People are having the same "HoneyMoon" event all over again with TERA since they're only being given small "tastes" of the game with the CB events.
Most people that are coveting Tera as a good game have been playing it in Korea.
From an exhausted experience with MMO's I can tell you straight faced that TERA brings nothing new to the table EXCEPT for their combat system, and even THAT gets boring & repetitive after level 20.
Except the Server v Server, political system, GvG and deathmatch systems, BAMs. Bosses that are actually challenging.
Do NOT buy into the hype. TERA is EXACTLY like the WoW-Clone model we keep seeing reused over and over. Go to town A, get all the available quests from there, go kill X number of mobs or get X number of items. Once all quests are done in town A move to town B that is POINTED to by one of the last quests to be given in town A.
Questing is one style of gameplay you can do. You are not forced to quest in Tera, you can jump in a group and go grind BAM's. For people like me this appeals more then doing meaningless quests.
Rinse, Repeat, get max level in 2-4weeks, get bored. After 3months of eating ALL the content over & over you'll leave again for the next "Overly Hyped" product.
Can't tell you the longevity of the product, but with its political system, gvg, deathmatches, and interesting boss mechanics. I think if people look passed the style and can accept the combat system, it would last longer then other products on the market now.
Trust this from someone who has been there, seen it, done that, and continues to watch as the same crowed makes the SAME mistake over & over only to make forum posts such as: "I'm leaving, heres why...". Unfortunately, we already KNOW why you're leaving before opening your post in our browser. It just took you some time to see what most already saw, and avoided thereby saving them $105 ($60 box + 3 months sub).
Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience. There are those that just don't like the style of the game but that is everywhere.
Just like SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Alganon, Runes of Magic, Warhammer Online, etc. TERA brings NOTHING new, and continues to same old clone model.
You said this twice.
HOWEVER, if you're looking for just another "time waster" for a certain game you've had your eyes on (for me, it's Planetside II at the moment) & $105 isn't much for you to waste go right ahead & love TERA until it turns blue in the face !
I agree Tera will be a good game hopper for people really waiting out for something else. Its obviously not going to be the game for everyone.
Just please, STOP with the "TERA is AMAZING, and will win a duel with GW2 every time!" threads. I don't like GW2 any differently than I like TERA, and in fact I've got PLENTY of criticism for GW2 as well. However, this type of self-denial hype will only trick other people into biased hype.
No game is without its criticism. Planetside 2 is gonna be F2P and is under a terrible publisher.
Finally, remember that with ANY product (especially those you WANT to love) a healthy amount of criticism is a GOOD thing.
Unfortunately people do not know how to give criticism in healthy doses, even yourself. Your just trying to bait people with this post. Considering you have no further knowledge of the game past maybe lvl 10.
Thank you for reading,
-Faded
This is a very biased opinion you have. Research before spouting nonsense about a game you know nothing about.
You can't try to critiicise him and go on and say utter nonsense like 'Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience.'.
The ONLY people that say TERA is difficult are the people trying to put down tab targetting. I have yet to see one person dislike the game because its difficult.
I haven't read any outrageous claims from people who have played it at higher levels (and definitely for more than 3 months, mind you). Making the game sound like something it's not.
TERA is a niche game.
I don't see why there are so many people circling the title like a bunch of vultures, praying for it to flop. Most of those folks haven't even paid for a damn thing and played it past its first month (unlike TOR). Major schadenfreude?
Well first of all you cannot decide what is fun for others. They will decide that. Secondly, What does it take for a game to be good in your opinion, how long does one have to play a game for it to be considered good and not a time waster? 6 months? a year? 3 years?
I have the same belief that many others have in that I think its nearly impossible for a new MMO to hold our attention for as long as our first one. My first was FFXI online which I played for 10 months. I would have played longer if my HS grades werent suffering because of it. Hell, my friend played for like 4-5 years and I know that there are some dedicated WoW players who have played that for 5+ years. I honestly dont think a new MMO will come out that will retain my dedicated attention for longer than 6 months at most, but that doesnt mean they are terrible games or even uninovative.
Although I do agree that recent games have been suffering from a lack of innovation and evolution, there is only so much change an MMORPG can make before it turns into something else, and even if it does, is not garunteed to be the holy grail of games that can hold everyones attention for years to come.
On another note, I think one of the main reasons people get tired of MMO's is because they play them too often and for too long each time. Its a game like any game. I've been playing L4D and L4D2 since they came out and i still play them, but not for 8hrs a day 7 days a week.
You're not much better at NOT giving biased nonsense without doing research. I've researched a LOT about TERA, and nothing it has shown either in KOREA or the US CB's has shown any difference.
Also, you ARE forced to do questing for progression. Having the "freedom" of going off to kill random mobs for a TINY percentage of the XP you can get for doing quests is NOT "alternative methods of leveling". If you give people whom quest 20x more exp than people whom run around exploring & killing that IS forcing people to do quests. They literally punish you into questing for XP.
I tried both paths in CB1 for USA, when I dinged 7 just randomly killing monsters at a hardcore pace my friend dinged 15, and she was being lazy about her questing taking breaks to go make dinner, do laundry, etc.
Questing in the beginning is slower but get a good group to grind BAMs and you can level just as fast if not faster than someone whos questing. Youve also got instance rushing.
Sure killing random normal mobs won't be quicker. You also get bonus xp for being in a group, so 5man party grinding BAMs is very effective and I really enjoy it.
Also I like the normal themepark questing model, it is no problem for me, I'm very interested in the in depth guild roles this game may have. It'll be fun and I expect it to keep me entertained for a long time.
People aren't overhyping it, they just enjoyed it a lot more than you. This is the most fun i've had in an MMO, I've got many irl friends playing and it's going to be great.
People are having the same "HoneyMoon" event all over again with TERA since they're only being given small "tastes" of the game with the CB events.
Most people that are coveting Tera as a good game have been playing it in Korea.
From an exhausted experience with MMO's I can tell you straight faced that TERA brings nothing new to the table EXCEPT for their combat system, and even THAT gets boring & repetitive after level 20.
Except the Server v Server, political system, GvG and deathmatch systems, BAMs. Bosses that are actually challenging.
Do NOT buy into the hype. TERA is EXACTLY like the WoW-Clone model we keep seeing reused over and over. Go to town A, get all the available quests from there, go kill X number of mobs or get X number of items. Once all quests are done in town A move to town B that is POINTED to by one of the last quests to be given in town A.
Questing is one style of gameplay you can do. You are not forced to quest in Tera, you can jump in a group and go grind BAM's. For people like me this appeals more then doing meaningless quests.
Rinse, Repeat, get max level in 2-4weeks, get bored. After 3months of eating ALL the content over & over you'll leave again for the next "Overly Hyped" product.
Can't tell you the longevity of the product, but with its political system, gvg, deathmatches, and interesting boss mechanics. I think if people look passed the style and can accept the combat system, it would last longer then other products on the market now.
Trust this from someone who has been there, seen it, done that, and continues to watch as the same crowed makes the SAME mistake over & over only to make forum posts such as: "I'm leaving, heres why...". Unfortunately, we already KNOW why you're leaving before opening your post in our browser. It just took you some time to see what most already saw, and avoided thereby saving them $105 ($60 box + 3 months sub).
Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience. There are those that just don't like the style of the game but that is everywhere.
Just like SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Alganon, Runes of Magic, Warhammer Online, etc. TERA brings NOTHING new, and continues to same old clone model.
You said this twice.
HOWEVER, if you're looking for just another "time waster" for a certain game you've had your eyes on (for me, it's Planetside II at the moment) & $105 isn't much for you to waste go right ahead & love TERA until it turns blue in the face !
I agree Tera will be a good game hopper for people really waiting out for something else. Its obviously not going to be the game for everyone.
Just please, STOP with the "TERA is AMAZING, and will win a duel with GW2 every time!" threads. I don't like GW2 any differently than I like TERA, and in fact I've got PLENTY of criticism for GW2 as well. However, this type of self-denial hype will only trick other people into biased hype.
No game is without its criticism. Planetside 2 is gonna be F2P and is under a terrible publisher.
Finally, remember that with ANY product (especially those you WANT to love) a healthy amount of criticism is a GOOD thing.
Unfortunately people do not know how to give criticism in healthy doses, even yourself. Your just trying to bait people with this post. Considering you have no further knowledge of the game past maybe lvl 10.
Thank you for reading,
-Faded
This is a very biased opinion you have. Research before spouting nonsense about a game you know nothing about.
You can't try to critiicise him and go on and say utter nonsense like 'Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience.'.
The ONLY people that say TERA is difficult are the people trying to put down tab targetting. I have yet to see one person dislike the game because its difficult.
Agreed, !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
GW2 MIGHT have a chance at retaining a large number past 3months, however I've not even tried the game yet beta or otherwise to give a definitive answer.
You do realize that gw2 has no subscription? Therefor once you buy gw2 you are forever part of it unless you sell account.
Anyone ever stop and think that people stayed with the "old" games for longer because
A) there was far less variety, hell at one point you really had two options - EQ or UO.
the genre was so much smaller pre-WoW that you had a release every year to couple of years, where as now it seems like a new MMO comes out every 3-4 months.
Long story short, there is a lot more competition.
I also think that the subscription model is going to be a thing of the past - there is simply too much competition, too many new games too often for a lot of people to commit to more than a few months in a single game.
The population that MMOs target has become fickle - we are too critical, too easily excited, too impatient...
I don't think this cycle of new game hype then dissapointment then back to our old stand-bys is ever going to end.
The era of the multi-year MMO subscription retention is over - as long as you can retain enough to keep the lights on I don't think we'll ever see another WoW.
Devs are and should (due to the way WE are) plan on multi-million first month or two then sub 100k retention long term.
Make your money back, keep supplying a service for your dedicated players, write off the rest of us - the fickle majority.
GW2 MIGHT have a chance at retaining a large number past 3months, however I've not even tried the game yet beta or otherwise to give a definitive answer.
You do realize that gw2 has no subscription? Therefor once you buy gw2 you are forever part of it unless you sell account.
Very good point
TERA has ways to play it for free aswell if you want to, Chrono Scrolls can be bought from the auction house with ingame currency and grant you 30 days of gametime. I am planning on just farming and buying these.
People are having the same "HoneyMoon" event all over again with TERA since they're only being given small "tastes" of the game with the CB events.
Most people that are coveting Tera as a good game have been playing it in Korea.
From an exhausted experience with MMO's I can tell you straight faced that TERA brings nothing new to the table EXCEPT for their combat system, and even THAT gets boring & repetitive after level 20.
Except the Server v Server, political system, GvG and deathmatch systems, BAMs. Bosses that are actually challenging.
Do NOT buy into the hype. TERA is EXACTLY like the WoW-Clone model we keep seeing reused over and over. Go to town A, get all the available quests from there, go kill X number of mobs or get X number of items. Once all quests are done in town A move to town B that is POINTED to by one of the last quests to be given in town A.
Questing is one style of gameplay you can do. You are not forced to quest in Tera, you can jump in a group and go grind BAM's. For people like me this appeals more then doing meaningless quests.
Rinse, Repeat, get max level in 2-4weeks, get bored. After 3months of eating ALL the content over & over you'll leave again for the next "Overly Hyped" product.
Can't tell you the longevity of the product, but with its political system, gvg, deathmatches, and interesting boss mechanics. I think if people look passed the style and can accept the combat system, it would last longer then other products on the market now.
Trust this from someone who has been there, seen it, done that, and continues to watch as the same crowed makes the SAME mistake over & over only to make forum posts such as: "I'm leaving, heres why...". Unfortunately, we already KNOW why you're leaving before opening your post in our browser. It just took you some time to see what most already saw, and avoided thereby saving them $105 ($60 box + 3 months sub).
Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience. There are those that just don't like the style of the game but that is everywhere.
Just like SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Alganon, Runes of Magic, Warhammer Online, etc. TERA brings NOTHING new, and continues to same old clone model.
You said this twice.
>For a reason
HOWEVER, if you're looking for just another "time waster" for a certain game you've had your eyes on (for me, it's Planetside II at the moment) & $105 isn't much for you to waste go right ahead & love TERA until it turns blue in the face !
I agree Tera will be a good game hopper for people really waiting out for something else. Its obviously not going to be the game for everyone.
Just please, STOP with the "TERA is AMAZING, and will win a duel with GW2 every time!" threads. I don't like GW2 any differently than I like TERA, and in fact I've got PLENTY of criticism for GW2 as well. However, this type of self-denial hype will only trick other people into biased hype.
No game is without its criticism. Planetside 2 is gonna be F2P and is under a terrible publisher.
>I agree SOE is a horrible publisher, however I've seen the developers they put on Planetside2 are literally trying to break SOE's bad rep, and do Planetside 2 justice. Talk about Biased :P?
Finally, remember that with ANY product (especially those you WANT to love) a healthy amount of criticism is a GOOD thing.
Unfortunately people do not know how to give criticism in healthy doses, even yourself. Your just trying to bait people with this post. Considering you have no further knowledge of the game past maybe lvl 10.
Thank you for reading,
-Faded
This is a very biased opinion you have. Research before spouting nonsense about a game you know nothing about.
You're not much better at NOT giving biased nonsense without doing research. I've researched a LOT about TERA, and nothing it has shown either in KOREA or the US CB's has shown any difference.
You havn't done any research that much is evident. No need to try and convince yourself you have, anyone that has been following Tera even a minute bit could see this is plain as day.
Also, you ARE forced to do questing for progression. Having the "freedom" of going off to kill random mobs for a TINY percentage of the XP you can get for doing quests is NOT "alternative methods of leveling". If you give people whom quest 20x more exp than people whom run around exploring & killing that IS forcing people to do quests. They literally punish you into questing for XP.
This is where it becomes evident. You do not kill normal mobs. You get in a group and kill BAM's. Or you can go try to solo those BAM's. Normal mobs =/= BAM's.
I tried both paths in CB1 for USA, when I dinged 7 just randomly killing monsters at a hardcore pace my friend dinged 15, and she was being lazy about her questing taking breaks to go make dinner, do laundry, etc.
So your basing your experience off the starting island... awesome.
Biased opinion is biased.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
GW2 MIGHT have a chance at retaining a large number past 3months, however I've not even tried the game yet beta or otherwise to give a definitive answer.
You do realize that gw2 has no subscription? Therefor once you buy gw2 you are forever part of it unless you sell account.
Retaining active players isn't about subscription numbers, and if GW2 retains its player count after 3months it will continue to make money from DLCs, expansions, cash shop items, etc.
So player numbers after 3months is JUST as important as a sub game !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
GW2 MIGHT have a chance at retaining a large number past 3months, however I've not even tried the game yet beta or otherwise to give a definitive answer.
You do realize that gw2 has no subscription? Therefor once you buy gw2 you are forever part of it unless you sell account.
Retaining active players isn't about subscription numbers, and if GW2 retains its player count after 3months it will continue to make money from DLCs, expansions, cash shop items, etc.
So player numbers after 3months is JUST as important as a sub game !
GW1 seems to be retaining players much better than my other P2P games. While GW1 obviously wasnt as busy a month ago as it was 2 years ago, it was still very lively. I feel GW2 will take a better path as its literally Guild wars 2. I expect that it will keep a lot of its players due to the B2P alone, but the fact that GW1 has done so well and GW2 is essentially an upgraded version of it, I'm not worried about retention.
Please stop doing it, you will NOT succeed in what has been the "Norm" for years. Games are changing, people change. Just have to wait for what you want to come along.
This ^
This is what happens when anything becomes popular.
Movies, television, music...
I might think American Idol and other reality TV is pretty f-ing stupid, and Walking Dead / Game of Thrones are pretty f-ing awesome - but as long as people are enjoying what they enjoy... so be it. That's life.
They can have their American Idol, Michael Bay films, Glee, and pop music.
I'll pass.
Eventually, as with movies/music/television... in the MMO genre something good will come along for those of us who just don't and can't enjoy the popular thing.
We can sit around and bitch about it like losers until it happens, we can be proactive and support companies and games we enjoy, or we can take ourselves back to school and make them ourselves.
People are having the same "HoneyMoon" event all over again with TERA since they're only being given small "tastes" of the game with the CB events.
Most people that are coveting Tera as a good game have been playing it in Korea.
From an exhausted experience with MMO's I can tell you straight faced that TERA brings nothing new to the table EXCEPT for their combat system, and even THAT gets boring & repetitive after level 20.
Except the Server v Server, political system, GvG and deathmatch systems, BAMs. Bosses that are actually challenging.
Do NOT buy into the hype. TERA is EXACTLY like the WoW-Clone model we keep seeing reused over and over. Go to town A, get all the available quests from there, go kill X number of mobs or get X number of items. Once all quests are done in town A move to town B that is POINTED to by one of the last quests to be given in town A.
Questing is one style of gameplay you can do. You are not forced to quest in Tera, you can jump in a group and go grind BAM's. For people like me this appeals more then doing meaningless quests.
Rinse, Repeat, get max level in 2-4weeks, get bored. After 3months of eating ALL the content over & over you'll leave again for the next "Overly Hyped" product.
Can't tell you the longevity of the product, but with its political system, gvg, deathmatches, and interesting boss mechanics. I think if people look passed the style and can accept the combat system, it would last longer then other products on the market now.
Trust this from someone who has been there, seen it, done that, and continues to watch as the same crowed makes the SAME mistake over & over only to make forum posts such as: "I'm leaving, heres why...". Unfortunately, we already KNOW why you're leaving before opening your post in our browser. It just took you some time to see what most already saw, and avoided thereby saving them $105 ($60 box + 3 months sub).
Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience. There are those that just don't like the style of the game but that is everywhere.
Just like SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Alganon, Runes of Magic, Warhammer Online, etc. TERA brings NOTHING new, and continues to same old clone model.
You said this twice.
HOWEVER, if you're looking for just another "time waster" for a certain game you've had your eyes on (for me, it's Planetside II at the moment) & $105 isn't much for you to waste go right ahead & love TERA until it turns blue in the face !
I agree Tera will be a good game hopper for people really waiting out for something else. Its obviously not going to be the game for everyone.
Just please, STOP with the "TERA is AMAZING, and will win a duel with GW2 every time!" threads. I don't like GW2 any differently than I like TERA, and in fact I've got PLENTY of criticism for GW2 as well. However, this type of self-denial hype will only trick other people into biased hype.
No game is without its criticism. Planetside 2 is gonna be F2P and is under a terrible publisher.
Finally, remember that with ANY product (especially those you WANT to love) a healthy amount of criticism is a GOOD thing.
Unfortunately people do not know how to give criticism in healthy doses, even yourself. Your just trying to bait people with this post. Considering you have no further knowledge of the game past maybe lvl 10.
Thank you for reading,
-Faded
This is a very biased opinion you have. Research before spouting nonsense about a game you know nothing about.
You can't try to critiicise him and go on and say utter nonsense like 'Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience.'.
The ONLY people that say TERA is difficult are the people trying to put down tab targetting. I have yet to see one person dislike the game because its difficult.
Agreed, !
Then you obviously were not in the beta, or you just weren't watching general chat.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Anyone ever stop and think that people stayed with the "old" games for longer because
A) there was far less variety, hell at one point you really had two options - EQ or UO.
the genre was so much smaller pre-WoW that you had a release every year to couple of years, where as now it seems like a new MMO comes out every 3-4 months.
Long story short, there is a lot more competition.
I also think that the subscription model is going to be a thing of the past - there is simply too much competition, too many new games too often for a lot of people to commit to more than a few months in a single game.
The population that MMOs target has become fickle - we are too critical, too easily excited, too impatient...
I don't think this cycle of new game hype then dissapointment then back to our old stand-bys is ever going to end.
The era of the multi-year MMO subscription retention is over - as long as you can retain enough to keep the lights on I don't think we'll ever see another WoW.
Devs are and should (due to the way WE are) plan on multi-million first month or two then sub 100k retention long term.
Make your money back, keep supplying a service for your dedicated players, write off the rest of us - the fickle majority.
While I do agree with you to a point. There is a point to which the market is more to blame than the players themselves. Once developers started copying WoW in order to gain some of their success it started the endless cycle of oversaturation & player disappointment that has CAUSED players to become so fickle as we see today.
I also agree that developers should start planning on large launch numbers, and small retention over time IF they only plan on getting a good inititial investment from their money.
Developers should STOP thinking so "short term" with regards to their product, and need to think LONG TERM goals in order to keep their product with the highest retention numbers it can withstand. This doesn't come with "Themepark" models, and only comes from "Sandbox" models as a Sandbox's endgame is a continuation of the game as a whole.
Exploration, achievement, progression, evolution, and dynamic interaction are "EndGame" for Sandboxes. EvE is a fine example of this development plan. Albeit EvE is still a HIGHLY "niche" product they've retained a very good subscriber base. Right now EvE is sitting at roughly 50,000 concurrent players online RIGHT NOW on ONE single "shard". Where as xFire has SWTOR around 7,982 right now. I'll admit xFire isn't the best "popularity" resource, but even multiplying that number by 3 doesn't put them near EvE right now. It simply means EvE has a more "active" subscriber base than SWTOR if anything.
However, I don't agree with the "Variety" difference from "back then" as opposed to now. People didn't think as MMOs being their own "genre" for video gaming back then. So MMOs had to compete with Non-MMO titles like Diablo2 etc. Nowadays MMOs almost have their own entirely unique fanbase that ONLY player MMOs as their "primary" source of entertainment for online gaming. Now I won't profess to know how influential games like Mass Effect 3 would have against WoW subscriber numbers, but at the end of the day no one cares about ME3 if they're an MMO player UNLIKE how it was when the MMO market was respectively smaller.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Originally posted by Fadedbomb Originally posted by Vegetto I see MMOs about progression and an actual investment of time. I like to think that the few hours i spent in one actually progressed my character or place in the world, be it socially or statistically. If i think that i may only play a MMO for 1-2 months, i will not bother. Tera looks great, GW2 looks great, neither have the long term tools to make them playabale for me past 3 months, therefore i won't bother, single player games piss on MMOs for quality every time, so why bother. I know in both of nthe aforementioned, it will be me, grinding with a few other faceless drones, then grouping with other drones later on for raids. Depth is what i want at end of day.
THIS ^
I can tell Vegetto has been around as long as I have with MMOs . The "older" generation of gamers have pretty much this attitude unless they're hard-core casual players that only hop on a game once or twice a week because their life demands so much of their time (kids, work, family activities, work activities, vacations, 2nd jobs, etc).
Heck, I even know some generally casual players whom have the same mindset, and don't bother with a game if they don't see longevitiy to them.
I think it's just a progression of maturity. From the outside i may waste alot of my time, but i do value it. I can no longer do things for the sake of it anymore and i want to see something from any time i invest in something. Forums i get knowledge and opinion, work i get money and experience, games i should get just entertainment.
However, since MMORPGs came about and offered a virtual reward for my time spent, i now have that as the requirement. The issue with modern games is that this bar is set very low and i am given a very linear and obvious time sink. I want a virtual world to escape the drudgery of the real one and with that, i value social interactivity, self-development and achievement. None of these are apparent in the current crop of MMOs, where you have barely any social tools, your self-development is getting slightly better gear stats and you achievement is getting that gear...just like everyone else.
In the older class of MMOs, people would recognise you, by name, you would bump into people at social hubs, chat, quest, then fend off enemies invading your town. You would have a friendslist of the best crafters, bookmark waypoints for good resources you have just found, plan social events, hunt for rare animals for that special crafting component, ride off into unknown areas and come across something you didn't know existed. You had a house, you had a town where everyone gathered, you had enemies to fight, you had a reputation to build. Now you are just a number.
This is why the sandbox vs. themepark argument persists, as you can only go on the rides for so long, until eventually you want to be given a choice and make your own activities. Alas, the sheep race is very much vogue these days, the innovators and risk takers have been sent off into the sunset and shot.
I hold out hope for Secret World offering a truly different experience (depending just how on rails it is) and i am holding out judgement as so little info is given on it. But i think the holy grail still remains ArcheAge.
People are having the same "HoneyMoon" event all over again with TERA since they're only being given small "tastes" of the game with the CB events.
From an exhausted experience with MMO's I can tell you straight faced that TERA brings nothing new to the table EXCEPT for their combat system, and even THAT gets boring & repetitive after level 20.
Do NOT buy into the hype. TERA is EXACTLY like the WoW-Clone model we keep seeing reused over and over. Go to town A, get all the available quests from there, go kill X number of mobs or get X number of items. Once all quests are done in town A move to town B that is POINTED to by one of the last quests to be given in town A.
Rinse, Repeat, get max level in 2-4weeks, get bored. After 3months of eating ALL the content over & over you'll leave again for the next "Overly Hyped" product.
Trust this from someone who has been there, seen it, done that, and continues to watch as the same crowed makes the SAME mistake over & over only to make forum posts such as: "I'm leaving, heres why...". Unfortunately, we already KNOW why you're leaving before opening your post in our browser. It just took you some time to see what most already saw, and avoided thereby saving them $105 ($60 box + 3 months sub).
Just like SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Alganon, Runes of Magic, Warhammer Online, etc. TERA brings NOTHING new, and continues to same old clone model.
HOWEVER, if you're looking for just another "time waster" for a certain game you've had your eyes on (for me, it's Planetside II at the moment) & $105 isn't much for you to waste go right ahead & love TERA until it turns blue in the face !
Just please, STOP with the "TERA is AMAZING, and will win a duel with GW2 every time!" threads. I don't like GW2 any differently than I like TERA, and in fact I've got PLENTY of criticism for GW2 as well. However, this type of self-denial hype will only trick other people into biased hype.
Finally, remember that with ANY product (especially those you WANT to love) a healthy amount of criticism is a GOOD thing.
Thank you for reading,
-Faded
Couldnt agree with you more. TERA is another game in a long line of Over - Hyped MMO's that promise alot but offer nothing truely substantive over whats being played right now, or for that matter 7 years ago.
I'll be passing on yet another failed game (one that cant even do well in its home country lol) and wiating on something truely game changing, innovative and fresh like TSW or GW2.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I see MMOs about progression and an actual investment of time. I like to think that the few hours i spent in one actually progressed my character or place in the world, be it socially or statistically. If i think that i may only play a MMO for 1-2 months, i will not bother.
Tera looks great, GW2 looks great, neither have the long term tools to make them playabale for me past 3 months, therefore i won't bother, single player games piss on MMOs for quality every time, so why bother. I know in both of nthe aforementioned, it will be me, grinding with a few other faceless drones, then grouping with other drones later on for raids. Depth is what i want at end of day.
THIS ^
I can tell Vegetto has been around as long as I have with MMOs . The "older" generation of gamers have pretty much this attitude unless they're hard-core casual players that only hop on a game once or twice a week because their life demands so much of their time (kids, work, family activities, work activities, vacations, 2nd jobs, etc).
Heck, I even know some generally casual players whom have the same mindset, and don't bother with a game if they don't see longevitiy to them.
I think it's just a progression of maturity. From the outside i may waste alot of my time, but i do value it. I can no longer do things for the sake of it anymore and i want to see something from any time i invest in something. Forums i get knowledge and opinion, work i get money and experience, games i should get just entertainment.
However, since MMORPGs came about and offered a virtual reward for my time spent, i now have that as the requirement. The issue with modern games is that this bar is set very low and i am given a very linear and obvious time sink. I want a virtual world to escape the drudgery of the real one and with that, i value social interactivity, self-development and achievement. None of these are apparent in the current crop of MMOs, where you have barely any social tools, your self-development is getting slightly better gear stats and you achievement is getting that gear...just like everyone else.
In the older class of MMOs, people would recognise you, by name, you would bump into people at social hubs, chat, quest, then fend off enemies invading your town. You would have a friendslist of the best crafters, bookmark waypoints for good resources you have just found, plan social events, hunt for rare animals for that special crafting component, ride off into unknown areas and come across something you didn't know existed. You had a house, you had a town where everyone gathered, you had enemies to fight, you had a reputation to build. Now you are just a number.
This is why the sandbox vs. themepark argument persists, as you can only go on the rides for so long, until eventually you want to be given a choice and make your own activities. Alas, the sheep race is very much vogue these days, the innovators and risk takers have been sent off into the sunset and shot.
I hold out hope for Secret World offering a truly different experience (depending just how on rails it is) and i am holding out judgement as so little info is given on it. But i think the holy grail still remains ArcheAge.
Do I taste a hint of SWG Pre-CU in that post :P?
Also, as for SecretWorld I'm not holding my breath until I get my hands on that one either for Closed or Open Beta. Their developer has been proven in the past to not care one single bit about the quality of their product, or the longevity that it should require. Not to mention the CONSTANT lies on the Business side of things in order to "trick" you into buying a box for launch just to find out you were hornswaggled.
As for ArcheAge I've still got it on my radar, but ever since I hear it was a "Hybrid" of Themepark & Sandbox I've become weary. Admittedly, their Naval Combat looks very fun !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
People are having the same "HoneyMoon" event all over again with TERA since they're only being given small "tastes" of the game with the CB events.
From an exhausted experience with MMO's I can tell you straight faced that TERA brings nothing new to the table EXCEPT for their combat system, and even THAT gets boring & repetitive after level 20.
Do NOT buy into the hype. TERA is EXACTLY like the WoW-Clone model we keep seeing reused over and over. Go to town A, get all the available quests from there, go kill X number of mobs or get X number of items. Once all quests are done in town A move to town B that is POINTED to by one of the last quests to be given in town A.
Rinse, Repeat, get max level in 2-4weeks, get bored. After 3months of eating ALL the content over & over you'll leave again for the next "Overly Hyped" product.
Trust this from someone who has been there, seen it, done that, and continues to watch as the same crowed makes the SAME mistake over & over only to make forum posts such as: "I'm leaving, heres why...". Unfortunately, we already KNOW why you're leaving before opening your post in our browser. It just took you some time to see what most already saw, and avoided thereby saving them $105 ($60 box + 3 months sub).
Just like SWTOR, Rift, Aion, Alganon, Runes of Magic, Warhammer Online, etc. TERA brings NOTHING new, and continues to same old clone model.
HOWEVER, if you're looking for just another "time waster" for a certain game you've had your eyes on (for me, it's Planetside II at the moment) & $105 isn't much for you to waste go right ahead & love TERA until it turns blue in the face !
Just please, STOP with the "TERA is AMAZING, and will win a duel with GW2 every time!" threads. I don't like GW2 any differently than I like TERA, and in fact I've got PLENTY of criticism for GW2 as well. However, this type of self-denial hype will only trick other people into biased hype.
Finally, remember that with ANY product (especially those you WANT to love) a healthy amount of criticism is a GOOD thing.
Thank you for reading,
-Faded
Couldnt agree with you more. TERA is another game in a long line of Over - Hyped MMO's that promise alot but offer nothing truely substantive over whats being played right now, or for that matter 7 years ago.
I'll be passing on yet another failed game (one that cant even do well in its home country lol) and wiating on something truely game changing, innovative and fresh like TSW or GW2.
That's what gets me about TERA. It failed REALLY hardcore in Korea, and now is being re-released with all the content with more tacked on for the Western released. It's almost like the developers used their own people as a "paid tester" base in order to TEST their product & get much needed revenue to continue the product.
With that said, I STILL do plan to try US CB2 for their PvP server, however as it stands right now I'm not interested in TERA as a long-term product.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Have any of you ever stopped to think that some people have never played WoW or any of those WoW Clones that you mentioned so the quest based gameplay of TERA is something new to them? Also have you ever stopped to think that some people acutally like the WoW type of gameplay that you dont like? If you dont like something why be upset at it when you simply dont have to play it or read about it? These threads are just so pointless and I dont see why the moderators let people make them every day.
While I do agree with you to a point. There is a point to which the market is more to blame than the players themselves. Once developers started copying WoW in order to gain some of their success it started the endless cycle of oversaturation & player disappointment that has CAUSED players to become so fickle as we see today.
Developers should STOP thinking so "short term" with regards to their product, and need to think LONG TERM goals in order to keep their product with the highest retention numbers it can withstand. This doesn't come with "Themepark" models, and only comes from "Sandbox" models as a Sandbox's endgame is a continuation of the game as a whole.
