I really don't feel like MMOs have been dumbed down. In fact I think the problem with MMOs is that they haven't changed enough. They've been giving us the same thing since Ultima Online. Yes games have become more accessible, but the core gameplay is pretty much the same.
Whether this is the fault of developers, or restriction of the current technology remains to be seen. I really hope one day we get a game that turns the MMO genre on its head, but I don't expect that anytime soon.
And what exactly would constitute turning the genre on its head?
What i'm saying is, compared to what RPG's began as and can be, they are generally very limited in scope and breadth today. I'm certainly not saying video game RPG's can replicate pen and paper ones, but we can at least strive for that level of openness and creativity.
Yes, D&D certainly had combat. But it also had a multitude of other facets to it that mattered equally or more. Combat was not the thing in which everything revolved. It was just one aspect of the whole.
Even so, the possibilities for combat in D&D made it vastly more creative and exciting than pressing 1,2,3,4 on a keyboard while fighting back another yawn. The story, the possibilities, the interactions with other players, the ingenuity you can employ, the importance of your actions and the focus on group enjoyment all make up what an RPG has the ability to be.
What a lot of RPG players have been seeing for quite awhile now is the near industry-wide neglect of almost all non-combat, non-accumulation aspects of the RPG. Yes, there are games that place importance on the story and setting but not on an open-ended story and place in which you can contribute to. RPG's at their best offer as many choices to players as possible while still retaining a system and structure.
Surely these newer mmo's cannot be seen as being anywhere NEAR the extent to which RPG's can go. They're actively less open and 'rpg' than the original mmo's after all.
Of course, actually making a game these days costs more than a fortune even when it's completely combat-centric, much less filled to the brim with meaningful choices so this could all just be wishful thinking in reality.
I know how you feel. I'm going back to other hobbies.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, "I didn't leave the mmorpg genre, the genre left me".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
What i'm saying is, compared to what RPG's began as and can be, they are generally very limited in scope and breadth today. I'm certainly not saying video game RPG's can replicate pen and paper ones, but we can at least strive for that level of openness and creativity.
Yes, D&D certainly had combat. But it also had a multitude of other facets to it that mattered equally or more. Combat was not the thing in which everything revolved. It was just one aspect of the whole.
Even so, the possibilities for combat in D&D made it vastly more creative and exciting than pressing 1,2,3,4 on a keyboard while fighting back another yawn. The story, the possibilities, the interactions with other players, the ingenuity you can employ, the importance of your actions and the focus on group enjoyment all make up what an RPG has the ability to be.
What a lot of RPG players have been seeing for quite awhile now is the near industry-wide neglect of almost all non-combat, non-accumulation aspects of the RPG. Yes, there are games that place importance on the story and setting but not on an open-ended story and place in which you can contribute to. RPG's at their best offer as many choices to players as possible while still retaining a system and structure.
Surely these newer mmo's cannot be seen as being anywhere NEAR the extent to which RPG's can go. They're actively less open and 'rpg' than the original mmo's after all.
Of course, actually making a game these days costs more than a fortune even when it's completely combat-centric, much less filled to the brim with meaningful choices so this could all just be wishful thinking in reality.
Someone will take advantage of the minecraft factor and apply it to an MMO one of these days, not sure who or when but it will happen. Just gotta be patient I guess... Even though the a "MMO Minecraft" isn't the final solution, it would be leaps and bounds better than anything else out there. If someone were to take the minecraft formula and build on it, making it more in depth with updated graphics and all that jazz, including MMO format , I have a feeling that would make a home for many stray sandboxers.
Yeah yeah, smart arse.. MMORPG.com forums don't normally work well with Firefox auto-spell check and folks make mistakes. Meh, I'll have my PhD done in May and I often don't bother to check my posts for proper APA style or typos for that matter. I'd suggest using your amazing editng skills for a more pending matter.
Last MMO I really liked was Vanguard (started playing them with UO also). I took a good break after that, due to moving/changing jobs, then I jumped back in with Rift and I played 3 months (shortest time ever in a game I paid for), then I did SWTOR, because I had friends playing it, but I was very skeptical, played it a month (paid for 2, didn't cancel in time, and was unsure...but couldn't get myself to log in)...
So a break didn't help me, but I don't think its me, a lot of people are tired of the same old stuff, and pretty much about everything released in the past 5 years is pretty shallow all around imo...They don't have quality crafting, harvesting, exploring...It seems like everything is super railed, small, obsolete/super easy crafting, shallow harvesting, super limited starter areas/races/customization....Then you get hit with the only endgame it seems anyone knows anymore, which is daily items.
I am looking forward to TSW/GW2 in the near future...I do have some hope though, it seems the development cycle has decided that adding some sandbox aspects are in demand...I am hoping for a good hybrid to show up out of the future titles.
TSW, GW2, WoD, EQ Next, Copernicus, ArcheAge, PAthfinder, and I am sure some others...I hope someone delivers a quality game in the near future.
So you'll get your PhD in good manners and patience? Well done then. Edit: I expect a PhD know how to use basic logic and philosophy terms without a speller.
I expect a pedant to have written "I expect a PhD to know" when correcting someone.</blockquot
What's wrong with playing more casually? Why do you need to feel like you have to keep on playing? Taking breaks and doing real life stuff are hopefully an option.
Many people think you can't ever relive the sensation like that first MMO you used to play. Maybe they're right. Maybe you're still a gamer, just not a noob gamer.
What's wrong with playing more casually? Why do you need to feel like you have to keep on playing? Taking breaks and doing real life stuff are hopefully an option.
Many people think you can't ever relive the sensation like that first MMO you used to play. Maybe they're right. Maybe you're still a gamer, just not a noob gamer.
So every night my wife goes to be around 9-10pm (she needs more sleep than I do). I play SOMETHING from then until midnight or 1am. Lately I sit there until 10:30, perusing my old game disks, or staring at this site, hoping something draws me to it, and then I watch a movie on Netflix until around Midnight and I go to bed.
A lot of people say video gaming is detrimental to "real life" endeavors. Although I think this CAN be a problem, it is not one for me. I just want to be able to spend my 3 hours before I go to bed playing something I long to play....
Sounds like many an adult household skyrim and hard mode gw2 missions with a bit of eve is filling the gap for me until a genuine next gen mmorg comes along that will offer a new home for my avatar
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
One of the things - possibly the main thing - that taking a break does for me is get me out of the "habit" and "compulsive" modes I may have developed when playing a game over a long period of time. Those feelings have nothing to do with fun; they are just my brain telling me I should follow the pattern I've set for myself, at best. At worst, they are a mask for whatever I'm avoiding in my life.
I think sitting in front of a computer longing to play a game is a sign of that (following a pattern that has become a compulsion). At least, it's something to think about. Listen to what it is you really want at this time that's getting in the way of enjoying your experiences in games.
Likely, it has nothing to do with the "quality" of MMOGs today; likely it has nothing to do with gaming at all. For example, maybe you are, deep down, wishing you could spend more of your leisure time with your wife. Certainly a mixed-time work schedule isn't conducive to a lot of face time, and you have to set aside clear times when you can make sure you have that with your spouse. (Just using this kind of thig as an example, I don't know what your situation is, of course.)
Patterns are a natural part of our lives. So is "running on automatic". Since what we do in our day-to-day existence is largely the same every day, it's good that we get comfort and even enjoymant from our personal patterns. However, for most humans, patterns aren't everything life is about, either. It is part of us to want to step outside our patterns sometimes.
So, disatisfaction can be a sign of at least 2 things that have nothing to do with what you are disatisfied with. It can be a sign of there being something else in your life that you want to do that is being neglected, or it can be part of the natural destire to step outside of what you normally do for awhile.
Make that 3 things, one people have talked about - that the activity (gaming in this case) really is something you are done with as it exists today. The routine no longer fulfills that part of you that caused you to want to game in the first place. Maybe it is that modern MMOGs haven't brought anything new you are interested in. Your job now, in any case, is to stop and listen to your deep down voice and understand what it is you really want.
People talk about the MMOGs in the last few years being "all the same". If you stop to think about that, you know it's not really true - for example, there are no other MMOGs that look like World of Warcraft. If you think Star Wars: The old Republic is "another WoW clone", then you atren't paying attentiion to the game, because SWTOR clearly looks different and plays different in many ways. People want to blame the medium, when it's really them that has stopped connecting with what they are playing.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Comments
And what exactly would constitute turning the genre on its head?
What i'm saying is, compared to what RPG's began as and can be, they are generally very limited in scope and breadth today. I'm certainly not saying video game RPG's can replicate pen and paper ones, but we can at least strive for that level of openness and creativity.
Yes, D&D certainly had combat. But it also had a multitude of other facets to it that mattered equally or more. Combat was not the thing in which everything revolved. It was just one aspect of the whole.
Even so, the possibilities for combat in D&D made it vastly more creative and exciting than pressing 1,2,3,4 on a keyboard while fighting back another yawn. The story, the possibilities, the interactions with other players, the ingenuity you can employ, the importance of your actions and the focus on group enjoyment all make up what an RPG has the ability to be.
What a lot of RPG players have been seeing for quite awhile now is the near industry-wide neglect of almost all non-combat, non-accumulation aspects of the RPG. Yes, there are games that place importance on the story and setting but not on an open-ended story and place in which you can contribute to. RPG's at their best offer as many choices to players as possible while still retaining a system and structure.
Surely these newer mmo's cannot be seen as being anywhere NEAR the extent to which RPG's can go. They're actively less open and 'rpg' than the original mmo's after all.
Of course, actually making a game these days costs more than a fortune even when it's completely combat-centric, much less filled to the brim with meaningful choices so this could all just be wishful thinking in reality.
I know how you feel. I'm going back to other hobbies.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, "I didn't leave the mmorpg genre, the genre left me".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Someone will take advantage of the minecraft factor and apply it to an MMO one of these days, not sure who or when but it will happen. Just gotta be patient I guess... Even though the a "MMO Minecraft" isn't the final solution, it would be leaps and bounds better than anything else out there. If someone were to take the minecraft formula and build on it, making it more in depth with updated graphics and all that jazz, including MMO format , I have a feeling that would make a home for many stray sandboxers.
Yeah yeah, smart arse.. MMORPG.com forums don't normally work well with Firefox auto-spell check and folks make mistakes. Meh, I'll have my PhD done in May and I often don't bother to check my posts for proper APA style or typos for that matter. I'd suggest using your amazing editng skills for a more pending matter.
Last MMO I really liked was Vanguard (started playing them with UO also). I took a good break after that, due to moving/changing jobs, then I jumped back in with Rift and I played 3 months (shortest time ever in a game I paid for), then I did SWTOR, because I had friends playing it, but I was very skeptical, played it a month (paid for 2, didn't cancel in time, and was unsure...but couldn't get myself to log in)...
So a break didn't help me, but I don't think its me, a lot of people are tired of the same old stuff, and pretty much about everything released in the past 5 years is pretty shallow all around imo...They don't have quality crafting, harvesting, exploring...It seems like everything is super railed, small, obsolete/super easy crafting, shallow harvesting, super limited starter areas/races/customization....Then you get hit with the only endgame it seems anyone knows anymore, which is daily items.
I am looking forward to TSW/GW2 in the near future...I do have some hope though, it seems the development cycle has decided that adding some sandbox aspects are in demand...I am hoping for a good hybrid to show up out of the future titles.
TSW, GW2, WoD, EQ Next, Copernicus, ArcheAge, PAthfinder, and I am sure some others...I hope someone delivers a quality game in the near future.
I expect a pedant to have written "I expect a PhD to know" when correcting someone.</blockquotI fixed the spelling error in the Topic (although EVERYONE knew what I meant) =P
What's wrong with playing more casually? Why do you need to feel like you have to keep on playing? Taking breaks and doing real life stuff are hopefully an option.
Many people think you can't ever relive the sensation like that first MMO you used to play. Maybe they're right. Maybe you're still a gamer, just not a noob gamer.
Yep, i'm at that spot too.
I've been gaming for 30 years now, but currently it's impressive if a game can keep me playing for longer then 1 night.
SWG was my last long lasting game too ... since then i've been dwelling.
I'm lost ...
Then here's to all of us who don't feel we have a home (game-wise) right now, Cheers!
*raises a glass*
So every night my wife goes to be around 9-10pm (she needs more sleep than I do). I play SOMETHING from then until midnight or 1am. Lately I sit there until 10:30, perusing my old game disks, or staring at this site, hoping something draws me to it, and then I watch a movie on Netflix until around Midnight and I go to bed.
A lot of people say video gaming is detrimental to "real life" endeavors. Although I think this CAN be a problem, it is not one for me. I just want to be able to spend my 3 hours before I go to bed playing something I long to play....
This just hasn't happened for a long long time.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
One of the things - possibly the main thing - that taking a break does for me is get me out of the "habit" and "compulsive" modes I may have developed when playing a game over a long period of time. Those feelings have nothing to do with fun; they are just my brain telling me I should follow the pattern I've set for myself, at best. At worst, they are a mask for whatever I'm avoiding in my life.
I think sitting in front of a computer longing to play a game is a sign of that (following a pattern that has become a compulsion). At least, it's something to think about. Listen to what it is you really want at this time that's getting in the way of enjoying your experiences in games.
Likely, it has nothing to do with the "quality" of MMOGs today; likely it has nothing to do with gaming at all. For example, maybe you are, deep down, wishing you could spend more of your leisure time with your wife. Certainly a mixed-time work schedule isn't conducive to a lot of face time, and you have to set aside clear times when you can make sure you have that with your spouse. (Just using this kind of thig as an example, I don't know what your situation is, of course.)
Patterns are a natural part of our lives. So is "running on automatic". Since what we do in our day-to-day existence is largely the same every day, it's good that we get comfort and even enjoymant from our personal patterns. However, for most humans, patterns aren't everything life is about, either. It is part of us to want to step outside our patterns sometimes.
So, disatisfaction can be a sign of at least 2 things that have nothing to do with what you are disatisfied with. It can be a sign of there being something else in your life that you want to do that is being neglected, or it can be part of the natural destire to step outside of what you normally do for awhile.
Make that 3 things, one people have talked about - that the activity (gaming in this case) really is something you are done with as it exists today. The routine no longer fulfills that part of you that caused you to want to game in the first place. Maybe it is that modern MMOGs haven't brought anything new you are interested in. Your job now, in any case, is to stop and listen to your deep down voice and understand what it is you really want.
People talk about the MMOGs in the last few years being "all the same". If you stop to think about that, you know it's not really true - for example, there are no other MMOGs that look like World of Warcraft. If you think Star Wars: The old Republic is "another WoW clone", then you atren't paying attentiion to the game, because SWTOR clearly looks different and plays different in many ways. People want to blame the medium, when it's really them that has stopped connecting with what they are playing.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall