It's quite funny looking at peoples dates that they joined this site and answer in a vets thread. Maybe they didn't find this site until late on in life.
From my point of view, MMO's are dead in the old sense. People don't want old style games where they have to think, group and use teamwork. They just want to be lead through a game to the level cap as fast as possible. I'll wait with this game and see what happens over the first 3 months then decide whether to buy it or not.
I been on the forum for a while now. Seen many post and threads from Vets, that seem to be grieving the death of the MMO genre in their eyes.
But I am curious, are any of you grieving, tired MMO vets, hyped up for Guild Wars 2?
If so, what areas of GW2 are you hyped about most?
You believe GW2 will become your new main MMO?
share with us your thoughts and feelings about the upcoming GW2 which seem to be drawing in lots of attention. Maybe this will be the MMO which finally pleases you. What you believe?
I am hyped about GW2 and I never even liked GW
I am more of a sandbox guy, but I believe that GW2 will be the perfect casual game for everyone (casual, hardcore, oldschool or newbies)
I don't think I am going to be disappointed because GW2 is not trying to be the WoW killer, but something different.
In the end it might not be everyone cup of tea but surely GW2 won't be another WoW clone, which is a start.
the game will see few million copys, BUT after few months the game will start to fail hard ... arenanet wont bother much since by the time they will have massive profit.
why will it fail?
cuz only casuals will continue to play it ... for all real gamers this game just wont be appealing
it has the TERA syndrome;
- way to easy leveling
-lack of end content
-lack of pve
- offers only pvp and some nice graphics (same as tera + tera has bit better graphics)
- the games focus will be wvwvw (guess what, same as tera) .. wich is nothing new tbh
overall this game is just waaay to lite, its a casual game wich focuses on pvp... i see no reason to play this game apart from loging every few weeks and kill some kids, thats all
The only reason why it will be better as tera is the b2p system, if it would be p2p it would fail like tera will after few months
-------
.......................goes back waiting for Archage
Originally posted by Tezcat It's quite funny looking at peoples dates that they joined this site and answer in a vets thread. Maybe they didn't find this site until late on in life.
I missed the memo about having to be a vet of this forum in order to be a vet of the actual genre
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I been on the forum for a while now. Seen many post and threads from Vets, that seem to be grieving the death of the MMO genre in their eyes.
But I am curious, are any of you grieving, tired MMO vets, hyped up for Guild Wars 2?
If so, what areas of GW2 are you hyped about most?
You believe GW2 will become your new main MMO?
share with us your thoughts and feelings about the upcoming GW2 which seem to be drawing in lots of attention. Maybe this will be the MMO which finally pleases you. What you believe?
I am excited about the PvP. As a DAOC vet I think this is the most exciting aspect.
I think PvE players will get bored, much like the original game, as PvE'ers seem to need the gear grind carrot to stay interested. Yes I know you can grind for appearance or titles, but the same could be said about GW1 and most PvE groups in that dropped off a few months after each expansion launch.
I've been on quite a long MMO hiatus since I quit Aion almost a year ago now.
When I did play GW1 at launch, I very much enjoyed it. Although at that time I'd admit my experience with MMOs was severely limited.
GW2 however seems to be attempting to break the mould. I've seen developers passionate about their product, but GW2 has taken it to a new level. I can really see they want to make this product great.
Currently, after seeing WvW systems explained and screenshots, I'm VERY hyped for this game.
My only concern is that which most people have. Post launch update plans. With a solid endgame in place however, I'm quite confident in the first 3 months of GW2 being very entertaining. Its what they do afterwards really. That said...a better base for a game to launch off has not existed to this date, in terms of content. Rift came close, but GW2 takes it to another level.
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
Nope. While I am looking forward to it, I still maintain my skepticism.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
It's quite funny looking at peoples dates that they joined this site and answer in a vets thread. Maybe they didn't find this site until late on in life.
I missed the memo about having to be a vet of this forum in order to be a vet of the actual genre
There is not such a memo..............but it kinda obvious.
Vet doesn't mean you are an expert, just that you play those games longer than most
Unless you meant that a newby in this forum might be a vet as well, in which case you are right, but I find it difficult to think tht a vet of this genre doesn't have an old account with this site which is the oldest MMO site on the net.
I've certainly complained more than praised lately, as I haven't seen any new approaches in a long time. 2004-2011 was, in my opinion, a period when this genre stopped evolving in any meaningful way as companies continually fell over themselves trying to create their own version of WoW in an attempt to grab a chunk of it's success rather than evolve the genre as a whole. The 'past' me, at various points between the late 90's and early 2000s, occasionally thought 'Wow, can you imagine what this genre could evolve into over the next decade? It'll be amazing to watch all the creative ideas unfold as imaginative developers gain access to new technology and expand this genre'. Instead the whole thing stuttered to a halt for about seven years as nearly everyone with any funding chased the same exact pie as WoW, strangely with almost the exact same game - usually just less smooth.
I personally enjoyed it when different games were different games, rather than a new clone of WoW - complete with it's limitations and restrictions despite advances in technology and the fact that the people that wanted WoW already had WoW.
So, while I am looking forward to playing GW2 and seeing how all of their approaches fit together, I'm more 'hyped' about the idea that finally someone with funding and apparent ability is making an MMO that goes beyond another linear task hub grind and approaching the entire experience with some creative solutions to decade old problems. Plus, so far it just looks like it could be a lot of fun (I may prefer semi-hardcore high risk sandbox fantasy experiences, but I love games and can appreciate a fun experience for what it is when one pops up).
While it may not end up being my dream game, I'm very proud of them for not just turning in sloppily copied homework and I hope it marks the end of big budget WoW clones. That would be great for the next 10 years of development.
As for hyped, that would really apply to Pathfinder Online & ArcheAge for me. Those two are really sounding great so far.
Lets be clear here Guild Wars 2 isn't truly a "MMO" In a sense to what a MMO is but it will be(i know what i just said make's little sense) There is no death of MMOs, It's the start of bad developer's with bad ideas to make quick cash, not the classic developer's (EQ,DAoC,AC,UO,AC2,,EvE FFS...etc) with bright smart ideas.
Anyway's YES I am hyped for Guild Wars 2, It's going to be sick and i cannot wait any longer, but i want it to be amazing not rushed either.
Playing: Everthing Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW. I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by DannyGlover
Originally posted by Tezcat It's quite funny looking at peoples dates that they joined this site and answer in a vets thread. Maybe they didn't find this site until late on in life.
I missed the memo about having to be a vet of this forum in order to be a vet of the actual genre There is not such a memo..............but it kinda obvious. Vet doesn't mean you are an expert, just that you play those games longer than most Unless you meant that a newby in this forum might be a vet as well, in which case you are right, but I find it difficult to think tht a vet of this genre doesn't have an old account with this site which is the oldest MMO site on the net. The forum that I was a member of for almost a dozen years, closed shop last year. I'm testing the waters here.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Lets be clear here Guild Wars 2 isn't truly a "MMO" In a sense to what a MMO is but it will be(i know what i just said make's little sense) There is no death of MMOs, It's the start of bad developer's with bad ideas to make quick cash, not the classic developer's (EQ,DAoC,AC,UO,AC2,,EvE FFS...etc) with bright smart ideas.
Anyway's YES I am hyped for Guild Wars 2, It's going to be sick and i cannot wait any longer, but i want it to be amazing not rushed either.
2000 people in one zone makes me think this is an MMO more so than any other "mmo" of the past 5 years...
Read up on the WvWvW info and tell me thats not an MMO
Playing mmos for 10+ years, video games for 25 years.
I've never been so hyped by a mmo combat mechanics than with GW2, but with perspective, I'm a bit worried about the low number of infight skills for most classes Due to being a very long time player, I'm expecting every new MMO to step things further, so for combat I'm expecting complex, very deep and varied mechanics. Aside the Elementalist with its 20 skills, I'm not sure GW2 combat strategy choices will be that varied.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Lets be clear here Guild Wars 2 isn't truly a "MMO" In a sense to what a MMO is but it will be(i know what i just said make's little sense) There is no death of MMOs, It's the start of bad developer's with bad ideas to make quick cash, not the classic developer's (EQ,DAoC,AC,UO,AC2,,EvE FFS...etc) with bright smart ideas.
Anyway's YES I am hyped for Guild Wars 2, It's going to be sick and i cannot wait any longer, but i want it to be amazing not rushed either.
2000 people in one zone makes me think this is an MMO more so than any other "mmo" of the past 5 years...
Read up on the WvWvW info and tell me thats not an MMO
Not trying to start a fight; But clearly you didn't read the entire post. I said It isn't truly a MMO ina sense to what a MMO is, but it will be. I even stated what i just said made little sense because it's contredicting myself. I know everything about Guild Wars 2, Well everything anyone else will if they do any research i have also played Guild Wars 1 since closed beta, and been following GW2 since i saw a leaked post of a project about Guild Wars 2.
Playing: Everthing Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW. I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
I been on the forum for a while now. Seen many post and threads from Vets, that seem to be grieving the death of the MMO genre in their eyes.
But I am curious, are any of you grieving, tired MMO vets, hyped up for Guild Wars 2?
If so, what areas of GW2 are you hyped about most?
You believe GW2 will become your new main MMO?
share with us your thoughts and feelings about the upcoming GW2 which seem to be drawing in lots of attention. Maybe this will be the MMO which finally pleases you. What you believe?
Completely hyped and excited:
1. Casual pick up play & Have fun now - I am Working man and father. I have no time for grind,raid,quest gameplay anymore
2. Hardcore twitch combat - If i have to play another tab ,1,2,3 MMO - I simply fall to sleep. This is why i couldnt even play Rift
3. Best PVP - seriously , the game combines best from DAOC, WAR and Team Fortress. Its amazing.
4. B2P - I can play when I want and how much I want. No more compulsion to play because of the sub!
So there you go...
/Signed
Especially the Combat, i cant stand anymore the boring and pointless combat of classic mmos. (although iam not really confident about the GW2 combat system, but it could at least be a step in the right direction)
And of course the WvW. It may be the second DAoC with a few improvements. On the other Hand WAR was also meant to be the next DAoC, and everyone knows what happend.
As i always said the last years. Time will tell. Just wait and see.
About beeing hyped.. i really dont know, if i am able to be really hyped. The last time i played more than a few month was WoW, and that was a let-down. After that i was hyped for Darkfall, another let-down.
At least i will try it out, and the hope dies last.
What defines an "MMO Vet" anyway? I started with mmo's with wow (EU vanilla launch) if you exclude my free ride on runescape before..
And I am looking forward to GW2 because a large portion of the things I complained about and thought was weird/dumb in WoW (and some of it's clones) have been remedied in GW2.
Never need to fight over a mob(or collectables or whatever) again while "questing" and wait for it's respawn ( i remember standing in 20+ minutes queues to kill mobs in wow vanilla release)
Mr gnoll super leader doesn't just stand around walking in a 2 square meter box waiting to be killed and respawns 30 seconds later when you do so.
No 2 month ardous gear grind to be able experience pvp without getting 1 shot.
It's quite funny looking at peoples dates that they joined this site and answer in a vets thread. Maybe they didn't find this site until late on in life.
I missed the memo about having to be a vet of this forum in order to be a vet of the actual genre
There is not such a memo..............but it kinda obvious.
Vet doesn't mean you are an expert, just that you play those games longer than most
Unless you meant that a newby in this forum might be a vet as well, in which case you are right, but I find it difficult to think tht a vet of this genre doesn't have an old account with this site which is the oldest MMO site on the net.
The forum that I was a member of for almost a dozen years, closed shop last year. I'm testing the waters here.
I've certainly complained more than praised lately, as I haven't seen any new approaches in a long time. 2004-2011 was, in my opinion, a period when this genre stopped evolving in any meaningful way as companies continually fell over themselves trying to create their own version of WoW in an attempt to grab a chunk of it's success rather than evolve the genre as a whole. The 'past' me, at various points between the late 90's and early 2000s, occasionally thought 'Wow, can you imagine what this genre could evolve into over the next decade? It'll be amazing to watch all the creative ideas unfold as imaginative developers gain access to new technology and expand this genre'. Instead the whole thing stuttered to a halt for about seven years as nearly everyone with any funding chased the same exact pie as WoW, strangely with almost the exact same game - usually just less smooth.
I personally enjoyed it when different games were different games, rather than a new clone of WoW - complete with it's limitations and restrictions despite advances in technology and the fact that the people that wanted WoW already had WoW.
So, while I am looking forward to playing GW2 and seeing how all of their approaches fit together, I'm more 'hyped' about the idea that finally someone with funding and apparent ability is making an MMO that goes beyond another linear task hub grind and approaching the entire experience with some creative solutions to decade old problems. Plus, so far it just looks like it could be a lot of fun (I may prefer semi-hardcore high risk sandbox fantasy experiences, but I love games and can appreciate a fun experience for what it is when one pops up).
While it may not end up being my dream game, I'm very proud of them for not just turning in sloppily copied homework and I hope it marks the end of big budget WoW clones. That would be great for the next 10 years of development.
As for hyped, that would really apply to Pathfinder Online & ArcheAge for me. Those two are really sounding great so far.
what this dude said its very true its been really bad for us MMO players that we been getting scammed in theses WoW clones even stwor is a WoW clone as much as people dont wanna admit it that bioware game will fail soon already seeing people QQing about it due to WoWi cloneing
What defines an "MMO Vet" anyway? I started with mmo's with wow (EU vanilla launch) if you exclude my free ride on runescape before..
And I am looking forward to GW2 because a large portion of the things I complained about and thought was weird/dumb in WoW (and some of it's clones) have been remedied in GW2.
Never need to fight over a mob(or collectables or whatever) again while "questing" and wait for it's respawn ( i remember standing in 20+ minutes queues to kill mobs in wow vanilla release)
Mr gnoll super leader doesn't just stand around walking in a 2 square meter box waiting to be killed and respawns 30 seconds later when you do so.
No 2 month ardous gear grind to be able experience pvp without getting 1 shot.
and many more.
in my eyes your a vet your same as me Runescape was my first MMO when i was 13 then WoW came out and i played that now im 22 been gaming for awile long enough to see many deaths of MMO's and have a understanding that genre needs a change and that gw2 is maybe going give us the change if gw2 wont then im giving up on MMOs for next 3 years and just play single player games
I think people that started with WoW at launch could be considered a vet, maybe as long as they have a dozen other titles under their belt along with WoW. But I think some people around here would only consider those who started out with the first graphical MMOs vets.
Comments
It's quite funny looking at peoples dates that they joined this site and answer in a vets thread. Maybe they didn't find this site until late on in life.
From my point of view, MMO's are dead in the old sense. People don't want old style games where they have to think, group and use teamwork. They just want to be lead through a game to the level cap as fast as possible. I'll wait with this game and see what happens over the first 3 months then decide whether to buy it or not.
I am hyped about GW2 and I never even liked GW
I am more of a sandbox guy, but I believe that GW2 will be the perfect casual game for everyone (casual, hardcore, oldschool or newbies)
I don't think I am going to be disappointed because GW2 is not trying to be the WoW killer, but something different.
In the end it might not be everyone cup of tea but surely GW2 won't be another WoW clone, which is a start.
the game will see few million copys, BUT after few months the game will start to fail hard ... arenanet wont bother much since by the time they will have massive profit.
why will it fail?
cuz only casuals will continue to play it ... for all real gamers this game just wont be appealing
it has the TERA syndrome;
- way to easy leveling
-lack of end content
-lack of pve
- offers only pvp and some nice graphics (same as tera + tera has bit better graphics)
- the games focus will be wvwvw (guess what, same as tera) .. wich is nothing new tbh
overall this game is just waaay to lite, its a casual game wich focuses on pvp... i see no reason to play this game apart from loging every few weeks and kill some kids, thats all
The only reason why it will be better as tera is the b2p system, if it would be p2p it would fail like tera will after few months
-------
.......................goes back waiting for Archage
I missed the memo about having to be a vet of this forum in order to be a vet of the actual genre
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Have no interest in GW2 at all, nor anything else coming out.
Godz of War I call Thee
I am excited about the PvP. As a DAOC vet I think this is the most exciting aspect.
I think PvE players will get bored, much like the original game, as PvE'ers seem to need the gear grind carrot to stay interested. Yes I know you can grind for appearance or titles, but the same could be said about GW1 and most PvE groups in that dropped off a few months after each expansion launch.
I've been on quite a long MMO hiatus since I quit Aion almost a year ago now.
When I did play GW1 at launch, I very much enjoyed it. Although at that time I'd admit my experience with MMOs was severely limited.
GW2 however seems to be attempting to break the mould. I've seen developers passionate about their product, but GW2 has taken it to a new level. I can really see they want to make this product great.
Currently, after seeing WvW systems explained and screenshots, I'm VERY hyped for this game.
My only concern is that which most people have. Post launch update plans. With a solid endgame in place however, I'm quite confident in the first 3 months of GW2 being very entertaining. Its what they do afterwards really. That said...a better base for a game to launch off has not existed to this date, in terms of content. Rift came close, but GW2 takes it to another level.
you hype a game? you are new to the genre
next.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Nope. While I am looking forward to it, I still maintain my skepticism.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
There is not such a memo..............but it kinda obvious.
Vet doesn't mean you are an expert, just that you play those games longer than most
Unless you meant that a newby in this forum might be a vet as well, in which case you are right, but I find it difficult to think tht a vet of this genre doesn't have an old account with this site which is the oldest MMO site on the net.
I've certainly complained more than praised lately, as I haven't seen any new approaches in a long time. 2004-2011 was, in my opinion, a period when this genre stopped evolving in any meaningful way as companies continually fell over themselves trying to create their own version of WoW in an attempt to grab a chunk of it's success rather than evolve the genre as a whole. The 'past' me, at various points between the late 90's and early 2000s, occasionally thought 'Wow, can you imagine what this genre could evolve into over the next decade? It'll be amazing to watch all the creative ideas unfold as imaginative developers gain access to new technology and expand this genre'. Instead the whole thing stuttered to a halt for about seven years as nearly everyone with any funding chased the same exact pie as WoW, strangely with almost the exact same game - usually just less smooth.
I personally enjoyed it when different games were different games, rather than a new clone of WoW - complete with it's limitations and restrictions despite advances in technology and the fact that the people that wanted WoW already had WoW.
So, while I am looking forward to playing GW2 and seeing how all of their approaches fit together, I'm more 'hyped' about the idea that finally someone with funding and apparent ability is making an MMO that goes beyond another linear task hub grind and approaching the entire experience with some creative solutions to decade old problems. Plus, so far it just looks like it could be a lot of fun (I may prefer semi-hardcore high risk sandbox fantasy experiences, but I love games and can appreciate a fun experience for what it is when one pops up).
While it may not end up being my dream game, I'm very proud of them for not just turning in sloppily copied homework and I hope it marks the end of big budget WoW clones. That would be great for the next 10 years of development.
As for hyped, that would really apply to Pathfinder Online & ArcheAge for me. Those two are really sounding great so far.
Lets be clear here Guild Wars 2 isn't truly a "MMO" In a sense to what a MMO is but it will be(i know what i just said make's little sense) There is no death of MMOs, It's the start of bad developer's with bad ideas to make quick cash, not the classic developer's (EQ,DAoC,AC,UO,AC2,,EvE FFS...etc) with bright smart ideas.
Anyway's YES I am hyped for Guild Wars 2, It's going to be sick and i cannot wait any longer, but i want it to be amazing not rushed either.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
I missed the memo about having to be a vet of this forum in order to be a vet of the actual genre
There is not such a memo..............but it kinda obvious.
Vet doesn't mean you are an expert, just that you play those games longer than most
Unless you meant that a newby in this forum might be a vet as well, in which case you are right, but I find it difficult to think tht a vet of this genre doesn't have an old account with this site which is the oldest MMO site on the net.
The forum that I was a member of for almost a dozen years, closed shop last year. I'm testing the waters here.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
2000 people in one zone makes me think this is an MMO more so than any other "mmo" of the past 5 years...
Read up on the WvWvW info and tell me thats not an MMO
Playing mmos for 10+ years, video games for 25 years.
I've never been so hyped by a mmo combat mechanics than with GW2, but with perspective, I'm a bit worried about the low number of infight skills for most classes
Due to being a very long time player, I'm expecting every new MMO to step things further, so for combat I'm expecting complex, very deep and varied mechanics. Aside the Elementalist with its 20 skills, I'm not sure GW2 combat strategy choices will be that varied.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
I put my hopes in this game. I hope they will deliver everything they promised so far.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Not trying to start a fight; But clearly you didn't read the entire post. I said It isn't truly a MMO ina sense to what a MMO is, but it will be. I even stated what i just said made little sense because it's contredicting myself. I know everything about Guild Wars 2, Well everything anyone else will if they do any research i have also played Guild Wars 1 since closed beta, and been following GW2 since i saw a leaked post of a project about Guild Wars 2.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
/Signed
Especially the Combat, i cant stand anymore the boring and pointless combat of classic mmos. (although iam not really confident about the GW2 combat system, but it could at least be a step in the right direction)
And of course the WvW. It may be the second DAoC with a few improvements. On the other Hand WAR was also meant to be the next DAoC, and everyone knows what happend.
As i always said the last years. Time will tell. Just wait and see.
About beeing hyped.. i really dont know, if i am able to be really hyped. The last time i played more than a few month was WoW, and that was a let-down. After that i was hyped for Darkfall, another let-down.
At least i will try it out, and the hope dies last.
What defines an "MMO Vet" anyway? I started with mmo's with wow (EU vanilla launch) if you exclude my free ride on runescape before..
And I am looking forward to GW2 because a large portion of the things I complained about and thought was weird/dumb in WoW (and some of it's clones) have been remedied in GW2.
Never need to fight over a mob(or collectables or whatever) again while "questing" and wait for it's respawn ( i remember standing in 20+ minutes queues to kill mobs in wow vanilla release)
Mr gnoll super leader doesn't just stand around walking in a 2 square meter box waiting to be killed and respawns 30 seconds later when you do so.
No 2 month ardous gear grind to be able experience pvp without getting 1 shot.
and many more.
Name? (Just curious)
what this dude said its very true its been really bad for us MMO players that we been getting scammed in theses WoW clones even stwor is a WoW clone as much as people dont wanna admit it that bioware game will fail soon already seeing people QQing about it due to WoWi cloneing
BTW
WAR PVP - people here criticise it. But, WAR failed at big picture. But its PVP was awesome.
The game just lacked in so many different areas aside from PVP (like stability , PVE, balance)
in my eyes your a vet your same as me Runescape was my first MMO when i was 13 then WoW came out and i played that now im 22 been gaming for awile long enough to see many deaths of MMO's and have a understanding that genre needs a change and that gw2 is maybe going give us the change if gw2 wont then im giving up on MMOs for next 3 years and just play single player games
True i liked War it was really good game just got a bad rep in the end war end up fixing most of issues but was too late people left
I think people that started with WoW at launch could be considered a vet, maybe as long as they have a dozen other titles under their belt along with WoW. But I think some people around here would only consider those who started out with the first graphical MMOs vets.