Exploration, achievement, progression, evolution, and dynamic interaction are "EndGame" for Sandboxes. EvE is a fine example of this development plan. Albeit EvE is still a HIGHLY "niche" product they've retained a very good subscriber base. Right now EvE is sitting at roughly 50,000 concurrent players online RIGHT NOW on ONE single "shard". Where as xFire has SWTOR around 7,982 right now. I'll admit xFire isn't the best "popularity" resource, but even multiplying that number by 3 doesn't put them near EvE right now. It simply means EvE has a more "active" subscriber base than SWTOR if anything.
1. Market would not exist without the players. 1st arguement is illogical.
There is a reason popular, successful things are copied - because they are popular and successful - players are the market. The market is the players.
Burn out due to repetition is a valid position to take, but you have to remember that most new products that deviate from the norms fail.
This is true in all business. Do a google search for why most new products fail. You'll find all kinds of research.
2. Short term thinking is a direct result of market factors. You can't change how you look at the market until the market changes. The market won't change until lightning strikes again. It's happened once or twice, but this genre is still very young.
3. Any attempt at arguing that cites xfire numbers has already failed.
4. Most players just want a good game. What do they get from WoW? Acheivement, progression, evolution, dynamic interaction. Same words, applied in a different way. Reason for success? All those "highly niche" things were problems - things that many, many people who didn't play MMOs said "we don't play because of X" and also the same things that active MMO players said "we don't like X in our game."
I wish I could go back in time and show people what kind of stuff people said about MMOs before WoW. Would be enlightening.
Have any of you ever stopped to think that some people have never played WoW or any of those WoW Clones that you mentioned so the quest based gameplay of TERA is something new to them? Also have you ever stopped to think that some people acutally like the WoW type of gameplay that you dont like? If you dont like something why be upset at it when you simply put you dont have to play it or read about it? These threads are just so pointless and I dont see why the moderators let people make them every day.
It's depressing we have to keep dealing with these people really. True words my friend.
Originally posted by Fadedbomb Originally posted by BadSpock Anyone ever stop and think that people stayed with the "old" games for longer because A) there was far less variety, hell at one point you really had two options - EQ or UO. the genre was so much smaller pre-WoW that you had a release every year to couple of years, where as now it seems like a new MMO comes out every 3-4 months. Long story short, there is a lot more competition. I also think that the subscription model is going to be a thing of the past - there is simply too much competition, too many new games too often for a lot of people to commit to more than a few months in a single game. The population that MMOs target has become fickle - we are too critical, too easily excited, too impatient... I don't think this cycle of new game hype then dissapointment then back to our old stand-bys is ever going to end. The era of the multi-year MMO subscription retention is over - as long as you can retain enough to keep the lights on I don't think we'll ever see another WoW. Devs are and should (due to the way WE are) plan on multi-million first month or two then sub 100k retention long term. Make your money back, keep supplying a service for your dedicated players, write off the rest of us - the fickle majority.
While I do agree with you to a point. There is a point to which the market is more to blame than the players themselves. Once developers started copying WoW in order to gain some of their success it started the endless cycle of oversaturation & player disappointment that has CAUSED players to become so fickle as we see today.
I also agree that developers should start planning on large launch numbers, and small retention over time IF they only plan on getting a good inititial investment from their money.
Developers should STOP thinking so "short term" with regards to their product, and need to think LONG TERM goals in order to keep their product with the highest retention numbers it can withstand. This doesn't come with "Themepark" models, and only comes from "Sandbox" models as a Sandbox's endgame is a continuation of the game as a whole.
Exploration, achievement, progression, evolution, and dynamic interaction are "EndGame" for Sandboxes. EvE is a fine example of this development plan. Albeit EvE is still a HIGHLY "niche" product they've retained a very good subscriber base. Right now EvE is sitting at roughly 50,000 concurrent players online RIGHT NOW on ONE single "shard". Where as xFire has SWTOR around 7,982 right now. I'll admit xFire isn't the best "popularity" resource, but even multiplying that number by 3 doesn't put them near EvE right now. It simply means EvE has a more "active" subscriber base than SWTOR if anything.
However, I don't agree with the "Variety" difference from "back then" as opposed to now. People didn't think as MMOs being their own "genre" for video gaming back then. So MMOs had to compete with Non-MMO titles like Diablo2 etc. Nowadays MMOs almost have their own entirely unique fanbase that ONLY player MMOs as their "primary" source of entertainment for online gaming. Now I won't profess to know how influential games like Mass Effect 3 would have against WoW subscriber numbers, but at the end of the day no one cares about ME3 if they're an MMO player UNLIKE how it was when the MMO market was respectively smaller.
I just wanted to point out that there are people that like themepark style games and then there are people that like sandbox style games. You are never going to be able to make a game that appeals to both as each one has a completely different focus and target of people.
Also just to point it out there.. I care about ME3 and I've been playing MMO's since muds back in high school.
Gotta love how OP is completely ignoring my previous posts now, because he knows he has no counter.
I agree Tera isnt the be all end all. It has its faults, but it is a step in the right direction. It didn't fail in Korea... its not doin as well as AION, but it didn't fail. The main reason its not as popular over there is because there is no grind in the sense of L2 or AION.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Well... For all of you who are on a Crusade to Save all of the rest us from Ourselves, you may have good intentions, but don't you have something better to do with your time?? I speak only for myself, but I must say that this constant drum beat of doom and gloom, and warnings has grown OLD.
I play these games as a HOBBY. As time wasters/fillers in between the rest of the things I do in a typical day. All that I ask is that the game I'm playing be entertaining. I'm not at all adverse to spending money on my hobbies. The box cost and three or more months of subscription is the very least of my concern.
I do not regret in the least the money I spent on SWTOR (box and one month), because over all it was entertaining (until the various flaws added up to the point of ending my sub, after I had my trooper to level 50).
If that happens with TERA, then so be it. Given what I've seen so far, I doubt it will, but one never knows about these things.
But PLEASE, for the sake of the gracious Lord Piglet, enough of the warnings, and dire predictions of Doom...
Comments
You can't try to critiicise him and go on and say utter nonsense like 'Most people that end up leaving Tera, are the people that can't cut a difficult experience.'.
The ONLY people that say TERA is difficult are the people trying to put down tab targetting. I have yet to see one person dislike the game because its difficult.
I haven't read any outrageous claims from people who have played it at higher levels (and definitely for more than 3 months, mind you). Making the game sound like something it's not.
TERA is a niche game.
I don't see why there are so many people circling the title like a bunch of vultures, praying for it to flop. Most of those folks haven't even paid for a damn thing and played it past its first month (unlike TOR). Major schadenfreude?
Well first of all you cannot decide what is fun for others. They will decide that. Secondly, What does it take for a game to be good in your opinion, how long does one have to play a game for it to be considered good and not a time waster? 6 months? a year? 3 years?
I have the same belief that many others have in that I think its nearly impossible for a new MMO to hold our attention for as long as our first one. My first was FFXI online which I played for 10 months. I would have played longer if my HS grades werent suffering because of it. Hell, my friend played for like 4-5 years and I know that there are some dedicated WoW players who have played that for 5+ years. I honestly dont think a new MMO will come out that will retain my dedicated attention for longer than 6 months at most, but that doesnt mean they are terrible games or even uninovative.
Although I do agree that recent games have been suffering from a lack of innovation and evolution, there is only so much change an MMORPG can make before it turns into something else, and even if it does, is not garunteed to be the holy grail of games that can hold everyones attention for years to come.
On another note, I think one of the main reasons people get tired of MMO's is because they play them too often and for too long each time. Its a game like any game. I've been playing L4D and L4D2 since they came out and i still play them, but not for 8hrs a day 7 days a week.
MMOs Played: FFXI,Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, GW2
Playing:None
Waiting For: Wildstar, The Repopulation, Archeage, TESO, Warhammer 40K:EC, EQN
Questing in the beginning is slower but get a good group to grind BAMs and you can level just as fast if not faster than someone whos questing. Youve also got instance rushing.
Sure killing random normal mobs won't be quicker. You also get bonus xp for being in a group, so 5man party grinding BAMs is very effective and I really enjoy it.
Also I like the normal themepark questing model, it is no problem for me, I'm very interested in the in depth guild roles this game may have. It'll be fun and I expect it to keep me entertained for a long time.
People aren't overhyping it, they just enjoyed it a lot more than you. This is the most fun i've had in an MMO, I've got many irl friends playing and it's going to be great.
Agreed,
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
You do realize that gw2 has no subscription? Therefor once you buy gw2 you are forever part of it
unless you sell account.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
Anyone ever stop and think that people stayed with the "old" games for longer because
A) there was far less variety, hell at one point you really had two options - EQ or UO.
Long story short, there is a lot more competition.
I also think that the subscription model is going to be a thing of the past - there is simply too much competition, too many new games too often for a lot of people to commit to more than a few months in a single game.
The population that MMOs target has become fickle - we are too critical, too easily excited, too impatient...
I don't think this cycle of new game hype then dissapointment then back to our old stand-bys is ever going to end.
The era of the multi-year MMO subscription retention is over - as long as you can retain enough to keep the lights on I don't think we'll ever see another WoW.
Devs are and should (due to the way WE are) plan on multi-million first month or two then sub 100k retention long term.
Make your money back, keep supplying a service for your dedicated players, write off the rest of us - the fickle majority.
Honestly, a three month "time waster" wouldn't be so bad. It would triple the amount of time I've enjoyed in most other games.
Very good point
TERA has ways to play it for free aswell if you want to, Chrono Scrolls can be bought from the auction house with ingame currency and grant you 30 days of gametime. I am planning on just farming and buying these.
Biased opinion is biased.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Retaining active players isn't about subscription numbers, and if GW2 retains its player count after 3months it will continue to make money from DLCs, expansions, cash shop items, etc.
So player numbers after 3months is JUST as important as a sub game
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
GW1 seems to be retaining players much better than my other P2P games. While GW1 obviously wasnt as busy a month ago as it was 2 years ago, it was still very lively. I feel GW2 will take a better path as its literally Guild wars 2. I expect that it will keep a lot of its players due to the B2P alone, but the fact that GW1 has done so well and GW2 is essentially an upgraded version of it, I'm not worried about retention.
This ^
This is what happens when anything becomes popular.
Movies, television, music...
I might think American Idol and other reality TV is pretty f-ing stupid, and Walking Dead / Game of Thrones are pretty f-ing awesome - but as long as people are enjoying what they enjoy... so be it. That's life.
They can have their American Idol, Michael Bay films, Glee, and pop music.
I'll pass.
Eventually, as with movies/music/television... in the MMO genre something good will come along for those of us who just don't and can't enjoy the popular thing.
We can sit around and bitch about it like losers until it happens, we can be proactive and support companies and games we enjoy, or we can take ourselves back to school and make them ourselves.
Then you obviously were not in the beta, or you just weren't watching general chat.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
While I do agree with you to a point. There is a point to which the market is more to blame than the players themselves. Once developers started copying WoW in order to gain some of their success it started the endless cycle of oversaturation & player disappointment that has CAUSED players to become so fickle as we see today.
I also agree that developers should start planning on large launch numbers, and small retention over time IF they only plan on getting a good inititial investment from their money.
Developers should STOP thinking so "short term" with regards to their product, and need to think LONG TERM goals in order to keep their product with the highest retention numbers it can withstand. This doesn't come with "Themepark" models, and only comes from "Sandbox" models as a Sandbox's endgame is a continuation of the game as a whole.
Exploration, achievement, progression, evolution, and dynamic interaction are "EndGame" for Sandboxes. EvE is a fine example of this development plan. Albeit EvE is still a HIGHLY "niche" product they've retained a very good subscriber base. Right now EvE is sitting at roughly 50,000 concurrent players online RIGHT NOW on ONE single "shard". Where as xFire has SWTOR around 7,982 right now. I'll admit xFire isn't the best "popularity" resource, but even multiplying that number by 3 doesn't put them near EvE right now. It simply means EvE has a more "active" subscriber base than SWTOR if anything.
However, I don't agree with the "Variety" difference from "back then" as opposed to now. People didn't think as MMOs being their own "genre" for video gaming back then. So MMOs had to compete with Non-MMO titles like Diablo2 etc. Nowadays MMOs almost have their own entirely unique fanbase that ONLY player MMOs as their "primary" source of entertainment for online gaming. Now I won't profess to know how influential games like Mass Effect 3 would have against WoW subscriber numbers, but at the end of the day no one cares about ME3 if they're an MMO player UNLIKE how it was when the MMO market was respectively smaller.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I can tell Vegetto has been around as long as I have with MMOs
Heck, I even know some generally casual players whom have the same mindset, and don't bother with a game if they don't see longevitiy to them.
I think it's just a progression of maturity. From the outside i may waste alot of my time, but i do value it. I can no longer do things for the sake of it anymore and i want to see something from any time i invest in something. Forums i get knowledge and opinion, work i get money and experience, games i should get just entertainment.
