a game that was supposed to play a lot like the "touchstone" (their words) WoW, but falls very short of that goal.
Now I say this from the perspective of someone who is sick and tired of the same old themepark games. Some people may find SWTOR new and fresh for them and have a blast there. I say good for them. For many of us who have been around a while, this type of game has become beyond stale, and we want something new and more complex. There are some interesting things coming now, as we all know, but we will have to wait and see how it pans out. GW2 is looking great, TSW looks very interesting, ArchAge is the one I am most interested in trying because I prefer more sandbox in my games. There are some cool indy projects coming too.
Take a break. If you like shooters, go get a beta key for Tribes: Ascend. It's a friggin' blast and serves as a nice distraction while we wait for something new here. I can't join a current MMO at this point, because I know I will be playing one of the new games coming soon.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Comments
I been this way with all games not just MMO games. Skyrim was fun but lacked good weapons and armor. Reckoning is fun but is kind of generic and strategy games have become a joke. I just cannot get into any games any more.
Maybe I have out grown gaming which I do not think so as I still want to play games, just none of the ones I have or have looked at to buy. I am 30, started MMO gaming with EQ1, have never found another game that was as fun as EQ expect maybe Vanguard but we all know how Vanguard end up.
I am thinking that now thanks to the "Social Media" sites and games on those sites, us "real" gamers are again being forced into a small niche market like before WoW made gaming main stream. The gaming Market seems to be going more casual, more browser, more theme park easy mode gmes.
I got into gaming because I love problem solving and gaming is nothing but problem solving. I work in the IT field for the same reason. So for now it is back to my collection of Total war games that I have played to death while I wait for another good MMO or another indepth grand Strategy game like Total War.
PS These are my opinions, I do not claim to speak for all gamers, I speak for myself.
Also I love the Total War games because they are Turn based with real time battles. I want more games like that for my Strategy collection. As far as MMOs, give me a game like Everquest with updated graphics and gameplay.
Sooner or Later
This is the great thing about forums, there is the occasional post that makes you realise that there are more like-minded people out there than you think.
It isn't you and you are a true gamer. MMOs today are no longer made for gamers, hell games today are not. We no longer can be the gamers we used to be playing the games that everyone else thought was too hard. Special breed and we no longer have games being made for that level of gamer.
Every type of game sucks and is all fluff and to easy. Just a borefest without a challenge. We do need some old school games to come back and weed out the wannabe's.
I think that those games left the pc and live on the consoles now. Loads of good oldfashioned twitchbased games with difficult settings on those. I just don't like them anymore
I hear you. Recycling the same old garbage is what the AAA titles do anymore... Even when they're telling you they're adding a whole new element...
So if you're expecting a "Big Game Company" to do something unique or out-of-the box... Forget it. Suits don't create because they're too afraid of failure. So they end up failing because they don't grasp the nettle of opportunity and creativity, or as the poet Aaron Hill once wrote:
“Tender-handed stroke a nettle,
And it stings you, for your pains:
Grasp it like a man of mettle,
And it soft as silk remains.”
A more modern version of this is "go big or go home." You can't win a championship by playing it safe and hoping the other team 'loses it' for you....
You ever try a sandbox MMO like Eve Online?
Also, Archeage looks like it may be far enough out of the box to be interesting when it's released.... The only question with Archeage is will it have NA/Euro servers and an English translation. Because, right now, there are some questions about whether or not they will ever release a NA/Euro version... And while people, like myself, hope so... There's no guarantee.
When i played UO*when it first came out* i was 13 years old. Played MMO games ever since* i am 25 know*
Last MMO game i got into is DAOC and AO, those were the last two for me. After that i also just can`t find one at all.
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Which FF Character Are You?
Two things...
First, you don't seem to have a clue what an accountant really does. It's not sitting there all day adding up numbers or doing audit checks. It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge, insight and creativity to get to optimal solutions that are workable, practical and can be excuted by your client base. It's not a good career field for those who lack creativity.
Second, programmers have the same issues... It takes talent and creativity to be a good programmer. You go back at look at all those small-shop games in the 1980s... They were written by teams of two or three... And they were some of the most creative games ever written.
Star Control II was an incredible game. Civilization was an incredible game. Populus... The list goes on and on and on of very creative game written by small groups of coders...
Then it became 'big business' and the MBAs got involved. The coders can still write. I've played some really good indie games the past few years as 'big game companies' have gotten sterile, derrivitive and have started to churn thier products with minor changes or pad their games with obvious filler to hide how short they really are...
Honestly, it's the MBA-Executives and their stupid "Copy the Big Dog" mentality that crushes innovation and is destroying the AAA studio...
I agree with all of you that the genre of MMO's have been dumbed down so much to please the masses that people who loved the original games like UO or EQ1 etc. will probably not like any of the current games out there. I don't want to detract from my original point, however what I think games lack now is a world where exploration is a huge part of the game. Exploration involves wanting to see new things, encounter new things, and being afraid of what might be around the corner. I have not been afraid of dying in a game since the beginning of EQ1 and Ultima Online. In EQ1, you left all your stuff on your body and you had 1 week to either get it back or lose it forever...death in a dungeon became a whole new quest (Get my body back). Similarly in UO, when you died, your stuff remained on your corpse and anyone could come by and take your stuff (heck, even the monster who killed you took something and you had to kill him to get it back). Again, a whole new quest was just "created - GET MY CORPSE BACK." What I'm trying to say is something is missing with all these games that has taken the excitement out of playing.
I don't want this to become a "death penalty" discussion, as I am not even sure that is what made the old games "fun", but something sure is missing, and the fact that when i die in pretty much ANY other current game doesn't even make me flinch, much less get me to call my friends on the phone and form a "Get Alasti's corpse group going."
Some of the differences in UO though is there there were skill lvl's and lvl of skill of the player that made certain areas easier or harder. No moster was ever out of your reach in that game if you worked hard enough or came at the situation from the right angle. I still remember taking down this huge mother dragon (one you couldn't tame) with one other bud and it came down to running up to it on a mount, hitting it once and then running so you didn't get meleed or hit by two fire balls. With games like WoW and the like, you simply can't explore other areas period. In UO it was more like you shouldn't go, not that you couldn't. I agree, I want exploration back as well.
Also, playing mmo's made me feel more like a gamer than console games did. Not sure why though. However, since I've stopped playing WoW a year or two ago, I've picked up other non-mmo's and still haven't felt like a gamer as much. Maybe it was the time commitment to a single game...
I think i feel kind of the same way the OP does, i am just tired of MMOs right now. Recently i played the beta of that fancy action MMO which will be released soon in the west.
Well, it was kind of ok. I am a visual guy, i "need" the visuals to immerse myself into the game. That is why i wont play games like wurm or minecraft, which, ironicly, have the features i like and desire.
However, back to that action MMO. It looks nice and all, but i had this strange dejavue feeling, which i had a thousand times before. You pop in the world, speak to the NPC who is standing 5 meters before you, he tells you stuff and you begin killing some mobs, which pose no threat at all. Yaaaaawwwnnn...
Sure there are people who do this the very first time, and they need to learn how everything functions. But for me? Just plain boring.
Then there is this other feeling i had a thousand times before. The feeling, that nothing i do has a point (,before reaching the holy "endgame") Learning how to actually play well has no point, because there are no treats. Learning tradeskills has no point, reading questtexts has no point, because i dont have a choice anyway, other then to not accept the quest. And so on, and so on...
Most MMOs feature this concept, that he player is the hero. You kill 20 deamon rats of hell, and the NPC says, you ended this plague and saved the world. Well, hey wait! There are still hundres of them behind us and i can actually see others kill them too! Some might say, that this is a mmo, and has to be done that way, but i believe i want a little more realistic writing. For me i would be more immersive, if the NPC said "Hey, welcome on the battlefield, see the others killing the deamon rats? There are too many, we need you to do the same and help the others."
Heroism is not determined by the number of enemys you can kill; you can be a hero amongst others; you dont need to save the world to feel like a hero.
Sorry for this little OT adventure into why i think most mmos these days suck.
I wish you bud. I think it's just that we've played RPG's to death, so until someone adds some substantial new ways to play RPG's, we'll have the "been there, done that" feeling.
It's not just MMORPG's I'm not having fun with anymore, it's SRPG's too. It's all the same, either spam a button to attack, or press heys on a hotbar. Invest points into your choice of 3 trees to specialize. Collect and do quests. How long have we been doing this same exact thing, almost day in and day out?
Bioware evolved the genre when they added fully voiced dialogue + a cimematic experience, while giving people choices in how the story plays out. Since then, what significant feature has been introduced in the RPG genre?
So that's just it, whether I go back and play DAoC, or I play some new MMORPG or RPG, I have that "been there, done that 1mill times" feeling.
I hate it too.
I'm trying to set my sights on sandbox/UO/EvE type of mmorgps. Sure excited by GW2, but more for some frolics, that sort of deep immersion much more the former.
However, there's cool things out there besides mmos, just seems mmorpgs suffer from 'Normal Problems Games Have'^n
Eg (watch the vid):
http://unepicgame.com/en/game.html
& quality field:
http://www.igf.com/audience.php
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
At the time when Asheron's call 2 shut down end of 2005, i comepletedly had with mmo's i was at same point as you where right now, totally burned out.
I first tried WoW be couse my gaming friends ask me to join them but i did not like WoW at all.
Then FFXI man that game was even more terible then WoW.
My next attemp was Age of Conan when it launched i quit after 2 months and most of time i was subbed in those two months i hated it and could not bring myself to play it AWEFUL mmo, i was still burned out also it seems.
Then in feb 2009 i played beta and started Darkfall i have played it for 2 years had for 1.8 years fun but last few months i played it i was bored becouse empty server(EU-1) now i am sinds then burned out again and still am:(
But i play sinds mid 90's solo RPGs between mmo,s or sometimes during my mmo times still love them my last is Skyrim.
I hope one day i can find my mmo i enjoy again but for now i only visit websites like this.
Im bit older then you so maybe age have something to do with it i dunno hehe.
Ive btw not played many mmo's over all these years im rather selective.
I think solo games for me will keep my interest for now.
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PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Well I'm glad to know its not just me. I also am having the same "feeling" about the majority of RPG's in general. Maybe I'm just burnt out on games. I sit at my computer each night now either: perusing my old single player games, hoping one will magically "grab me" and inspire me to reinstall and play, or searching the internet for inspiration to go back to an old MMO, or even look to this site for inspiration for whats upcoming....
Nothing grabs me....
I like Ultima IV therefore im not a gamer,im a gamergod.
gamer doesnt mean anything nowadays.winning doesnt mean anything nowadays,losing doesnt mean anything nowadays,itsnot gaming its something else.
Let's internet
Well the older games did not generally say "chosen one save the world from all of these rats."
You were more dropped in (or outside of!) town and whether or not you decided to talk to an NPC who did not have an ! over their head to find out they had a rat problem you got exp for killing rats.
If you did talk to the npc you got slightly more exp and a rusty item.
There was no "You are great." If anything you were a lowbie annoyance who does the little tasks around.
----
One game that really gave you the feeling of you are a lowbie worthless pile was everquest 2 on the evil side at launch.
You got to town and you got talked down to by the buerocrat who bedgrudgingly gave you a tiny one room shack that wouldnt pass an inspection.
That makes me feel better, at least I am not the only one that sits at my computer desk looking through the old games folder trying to find a game to "Grab me".
Sooner or Later
Actually that would make for an interesting start -- you get kicked out of town for having a character class. The guards are now KOS -- find your way.
I mean being a thief of some races in say EQ1 or a necromancer erudite meant starting outside the city albeit in an enclave.
Having not even an enclave -- just well if you go 30 miles in that direction you will find your first real questor..... once you get outside the direct influence of the kingdom....
The next step for RPG's will hopefully be the decision on developers' parts to nix the current quest system that is used by 99% of RPGs. Developers can then resume what was started decades ago.... Creating worlds.
RPG's at their core are fueled by the depth of possibilities and choices. D&D was a near limitless tool for the imagination. You could concoct whatever scenario or world you wanted as long as you had the drive and creativity to do it. RPGs' defining difference over other styles of game is the potential variety and depth of options available while keeping the experience personal. Other genre's might give you plenty of options and depth such as strategy games but what makes RPG's unique is that the game is played from a 'ground level' perspective that you identify with on a personal level. Hence, playing a role.
Over time developers have by and large slowly de emphazised this unique aspect of RPG's. Instead they have been putting more and more emphasis on the accumulation of numbers along a pre-defined path. It's now all about vertical, or arbitrary, progression which only matters in a very limited point of view; ie. expressing physical dominance over virtual entities. It's the equivalent of strictly using electricity to only produce light, ignoring the fact that it can do a trillion other more beneficial and amazing things. Not that light isn't interesting, but I digress....
Basically, I think it really does just come down to money. The people that facilitate the process of a game becoming a product have been digging their mitts deeper and deeper into the development of games over time. We're left with a lot of games' development being influenced more by executives, who let greed and conformity dominate their decisions, than by the game's actual creators.
Part of the reason for this is that executives have gotten very adept at coaxing developers into doing what they want them to by way of passive-aggressive fear induction (exaggerations pertaining to money, time, quality, appeal etc.). They basically get developers into a situation where they have no choice but to submit in the face of overwhelming stress and limitations. It's all a ploy to maximize profits (at the expense of game enjoyment). I assure you the big companies can afford to properly fund excellent and original games consistently if the people at the top weren't so adamant on defining themselves by their accumulation of excess wealth. Actually this striving for excess is causing many more severe problems in the world at large than video games, but that's another discussion entirely.
And why?
Because DnD.
I have to agree here. Pigeon-holing people is a very un-creative way to think.
It brings to mind a little story the head of the Chemistry Dept told, back when I was in college. At a faculty meeting, one of the history professors made a comment about scientists, callng them narrow-minded and knowledgable only about their field. Dr. Razniak replied to the professor:
"I just finshed reading a treatise on the Civil War. When's the last time you picked up a book having to do with any scientific study?"
The history professor had nothing to say about that.
Anyone who knew Dr. Razniak, at all, would know better than to say something like that. Many of the science fiction writers have been, and are, working physicists. Just about every writer you've ever read was or is a professional in some other career.
As far as "patches and updates" - games these days are made up of millions of lines of code. Most people can't code because they don't have the patience and ability to break what they want to do into little steps. You take a program, particularly a large one, and throw it into an environment with a bunch of others you didn't write (someone else's computer, for example) and guess what, unexpected things can happen.
Personally, I make enough typing mistakes in a forum post to understand that someone writing code might make some that they miss before their work is released. I go back and check what I type, so I almost always catch errors, but on occasion something still gets through. There is no way I'm going to call a programmer poor at what he does because something needs to be patched after it's released.
It's insane to think that everything is always going to work perfectly in a game. Even if the coding is perfect, there are too many variables to take into account. Geniuses can't do it, never mind the average game developer.
I'm all for a person with passion learning to code and develop the kind of game he wants to play, but there's a reason very few people do it: it takes dedication, a willingness to learn what you need to learn, put what you think you want down on paper, and turn that into a working game. It takes thousands of hours of focused effort, and that alone takes more discipline than most people will ever think about actually committing to, much less accomplishing. It takes partnership with people who can do the same, because it simply takes too long for one person to make an MMOG sized game. We already have a serious and problematical lag between the start of a game's developement and the technology that is available when it is released. Something that took 3-5 years for a team to develop will take 6-20 years for one person, even a very gifted and talented person.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Whether this is the fault of developers, or restriction of the current technology remains to be seen. I really hope one day we get a game that turns the MMO genre on its head, but I don't expect that anytime soon.
While it's entirely possible that you have lost your taste for gaming (I would never say "outgrown"), I tend to agree with others that you didn't change so much as the games have changed. Many of us who hang out on this website feel the same way. In fact a lot of us hang out here because we are waiting for something fun to come along.
SWTOR is the perfect illustration of the problem. Many of us have been complaining about these games being lifeless clones for a long time now, and SWTOR has become a perfect example of what is wrong with the genre in my opinion. Bioware shamelessly created a game that was supposed to play a lot like the "touchstone" (their words) WoW, but falls very short of that goal.
Now I say this from the perspective of someone who is sick and tired of the same old themepark games. Some people may find SWTOR new and fresh for them and have a blast there. I say good for them. For many of us who have been around a while, this type of game has become beyond stale, and we want something new and more complex. There are some interesting things coming now, as we all know, but we will have to wait and see how it pans out. GW2 is looking great, TSW looks very interesting, ArchAge is the one I am most interested in trying because I prefer more sandbox in my games. There are some cool indy projects coming too.
Take a break. If you like shooters, go get a beta key for Tribes: Ascend. It's a friggin' blast and serves as a nice distraction while we wait for something new here. I can't join a current MMO at this point, because I know I will be playing one of the new games coming soon.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.