I think it's quite the contrary. I'd like to begin by trying to determine what the goal of raiding is first. If your ultimate goal is to get some phat lootz you may end up being disappointed. However if your goal is to fight epic and difficult encounters Gw2 has approched this in a completely different way. Why not start epic bosses at lvl 1? This is the idea that has been built into the entire PvE world from 1-80. From the human starter area (referred to many times before) to lvl 10-15 norn mountains quote from ign preview.
...The shaman does not hold back. He calls upon the power of a wintry elemental that surges into existence in midair, a collection of jagged ice spikes. Though they certainly look menacing, these spikes aren't just for show. They slam down into the ground, affecting wide patches of ground. Impact zones are highlighted with circles, and every player now needs to juggle the importance of hitting the shaman with attacks to cut away at his health bar and rolling out of the way.
...The resulting experience feels very much like the style of dungeon encounter you could only find in instanced content, a boss encounter that might take two hours to get to. Yet here it emerges at regular intervals, provides a challenge and worthwhile rewards, and invites all in the area to test their skill against it.
And on top of that the giant pirate ship, giant undead dragon, giant purple energy dragon. All this before hitting 80.
If this is the raid you are looking for then from what little we have seen there are going to be raids all over the world waiting for you to discover them. Just call them dynamic events okay? XD
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
im glad you wont play gw2, i dont want idiot gear grinders whining about raid content
You really don't understand. It isn't about the loot. There are a lot of people that do raids, and the loot isn't the reason for it. It is about the people you group with. It is about overcoming the challenge as a team. Did you even read my post or do you just spew your hateful gibberish towards anyone that questions a game's mechanic while they try to determine if it is for them?
This is the thing man, if you really are looking for challenging PvE encounters to engage in with friends, GW2 has that. It's just that Anet is doing it in a very different way from most MMOs over the last several years. I think it's a matter of just adjusting your definition of what you think 'challenging PvE content' is supposed to look like, to be completely honest. It isn't structured in a traditional raid configuration, it is an entirely new way to approach the same end result; Providing an engaging and challenging PvE experience that you can indulge in with friends and strangers alike. I believe that what I wrote in that last sentence, was the original intent of WoW, but over the years it just got convoluted and became more about getting the gear you needed for the NEXT raid in the iteration. I believe there is a place for gamers like yourself in GW2, the question is, are you willing to approach it with an open mind?
Its not organised, its every random player in the zone coming over to help and doing various objectives.
Not the same as organising a set raid roster of 10-40 players at 7pm for 4 nights a week to clear raid zones.
LOL, yep. Now you actually have to play without a pre written script to tell you where to stand.
I'm not one of the die hard raiding fans. I have raided in the past, at very organised levels / progression in EQ2 and WoW, and couldnt think of anything worse than doing it again. But thinking the dynamic events will require anything close to the coordination of raiding in other games is a bit silly. They are obviously designed for mass zergs where everyone gets to have fun and participate.
Much like GW1, the end game looks like it will be dominated by PvP... and its looking to be very awesome PvP with the realm battles (which also include PvE objectives). Which is why I am looking forward to the game. Hell, I still log into GW1 for my PvP fix since most MMOs are rubbish at PvP.
The PvE side is looking pretty light like in GW1. Theres a few tough dungoeons to grind for appearance gear, but that will get old in a few months and you will just be left with the PvP players and uber casuals until the next expansion is released. I think ANet will be hard pressed to maintain exclusive PvE player interest without a gear grind.... but myself personally I am glad that there isnt one.
I just heard there is no raiding in this game? Is this true? I hope it's not true. I've been looking forward to this game for awhile, and if there is no raiding, I will deffinetly not play. (I have a feeling some fanbois will flame this thread to hell and back).
No organised raids.
again did you guys see that video i linked .....
some have to fight the dragon
some have to man the cannons
some have to defend those using the cannons
some have to kill the undead
some have to kill the bone shields the dragon put up.
some have to kill the dragons tendrils (so they don't pull people on the cannons to the dragon)
some have to defend the giant lazer thing
but you're right no organized raids at all.
Its not organised, its every random player in the zone coming over to help and doing various objectives.
Not the same as organising a set raid roster of 10-40 players at 7pm for 4 nights a week to clear raid zones.
Sweet, do you want to get together for a competitive match of Outlook calendar at some point, I will let you have first meeting.
There won't be a typical gear treadmill kind of raiding in this game. But I've understood that there will be huge dynamic events with worldbosses that scale up if more players join. Up to numbers that are raidworthy. So this is the kind of 'boss raiding' I prefer. There is no lock out timer either. But to get one of the largest bosses to spawn, you probably have to trigger certain events first. I can't wait for this. These fights will be epic
I never cared for raiding in the traditional themepark sense, because of the boring mechanics surrounding it. Repeating raids as gear treadmill, gear requirements for entry etc. I'm glad that Arenanet is not going to use these silly mechanics.
I am not saying that raiding is the only way, though i do prefer to do content with a group of people I know. I actually enjoy making friendships in games and this is often developed through the accomplishment of harder content together. I am just not sure that DE's will work this way. I am afraid it will be like a PUG. I hope the content is difficult enough that some coordination is required and it doesn't result in a spam fest that nearly always ends in a win for the players.
What if you met new people you liked while doing this type of content? Maybe one group you followed was unable to complete the event but a second group of more skilled players arrives to save the day. You now know players with better skill and you didn't even have to try to look for a group or tick off some checklist of gear req. or fill out an application form. Already got a guild? No worries just join the new one too! Try to think of a new sense of freedom for grouping. When you really want to group with players simply call your guildies but if not maybe you'll scout some new talent in ad-hoc groups.
The large scale co-ordination may be more prominent in WvW, some PVE and to a lesser extent 5 man dungeons. The WvW co-ordination would have to be absolutely phenomenal for one person to handle it. There are some PvE encounters which do have a minimum player requirement (some events can only scale down so far) but you aren't locked out of it because you have 48/50 people. Co-ordinating 50 people is kinda difficult. Getting 24 people to get out of the fire was hard enough. Spam fest isn't really the fault of the player - it's the fault of simple combat design. If a monster does not spawn extra targets/objectives and all players are left with a single target then there is little else but spam fest. Gw2 seems to engage players on all areas of the battlefield from manning the guns and shooting down bonewalls to the people defending the supercannon. Dungeons might be the thing that tickles your fancy. Each dungeon has it's noob mode the first time through then what I think is 'sh*t just got real' mode after that. The latter mode allows you to go deeper into a dungeon and experience all the horrors of death, wiping and trying to figure out a new strategy all because you wanted to know what that growling was coming from the back of the cave.
edit - I have no idea where I read large scale co-ordination. I should sleep.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
No, it's not a giant DPS fest.
Yes, there will be coordination.
Even answering that favorably, I would not recommend this game to you if all you wish for is the raiding you have been accustomed to. No one can give you any details regarding the difficulty because no one has reached the pinnacle of GW2's end game. However, from the details that we have gathered from all the videos and announcements, I wold boldly say that this game is not for you. I wish I could make stuff up or come up with flowery words to entice you into thinking that there is "End Game Raiding" to convince you otherwise, but that would be plain lying.
I really wish it could have catered to you somewhat as you would be missing a.. (personal bias here) good game. By the strict wow-definition, it has no raiding. No. Don't expect it. Don't hope for it. You will never find it. Not here in this game. Not in beta. Not during launch.
With that, I hope you still keep your interest with the game.
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
No, it's not a giant DPS fest.
Yes, there will be coordination.
Even answering that favorably, I would not recommend this game to you if all you wish for is the raiding you have been accustomed to. No one can give you any details regarding the difficulty because no one has reached the pinnacle of GW2's end game. However, from the details that we have gathered from all the videos and announcements, I wold boldly say that this game is not for you. I wish I could make stuff up or come up with flowery words to entice you into thinking that there is "End Game Raiding" to convince you otherwise, but that would be plain lying.
I really wish it could have catered to you somewhat as you would be missing a.. (personal bias here) good game. By the strict wow-definition, it has no raiding. No. Don't expect it. Don't hope for it. You will never find it. Not here in this game. Not in beta. Not during launch.
With that, I hope you still keep your interest with the game.
I would like to play the game first and then make opinion about such things. All we got is gameplay footage from press. Got to play it and check it out for ourselves.
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
No, it's not a giant DPS fest.
Yes, there will be coordination.
Even answering that favorably, I would not recommend this game to you if all you wish for is the raiding you have been accustomed to. No one can give you any details regarding the difficulty because no one has reached the pinnacle of GW2's end game. However, from the details that we have gathered from all the videos and announcements, I wold boldly say that this game is not for you. I wish I could make stuff up or come up with flowery words to entice you into thinking that there is "End Game Raiding" to convince you otherwise, but that would be plain lying.
I really wish it could have catered to you somewhat as you would be missing a.. (personal bias here) good game. By the strict wow-definition, it has no raiding. No. Don't expect it. Don't hope for it. You will never find it. Not here in this game. Not in beta. Not during launch.
With that, I hope you still keep your interest with the game.
I am glad GW is coming out with no raiding, I am glad EvE is continuing along its path, I am even glad Mortal Online keeps going, I am glad run escape and Hello Kitty online are about. Each one is different to WoW and it's clones and allows everyone to find their place in the MMO world, if you want raid for gear mechanics, don't play GW2 or EvE, if you want to battle for territorial control don't play WoW or Hello Kitty online, if you want cutesy japanese fashion based MMO antics (I am guessing here) then dont play Mortal Online.
Find the game that fits you and enjoy, don't try to change all the others into one you want to play.
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
No, it's not a giant DPS fest.
Yes, there will be coordination.
I would like to play the game first and then make opinion about such things. All we got is gameplay footage from press. Got to play it and check it out for ourselves.
Yeah, it was just a play with words. The guy was asking for things no one really has a firm grasp on. I'm just saying that even if those two claims were true, I would still not recommend it to him. It would not satisfy him since he's looking for a different form of raiding.
I think it's quite the contrary. I'd like to begin by trying to determine what the goal of raiding is first. If your ultimate goal is to get some phat lootz you may end up being disappointed. However if your goal is to fight epic and difficult encounters Gw2 has approched this in a completely different way. Why not start epic bosses at lvl 1? This is the idea that has been built into the entire PvE world from 1-80. From the human starter area (referred to many times before) to lvl 10-15 norn mountains quote from ign preview.
...The shaman does not hold back. He calls upon the power of a wintry elemental that surges into existence in midair, a collection of jagged ice spikes. Though they certainly look menacing, these spikes aren't just for show. They slam down into the ground, affecting wide patches of ground. Impact zones are highlighted with circles, and every player now needs to juggle the importance of hitting the shaman with attacks to cut away at his health bar and rolling out of the way.
...The resulting experience feels very much like the style of dungeon encounter you could only find in instanced content, a boss encounter that might take two hours to get to. Yet here it emerges at regular intervals, provides a challenge and worthwhile rewards, and invites all in the area to test their skill against it.
And on top of that the giant pirate ship, giant undead dragon, giant purple energy dragon. All this before hitting 80.
If this is the raid you are looking for then from what little we have seen there are going to be raids all over the world waiting for you to discover them. Just call them dynamic events okay? XD
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
If i'm going to guess the player is going to be too busy in combat worrying about his own position to worry about other peoples positions. (while keeping in mind proximity to teammates, their abilities and aoe buffs and any potential danger) Each persons strategy could change according to what is happening in the field. If the warrior goes down you might need an ele to hold them off for a little bit. Although I would imagine after a bad wipe or something you'd try to figure out what went wrong/where to stand/what to avoid. The strategy becomes a very visual....uh...thing and begins to eliminate the need to tell people what to do as strategies will just start happening. I replied about the dps fest but in another comment here haha. Really have to play it out to know if a boss is a dps fest. From what we seen from Teq the Sunless - multi part battle, you might have to direct people to do something.
Short answer - Yes. dungeons will have hard content for the best of the best. Bosses (no idea how many or how for that matter) will have mechanics to stop you from dps festing them and make you think twice about charging in. Arenanet have stated previously that explorable dungeons (we can assume dungeon bosses) will not for the faint of heart.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
I am glad GW is coming out with no raiding, I am glad EvE is continuing along its path, I am even glad Mortal Online keeps going, I am glad run escape and Hello Kitty online are about. Each one is different to WoW and it's clones and allows everyone to find their place in the MMO world, if you want raid for gear mechanics, don't play GW2 or EvE, if you want to battle for territorial control don't play WoW or Hello Kitty online, if you want cutesy japanese fashion based MMO antics (I am guessing here) then dont play Mortal Online.
Find the game that fits you and enjoy, don't try to change all the others into one you want to play.
Nobody is trying to change your game at all. I was simply stating some concerns I have about the game in relation to me as I make up my mind about whether I will try the game or not. I (and many of my friends) am attempting to find a game that fits what I want in the limited time I have during the day that I can dedicate to this hobby. Raiding isn't all that important to me. It is the feel of the grouping experience. Like many older mmo gamers, I was a pnp gamer first. I enjoy working together and making strategies to overcome situations. Maybe you don't have the context for understanding this.....