However, since MMORPGs came about and offered a virtual reward for my time spent, i now have that as the requirement. The issue with modern games is that this bar is set very low and i am given a very linear and obvious time sink. I want a virtual world to escape the drudgery of the real one and with that, i value social interactivity, self-development and achievement. None of these are apparent in the current crop of MMOs, where you have barely any social tools, your self-development is getting slightly better gear stats and you achievement is getting that gear...just like everyone else.
In the older class of MMOs, people would recognise you, by name, you would bump into people at social hubs, chat, quest, then fend off enemies invading your town. You would have a friendslist of the best crafters, bookmark waypoints for good resources you have just found, plan social events, hunt for rare animals for that special crafting component, ride off into unknown areas and come across something you didn't know existed. You had a house, you had a town where everyone gathered, you had enemies to fight, you had a reputation to build. Now you are just a number.
This is why the sandbox vs. themepark argument persists, as you can only go on the rides for so long, until eventually you want to be given a choice and make your own activities. Alas, the sheep race is very much vogue these days, the innovators and risk takers have been sent off into the sunset and shot.
I hold out hope for Secret World offering a truly different experience (depending just how on rails it is) and i am holding out judgement as so little info is given on it. But i think the holy grail still remains ArcheAge.
Couldnt agree with you more. TERA is another game in a long line of Over - Hyped MMO's that promise alot but offer nothing truely substantive over whats being played right now, or for that matter 7 years ago.
I'll be passing on yet another failed game (one that cant even do well in its home country lol) and wiating on something truely game changing, innovative and fresh like TSW or GW2.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Do I taste a hint of SWG Pre-CU in that post :P?
Also, as for SecretWorld I'm not holding my breath until I get my hands on that one either for Closed or Open Beta. Their developer has been proven in the past to not care one single bit about the quality of their product, or the longevity that it should require. Not to mention the CONSTANT lies on the Business side of things in order to "trick" you into buying a box for launch just to find out you were hornswaggled.
As for ArcheAge I've still got it on my radar, but ever since I hear it was a "Hybrid" of Themepark & Sandbox I've become weary. Admittedly, their Naval Combat looks very fun
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
That's what gets me about TERA. It failed REALLY hardcore in Korea, and now is being re-released with all the content with more tacked on for the Western released. It's almost like the developers used their own people as a "paid tester" base in order to TEST their product & get much needed revenue to continue the product.
With that said, I STILL do plan to try US CB2 for their PvP server, however as it stands right now I'm not interested in TERA as a long-term product.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Have any of you ever stopped to think that some people have never played WoW or any of those WoW Clones that you mentioned so the quest based gameplay of TERA is something new to them? Also have you ever stopped to think that some people acutally like the WoW type of gameplay that you dont like? If you dont like something why be upset at it when you simply dont have to play it or read about it? These threads are just so pointless and I dont see why the moderators let people make them every day.
1. Market would not exist without the players. 1st arguement is illogical.
There is a reason popular, successful things are copied - because they are popular and successful - players are the market. The market is the players.
Burn out due to repetition is a valid position to take, but you have to remember that most new products that deviate from the norms fail.
This is true in all business. Do a google search for why most new products fail. You'll find all kinds of research.
2. Short term thinking is a direct result of market factors. You can't change how you look at the market until the market changes. The market won't change until lightning strikes again. It's happened once or twice, but this genre is still very young.
3. Any attempt at arguing that cites xfire numbers has already failed.
4. Most players just want a good game. What do they get from WoW? Acheivement, progression, evolution, dynamic interaction. Same words, applied in a different way. Reason for success? All those "highly niche" things were problems - things that many, many people who didn't play MMOs said "we don't play because of X" and also the same things that active MMO players said "we don't like X in our game."
I wish I could go back in time and show people what kind of stuff people said about MMOs before WoW. Would be enlightening.
It's depressing we have to keep dealing with these people really. True words my friend.
I also agree that developers should start planning on large launch numbers, and small retention over time IF they only plan on getting a good inititial investment from their money.
Developers should STOP thinking so "short term" with regards to their product, and need to think LONG TERM goals in order to keep their product with the highest retention numbers it can withstand. This doesn't come with "Themepark" models, and only comes from "Sandbox" models as a Sandbox's endgame is a continuation of the game as a whole.
Exploration, achievement, progression, evolution, and dynamic interaction are "EndGame" for Sandboxes. EvE is a fine example of this development plan. Albeit EvE is still a HIGHLY "niche" product they've retained a very good subscriber base. Right now EvE is sitting at roughly 50,000 concurrent players online RIGHT NOW on ONE single "shard". Where as xFire has SWTOR around 7,982 right now. I'll admit xFire isn't the best "popularity" resource, but even multiplying that number by 3 doesn't put them near EvE right now. It simply means EvE has a more "active" subscriber base than SWTOR if anything.
However, I don't agree with the "Variety" difference from "back then" as opposed to now. People didn't think as MMOs being their own "genre" for video gaming back then. So MMOs had to compete with Non-MMO titles like Diablo2 etc. Nowadays MMOs almost have their own entirely unique fanbase that ONLY player MMOs as their "primary" source of entertainment for online gaming. Now I won't profess to know how influential games like Mass Effect 3 would have against WoW subscriber numbers, but at the end of the day no one cares about ME3 if they're an MMO player UNLIKE how it was when the MMO market was respectively smaller.
I just wanted to point out that there are people that like themepark style games and then there are people that like sandbox style games. You are never going to be able to make a game that appeals to both as each one has a completely different focus and target of people.
Also just to point it out there.. I care about ME3 and I've been playing MMO's since muds back in high school.
Gotta love how OP is completely ignoring my previous posts now, because he knows he has no counter.
I agree Tera isnt the be all end all. It has its faults, but it is a step in the right direction. It didn't fail in Korea... its not doin as well as AION, but it didn't fail. The main reason its not as popular over there is because there is no grind in the sense of L2 or AION.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Well... For all of you who are on a Crusade to Save all of the rest us from Ourselves, you may have good intentions, but don't you have something better to do with your time?? I speak only for myself, but I must say that this constant drum beat of doom and gloom, and warnings has grown OLD.
I play these games as a HOBBY. As time wasters/fillers in between the rest of the things I do in a typical day. All that I ask is that the game I'm playing be entertaining. I'm not at all adverse to spending money on my hobbies. The box cost and three or more months of subscription is the very least of my concern.
I do not regret in the least the money I spent on SWTOR (box and one month), because over all it was entertaining (until the various flaws added up to the point of ending my sub, after I had my trooper to level 50).
If that happens with TERA, then so be it. Given what I've seen so far, I doubt it will, but one never knows about these things.
But PLEASE, for the sake of the gracious Lord Piglet, enough of the warnings, and dire predictions of Doom...
