I love the satirical nature of the OP and recognise the frustration felt with many of the posts here.
He is right that a bloated proportion of posters on this site have quite ridiculous ideals of what can be achieved and delivered on a budget. It seems as if any new game is expected to be the very best of every game which has gone before and on launch day.
This is not too say that every critical post is pointless and valid points are often made between the seas of hype and diatribe.
The genre is clearly a success in terms of generating revenue. My personal opinion is that it is the community itself that has sunk lowest. So much of what people write is negative, often baseless and frequently over emotional. Ever since the demise of SWG a large proportion of posters here seem fixated on ranting relentlessly about their recent gaming disappointment. It can be rather pathetic at times.
On a positive note I've been playing TERA all weekend and having a great time. I can't guarantee it will keep me occupied for the next 5 years but it will probably last me longer than Skyrim (a known epic game).
It was more like drop WiS and get back to FiS because WiS wasn't going to bring a jackpot of new gamers and to continue chasing that rainbow was going to cost them their current players. Their current players were more than happy just floating around in a can than the future prospect of watching their avatar sitting in a space station drinking Quafe.
It'd surprise me if "new players" was CCP's goal with the avatar system. In fact the point of the avatar system is really hazy overall, apart from some vague desire to distance themselves from the rare "I could never get into a game where my avatar is a spaceship" comment.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You know what would be interesting? If someone actually did a huge graphical upgrade on the old classics. Then release fresh servers. From a personal perspective there would be nothing stopping me trying EQ1, DAOC or Anarchy Online ( none of which I've played) if this happened. Can anyone fault the mechanics of those games? People want that, but also want the visual appearance to match. I don't see it as a huge undertaking, ive seen graphical upgrades before. Several months of hardcore artistry perhaps.
Afaik, it's just replacing existing assets, not a single line of new code, maybe some atmospheric effects. Would people try the old games re-released as new with post 2010 graphics? I think so, really do.
You know what would be interesting? If someone actually did a huge graphical upgrade on the old classics. Then release fresh servers. From a personal perspective there would be nothing stopping me trying EQ1, DAOC or Anarchy Online ( none of which I've played) if this happened. Can anyone fault the mechanics of those games? People want that, but also want the visual appearance to match. I don't see it as a huge undertaking, ive seen graphical upgrades before. Several months of hardcore artistry perhaps.
Afaik, it's just replacing existing assets, not a single line of new code, maybe some atmospheric effects. Would people try the old games re-released as new with post 2010 graphics? I think so, really do.
totally agree.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Suraknar Originally posted by nikoliath ....is due to the fact that all the industry experts seem to hang out in forums. It seems many of them know better but instead of doing their work they spend endless hours telling everyone how much game "A" sucks and should have been made in format "x".
Great and Inspirational Post! I am by no means an "industry expert", just a player with lots of playing experience ove rthe past 15 years, somewhat fed up of what the industry is churning out, dissapointed with all of the games in the last 8 years or so, trying to have some fun in a game that all my friends will enjoy aswell. How many times have you gone in to a game all hyped up with your guild only to see interest fall within two weeks then one leaves then another and another then yourself, then people get frustrated that their friends are quiting and morale falls for everyone. This happens in reality all over the place with many different guilds, it is not only yours. The root cause, in my opinion, is the types of games that the Industry is making. Too narrow too specialised too focussed on one thing and one thing alone, which obviously appeals to specific types of people and not others. But a group of friends is diverse it is made up of many different people especially the older guilds which got origianlly formed in games with much wider scope. It seems like the industry is approaching this issue in a very impersonal way, not taking under account the nature of players. A big part of playing an MMO is the fact that it can be ahsraed experience with one's friends, but when the game itself only caters to specific personalities and 3/4 of one's friends quit it, then there is no motivation to stay either, the game becomes unfun even for thos ethat initially may have like it. I do nto know if this is due to the pressures develloment Team undergoe, I do not know if this is due to Investment practices forcing Devellopers to excute the same plan over and over without having any freedom to be innovative or creative being constrtained by the same formula, or if simpy as you say the big talents spend more time writting Blogs and Giving seminars rather than making games. But the situation does need to change. That being said, I have had the urge to make such a game myself for 10 years now, about 7 years ago I started puting on paper my ideas, brainstormed my butt off, played things out in my mind , discussed with some very close and trustworthy friends who also play MMO's for 15 years, droped some ideas, refined others, and a year ago I decided to go forth in realising this goal, I am now back in University learning the skills in Game Devellopment.. The good thing is that during these 10 years no one else made that game, albeit I have seen many of my ideas in many separate games in one form or another, it made me realise through the process that Ideas are not unique in reality, everyone can have the same ideas, yet from the same basic ideas, you could have 10 different results of games or more, it also depends on your vision and synthesis of these ideas, or if you will implementation. I should be seeking Investment in the near future, in a presentation room near you, and if the investors/publishers are narrow minded and intransigeant, well then independent devellopment will be what will need to happen. Sa as players we should not denigrate Indies please automatically, they may not have the Chuck Norris Ads all over Yutube, but that does not mean that they can't make good fun games that many here want to be playing in reality. Yes I agree some Indie companies have dissapointed us in the near past, but then again AAA companies have been dissapointing us for the past 8 years or so too. Yet when we see a new game made by AAA companies we all flock to them no questions asked like bees towards honney, and we get dissapointed anyways. Lets not generalise. Cheers!
Same here. I was looking into doing an MSc in AI, but I can't really afford it, as I can't get funding anymore as ive been to uni twice now lol. With each year that passes, the tools available are making it easier and easier for indies to get into the market, both in technology and the platforms to get their wares to their audience. I'm going to spend the next few months sinking my teeth into the latest engines and see what can be done. For all those under the impression that you need millions in cash, dozens in staff and several years of development - well that's changing. I won't go into the how and why, but let's just say from 2013, the turnover of MMO releases will be unprecedented, especially from indies. 2012 is the transition year.
It was more like drop WiS and get back to FiS because WiS wasn't going to bring a jackpot of new gamers and to continue chasing that rainbow was going to cost them their current players. Their current players were more than happy just floating around in a can than the future prospect of watching their avatar sitting in a space station drinking Quafe.
It'd surprise me if "new players" was CCP's goal with the avatar system. In fact the point of the avatar system is really hazy overall, apart from some vague desire to distance themselves from the rare "I could never get into a game where my avatar is a spaceship" comment.
Rare? That's the number one complaint of people that have trialed eve but failed to stay that CCP could actually do something about.
It was more like drop WiS and get back to FiS because WiS wasn't going to bring a jackpot of new gamers and to continue chasing that rainbow was going to cost them their current players. Their current players were more than happy just floating around in a can than the future prospect of watching their avatar sitting in a space station drinking Quafe.
It'd surprise me if "new players" was CCP's goal with the avatar system. In fact the point of the avatar system is really hazy overall, apart from some vague desire to distance themselves from the rare "I could never get into a game where my avatar is a spaceship" comment.
Rare? That's the number one complaint of people that have trialed eve but failed to stay that CCP could actually do something about.
LOL, yup. Can we say: out...of...touch?
I can't tell you how many times I've heard new players complain about that feature not being in EVE since my time with the game began in '05. Mmo gamers definitely like them some real usable avatars.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
Whaa? But wait....it's not?
No, seriously....I just like to try every game, for the most part. I find something to enjoy in all of them and play them for a month if they're not great imo, or longer if they are outstanding. The most terrific games for me....those I play for years. I don't switch games at the drop of a hat. I play until I'm no longer enjoying a game and then I either add a new game or leave it for a new game, depending on whether I feel it has more potential for me.
When people pay for something, they usually have some level of expectation, whether realistic or not. I try to be realistic in what I expect from games and that's why I generally enjoy most games I play for one thing or another. But I'm not apt to stay in a game for years that doesn't give me that sort of long term entertainment potential. But that doesn't mean I won't stay for months in a less than perfect game and just enjoy it for what it is (SWTOR, for instance). And yes, since I'm paying to play games....I will try TSW and GW2 as well. I may keep playing two or three, or I may just play one.
If this is what you mean by "moving onto the next greatest release" then I'm guilty. But I don't see it that way. I'm a gamer....I game. That generally means I will have a combination of different lengths of stay in each game depending on how entertaining I found it to be. I don't think that's a BAD thing.
Originally posted by just1opinion Originally posted by MMOGamer71 The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
Whaa? But wait....it's not? No, seriously....I just like to try every game, for the most part. I find something to enjoy in all of them and play them for a month if they're not great imo, or longer if they are outstanding. The most terrific games for me....those I play for years. I don't switch games at the drop of a hat. I play until I'm no longer enjoying a game and then I either add a new game or leave it for a new game, depending on whether I feel it has more potential for me.
When people pay for something, they usually have some level of expectation, whether realistic or not. I try to be realistic in what I expect from games and that's why I generally enjoy most games I play for one thing or another. But I'm not apt to stay in a game for years that doesn't give me that sort of long term entertainment potential. But that doesn't mean I won't stay for months in a less than perfect game and just enjoy it for what it is (SWTOR, for instance). And yes, since I'm paying to play games....I will try TSW and GW2 as well. I may keep playing two or three, or I may just play one.
If this is what you mean by "moving onto the next greatest release" then I'm guilty. But I don't see it that way. I'm a gamer....I game. That generally means I will have a combination of different lengths of stay in each game depending on how entertaining I found it to be. I don't think that's a BAD thing. I agree. It seems with the last few mmos Iv'e played, the devs push me out the door before I'm ready to call it quits. Guess its my playstyle. Crafting becomes obsolete by the first major patch, economy revolves around consumables and boe loot drops, new content is usually instanced and non explorer friendly. So I get bounced around from game to game, hoping one sticks.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
Whaa? But wait....it's not?
No, seriously....I just like to try every game, for the most part. I find something to enjoy in all of them and play them for a month if they're not great imo, or longer if they are outstanding. The most terrific games for me....those I play for years. I don't switch games at the drop of a hat. I play until I'm no longer enjoying a game and then I either add a new game or leave it for a new game, depending on whether I feel it has more potential for me.
When people pay for something, they usually have some level of expectation, whether realistic or not. I try to be realistic in what I expect from games and that's why I generally enjoy most games I play for one thing or another. But I'm not apt to stay in a game for years that doesn't give me that sort of long term entertainment potential. But that doesn't mean I won't stay for months in a less than perfect game and just enjoy it for what it is (SWTOR, for instance). And yes, since I'm paying to play games....I will try TSW and GW2 as well. I may keep playing two or three, or I may just play one.
If this is what you mean by "moving onto the next greatest release" then I'm guilty. But I don't see it that way. I'm a gamer....I game. That generally means I will have a combination of different lengths of stay in each game depending on how entertaining I found it to be. I don't think that's a BAD thing.
Truth.
I don't mind dedication to some ideas, but not to games. I am paying the devs to play the game, not them paying me to stay. I'm not going to miss out on a game that is possible better because I'm 'dedicated.' As long as I enjoy it, I will play it. Above anything else, gaming to me, as hardcore and extreme hobby it is to me, will always be enterainment.
the main reason is because ppl r scared and narrow minded...no one wants to embrace new things and are quick to dimiss or cry "WITCH BURN THE WITCH" at somethign taht is diffrent and new or innovative...or as most ppl woudl say isnt liek WoW
First, develpers now try to spend the least amount of time, money and effort in order to make the most money. They try to reach EVERY SINGLE gamer out there and in order to do that they dumb down the games to great lengths. They focus on box sales instead of longevity. Garbage in, garbage out...next crappy project.
But most importantly, it's us, gamers as a whole, who have failed. If we continue to support these crappy products with our cash things will NEVER change. We can bitch and moan all we want but until we STOP PAYING for garbage, garbage is exactly what we're going to get.
I couldnt agree more.
We must STOP SUPPORTING lackluster game design
Unfortunately its not that simple.
The market is saturated with said lackluster game design, leaving us with only 2 options...
1) Continue to pay for lackluster game design because there is nothing else
2) Stop playing MMOs altogether
So far we've been taking option 1, and nothing has changed
If we take option 2, MMOs will fail, investors will think the 'fad' is over, and they'll be afraid to put money into the genre altogether. Resulting in a total failure of the genre.
The current situation of MMOs is like a miniature version of the video gaming crash of the 80s.
You're forgetting the third option which is to complain about about lackluster design which is something this thread is trying to stifle with the idea that we should put up or shut up.
I'm sitting here saying that I've got money to spend but it's too bad I don't like the current crop of lackluster game titles due to their design.
That still falls under option 1 or 2 I listed before. We can either pay for whats available (1), or for nothing at all (2). The complaints, while a great way to vent frustration, tend to fall on deaf ears because the money we put out speaks louder. So unless some game developer out there takes the first step, things wont likely change.
I can play a MMORPG and still complain about the lack of good design as I did when I played eve online, but would of preferred to play the older version of SWG.
Yep, yep, I do that too. Falls under number 1, though. We're paying for whats available, which is largely lackluster crapola.
It was more like drop WiS and get back to FiS because WiS wasn't going to bring a jackpot of new gamers and to continue chasing that rainbow was going to cost them their current players. Their current players were more than happy just floating around in a can than the future prospect of watching their avatar sitting in a space station drinking Quafe.
It'd surprise me if "new players" was CCP's goal with the avatar system. In fact the point of the avatar system is really hazy overall, apart from some vague desire to distance themselves from the rare "I could never get into a game where my avatar is a spaceship" comment.
Rare? That's the number one complaint of people that have trialed eve but failed to stay that CCP could actually do something about.
LOL, yup. Can we say: out...of...touch?
I can't tell you how many times I've heard new players complain about that feature not being in EVE since my time with the game began in '05. Mmo gamers definitely like them some real usable avatars.
It's the main reason I unsubbed after 4+ years...got tired of looking at a ship and not feeling like I was really flying it.
I miss Earth and Beyond for this very reason. Wait, who canceled E&B? That's right, EA... /sigh
It was more like drop WiS and get back to FiS because WiS wasn't going to bring a jackpot of new gamers and to continue chasing that rainbow was going to cost them their current players. Their current players were more than happy just floating around in a can than the future prospect of watching their avatar sitting in a space station drinking Quafe.
It'd surprise me if "new players" was CCP's goal with the avatar system. In fact the point of the avatar system is really hazy overall, apart from some vague desire to distance themselves from the rare "I could never get into a game where my avatar is a spaceship" comment.
Rare? That's the number one complaint of people that have trialed eve but failed to stay that CCP could actually do something about.
LOL, yup. Can we say: out...of...touch?
I can't tell you how many times I've heard new players complain about that feature not being in EVE since my time with the game began in '05. Mmo gamers definitely like them some real usable avatars.
It's the main reason I unsubbed after 4+ years...got tired of looking at a ship and not feeling like I was really flying it.
I miss Earth and Beyond for this very reason. Wait, who canceled E&B? That's right, EA... /sigh
I swear EA is the devil. But I hate sony as well for crapping on Vanguard.
It seems that people can't simply just not like a game, explain why, and then stop discussing it. Instead, the commentary is always about how," X game is bad", "X developer did this wrong", " X is too themepark/sandbox", or "X games graphics sucks".
If I was X, Y, or Z _ I'd be pissed.
It has become rather ridiculous though...
If you like a game, like it.
If you don't like it... say why ONCE and then move on. Bashing people over the head with a differing opinion to get them to agree is never warranted, wanted, or successful.
It seems that people can't simply just not like a game, explain why, and then stop discussing it. Instead, the commentary is always about how," X game is bad", "X developer did this wrong", " X is too themepark/sandbox", or "X games graphics sucks".
If I was X, Y, or Z _ I'd be pissed.
It has become rather ridiculous though...
If you like a game, like it.
If you don't like it... say why ONCE and then move on. Bashing people over the head with a differing opinion to get them to agree is never warranted, wanted, or successful.
This post sucks, it's too rational and correct. It clearly does not fit on this forum. When developing this post, Akais failed to cater to my desires, so it's terrible, overhyped, and made for children, and so is the poster
These Akais fanboys are so sad, little kiddies following this watered-down post. I can't even make suitable player housing in the post or navigate it without seeing an 'I' start every sentence - sounds way too themepark for MY tastes!
Sigh. It's obvious that the developers at Akais are money-loving bandits and have destroyed the MMO community for a buck. I wish the developers would die and we could get a REAL poster on the scene.
The only MMO that has given me over 9 years of enjoyment whether just reading the lore or actualy playing the game has been Eve Online. This is due to the devleopers remaking the textures and adding new content at a regular pace. All of which is free.
There are no maximum levels and no maximum skills you can learn, the sandbox allows a gameplay unlike any other mmo on the market. All the content is player driven which means no two days are the same, and one small action can have countless ripples throughout the game. To me and I have seen many of these small ripples its makes the game an amazing place to be.
The reason the MMO industry games fail is that they see WoW as a succsess and wish to copy it. Problem is the genre is starting to lack innovation and is getting bogged down by trying to copy the template WoW has. SWTOR is a perfect example. So much could of been done to this new game, the voice acting is a brilliant idea. The way the quests are all story driven on each planet is another good idea.
But why stick with talent trees and levels?
Why have a crafting system that is pointless and just ends up a money sink?
SWG before the NGE had a really good design concept one of the strongest land based crafting systems (other than Eve) in any MMO I have seen. A sandbox type game play where you picked you own skill set from 36 proffesions.
DAoC had one of the best pvp mechanics in any MMO I have seen for a fantasy based kind and then Mythic changed the concept with WAR to make it more like WoW...... why ? Battlegrounds are not fun it makes pvp pointless and just another grind. RvR in DAoC was unique and could of been implemented brilliantly into WAR.
If they remake Ultima Online into a MMO with a sandbox type game play with the pvp of DAoC and the crafting system of SWG for me that would be the perfect fantasy MMO. Vanguard came very close to it. But it was still stuck on using levels and skill vendors.
But for now the only MMO on the market that is trying new things, that listen to the player base. And does not cripple me if I cant play for a few days is Eve Online. CCP have got the mixture right with this one and Eve has spoiled me when I look at other MMO's as I see them as inferior products. Last night I logged in to Eve and saw there were 51000 other players all the same server as me. Thats 51000 people I could possibly interact with either through pvp, trading or just building simple diplomatic relations. What other MMO has those possiblities?
Rare? That's the number one complaint of people that have trialed eve but failed to stay that CCP could actually do something about.
LOL, yup. Can we say: out...of...touch?
I can't tell you how many times I've heard new players complain about that feature not being in EVE since my time with the game began in '05. Mmo gamers definitely like them some real usable avatars.
Yeah, but you can't just sate that need with a light avatar system. To create what those players want you essentially have to create an entire avatar-centric game from scratch within EVE. Doing that would be nearly as crazy as CU SWG.
A good product knows its audience and focuses on them. It doesn't try to be all things to all people inside a single game.
The only thing CCP should ever do to service those complaints is to create a second avatar-centric game (which they sort of are/were..)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
This. MMOs rely too much on player interaction. If there are not enough players, no one will play it because it's a multiplayer game after all. It's a vicious circle.
What makes it even more difficult for MMOs is the subscription fee. Because people are playing every month in addition to the box price people expect A LOT more from the game. People will never come back to play a game just for lolz because they have to pay more in sub fees.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Tsw currently has NO end game raids, they are looking to add 1 10 man raid after launch though, the design of the game doesn't really support the wow style tiered raiding progression in that as you advance you start gaining in power mostly vertically, but as you get further into the game its more horizontal progression in the form of alternate builds and specialist gear.
The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
This. MMOs rely too much on player interaction. If there are not enough players, no one will play it because it's a multiplayer game after all. It's a vicious circle.
What makes it even more difficult for MMOs is the subscription fee. Because people are playing every month in addition to the box price people expect A LOT more from the game. People will never come back to play a game just for lolz because they have to pay more in sub fees.
Player interaction? Really? Just how antisocial has this generation become when "player interaction" is being considered a fault?
The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
This. MMOs rely too much on player interaction. If there are not enough players, no one will play it because it's a multiplayer game after all. It's a vicious circle.
What makes it even more difficult for MMOs is the subscription fee. Because people are playing every month in addition to the box price people expect A LOT more from the game. People will never come back to play a game just for lolz because they have to pay more in sub fees.
Player interaction? Really? Just how antisocial has this generation become when "player interaction" is being considered a fault?
Seeing this made me sad
You really need to read again..thats is not what he was saying.
The genre is failing because by it's nature (MMORPG) it requires player interaction and server development , too many players move on to the next greatest release as if it is a competition for a "Most Games Played Award"
This. MMOs rely too much on player interaction. If there are not enough players, no one will play it because it's a multiplayer game after all. It's a vicious circle.
What makes it even more difficult for MMOs is the subscription fee. Because people are playing every month in addition to the box price people expect A LOT more from the game. People will never come back to play a game just for lolz because they have to pay more in sub fees.
Player interaction? Really? Just how antisocial has this generation become when "player interaction" is being considered a fault?
Seeing this made me sad
You really need to read again..thats is not what he was saying.
Actually I read it just fine, but I'll admit I should've only replied to MMOGamer, and not both since thats who my response was directed to. I also dont agree about subscription fees either. You pay for a game that continues to expand and change, it should be expected to pay a subscription fee. B2P games, I wouldn't expect constant updates and changes.
Comments
exactly.
It'd surprise me if "new players" was CCP's goal with the avatar system. In fact the point of the avatar system is really hazy overall, apart from some vague desire to distance themselves from the rare "I could never get into a game where my avatar is a spaceship" comment.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Afaik, it's just replacing existing assets, not a single line of new code, maybe some atmospheric effects. Would people try the old games re-released as new with post 2010 graphics? I think so, really do.
totally agree.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I am by no means an "industry expert", just a player with lots of playing experience ove rthe past 15 years, somewhat fed up of what the industry is churning out, dissapointed with all of the games in the last 8 years or so, trying to have some fun in a game that all my friends will enjoy aswell.
How many times have you gone in to a game all hyped up with your guild only to see interest fall within two weeks then one leaves then another and another then yourself, then people get frustrated that their friends are quiting and morale falls for everyone.
This happens in reality all over the place with many different guilds, it is not only yours. The root cause, in my opinion, is the types of games that the Industry is making.
Too narrow too specialised too focussed on one thing and one thing alone, which obviously appeals to specific types of people and not others. But a group of friends is diverse it is made up of many different people especially the older guilds which got origianlly formed in games with much wider scope.
It seems like the industry is approaching this issue in a very impersonal way, not taking under account the nature of players. A big part of playing an MMO is the fact that it can be ahsraed experience with one's friends, but when the game itself only caters to specific personalities and 3/4 of one's friends quit it, then there is no motivation to stay either, the game becomes unfun even for thos ethat initially may have like it.
I do nto know if this is due to the pressures develloment Team undergoe, I do not know if this is due to Investment practices forcing Devellopers to excute the same plan over and over without having any freedom to be innovative or creative being constrtained by the same formula, or if simpy as you say the big talents spend more time writting Blogs and Giving seminars rather than making games.
But the situation does need to change.
That being said, I have had the urge to make such a game myself for 10 years now, about 7 years ago I started puting on paper my ideas, brainstormed my butt off, played things out in my mind , discussed with some very close and trustworthy friends who also play MMO's for 15 years, droped some ideas, refined others, and a year ago I decided to go forth in realising this goal, I am now back in University learning the skills in Game Devellopment..
The good thing is that during these 10 years no one else made that game, albeit I have seen many of my ideas in many separate games in one form or another, it made me realise through the process that Ideas are not unique in reality, everyone can have the same ideas, yet from the same basic ideas, you could have 10 different results of games or more, it also depends on your vision and synthesis of these ideas, or if you will implementation.
I should be seeking Investment in the near future, in a presentation room near you, and if the investors/publishers are narrow minded and intransigeant, well then independent devellopment will be what will need to happen.
Sa as players we should not denigrate Indies please automatically, they may not have the Chuck Norris Ads all over Yutube, but that does not mean that they can't make good fun games that many here want to be playing in reality.
Yes I agree some Indie companies have dissapointed us in the near past, but then again AAA companies have been dissapointing us for the past 8 years or so too. Yet when we see a new game made by AAA companies we all flock to them no questions asked like bees towards honney, and we get dissapointed anyways. Lets not generalise.
Cheers!
Same here. I was looking into doing an MSc in AI, but I can't really afford it, as I can't get funding anymore as ive been to uni twice now lol. With each year that passes, the tools available are making it easier and easier for indies to get into the market, both in technology and the platforms to get their wares to their audience. I'm going to spend the next few months sinking my teeth into the latest engines and see what can be done. For all those under the impression that you need millions in cash, dozens in staff and several years of development - well that's changing. I won't go into the how and why, but let's just say from 2013, the turnover of MMO releases will be unprecedented, especially from indies. 2012 is the transition year.
Rare? That's the number one complaint of people that have trialed eve but failed to stay that CCP could actually do something about.
LOL, yup. Can we say: out...of...touch?
I can't tell you how many times I've heard new players complain about that feature not being in EVE since my time with the game began in '05. Mmo gamers definitely like them some real usable avatars.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Whaa? But wait....it's not?
No, seriously....I just like to try every game, for the most part. I find something to enjoy in all of them and play them for a month if they're not great imo, or longer if they are outstanding. The most terrific games for me....those I play for years. I don't switch games at the drop of a hat. I play until I'm no longer enjoying a game and then I either add a new game or leave it for a new game, depending on whether I feel it has more potential for me.
When people pay for something, they usually have some level of expectation, whether realistic or not. I try to be realistic in what I expect from games and that's why I generally enjoy most games I play for one thing or another. But I'm not apt to stay in a game for years that doesn't give me that sort of long term entertainment potential. But that doesn't mean I won't stay for months in a less than perfect game and just enjoy it for what it is (SWTOR, for instance). And yes, since I'm paying to play games....I will try TSW and GW2 as well. I may keep playing two or three, or I may just play one.
If this is what you mean by "moving onto the next greatest release" then I'm guilty. But I don't see it that way. I'm a gamer....I game. That generally means I will have a combination of different lengths of stay in each game depending on how entertaining I found it to be. I don't think that's a BAD thing.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
No, seriously....I just like to try every game, for the most part. I find something to enjoy in all of them and play them for a month if they're not great imo, or longer if they are outstanding. The most terrific games for me....those I play for years. I don't switch games at the drop of a hat. I play until I'm no longer enjoying a game and then I either add a new game or leave it for a new game, depending on whether I feel it has more potential for me.
When people pay for something, they usually have some level of expectation, whether realistic or not. I try to be realistic in what I expect from games and that's why I generally enjoy most games I play for one thing or another. But I'm not apt to stay in a game for years that doesn't give me that sort of long term entertainment potential. But that doesn't mean I won't stay for months in a less than perfect game and just enjoy it for what it is (SWTOR, for instance). And yes, since I'm paying to play games....I will try TSW and GW2 as well. I may keep playing two or three, or I may just play one.
If this is what you mean by "moving onto the next greatest release" then I'm guilty. But I don't see it that way. I'm a gamer....I game. That generally means I will have a combination of different lengths of stay in each game depending on how entertaining I found it to be. I don't think that's a BAD thing.
I agree. It seems with the last few mmos Iv'e played, the devs push me out the door before I'm ready to call it quits. Guess its my playstyle. Crafting becomes obsolete by the first major patch, economy revolves around consumables and boe loot drops, new content is usually instanced and non explorer friendly. So I get bounced around from game to game, hoping one sticks.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Truth.
I don't mind dedication to some ideas, but not to games. I am paying the devs to play the game, not them paying me to stay. I'm not going to miss out on a game that is possible better because I'm 'dedicated.' As long as I enjoy it, I will play it. Above anything else, gaming to me, as hardcore and extreme hobby it is to me, will always be enterainment.
the main reason is because ppl r scared and narrow minded...no one wants to embrace new things and are quick to dimiss or cry "WITCH BURN THE WITCH" at somethign taht is diffrent and new or innovative...or as most ppl woudl say isnt liek WoW
Yep, yep, I do that too. Falls under number 1, though. We're paying for whats available, which is largely lackluster crapola.
I expected this to be another fail cry thread about the state of the industry. Well done. Well done indeed.
It's the main reason I unsubbed after 4+ years...got tired of looking at a ship and not feeling like I was really flying it.
I miss Earth and Beyond for this very reason. Wait, who canceled E&B? That's right, EA... /sigh
I swear EA is the devil. But I hate sony as well for crapping on Vanguard.
I have to agree with the OP on this one.
It seems that people can't simply just not like a game, explain why, and then stop discussing it. Instead, the commentary is always about how," X game is bad", "X developer did this wrong", " X is too themepark/sandbox", or "X games graphics sucks".
If I was X, Y, or Z _ I'd be pissed.
It has become rather ridiculous though...
If you like a game, like it.
If you don't like it... say why ONCE and then move on. Bashing people over the head with a differing opinion to get them to agree is never warranted, wanted, or successful.
This post sucks, it's too rational and correct. It clearly does not fit on this forum. When developing this post, Akais failed to cater to my desires, so it's terrible, overhyped, and made for children, and so is the poster
These Akais fanboys are so sad, little kiddies following this watered-down post. I can't even make suitable player housing in the post or navigate it without seeing an 'I' start every sentence - sounds way too themepark for MY tastes!
Sigh. It's obvious that the developers at Akais are money-loving bandits and have destroyed the MMO community for a buck. I wish the developers would die and we could get a REAL poster on the scene.
Like Khaeros.
none of this matters if we keep pulling out our wallets every time.
The only MMO that has given me over 9 years of enjoyment whether just reading the lore or actualy playing the game has been Eve Online. This is due to the devleopers remaking the textures and adding new content at a regular pace. All of which is free.
There are no maximum levels and no maximum skills you can learn, the sandbox allows a gameplay unlike any other mmo on the market. All the content is player driven which means no two days are the same, and one small action can have countless ripples throughout the game. To me and I have seen many of these small ripples its makes the game an amazing place to be.
The reason the MMO industry games fail is that they see WoW as a succsess and wish to copy it. Problem is the genre is starting to lack innovation and is getting bogged down by trying to copy the template WoW has. SWTOR is a perfect example. So much could of been done to this new game, the voice acting is a brilliant idea. The way the quests are all story driven on each planet is another good idea.
But why stick with talent trees and levels?
Why have a crafting system that is pointless and just ends up a money sink?
SWG before the NGE had a really good design concept one of the strongest land based crafting systems (other than Eve) in any MMO I have seen. A sandbox type game play where you picked you own skill set from 36 proffesions.
DAoC had one of the best pvp mechanics in any MMO I have seen for a fantasy based kind and then Mythic changed the concept with WAR to make it more like WoW...... why ? Battlegrounds are not fun it makes pvp pointless and just another grind. RvR in DAoC was unique and could of been implemented brilliantly into WAR.
If they remake Ultima Online into a MMO with a sandbox type game play with the pvp of DAoC and the crafting system of SWG for me that would be the perfect fantasy MMO. Vanguard came very close to it. But it was still stuck on using levels and skill vendors.
But for now the only MMO on the market that is trying new things, that listen to the player base. And does not cripple me if I cant play for a few days is Eve Online. CCP have got the mixture right with this one and Eve has spoiled me when I look at other MMO's as I see them as inferior products. Last night I logged in to Eve and saw there were 51000 other players all the same server as me. Thats 51000 people I could possibly interact with either through pvp, trading or just building simple diplomatic relations. What other MMO has those possiblities?
Yeah, but you can't just sate that need with a light avatar system. To create what those players want you essentially have to create an entire avatar-centric game from scratch within EVE. Doing that would be nearly as crazy as CU SWG.
A good product knows its audience and focuses on them. It doesn't try to be all things to all people inside a single game.
The only thing CCP should ever do to service those complaints is to create a second avatar-centric game (which they sort of are/were..)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This. MMOs rely too much on player interaction. If there are not enough players, no one will play it because it's a multiplayer game after all. It's a vicious circle.
What makes it even more difficult for MMOs is the subscription fee. Because people are playing every month in addition to the box price people expect A LOT more from the game. People will never come back to play a game just for lolz because they have to pay more in sub fees.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Tsw currently has NO end game raids, they are looking to add 1 10 man raid after launch though, the design of the game doesn't really support the wow style tiered raiding progression in that as you advance you start gaining in power mostly vertically, but as you get further into the game its more horizontal progression in the form of alternate builds and specialist gear.
Player interaction? Really? Just how antisocial has this generation become when "player interaction" is being considered a fault?
Seeing this made me sad
You really need to read again..thats is not what he was saying.
Actually I read it just fine, but I'll admit I should've only replied to MMOGamer, and not both since thats who my response was directed to. I also dont agree about subscription fees either. You pay for a game that continues to expand and change, it should be expected to pay a subscription fee. B2P games, I wouldn't expect constant updates and changes.