I am glad GW is coming out with no raiding, I am glad EvE is continuing along its path, I am even glad Mortal Online keeps going, I am glad run escape and Hello Kitty online are about. Each one is different to WoW and it's clones and allows everyone to find their place in the MMO world, if you want raid for gear mechanics, don't play GW2 or EvE, if you want to battle for territorial control don't play WoW or Hello Kitty online, if you want cutesy japanese fashion based MMO antics (I am guessing here) then dont play Mortal Online.
Find the game that fits you and enjoy, don't try to change all the others into one you want to play.
Nobody is trying to change your game at all. I was simply stating some concerns I have about the game in relation to me as I make up my mind about whether I will try the game or not. I (and many of my friends) am attempting to find a game that fits what I want in the limited time I have during the day that I can dedicate to this hobby. Raiding isn't all that important to me. It is the feel of the grouping experience. Like many older mmo gamers, I was a pnp gamer first. I enjoy working together and making strategies to overcome situations. Maybe you don't have the context for understanding this.....
You don't know what my game is, it is not GW2 or any of the ones I mentioned above. Why would a game design that is not perfect for you be a "concern" at all, get over it and find a game for you.
I am currently playing the open beta of Traveller on iOS which as you are a PnP gamer, you might be aware of.
I am glad GW is coming out with no raiding, I am glad EvE is continuing along its path, I am even glad Mortal Online keeps going, I am glad run escape and Hello Kitty online are about. Each one is different to WoW and it's clones and allows everyone to find their place in the MMO world, if you want raid for gear mechanics, don't play GW2 or EvE, if you want to battle for territorial control don't play WoW or Hello Kitty online, if you want cutesy japanese fashion based MMO antics (I am guessing here) then dont play Mortal Online.
Find the game that fits you and enjoy, don't try to change all the others into one you want to play.
Nobody is trying to change your game at all. I was simply stating some concerns I have about the game in relation to me as I make up my mind about whether I will try the game or not. I (and many of my friends) am attempting to find a game that fits what I want in the limited time I have during the day that I can dedicate to this hobby. Raiding isn't all that important to me. It is the feel of the grouping experience. Like many older mmo gamers, I was a pnp gamer first. I enjoy working together and making strategies to overcome situations. Maybe you don't have the context for understanding this.....
You don't know what my game is, it is not GW2 or any of the ones I mentioned above. Why would a game design that is not perfect for you be a "concern" at all, get over it and find a game for you.
I am currently playing the open beta of Traveller on iOS which as you are a PnP gamer, you might be aware of.
Why would you be so rude? Of course it would be a concern for him, he's not trying to make some objective statement about the game but about how he would like the game. If he wants challenging group gameplay where you will need to think of tactics to make it work, then of course it matters if that is in GW2 or not.
There's a million and one mmos out there for raiders, driven by the raiding minority and with everything else pvp / crafting / world pve being relegated to an afterthought.
Well done arenanet for making a game for the rest of us.
I am glad GW is coming out with no raiding, I am glad EvE is continuing along its path, I am even glad Mortal Online keeps going, I am glad run escape and Hello Kitty online are about. Each one is different to WoW and it's clones and allows everyone to find their place in the MMO world, if you want raid for gear mechanics, don't play GW2 or EvE, if you want to battle for territorial control don't play WoW or Hello Kitty online, if you want cutesy japanese fashion based MMO antics (I am guessing here) then dont play Mortal Online.
Find the game that fits you and enjoy, don't try to change all the others into one you want to play.
Nobody is trying to change your game at all. I was simply stating some concerns I have about the game in relation to me as I make up my mind about whether I will try the game or not. I (and many of my friends) am attempting to find a game that fits what I want in the limited time I have during the day that I can dedicate to this hobby. Raiding isn't all that important to me. It is the feel of the grouping experience. Like many older mmo gamers, I was a pnp gamer first. I enjoy working together and making strategies to overcome situations. Maybe you don't have the context for understanding this.....
Well if you didn't play Guild Wars 1 it is hard to explain really. I can tell you one thing. During college (I went to a game development school where of course there was 1 girl in our graduating class and a bunch of nerdy guys) me and about 6 friends would play all kinds of games. We ran Shadowrun PnP regularly, we played Magic the Gathering, and we generally geekgasmed for the few years we were there.
Well Guild Wars 1 came out in the middle of it all and we all sat around at various places and played it lan like for endless hours. It was the best video game that we played over this period. I can't really describe it. It isn't like an MMO although GW2 is doing a lot to make it more MMO like. It was ridiculous fun though. The only other video game that came close to play time for us was imported Naruto on gamecube. We would have tournaments a few nights a week. Ah the good old days.
You don't have much to lose, just a box price, no sub. I can't recommend enough that you guys pick this up and play it together. You will find WAY more than the box price worth of fun. Just trust me.
'No Raids' in the traditional sense is one of the reasons I'm most excited about it.
There are so many games out there that offer that specific treadmill, it's nice to see game that's the same game the whole way through rather than turn in to another game completely at max level in which any activity worth doing requires spending time in rooms memorizing dance steps with a bunch of people I may not even enjoy spending time with. To me, that's just not an adventure, it's repetative and tedious.
Raids were fun when they were a rare and special occasion, but once they turned into the new primary means of content for max level people, it became just another grind. I've raided in top end guilds since EQ, and through others all the way up to Rift. Never once have I had as much fun in raids as I did with hard single group content.
None of us were raiding because raid content was more fun, it was simply where the best loot was and often the only way to progress in a game you enjoyed otherwise. If the best loot had been from super challenging single group content, we wouldn't have raided.
I've also always found more camaraderie amongst smaller groups taking on challenges than I have in big faceless masses of 20-72 people, and found it more rewarding when my personal contribution was more apparent than it would be in a giant army, even though i was generally main tank.
However, for those that like raiding, literally almost every MMO out there offers raiding. It's not like no ones catering to you, you have a TON of options, so don't worry too much. Variety and options are good things.
However, for those that like raiding, literally almost every MMO out there offers raiding. It's not like no ones catering to you, you have a TON of options, so don't worry too much. Variety and options are good things.
There are actually only 3-4 progression raiding games with supported content, EQ2, WoW and Rift. One probably should add ToR into that list but it reamins to be seen once they removed all the bugs if it will be anything but a watered down cheap version of real raiding. One might add LOTRO as well but I have never heard a good thing about LOTRo raiding. Not in the sense of actual progression raiding. There may be some games with mechnics that look liek raiding like AoC but raiding guilds will never go near anythinglike that because its not real raiding. To raid you need actual supportted well done content and actual real raiding guilds not kiddie guilds with no structure or discipline. Presently there are only 3 raiding games which top raiding guilds play. After that everything else is unsupported or a joke. Maybe ToR will join those ranks.
Progression raiding games are actually very rare and sadly a dying breed. EQ2 was the successor to EQ1, and Rift the spiritual successor to EQ2 with Hartsman leaving EQ2 to create Rift. EQ Next is the only raiding game on the horizon. Leaving very few options for raiders. EQ2 being F2P is likely not a long term option, many many raiders will never play WoW just out of principal and its likely not a long term option. ToR sems to be an easy mode game that offends most raiders. BW has not been endearing to raiding guilds. Rift right might be the only potential long term raiding option. But then again many raiders hate the themepark type content. Very few people have faith in SOE making a viable long term game in EQNext. The options are severely limited.
Difficult PvE content will consist of 5-man dungeons and elite events. The later can lead to large open world bosses such as the Shatterer and Tequatl the Sunless which you can fight with up to a hundred players. Look them up on youtube.
There is your answer, so YES, there are raids.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Difficult PvE content will consist of 5-man dungeons and elite events. The later can lead to large open world bosses such as the Shatterer and Tequatl the Sunless which you can fight with up to a hundred players. Look them up on youtube.
There is your answer, so YES, there are raids.
There is a differencre bwtween a mob that can be raidied and actual progresion raid system. When people speak of raids they mean progression raiding not a few zerg mobs that require no thought just a computer to suffer through the lag. Because a game has a few zerg mobs that are raidable does not mean it has progression raiding.
There is a differencre bwtween a mob that can be raidied and actual progresion raid system. When people speak of raids they mean progression raiding not a few zerg mobs that require no thought just a computer to suffer through the lag. Because a game has a few zerg mobs that are raidable does not mean it has progression raiding.
The progression aspect of raiding is only required for games that need to lock you into a subscription. Without that, raiding really doesn't have to be more than a large, epic fight with hundreds of people. Which is exactly what GW2 does.
Syncronzed dancing around boss abilites works with 5 man just as well as it does with 10. If you're into that sort of thing, you'll want to look into the dungeons in GW2.
Difficult PvE content will consist of 5-man dungeons and elite events. The later can lead to large open world bosses such as the Shatterer and Tequatl the Sunless which you can fight with up to a hundred players. Look them up on youtube.
There is your answer, so YES, there are raids.
There is a differencre bwtween a mob that can be raidied and actual progresion raid system. When people speak of raids they mean progression raiding not a few zerg mobs that require no thought just a computer to suffer through the lag. Because a game has a few zerg mobs that are raidable does not mean it has progression raiding.
When people (like the OP) say "Raids" i assume they mean "Raids", you assume they mean "progression raiding".
A raid is a PvE encounter designed to be killed by more than one group.
Whether raiding becomes "progression" is largely defined by the difficulty, the rewards and the population. If there are - let's say 10 - of these world mobs and they vary in difficulty, you can bet your ass that guilds will start tracking their progression on them, it's just human nature.
Before the age of instanced raid zones popularized by EQ2 and WoW, plenty of raid encounters were just massive HP (and special script) mobs that sat out in the open world and could be challenged by hordes of hundreds of players. It was still raiding.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Comments
Again it sounds great. My only question is if the encounter is a giant DPS fest where everyone only has to be conscious about there own movement or is there some real coordination required between players required?
This is the thing man, if you really are looking for challenging PvE encounters to engage in with friends, GW2 has that. It's just that Anet is doing it in a very different way from most MMOs over the last several years. I think it's a matter of just adjusting your definition of what you think 'challenging PvE content' is supposed to look like, to be completely honest. It isn't structured in a traditional raid configuration, it is an entirely new way to approach the same end result; Providing an engaging and challenging PvE experience that you can indulge in with friends and strangers alike. I believe that what I wrote in that last sentence, was the original intent of WoW, but over the years it just got convoluted and became more about getting the gear you needed for the NEXT raid in the iteration. I believe there is a place for gamers like yourself in GW2, the question is, are you willing to approach it with an open mind?
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
I'm not one of the die hard raiding fans. I have raided in the past, at very organised levels / progression in EQ2 and WoW, and couldnt think of anything worse than doing it again. But thinking the dynamic events will require anything close to the coordination of raiding in other games is a bit silly. They are obviously designed for mass zergs where everyone gets to have fun and participate.
Much like GW1, the end game looks like it will be dominated by PvP... and its looking to be very awesome PvP with the realm battles (which also include PvE objectives). Which is why I am looking forward to the game. Hell, I still log into GW1 for my PvP fix since most MMOs are rubbish at PvP.
The PvE side is looking pretty light like in GW1. Theres a few tough dungoeons to grind for appearance gear, but that will get old in a few months and you will just be left with the PvP players and uber casuals until the next expansion is released. I think ANet will be hard pressed to maintain exclusive PvE player interest without a gear grind.... but myself personally I am glad that there isnt one.
No organised raids.
again did you guys see that video i linked .....
some have to fight the dragon
some have to man the cannons
some have to defend those using the cannons
some have to kill the undead
some have to kill the bone shields the dragon put up.
some have to kill the dragons tendrils (so they don't pull people on the cannons to the dragon)
some have to defend the giant lazer thing
but you're right no organized raids at all.
Its not organised, its every random player in the zone coming over to help and doing various objectives.
Not the same as organising a set raid roster of 10-40 players at 7pm for 4 nights a week to clear raid zones.
Sweet, do you want to get together for a competitive match of Outlook calendar at some point, I will let you have first meeting.There won't be a typical gear treadmill kind of raiding in this game. But I've understood that there will be huge dynamic events with worldbosses that scale up if more players join. Up to numbers that are raidworthy. So this is the kind of 'boss raiding' I prefer. There is no lock out timer either. But to get one of the largest bosses to spawn, you probably have to trigger certain events first. I can't wait for this. These fights will be epic
I never cared for raiding in the traditional themepark sense, because of the boring mechanics surrounding it. Repeating raids as gear treadmill, gear requirements for entry etc. I'm glad that Arenanet is not going to use these silly mechanics.
What if you met new people you liked while doing this type of content? Maybe one group you followed was unable to complete the event but a second group of more skilled players arrives to save the day. You now know players with better skill and you didn't even have to try to look for a group or tick off some checklist of gear req. or fill out an application form. Already got a guild? No worries just join the new one too! Try to think of a new sense of freedom for grouping. When you really want to group with players simply call your guildies but if not maybe you'll scout some new talent in ad-hoc groups.
The large scale co-ordination may be more prominent in WvW, some PVE and to a lesser extent 5 man dungeons. The WvW co-ordination would have to be absolutely phenomenal for one person to handle it. There are some PvE encounters which do have a minimum player requirement (some events can only scale down so far) but you aren't locked out of it because you have 48/50 people. Co-ordinating 50 people is kinda difficult. Getting 24 people to get out of the fire was hard enough. Spam fest isn't really the fault of the player - it's the fault of simple combat design. If a monster does not spawn extra targets/objectives and all players are left with a single target then there is little else but spam fest. Gw2 seems to engage players on all areas of the battlefield from manning the guns and shooting down bonewalls to the people defending the supercannon. Dungeons might be the thing that tickles your fancy. Each dungeon has it's noob mode the first time through then what I think is 'sh*t just got real' mode after that. The latter mode allows you to go deeper into a dungeon and experience all the horrors of death, wiping and trying to figure out a new strategy all because you wanted to know what that growling was coming from the back of the cave.
edit - I have no idea where I read large scale co-ordination. I should sleep.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
No, it's not a giant DPS fest.
Yes, there will be coordination.
Even answering that favorably, I would not recommend this game to you if all you wish for is the raiding you have been accustomed to. No one can give you any details regarding the difficulty because no one has reached the pinnacle of GW2's end game. However, from the details that we have gathered from all the videos and announcements, I wold boldly say that this game is not for you. I wish I could make stuff up or come up with flowery words to entice you into thinking that there is "End Game Raiding" to convince you otherwise, but that would be plain lying.
I really wish it could have catered to you somewhat as you would be missing a.. (personal bias here) good game. By the strict wow-definition, it has no raiding. No. Don't expect it. Don't hope for it. You will never find it. Not here in this game. Not in beta. Not during launch.
With that, I hope you still keep your interest with the game.
I would like to play the game first and then make opinion about such things. All we got is gameplay footage from press. Got to play it and check it out for ourselves.
Well yeah, thats actually the point of GW2.
Actually, a "no mounts ?! " thread will have to come first before "no flying mounts?!"
Yeah, it was just a play with words. The guy was asking for things no one really has a firm grasp on. I'm just saying that even if those two claims were true, I would still not recommend it to him. It would not satisfy him since he's looking for a different form of raiding.
If i'm going to guess the player is going to be too busy in combat worrying about his own position to worry about other peoples positions. (while keeping in mind proximity to teammates, their abilities and aoe buffs and any potential danger) Each persons strategy could change according to what is happening in the field. If the warrior goes down you might need an ele to hold them off for a little bit. Although I would imagine after a bad wipe or something you'd try to figure out what went wrong/where to stand/what to avoid. The strategy becomes a very visual....uh...thing and begins to eliminate the need to tell people what to do as strategies will just start happening. I replied about the dps fest but in another comment here haha. Really have to play it out to know if a boss is a dps fest. From what we seen from Teq the Sunless - multi part battle, you might have to direct people to do something.
Short answer - Yes. dungeons will have hard content for the best of the best. Bosses (no idea how many or how for that matter) will have mechanics to stop you from dps festing them and make you think twice about charging in. Arenanet have stated previously that explorable dungeons (we can assume dungeon bosses) will not for the faint of heart.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Nobody is trying to change your game at all. I was simply stating some concerns I have about the game in relation to me as I make up my mind about whether I will try the game or not. I (and many of my friends) am attempting to find a game that fits what I want in the limited time I have during the day that I can dedicate to this hobby. Raiding isn't all that important to me. It is the feel of the grouping experience. Like many older mmo gamers, I was a pnp gamer first. I enjoy working together and making strategies to overcome situations. Maybe you don't have the context for understanding this.....
Nobody is trying to change your game at all. I was simply stating some concerns I have about the game in relation to me as I make up my mind about whether I will try the game or not. I (and many of my friends) am attempting to find a game that fits what I want in the limited time I have during the day that I can dedicate to this hobby. Raiding isn't all that important to me. It is the feel of the grouping experience. Like many older mmo gamers, I was a pnp gamer first. I enjoy working together and making strategies to overcome situations. Maybe you don't have the context for understanding this.....
You don't know what my game is, it is not GW2 or any of the ones I mentioned above. Why would a game design that is not perfect for you be a "concern" at all, get over it and find a game for you. I am currently playing the open beta of Traveller on iOS which as you are a PnP gamer, you might be aware of.Why would you be so rude? Of course it would be a concern for him, he's not trying to make some objective statement about the game but about how he would like the game. If he wants challenging group gameplay where you will need to think of tactics to make it work, then of course it matters if that is in GW2 or not.
Well done arenanet for making a game for the rest of us.
Well if you didn't play Guild Wars 1 it is hard to explain really. I can tell you one thing. During college (I went to a game development school where of course there was 1 girl in our graduating class and a bunch of nerdy guys) me and about 6 friends would play all kinds of games. We ran Shadowrun PnP regularly, we played Magic the Gathering, and we generally geekgasmed for the few years we were there.
Well Guild Wars 1 came out in the middle of it all and we all sat around at various places and played it lan like for endless hours. It was the best video game that we played over this period. I can't really describe it. It isn't like an MMO although GW2 is doing a lot to make it more MMO like. It was ridiculous fun though. The only other video game that came close to play time for us was imported Naruto on gamecube. We would have tournaments a few nights a week. Ah the good old days.
You don't have much to lose, just a box price, no sub. I can't recommend enough that you guys pick this up and play it together. You will find WAY more than the box price worth of fun. Just trust me.
'No Raids' in the traditional sense is one of the reasons I'm most excited about it.
There are so many games out there that offer that specific treadmill, it's nice to see game that's the same game the whole way through rather than turn in to another game completely at max level in which any activity worth doing requires spending time in rooms memorizing dance steps with a bunch of people I may not even enjoy spending time with. To me, that's just not an adventure, it's repetative and tedious.
Raids were fun when they were a rare and special occasion, but once they turned into the new primary means of content for max level people, it became just another grind. I've raided in top end guilds since EQ, and through others all the way up to Rift. Never once have I had as much fun in raids as I did with hard single group content.
None of us were raiding because raid content was more fun, it was simply where the best loot was and often the only way to progress in a game you enjoyed otherwise. If the best loot had been from super challenging single group content, we wouldn't have raided.
I've also always found more camaraderie amongst smaller groups taking on challenges than I have in big faceless masses of 20-72 people, and found it more rewarding when my personal contribution was more apparent than it would be in a giant army, even though i was generally main tank.
However, for those that like raiding, literally almost every MMO out there offers raiding. It's not like no ones catering to you, you have a TON of options, so don't worry too much. Variety and options are good things.
There are actually only 3-4 progression raiding games with supported content, EQ2, WoW and Rift. One probably should add ToR into that list but it reamins to be seen once they removed all the bugs if it will be anything but a watered down cheap version of real raiding. One might add LOTRO as well but I have never heard a good thing about LOTRo raiding. Not in the sense of actual progression raiding. There may be some games with mechnics that look liek raiding like AoC but raiding guilds will never go near anythinglike that because its not real raiding. To raid you need actual supportted well done content and actual real raiding guilds not kiddie guilds with no structure or discipline. Presently there are only 3 raiding games which top raiding guilds play. After that everything else is unsupported or a joke. Maybe ToR will join those ranks.
Progression raiding games are actually very rare and sadly a dying breed. EQ2 was the successor to EQ1, and Rift the spiritual successor to EQ2 with Hartsman leaving EQ2 to create Rift. EQ Next is the only raiding game on the horizon. Leaving very few options for raiders. EQ2 being F2P is likely not a long term option, many many raiders will never play WoW just out of principal and its likely not a long term option. ToR sems to be an easy mode game that offends most raiders. BW has not been endearing to raiding guilds. Rift right might be the only potential long term raiding option. But then again many raiders hate the themepark type content. Very few people have faith in SOE making a viable long term game in EQNext. The options are severely limited.
There is your answer, so YES, there are raids.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
There is a differencre bwtween a mob that can be raidied and actual progresion raid system. When people speak of raids they mean progression raiding not a few zerg mobs that require no thought just a computer to suffer through the lag. Because a game has a few zerg mobs that are raidable does not mean it has progression raiding.
The progression aspect of raiding is only required for games that need to lock you into a subscription. Without that, raiding really doesn't have to be more than a large, epic fight with hundreds of people. Which is exactly what GW2 does.
Syncronzed dancing around boss abilites works with 5 man just as well as it does with 10. If you're into that sort of thing, you'll want to look into the dungeons in GW2.
When people (like the OP) say "Raids" i assume they mean "Raids", you assume they mean "progression raiding".
A raid is a PvE encounter designed to be killed by more than one group.
Whether raiding becomes "progression" is largely defined by the difficulty, the rewards and the population. If there are - let's say 10 - of these world mobs and they vary in difficulty, you can bet your ass that guilds will start tracking their progression on them, it's just human nature.
Before the age of instanced raid zones popularized by EQ2 and WoW, plenty of raid encounters were just massive HP (and special script) mobs that sat out in the open world and could be challenged by hordes of hundreds of players. It was still raiding.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO